Printable View
I was on the phone with my partner today and she was describing her husband in relation to her daughters dating. Any guy her daughters dated who were jocks would be made welcome by her husband. That's when she described him as a man's man. She doesn't know about my cd'ing and it got me thinking.
While the definition of this term can include a lot of variation, would your SO describe you as a man's man? Would their description of you change since they found about your cd'ing?
Good question!
Not sure whether I was a man's man. I definitely used to be a typical alpha male; successful exec, highly competitive, territorial, bossy, cocky, full of attitude, very materialistic, power-driven, perfectionist, demanding, unmerciful, you name it!
After I accepted my CDing and decided to share it with my SO, a lot of that behavior went away, because it was all fake in the first place. It was me trying to force myself into being somebody everyone else expected me to be, rather than simply being who I really am. Does it make sense?
So, I'd like to think my SO's description of me today would be different from before. One can always hope, right? ;)
Well my SO has only known me as a CDer so I am positive the description of me has always been the same,even before I met her I wouldn't have described me as a Mans man whatever that is,sure I like watching and playing Soccer,have a drink now and again,swear too much than necesary,IF that's what defines a Mans man??
But I have always cried at films,Liked being in female company,even when in Male mode things that I would think blow out of the water any chance of the label Man's man being attached to me
A mans-man...:thinking:..depends on how cute he is!!!:o LOL I used to be, rough-tuff and into almost anything but age and life's lessons has changed that alot!
When I crossdress I present as a man's man and the guys like me, but the women pick up on the girl in me and they love it. Can't fool those women....guys.....they buy into anything.
I went and asked my soon to be x-wife this question. The answer I got was mostly what I expected, but a little surprising.
Intially she thought I was a man's man when we were first married. Then over time she began to notice mannerisms which caused her to ask if I was gay. I had forgotten all about those questions of me being gay over the years so it was a little surprising to be reminded of that. When she elaborated about the mannerisms, most fit into the girly category. She said that the longer she saw those mannerisms the less she thought of me as a man's man.
So I guess it is true we can't hide ourselves forever.
I think I'm going down a path that has separated the genders more, not less, since Tina appeared on the scene. For all my life my gender personalities were mixed and even though there was, for sure, a fraction of the time that I was very much in male mode, there were times that were unsure and mixed.
Once Tina arrived and my wife and I started on the many discussions we've had about viewing life from the viewpoint of gender, I've been able to separate what I now know were times of mixing of my two genders. As time goes on, certain parts of my life have been placed squarely on Tina's shoulders. This has helped to define who she is, but it has also tended to polarize the "male self" more.
Now there are days when I'm clearly in male mode much more than I've ever been. I have control over mixing the genders if I wish, and then when it's time for Tina to arrive all that maleness goes away and it's time to be en femme.
Bottom line: As it's become clearer just who Tina is and how she has been a part of my life, it's also clarified the male side of me! This is a fascinating life, isn't it!
**Then over time she began to notice mannerisms which caused her to ask if I was gay.
Gay?
Again, there are many "types" of gay male, the most common type is a straight-looking and acting man who prefers their sexual relations to be with other men.
"Femme" gay man are anathema to the great majority of gay me. Who, when it comes down to it, are very likely to want to kick your ass if you offend them overly much by acting or implying there is any thing "femme" about be a gay man. If they liked "girly" stuff they'd be pursuing GGs, not other men, or, men who present as women. Duh.
Those who want to joke about this fact could say, "So, watch your ass either way!"
OK...
My SO seems to recognize my primary character traits no matter what outfit I wear. You change the clothes on the person, but you can't change the person in the cloths.
I'm a manly man, and, a womanly wo-man.
Basically the same person, either way... I realized that a long time ago and I don't confuse her by being confused myself. In addition, if I wanted to pursue a relationship with a man or a woman, I have no doubt I could do that as a man or a woman.
It's not about what you "present." It's about who you are. Clothes, make-up, sports jackets, shoes, etc. are just signs and decorations.
Whoever and whatever you present, you still have to walk the walk and talk the talk.
I think "gay" in the OP is, again, something of a shade of gay.
That's all.
I do not think that those who know me best would think of me as a man's man. There are times I cry - and that has always been the case. There are times that I'm soft and caring (considered a female trait - right?)
On the other side of things, there are times I have gotten aggressive, but then I'm not proud of being aggressive.
I like the female traits better than the male traits. I had never thought of things that way before.
I didn't when I first considered this question think that has anything to do with my crossdressing. But then maybe that's why I like to crossdress.
Thanks for the question.
As Gabi described I used to be "the boss", cocky, know it all, in charge and very MANLY. Now that my wife knows about my CD I have calmed down and gotten much softer, needier and open. I'm still the executive that gets things done, but softer. I have come to terms with myself and centered and accepted myself more. My wife would definitely not say I'm a mans man now! She thinks of me "in a dress" and "not normal".
Is part of this the sham of being macho to hide the softer side we may not have learned to deal with.
[SIZE="3"]I don't watch sports and yell at the TV. I'd rather play the sports.
I'd rather watch the history channel than most anything else, and I really like story tellers like on NPR.
I like guns, but neither Bambi nor any other living creature has anything to fear from me.
I like machines, and I consider craftsmanship an art form. I guess you could say I like internal and external combustion.
I like tools and we work well together.
I like to crossdress. So what is a manly man? [/SIZE]
According to my wife I'm not a manly man and she likes it that way so who am I to object. :D However she does like that I can fix things around the house such as plumbing and electrical problems and keep a decent firewood pile on hand for the winter months.
I think I grew up trying my best to be the man's man, but i don't think i pulled it off, at least not to those who really knew me.
I was cocky,demanding... i still ride my motorcycle, fish, golf, and boat. To my family, they never saw the girly side of me, [ i think it's denial] which is killing my mother and brother now..my sister has accepted me.
No, I don't know if i could say i ever really pulled it off although looking back, i really tried ..just a girly guy i guess.:doh:
:hugs:
Since most of the time her comments are.. "Your nails look like a girls". You sit like a girl". "You hold that like a girl".
So yeah... I'd say she thinks of me as a man's man!
Urban Dictionaries Definition of Man's Man:
Who is the Man's Man? He's the real class act. He always shaves and wears clothes that fit. He's worldly, educated, and a gentleman. He thinks that buttoned shirts are not just for special occasions and that newspapers have more than one section. While he is polite, he is not a pushover. He will swear when he needs to, but will try to control his temper. He can handle his liquor and keeps himself in shape. Most importantly, he will admit his faults and errors, because that is what real men do. He don't have to be gay or straight, black or white, Republic or Democrat, Athiest or Evangelical; he just does what ever he thinks makes himself a good person that he can be proud of. For these reasons, women want him and men want to be him.
I qualified more on the wimpy side of things long before I met my wife and shes never suggested she would even like something called a "man's man."
I have never been a man's man at all. Never been into all that macho alpha male stuff. I suppose that is why I have had many people ask me if I was too gay; I also seemed to get "you’re just too nice to have as a boyfriend".
So I’m more of a girly man :heehee: soon to be a girly girl :daydreaming:
Ohhh topical question in my life right now. I am going to ask Peri to post her feelings on this tonight.
Would I call myself a man's man? I can say without a doubt..MAYBE. :heehee: Trough out my life I have done a lot of silly things to try to prove my manhood. What male has not. I think it takes our female side to realize how silly those efforts are. I look back and realize that most of it was wasted effort. It was an effort pointed at trying to convince myself I was a manly man rather than convincing the world.
I have demonstrated that I can operate in the world of manly men with great success. 24 years plus immersed and highly Macho world of the military proves that. Even though I proved myself as GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip, Barbie lurks in the background. I have always been that person that cries at the simpliest things; weddings, cute puppies and those stupid sappy commercials on TV. Try explaining that in a day room when you are deployed halfway around the world watching the Superbowl with your battle buddies.
I think Peri sees me differently now that she knows. I see a happiness in her eyes when I walk in the door that I never saw before. I don't want to speak for her, but I know that there are some of the "manly" facades that I have been able to let down around her that I don't miss and I bet that she doesn't miss them either.
On the other hand I still feel like the protector and leaded of our household. I love holding my wife in my arms and carrying my kids upstairs to bed. I think that realization makes me more of a man than a muscle car or going to the bar with the boys could ever make me.
So I guess you could call me a manly woman or a womanly man. How bout GI Barbie with the Kung Fu grip?
Sounds like an Englishman to me... :battingeyelashes:Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDonni
I would have to give the Universal Answer - it depends.
It depends on who you ask. My wife? I don't know how she'd answer that at this point. I never tried to be a man's man. I always tried to be the best person I could be. Was I manly? Maybe not in the world's sense. It's hard to be macho when most of the women in the room outweigh you. :)
Did I compensate? Heck yeah! Skydiving, hang gliding, scuba, Kenpo, fast cars, ice climbing, dating models (or, as they are more commonly known, psychos), and much more. Still, I wasn't happy because I wasn't me.
However, like Suzanne, I feel that the traits that I've always had in me - the ones I tried to cover up with manly bluster - make me a better husband, a better father, a better man than any of the macho, manly, man's man types out there.
Kathi
I would have to say that in my daily life in male mode I am pretty manly. I weld and fabricate, I have a couple motorcycles and more guns than dresses. I shoot clays and hunt. I go fishing too. Its not that I'm trying to hide anything they are all just things that I love to do. And when the day is over I also love to get dolled up and put on pretty things. Its another hobby that makes me relax feel good and feel at peace.
As I have said many times, I told my late wife about my CD'ing before we married. So she knew about it for the almost 50 years we had together. I asked her on more than one occasion whether I was enough of a man for her. Her usual response was, " when I want you as a man, you certainly fill the bill! But you also make a pretty good girl when needed!"
Don't know if that makes me a manly man, but it sure worked for me for all that time!
A manly man hides his feelings because he is afraid what others will think. If I care for someone or appreciate something they have done I tell them.
A manly man hides his feelings from himself. He will feel certain emotions, and then deny to himself he felt them because "that is not manly." He will not allow himself to explore the inner most feelings within himself. I mentally put myself in another person’s shoes and honestly try to imagine what they are going through. To thine own self be true.
A manly man will not improve his appearance because it isn’t manly to do anything a woman does. He can have eyebrows like a camel, and will refuse to let the barber trim them. I try to maintain mine for personal appearance because I face these types of fears.
My SO knows I do not put on a front. She knows she can share her inner most secrets with me, and I will actually listen and respond with feelings. I will support her in the best way I can without worrying about losing my manly status. She also knows I trust her with my inner most secrets. We shop for cloths, makeup, jewelry, shoes, and just about any girly item girlfriends shop for together. She knows my emotional side like no one else ever has. She also knows me well enough to know that if any manly type task needs doing I can and will handle it.
I think most of us here are not manly men, we are much more.
I am such a manly man, I trod where others feared to tread.
I courted danger every step of the way.
I looked the beast right in the eye and said............."I do"
That's right, I'm the man who married......[SIZE="4"]Sheila :eek: :heehee:[/SIZE]
she said im effeminate, i do keep my hair long and from time to time let my nails grow. I do pluck my eyebrows too!
but i do extreme things once and a while coz im an adrenalin junky!
Yeah that's me alright! John Wayne and I are so much alike that everyone thinks he's my twin. This thread reminded me of a book that written in the 70's called Real Men Don't Eat Quiche. If you haven't read it, then go find a copy because it's hoot.Quote:
Are you a man's man?
So I asked my wife if she thought of me as a man's man. I almost detected a slight hesitation but she said definitely yes. Whew! Beneath this veneer of makeup, padding, and whatever else I throw into the mix, I'm just your everyday, garden variety kind of guy. OK, I heard that! Somebody out there is snickering!
Babette
Wifey says I'm a man's man all the time. She said it once when I was in a dress after killing a wasp in the house. Wasn't sure what to think! I can play on the John Deere, change the oil, hunt in the evening, and wear a dress at night. That's a good day!
I always wanted to be a WOMAN'S man!:D
What my girlfriends and ex would say? :straightface:
I've NO IDEA!:brolleyes:
I think I used to try but never felt right, or good, or worthy. Once I started to explore the best of me, I stopped those games. Guess what ladies, I'm happier and more successful in everything I do. Don't get me wrong, it isn't perfect yet but I feel good. I always envied the guy who seemed like he was in control. Now I get the joke. There's no limit on screwy lives. The way I see it, it's just another dumb label. By the way, LOL and OMG at the Post about marrying Sheila!
Shari
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberle
Certainly not an American. John Wayne comes to mind.
P.S. I'm not a man's man.
A man's man to me is, and as others have said, a man who is comfortable being a man without trying to over do it. Macho is the exact opposite. I like the dictionary description that Miss Donni mentioned.
I grew up in a manly type family, but none of us show it, it's just a part of us....outdoorsmen, hunting etc, etc. After i got my deer this past fall, and came home and got the bloody clothes off and showered and slipped into something more COMFORTABLE, the change of personality is amazing. But at the same time i have always been a softy inside, very emotional and naturally nurturing, my lady friends and sister-in-laws always tell me how easy i am to be around, and relate too. There are feminine type personality traits that have always been there. I know my exes would agree if asked.........but why on earth do that?
So i guess to answer the OP, if my female friends were told, they would probably think i didn't fit the type that would CD. mj (Cassie)
Oh yeah, last time I checked, men's men don't wear panties.
OMG! WHAT did you just say?
ROTFLMAO!!!!
The wife used to call me a manly man all the time, after catching me in panties and the such a couple times she now calls me a puss. Oh well I like being a well dressed puss.
It may very well be. Although I don't feel like I have changed much. I have been self employed since 1984. I will be self employed when I finally retire. I have been the very aggressive dominant male all of my life. So I don't really understand the mannerisms thingy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tora
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzanneBender
Oh I agree! Also what MissDonni said in post #16. A man's man is not the rude, macho, beer-guzzling stereotype. He knows what's important in life. Quiet. Well groomed. Self-effacing. His strength of character and positive outlook draws others to him. Strong arms. Broad shoulders. He smells good. lol.
imgonna go with what gabriella said on the first reply.id say that describes me too.im much calmer now that im out of the closet.
A man's man? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (choke) hee hee ha ho ha ha hee ho ho (gasp) huh wha. . . .
I don't think so. She thinks I'm a good man, father, grandfather, husband, and friend. She knows I do a lot of things that are traditionally "manly" but we both know there are women who do those things (and often do them better than me). But a man's man, no, heee heee (snort) ha, giggle.
She also knows that if we peal away the surface of jeans, hiking boots and wool shirt, she's likely to find a bra and panties. Not typical stuff at all, but thanks for asking.
Ex military and at one time maybe too macho, less and less with the passage of time thankfully. I actually prefer the comany of women.
My SO tells me she appreciates the benefits of having a 'girly' man.
Barbara
Growing up I was never into the manly man things like sports and gym. I went as far as getting back into to the band to avoid gym class. (Didn't hurt that they were forming a new percussion line either.) After the first terror stricken ride on the back of a friends motorcycle as a kid I was hooked. I've never been a dominant personality. If there is someone else to lead I tend to let them until I absolutely have to.
As for how my wife sees it, she said the fact that I can admit to liking to wear or do something feminine makes me more of a man but not the man's man. If being the man's man is more about character than wrapping as Miss Donni suggests then maybe there is hope for me yet.
[SIZE="2"]When I had a SO, she pointed out to everyone, especially her friends, that I was “different” from other males – this was before I told her I was a crossdresser. After that revelation, her description changed, or simply evaporated, probably because my admission caused her great disorientation (see the "Thoughtful passages on queer lifestyles" thread)…[/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAMichele
[SIZE="2"]You’re describing a gentleman, which may or may not be a synonym for “Man’s man,” depending on your own ideas of male-ness. To me, men who enjoy the company of men and are somewhat sophisticated may fit the definition, but true gentlemen are even more refined in terms of compassion and sensitivity. A man’s man is seldom self-effacing, IMHO, and they can be noisy on occasion, if only to better fit in with the company they associate with…:straightface:Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
For a good example of a “man’s man,” I immediately think of Ian Fleming’s James Bond, but he was (and is) a fictitious character. The fact that he uses and discards women like cigarettes is food for thought, wouldn’t you say? I’m talking about the original characterization of Bond, not the updated politically correct version of recent years. Refined, sophisticated, charming, but still a male animal…
I think of myself as a boy’s girl, or a man’s girl, one and the same, conjoined for your pleasure…:battingeyelashes:[/SIZE]
Frédérique, in my definition, a man's man would also be a gentleman. Chivalrous. Principled. Cultured. Strong. Charismatic. A man who makes the ladies swoon because of his love and respect for them and he rises above the pecking order in the male hierarchy by garnering respect and admiration from the other men as well.
And a man like Suzanne (in dad mode) carrying his sleeping child up to bed. Tender.
I've met burly, boisterous, macho males who would not impress me as being a man's man.
Not in the slightest. Although, for God only knows what reason, people seem to think I am lol. What could possibly give them that idea?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny Gurl
AMEN sister! you hit it on the head....so much more!:battingeyelashes:
I would rather be a man's woman