Your fault or hers?

Assuming your wife knows about your CDing how often to you talk about it?

Are your conversations casual, like it’s a not a big deal and may come up in general conversation? Or is it a serious WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT “IT” NOW, that requires deep breaths, lots of hugs, and maybe a few tears too?

And if you talk about it, does she bring it up or do you (or maybe both)?

To tie this all in to the title of my post: is your communication, or lack of same, your fault or hers?

I know, communication is a two way street: it takes two to talk. I’ll use my relationship as an example of what I mean. My wife knows about my CDing, but we don’t talk about it. I’ve been thinking about this as a “don’t ask, don’t tell” kind of relationship, but I’ve been wondering lately if I’ve misread the whole thing. I wonder if we don’t talk about it not because she is uncomfortable with the conversation, but because I am.

Does the habit of hiding our little hobby/secret become so ingrained in our minds and souls that we find it impossible to talk about it to people we are otherwise close to? I feel far freer sharing my feeling on this subject (albeit anonymously) on this forum, with a group of total strangers (but otherwise wonderful people :)!) than I do in my own home with the mother of my children. I would really love to be able to casually comment on women’s clothing or makeup and have a casual conversation with her about it.

On the other hand, I know she does not like my crossdressing. But sometimes I think she wants to say something to me, comment or even joke or tease me, but is afraid I’m going to be offended or uncomfortable.

The sad thing is that I probably would be uncomfortable. Its been a secret for so long it’s almost physically impossible to open my mouth and talk about it (but typing is easy… :D). I’ve never been a very talkative person to start with, so this becomes doubly difficult.

So, the verdict here (IMO) is that I think it’s my fault that we don’t talk about my crossdressing; and that it is something I really need to work on before it becomes a bigger problem.

Anyway, that's my thought for the week – thanks for listening! I’m curious how the rest of you communicate, or not, with your SOs. It would also be great to hear from some SOs and get their perspective too.
:hugs:

My SO and I have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. However, I don't think she will ever be comfortable talking with me and I think her discomfort makes me think that I will never fully dress in front of her. However, I do have red polish on my toes, my ears are pierced, I wear panties 24/7 and I sleep in women's pajamas so I can't complain too much!

My wife has become so accepting that the only conversation is usually when I tell her I would like to dress or dress and go out. She says OK and that is it. We may kid about it once in a while, but that is about it.

Debs and I talk period ............. we talk on a wide variety of things every day TGism is just one of those, we talk serious, joking a bit of both, we talk long and often, but we can also sit in companionable silence ........... we can also talk fast , angry and furious, but fortunately those days are fewer and fewer now, being together is so much easier for us than being apart, we never did the 300 miles apart very well after our first meeting :straightface:

Yes we do talk about it. My wife accepts my CDing 100% and as such I know that I can be open with her about the whole experience of my CDing, the good and bad in my history (which usually has her saying that she wishes she had known me tway back when), and about the way I feel right now.

To the point of the OP, its usually my fault if we don't talk about it, because I am a pretty shy person, and sometimes find it difficult to let someone into those special places in my heart. That's not really fair to her, because she is my best friend and my confidant. But it gets to this thing of "when will I say too much".

I guess I'm the type of person though who really wants to talk about it, but I always put other people's 'stuff' before mine.

I know that in the beginning, when we were on opposite coasts and we talked everyday on the phone, I so wanted to tell her about a new bra I bought, or how I love the feel of a pair of panties. I know that she sensed my hesitation and she told me that it was okay to talk about it. For the first time ever, someone was actually asking me how the clothes felt to me. Someone was really interested. Someone was asking me why I like certain styles, etc. That has made all the difference in the world, and let me know that I am in a safe place.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

Hi Mina,

I am very much in what appears to be your situation I think.

We have never discussed it. I have never raised it. When my SO has suggested something I have ignored it. She doesn't do it very often, and when it happens it is usually associated with a row about something else - it then gets thrown is a spear. I see it as an attack and... ignore it.

There are tell tell signs maybe that she is allowing me space to make it work for me, though I convince myself that I am making the most of "opportunities" that arise - there are always two ways of looking at things.

I was suprised the other day when I commented on a cardigan she has (I bought it for her years ago and it is a favourite of hers)... said how I really liked it. She asked if I wanted it for my birthday!

Yeah... okay... that was an opportunity! But I just said that I didn't think it would suit me and changed the subject...

So yes... I think you are hitting on something here that is important.

The big question is.. why don't I open up? Simple. I am scared of losing all the good stuff we have and have had if I have read it all wrong.

Your fault of hers? As Led Zepp said... nobody's fault but mine!

Kaz xx :hugs:

We talk about it as we would any other subject......For example last eveing after I lost a days worth of photos the conversation went like this:

Danielle: I think i'll quit CDing for the summer

Sweetie: Yeah Right

Danielle: No really I'm gonna pack my clothes away, grow a goatee, and be a "Macho Man" due for the summer

Sweetie: Yeah right!!

Danielle: YES RIGHT!!!

Sweetie: Don't try to act so Masculine darling, It's just not you style.

Danielle: Yes darling, can I get you anything before I wash the dishes?

It's just a part of our normal conversations brought up by both of us nothing extra or significant about it.

We just talk and CDing is part of that. It's completely part of our lives and we discuss threads on this forum, clothes, good days for dressing up, upcoming events, ebay habits and bursting wardrobes.

None of it is hidden (thank goodness) and therefore it's as much as our everyday conversation as what we might be having for supper. We talk about about all TG related issues; books, people, clothes, photographs, clothes, looks, shoes, transitioning (or not), clothes, sexuality... just about everything. There are no secrets.

I can't imagine how difficult it must be to not talk about it? In the beginning, when I first knew about it, it was difficult but that's because there were still secrets. On both sides. On mine because I'd found out he was a CDer before he told me and didn't know how to broach it with him. On his because he didn't want me to have it with both barrels!

As soon as we caught up and were both at the same level (and that's where loads of reading and discussing of the content really helped) of knowledge and information, communication became easy.

the most we talk about it is when i see a pair ofheels or a nice outfit and dont get it . she want to know why i didnt get it.

[SIZE=4]My wife has been so supportive of me it is frightening. Usually the conversation is about life, or when I got that red jacket. We talk about whatever is happening in our lives and go on with it. CDing does not have to be the "elephant" in the room that never gets talked about. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Since I dress virtually daily for work, we do have a different relationship and understanding of my love of the feminine. She realizes that I am much more feminine than male and I set my own level of involvement, which she understands.[/SIZE]

The common thread here in this thread (?), is really simple and as usual really sad. How could you or anyone else in the same spot be comfortable having open and easy conversation about anything CD when you know she's not accepting of it? And the fact that she does not bring it up jokingly or to tease is probably a good thing, or natural any how. Not being accepting of it leaves a very narrow window for levity.
On the other hand you read the posts from those lucky couples with the wonderful SOs (truly wonderful), and it is an everyday coversation between two spouses. I just don't see where you have any reason to feel guilty about not bringing it up. Unless she or the SOs in some of the other examples has made an attempt and you've ignored it out of fear, and i get that fear, it makes sense, but maybe that needs a little exploring. mj (Cassie)

We are still on a don't ask don't tell policy. She knows and understands that is something that will not go away and cannot be fixed. The counselor we met with confirmed that and helped us set some ground rules. ( I did keep it secret for 25yrs)

She will occaisionally make a comment negative in manner. I have been getting more careless now that she knows; leaving panties or pantyhose out or forgetting something in the laundry. The last couple of times, they just ended up in my clothes without comment. I guess I will consider that an improvement. The last time we discussed it I asked her to do more research and she wasn't interested.

As many have advised I am taking it slow, one small step at a time. I will continue to be patient. I will let her bring up any questions or comments, and not push the limits.

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On the other hand, I know she does not like my crossdressing. But sometimes I think she wants to say something to me, comment or even joke or tease me, but is afraid I’m going to be offended or uncomfortable.

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The sad thing is that I probably would be uncomfortable. Its been a secret for so long it’s almost physically impossible to open my mouth and talk about it (but typing is easy… ). I’ve never been a very talkative person to start with, so this becomes doubly difficult.

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It sounds like you both need to talk about it, But since you say you are not good at talking and never have, why not hand her a letter expressing your thoughts about how it bothers you and you feel she has something to say sometimes, but maybe is afraid to bring it up. Kind of like what you posted here. Tell her what you told us. Tel her you think you need to talk about it before it gets worse. Tell her by all means... that you love her, respect her and her limits, and do not want this or anything to ruin what you have. Tell her what she thinks and feels is very important to you. Show concern for her emotions. Don't make it all about you.

I am one of the fortunate ones; There is nothing I can't talk about with my SO. If something is bothering me, or bothering her, we talk about it. I have nothing to hide from her.
If you take this step, you might find she respects you more, loves you more for caring about what she feels and thinks.

Don't let this fester until it creates anger, hurt or even more distance between you.

Although my SO is 100% supportive, my crossdressing hasn't been something I've easily communicated about. Fortunately, we've overcome all the significant issues involved with it and talking about it has become much easier. Sometimes we joke about it, sometimes we have a serious talk about it.

My bride knows of my crossdressing and is supportive. If we talk about it, I'm the one bringing it up, not her. Why? Because she has other things on her mind. She is fighting cancer, has elderly parents and siblings who are also struggling one way or another. She is in love with all of our grandkids and worries about them constantly, wondering what she can do to improve their chances for success in life. She is planning a garden, planning to clean the basement and trying to keep in touch with family and friends on Facebook.

I'm the one who thinks about crossdressing half my waking hours. I'm the one planning trips so there may be a crossdress afternoon or evening in the works. I'm the one who can't seem to not shop or look for new cosmetics. Although she is supportive, there are many other, probably more important things for her to bring up in discussion. And honestly, I don't disagree.

However, when I bring it up she is willing to talk with me about whatever my concerns may be.

Peri and I talk a lot about this aspect of our lives since I came out to her. I don't think a day goes by that we don't discuss it.

Our conversations are growing more casual. Right after I came out everything was new to her and required more time and discussion. Now our conversations run the gambit from playful kidding, to fashion advice, to deep discussions about our future and our feelings.

I can guarantee you there has been buckets of tears, lots of hugs, bushels of kisses and now even a few playful giggles sprinkled in.

Its hard not to feel the need to hide it. Mina we have hid this for our entire life. We have been told its wrong; that we are flawed; that we are bad people and because of this we feel an innate need to hide it even though we know all those things we were taught are dead wrong. Peri is accepting beyond my wildest dreams, but I still feel the nagging little voice pushing me to hide this. I don't want to push the issue and overwhelm her. On the other hand I owe her nothing but honesty and that is how I am approaching this issue. Ultimate the only route to acceptance with your loved one is through honesty.

Put the ball in her court. Give her a hug and a kiss. Let her know that if she wants to talk about it it's ok to share. No matter what you must commit to listening and empathizing with her side no matter what she tells you. Be prepared to get the good, the bad, and the ugly. I would also recommend a marriage counselor. Peri and I are seeing one and she has been very helpful.

Hang in there girl. It sounds like you are really starting to look at this from her point of view and that is the first step to that open channel of communication. :hugs:

We found Tina together, and everything about Tina's progress and education has happened mutually. We talk about Tina all the time (and Tina and she talk about me, too!). Tina is simply a part of our existence just as naturally as any other part of our lives.

Is this terrific? Yes it is!!

tina

We talk about everything and that includes Nigella's tgism. We use each other as sounding boards and learn from each other.

If people don't at least try and talk then I'm afraid things will never get any better.

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Originally Posted by minalost

Assuming your wife knows about your CDing how often to you talk about it?

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We talk openly about it now. It's hard to say how often. We might go a week or so without a word said about CDing. Other times, we talk about it - in some form - daily.

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Are your conversations casual, like it’s a not a big deal and may come up in general conversation? Or is it a serious WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT “IT” NOW, that requires deep breaths, lots of hugs, and maybe a few tears too?

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For the most part, it just comes up in casual conversation.

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And if you talk about it, does she bring it up or do you (or maybe both)?

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I would say that I probably bring it up more than he does. He is getting more comfortable bringing it up though - which makes me very happy. :)

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To tie this all in to the title of my post: is your communication, or lack of same, your fault or hers?

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After I found out about my husband's CDing, we talked and he answered most of my questions the best he could. After that, anytime I'd try to bring it up, I was met with silence and moodiness. We were in a 'don't ask, don't tell' relationship for way too long. In a roundabout way - after 20 years - I let my husband know that he could include me in this part of his life or I was out all together. I would like to think that we're both at 'fault' for growing up and learning to communicate. :)

**Assuming your wife knows about your CDing how often to you talk about it?


Well, there's the thing. Whether she knows or not, you do. So, it's up to you to bring it up. Your issue - you're in charge. If you're not happy, do something about it.

As I have noted, in all my significant relationships this has come up and, if anything, the offers of help have eventually ALWAYS surpassed ALL my expectations. Nobody, by the way, ever had to ask me, "What's the matter?" nor have I had to "hint around" about anything:

"I'd like to talk to you about..."

When it comes to living with someone... There are bumps along the way in life, but "communicate" and and the road gets smoother - for everyone involved. Say nothing and the bumps get worse and nobody enjoys the ride of life as they could have.

To your question... Everyday, in any way we want to discuss it - just like everything else.

My TG issues are taken as a matter of fact more than something that is talked about , shopping is simply that "shopping" , the only issues that arises to talk about from my wife`s point of view is why don`t i dress more , from my wife`s point of view it is just simply a normal thing .

I have a hard bringing up CDing with my wife. I'm afraid that it will upset her, and I hate confrontations. It took many days of anxiety before I could ask her if she was okay with me taking ballet lessons, and many before before I asked if she was okay with me attending a TG conference last month. Once I worked up the courage, both conversations went really well, so I wished I hadn't stressed out so much.

On the other hand she will occasionally make little (good-natured) jokes about my CDing. However, as recently as two weeks ago she went off on me about how "this was not how she dreamed her life would be" and that she "still had trust issues since I didn't tell her before we married." The day after that fight we made up and things have returned to normal, or at least normal for us.

After eight years of marriage, and seven years of her knowing I'm a CDer, we're still trying to figure out how best to talk about this. The good news is we are talking, at least periodically.

When I was married my wives did not want to talk about it even though I did.

We talk often, long and hard, and by necessity. There seems to be a lot of guilt associated with it for me, which is something I'm trying to work through. The irony is that my SO is completely at ease with it. Even enjoys it. If we don't talk about it, though, I become fearful of what she is actually thinking. I'm well aware that this is my own psychological problem and I'm trying to work through it, but it is still difficult. Talking is the ONLY thing that can calm my neurotic tendencies, though. :)

A lot of people (smart people I believe) look at spouses as at-home-therapists. It works both ways. I help her with her issues, too. God knows there's a lot more to marriage than just talking, but it's a pretty significant one for me.

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Originally Posted by JamieG

After eight years of marriage, and seven years of her knowing I'm a CDer, we're still trying to figure out how best to talk about this. The good news is we are talking, at least periodically.

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Jamie would it help if she came here and joined the FAB section, where she could talk with other partners ?

We talk about it quite often, although I don't think any of it is forced with her. Just what comes up naturally. I sometimes wonder if I overdo it and she usually tells me that by wondering, I am then overdoing it. :heehee: But it is just another topic of conversation in our house.

If I bring it up she shuts down so I keep quite and keep the don't ask don't tell thing going.

I also struggle with guilt. Perhaps it comes from the social notion that "children are innocent," thus adults must be "guilty??" I think that after 30 plus years of hiding my CDing, it is difficult to suddenly feel OK with it.(in so far as society, including my own family is concerned) We all go through different phases as CDers and it took me awhile just to personally (internally) accept my own CDing. Now I am on the road to somehow bringing my wife to understand and hopefully accept it. The original question about communication is difficult because it is dependent on circumstance. I have felt the need to be more communicative lately with my wife but have (the guilt thing) that prevents me from direct conversation. I have been purposely looking at womens clothing, lingerie, and swimwear sites in front of her to provoke (mildly) conversation that I hope to then steer in the right direction. I hope that all of this leads to direct and open conversation in the future (regarding my CDing). The big issue I have is that I don't know if she is aware of the fact that we (as CDers) won't necessarily stop, and in fact, I would like to expand my CDing to be a much bigger part of my life. For sure this is difficult and exciting at the same time.

Communication? what's that?

She has been so negative about every aspect of this that I finally gave in and started growing my body hair back last weekend. I simply said "you win." And that is how I feel, I am growing it back just so that I won't have to listen to her complaints.

And who knows? Perhaps she might even touch me again in a month or two.

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Originally Posted by Sheila

Jamie would it help if she came here and joined the FAB section, where she could talk with other partners ?

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I have on occasion suggested that she check out the SO group here or elsewhere, but she's not interested. She has enough forums and blogs to keep track of as it is.

That will teach me to post something and then leave town for 3 days! I had a lot of reading to get caught up with everything that was said. Thanks to all of you that responded. As usual there was a huge range of responses that reflects the diversity of our community!

I'm truly jelious of you girls that have open and free communication with your SO on this topic. I also appricate the problems that the rest of us have. But I do agree that it is up to US, the crossdressers, to make sure the lines of communication on this topic remain open - if only to make sure our SOs know that we are willing to talk if they want to.

Thanks again!
:hugs: