Men in Dresses

Reading through the posts lately I have seen a number of them the seem to highly disparage a "man in a dress." Jerry Springer has been mentioned as well as the hairy men in dresses featured on Myspace. I wrongly flamed on Joanie about this and may have done the same to another.

It's obvious to me that men wearing a miniskirt so they can more easily flash someone and that using womens clothing as a disguise in the commission of a crime do incredible amounts of damage to all of us.

I come from a nuclear and heavily computer involved background and tend to see things in a very is or is not sense in an arena that needs some fuzzy logic to it. I am a cross dresser or at least it's the closest label match I know of. I am a man even when I put on my favorite dress. The part I need the help of the ladies and gentlemen who frequent this board is in determining where the line is between that pantie stealing, bank robbing flasher hairy man in a dress and the reality of what I am which is a man in a dress.

I would like to believe I am on the positive side of the line and that I have something to offer. I am interested in all replies favorable or otherwise on this one.

well of you don't dress to do them things hun then there is YOUR line :)

Personally, I don't think it looks right when men wear dresses as men. It's like seeing women with little to no hair on. It just looks odd.

I don't even like to look at myself dressed in the mirror anymore until I got my wig on my head.

But that's just me and I hope I don't offend anyone.

If you dress as you do to be yourself and it makes you happy I can't see anything wrong with it :)

What is so ironic about all dressing is it has a purpose, the bad part is our purpose is not understood in soceity. We are the only species on this planet that wear gender assigned clothing.

So if you will , imagine a world, this world, of no clothing then where will we be?:daydreaming:

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

So if you will , imagine a world, this world, of no clothing then where will we be?:daydreaming:

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Naked and cold :sad:

I have met a couple of people who, like you, simply wore women's clothes but did not try to make themselves look more feminine.

They, and I suspect you too, struck me as amazingly brave, because it seems to me that it challenges everyone, including those of us who work hard to make ourselves look feminine because behind it all, we still wish to conform at some level.

So - power to you - and shame on those who judge you more harshly than they would wish to be judged themselves.

Good Luck.

You speak of a line. IS that real? "Line" suggests a sharp break or a clear distinction between two sides. Not only that, but I would suggest that the line is in different places for different people and in different cultures and social environments.

I guess the bottom line is that you are where you are and you see yourself where you do. If that is good for you, then be happy worry about other things.

BTW, I have a hard time looking at myself without the wig also. I wonder why that is.

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Originally Posted by deborah jane

Naked and cold :sad:

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LOL good answer , I wonder tho with no clothes would we still have a desire to wear wigs and make-up?

When I dress as a woman I dress all the way. When in male mode I am a male all the way. Two completely different feelings to me. Whatever makes you happy I can respect that.

jason thats how i do around my house. no wigs or very little makeup.just a skirt hose heels. its comfey. i think its ok for home relaxing.if it feels right just do it.p.s. nice legs.

Remember the three blind men and the elephant? It's all perspective. It is how you look at things and in this case how you were taught to look at things. With the exception of a bra (and some men need a bra too I suppose) most clothing really is a refection of how society has defined them. That is a learned response. Other things may be preferential like hirsuteness or pigmentation or how long legs are. Some argue that that is a survival mechanism, but in modern times being hairy isn't a real survival requirement unless you live above the arctic circle in a yurt. With modern conveniences then androgyny will become the "norm".

Men have ceded things to be feminine. It didn't seem to stop breeding when men wore "skirts" 300 years ago. Nor did women shun men in make-up 200 years ago. But with time and I will dare say masculine "pride" these things were let go and became female. Other things were put into that category as a way for males to keep others subjected (see riding a horse).

Unfortunately it is harder to "Unlearn" something than it is to learn it. The perspective that Jason refers to from other threads and some posts here are learned behaviors and reactions. A neonate will not cringe or shun a man in a skirt. But later when they are told all the bad things about some guy who decided to flash someone while wearing a skirt ( he would have found a way to do even without a skirt so don't blame the tool) then we are taught to avoid such people. It isn't new, it has been that way for generations. But if we work to dispel fallacies and unlearn what we have been taught (especially with our children...we have done a fairly good job I hope with race, creed, color religion recently) then we will be accepted more readily.

As I stated in the other thread. When the small number of "Bad" people get the most press, it is what people believe. Recently the Orcas have had the bad press. A man in a three piece suit on a park bench isn't a threat in most people's minds but he is more likely to be a predator than a man in a skirt. But who gets the big headline? The pointing out the sexual deviates on the web overwhelms the more common (I believe) transgender people like the ones here. But that is the press we get. Think back 25 years and what a gay man was portrayed as (and is often portrayed as now). Yet we know, in our minds and hearts that the majority of gay men don't look or act different than any other male. We know, in our hearts and minds, that a man in a skirt isn't any different than your neighbor, but we are told he is. I don't think that bad press is like the Hollywood people claim. "Just spell my name right", doesn't help us at all. It may be a fine line but we have to be out and representing that we are everyday people. But we don't want to be "in your face" about it either.

I think Jason is very brave to be who he is. With time, maybe it won't be a big deal in the community. It is a start, and I hope we all work toward that. The 60's wanted to be that. Where did the peace, love and acceptance people go? They all drive BMW's now and drink imported wines and wear the uniform they tried to reject. C'mon hippies, lets get back to where we once belonged

Jason: We all have our own set of dressing. Some like yourself only wear the dresses and other dress to the nines. There are many others in the middle. Whatever makes you happy is the right stage for you. As for panty stealing, most frats have had thier panty raids. The bank robbing think is just another disguise and not a CD thing. Be happy in who you are and let others be happy in themselves.

Live and let live I say. Being different doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just what it is ... different. That's what we as TG folk want the mass public to think about us isn't it? ... so why can't we be the same toward our own? :2c:

" Why would anyone want to appear as a homely female, when they could be a reasonably attractive male"?
I said that back in my "pre CDing" days! Now, I understand why, because I'm aware of the TG factor in folks! :o

However, like Miss Amy said above, I still DON"T LIKE the man-in-a-dress look for ME! If I'm going to dress, I want to see a completely fem image in my mirror! And, since I can't pass, I have NO desire to go out dressed! Cowardly? Of course!:sad:

I respect and admire that u have the guts to dress the way u do! I think u deserve an award for your bravery!:thumbsup:

Amy, Cathy and DocRobbySherry I fully understand that for most girls it's got to be all the way from the heels up to the wig and full makeup. For me the wig, forms and more makeup than lipstick and nail polish feel like I am hiding to meet the expectations of somebody else rather than a completion of me. Amy I took no offense at all, wouldn't be fair to when I asked for opinions. And DRS I wouldn't even think of calling you a coward.

As for bravery on my part thank you all for that. I do have to add in that there is a good stiff dose of flat out stubbornness in there too. I do appreciate the support in being simply me. Debra Lucy and Paula hit it on the head with that. It's as deeply rooted me as music is. Jamie I've looked at it as trying to integrate what I see as the better parts of both sides into the one me. Jennifer, thank you for the compliment, those are always nice to hear.

Sherri, since I got my degree online I missed out on a lot of the time honored frat traditions. :D
Rachel sometimes it seems easier to knock somebody else down than to find a way to stand with them.

Lorileah, I had to look up the elephant parable but it is a good one. I don't know that I'm one of those who needs a bra but they are like the sprinkles on top of the icing for the cake. "Man in electric pink shirt and nails buys girl scout cookies outside local grocery store" isn't going to sell many newspapers but it's a start.

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Originally Posted by Jason+

I am a man even when I put on my favorite dress. The part I need the help of the ladies and gentlemen who frequent this board is in determining where the line is between that pantie stealing, bank robbing flasher hairy man in a dress and the reality of what I am which is a man in a dress.

I would like to believe I am on the positive side of the line and that I have something to offer. I am interested in all replies favorable or otherwise on this one.

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It sounds to me like you are seeking identity and purpose. That's cool.

Here is the deal: the difference between "pantie stealing, bank robbing flasher" and the rest of us is a simple, one involving an easily to distinguish bright line. The "pantie stealing, bank robbing flasher" is a criminal, and is dressing in an attempt to further his criminal activity. Presuming that you are not dressing as a man in a dress in order to go out and commit (and to facilitate getting away with) crimes, then it is easy to exclude yourself from that group.

Cross-dressing is not a crime.

Now the more complicated issue (and the one you can only discern for yourself) is why it is that you do dress. There are a couple of common threads. There are those who dress in order to pass and be perceived as women, those who, like myself argue that we are women trapped in these horribly disfigured bodies. That doesn't sound like you. Be glad. There are those who dress up because they get turned on by it, there is a strong fetishistic component, and their dressing seems to be mostly confined to home. But that doesn't sound so much like you either. There are those who simply enjoy being the middle finger, who like to screw with societies conventions, those who enjoy the "gender-****" aspect of dressing. That could be you, though engineers tend to be guys who enjoy conforming (though I can see where existing in that environment might easily produce - or nurture - a rebellious streak).

But there are also a lot of folks who don't fall into any of the typical "camps" who dress for completely unique reasons. That could well be you too.

It sounds to me like the solution to your feelings at this point will involve some serious soul searching, and trying to answer the question "Why do I do this?"

The easiest way to do that (and no one is suggesting this is easy) is to be aware of your feelings in the moment. Sit and think back to the last time you were dressed, and explore your memory for your emotional states, and your thoughts - what were your feelings? What were they related to? What sorts of memories were you having? When was the first time you remember feeling exactly like that? Is there a body part (sexual or otherwise) that your feelings are centered around? What are these feelings trying to tell you? You can do this while you are dressed as well, and if you don't have luck doing it just remembering your last experience that might be necessary - but try hard to not get caught up in the dressing - and pay close attention to your feelings. It is easy to get overwhelmed. And this is of course only one method.

However you go about doing it, I think that once you find the purpose and source of your dressing, you will feel a lot better about it, and be in a good place to move on with other questions.

Remember, cross-dressing is not a crime.

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Originally Posted by MissAmy

I don't even like to look at myself dressed in the mirror anymore until I got my wig on my head.

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Me neither! And I don't dress when I have a beard! To me it's either all or none.

Looks good to me Hon.:thumbsup::)

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

Live and let live I say. Being different doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just what it is ... different. That's what we as TG folk want the mass public to think about us isn't it? ... so why can't we be the same toward our own? :2c:

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Well said and I totally agree. If someone can't accept a man wearing a dress, that's their problem isn't it? We're a support group here, we should support everyone, not just those who dress to the nines, go all the way etc etc.. Everyone here should be made to feel at home, not pushed out because some can't wrap their heads around the fact, that people aren't all the same.

There is a man who lives a few blocks from me who dresses in short skirts and tight tops. He is also bald and has a full beard and mustache yet he has had breast augmentation. I have to admit that he looks strange but he is also one of the nicest ppl i have ever met. Maybe we all just need to ook past the exterior and see the person inside.

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Originally Posted by Hope

It sounds to me like you are seeking identity and purpose. That's cool.

Cross-dressing is not a crime.

It sounds to me like the solution to your feelings at this point will involve some serious soul searching, and trying to answer the question "Why do I do this?"

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Hope,

I could still be looking for a purpose, the identity has fairly well set itself. Cross-dressing itself is not a crime at all, the "crime" I wondered if I had committed was in not going hardcore all the way, which to some is almost criminal and conveys a more negative image of us.

In 2001-2002 I spent a lot time researching why I am wired the way I am. The only answers that I've come up with are the look, feel and how I feel when I am dressed combined with the fact that sometimes it scratches and itch I can't other wise reach.

Hi Jason

Now in all honesty I'm not a fan of your look :o...i think you could look very convincing as a woman when i look at you.. (hey thats how i think!)

However, I totally applaud your choice in what you are doing, and how you are doing it.

You are very honest and open, and you are clearly at peace and how can anyone have a problem with that???

There is nothing for you to feel criminal about...

Just like "non-T" folks will never really "figure me out", i'm sure that many of us girls here that strive so hard for femininity will never really "figure you out"....and i think that its ok...we don't have to be the same....

You seem like you are doing really well, and by far that is the most important thing


Kate

Each must answer the question for him/herself.

I have worn outfits that made me look fairly passable. Some that didn't. Perhaps one recently that was better than I first thought. My last trip to Detroit, I was all dressed up even with make-up in the hotel room. Just didn't feel like eating dinner that way (I didn't FEEL passable). Removed make-up, forms and switched to a t-shirt. Left the jewelry on and headed to dinner. I have eaten there no problem several times fully dressed. It felt a little strange having a Necklace, bracelet and earrings with glass hearts on that way but, I like them and that made me feel good that night. If I am still making trips when the weather gets decent though, I will probably go all out with 4 inch heels though :D passable or not...:roflmao:

Jason,

I understand criminal with how you use it..Or I think I may.

Useing myself as an example to how I was raised, robbing banks,exposing yourself and crossdressing was wrong! Saying that .. It was just as bad or worse to friends, family and co workers to be a crossdresser than it would have been to be a bank robber or one who exposes themself.

I don't know maybe its the medicine I am on I have a bad cold..Hey I gave it a try...

I respect the fact that you are here and getting support and above that maybe you can also help by giving others support..

The gender lines of clothes are one of those rules I love to break. I often go about as a man in womens clothes. If iI like the look or am in the mood to just throw on a dress or skirt I do it. Sometimes I have on every thing male but feel the need to wear heels. We all have our different levels of desires at different times. I see nothing wrong with self expression.

I was with my Uncle a couple of weeks ago and he was saying that all of his Fem clothes were all outdated. My simple reply to him was. "It doesn't matter, It is what you feel most comfortable in" and I believe that apply to the whole package. If you want to just throw on a dress and the make you feel comfortable, then go for it.

Personally I have done just that for a long time. I now have a wig that needs styling and trimming. but once that is done, I will bet that I have it on most of the time.

Hi.
An other way to look at this is through my eyes . i m androgyn & i can see both parts to this .
For some of you , you are born totaly male & like the femm side, may be dressed to the nines . some just the clothes & not out in public . others still have that bearing of the male when out so as said dont pass , then others who need to go all out & be female .with s r s & all . or like our lady boys over in thailand . some & i would have to say its just wearing some clothes as said yet not look in any way female ,
we are all different . & even how we think . i have no problems as i have said i accept each one on the basis of being different .

For me i have both views & can see & know what its like from both sides , when you are in the middle & you know you cant be one or the other you , ether accept your self or you hate your self .
i accepted my self at 10 , 52 years ago . & i can live as to who i am, i am living as a woman & am accepted as one theres no pretence , i m not trying to be some thing that i m not .
Okay it may have been nice to have more female looks , its not going to happen , so its not a worry or concern as i said i dont have the looks ,

so what do i have is other attrbutes that come from inside of my self & that makes up for my other loses , thats how i get around my details , & allso how we are wired is a part of who we are ,

Basicly its self acceptance confidence & just getting on with our lifes & be who we are ,
I do . oh yes i still dought my self in many things & yes i have my down days . its just not all the time , So for me its that acceptance in our womens groups out & about & have a good time ,

...noeleena...
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Originally Posted by Jason+

Cross-dressing itself is not a crime at all, the "crime" I wondered if I had committed was in not going hardcore all the way, which to some is almost criminal and conveys a more negative image of us.

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Hi Jason,

There is no crime in what you are doing at all. The cross-dressing community covers a wide range of needs, motivations and expressions.

I have been out as a "man in a dress" and have even had some supportive comments from Genetic Girls whilst I have done that. My personal situation has moved on from there,but that is not to say that yours should or will.

If any of us here on cd.com have been less than accepting of you and of how you express yourself, then it is shame on us not on you. We, more than most, should know how to accept the other members of our community whoever they are.

If you are happy being a man wearing a dress, then that is what you should do and what we should support you to do.

Thank you for starting this thread and also for letting us see the photos.

Jason,

Obviously, I'm not against the idea of men wearing skirts and dresses as men, however since you are asking honestly about your look, I have to admit that even though it is of a similar philosophy to mine, i'm not a fan of it.

It's not the fact that you're wearing dresses and skirts a man that I don't like, it's that from an aesthetic standpoint I don't think the items you're wearing are flattering to your body. Skirted garments can look great on men and there are lots of historical examples to back that up, but many of the clothes made today for women are designed to highlight and play up the female shape in a way that looks odd on the male body. For folks that dress en femme, there are forms and padding to help adjust for this, but if you're trying to present as male, it can look awkward and bulky.

I struggled with this for a long time, and still have to do a lot of work to put together good looking "man in skirt" outfits, though I think I've been fairly successful with it. I've yet to really cross that bridge with dresses though. Typically women's tops and dresses don't work with my shoulders and lack of breasts. I found a shirt dress ad old navy last fall that almost worked but just didn't quite get there.

[SIZE="3"]If it feels good, Do it !
With me however, it is a case of "can't stand to wear male clothes anymore". Whether or not I am moustached at a given time, I stay mostly in dresses, skirts, lingerie, or obviously femme blouses at home with wig and usually eye makeup. But I am sort of a perfectionist, so I cannot stand to go out in public while moustached in those clothes and makeup (except for just cruising around at night or going to a drive-up ATM). Therefore I have to wear androgynous female clothes at those times. I still have two hurdles to get over with my wife; my right to keep my face clean-shaven at all times, and my right to go out fully dressed and made up as Michelle (in a remote city of course) whenever I want to. As to whether I will be successful in this, only time will tell ![/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Jason+

The part I need the help of the ladies and gentlemen who frequent this board is in determining where the line is between that pantie stealing, bank robbing flasher hairy man in a dress and the reality of what I am which is a man in a dress.
I would like to believe I am on the positive side of the line and that I have something to offer.

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[SIZE="2"]The line (or boundary) is that you, I assume, are a law-abiding citizen? Since you are here, you must have something positive to contribute. If you were stealing panties, flashing, or robbing banks (in drag), you wouldn’t have time for much else, would you? :heehee:

As far as being a hairy man in a dress is concerned, join the club. :eek: You use what you have and do what you can with it for the purposes of personal happiness (to each his or her own). I really don’t look too closely at my appearance, since I rarely come in contact with others. I’m only in competition with myself, you know! It’s enough for me to look down at my skirt, hosiery, and cute little shoes, all the while feeling the gentle hug of my femme undergarments. From what I feel and how I feel, I can fantasize about how I look and be happy, regardless of how I actually look…

Society expects weirdo transvestites, but look around -- you're among an iconoclastic group...:) [/SIZE]

Ill be simple and sweet. if it feel's right to you,then it's right. I think as long as your happy with your look then the girl's here will be happy for you :battingeyelashes:

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

Hi Jason

Now in all honesty I'm not a fan of your look :o...i think you could look very convincing as a woman when i look at you.. (hey thats how i think!)

just like "non-T" folks will never really "figure me out", i'm sure that many of us girls here that strive so hard for femininity will never really "figure you out"....and i think that its ok...we don't have to be the same....

You seem like you are doing really well, and by far that is the most important thing

Kate

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For convincing, I'll let you judge the magic photoshop and daily makeover came up with. The one on the left is prettier but the one on the right is really me. I do my best to understand other points to better understand my own.

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Originally Posted by JiveTurkeyOnRye

Jason,

Obviously, I'm not against the idea of men wearing skirts and dresses as men, however since you are asking honestly about your look, I have to admit that even though it is of a similar philosophy to mine, i'm not a fan of it.

It's not the fact that you're wearing dresses and skirts a man that I don't like, it's that from an aesthetic standpoint I don't think the items you're wearing are flattering to your body.

I've yet to really cross that bridge with dresses though. Typically women's tops and dresses don't work with my shoulders and lack of breasts. I found a shirt dress ad old navy last fall that almost worked but just didn't quite get there.

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If I liked forms it's true a lot of my clothes would fit better. It's one of things that stops me from buying clothes from crossdresser.com, their fashions are cut for men but made to accommodate at least a C cup. I share the same problem with shoulders, and for the rest of the body like me it's a work in progress. :D At the risk of throwing my own thread off topic there is a sampling of skirts too.

Hey Jason, it's a sailor thing you know, what ever makes your boat float.
I will admit, as a teenager there was a time I might have stolen a pantie or two, but I have never robbed a bank, and although I love a great little mini, I don't even take pictures in my undies, much less flash anyone.
I do go all out most days, makeup, wig, and prostheses. but sometimes it too much effort, and I find I can be just as happy throwing on a skirt and tee. What ever helps make the day a little brighter, can be good enough. With your background I would say just don't over think it, enjoy!
Tina
In all of this cold weather would a flasher really wear a mini? Seems like the shrinkage would make the whole thing anticlimactic.

I have a beard and mustache look like a man walk, talk like a man could in no way look like a woman and yet I love dressing up "For Me" I love my girl things. If it don't hurt any one go for it.
Oh yes I have long blond hair that most girls would kill for. Don't need a wig.
My girl friend loves every part of me to:hugs: