Admirers

We went along to a regular event last night - magic-theatre.co.uk - but found that it wasn't as good as it usually is. The reason (we think?) is because there were a lot of 'admirers' or 'tranny chasers' there.

I found myself questioning what it is about these individuals that I find... well, a bit creepy. For starters I think it's because everyone else makes a real effort and dresses up (and this particular 'do' is a real dress-up, anything goes type of event) but the admirers don't make any effort at all. I also find that they seem to 'letch' and drool a bit too much.

I just wondered what the general consensus is about 'admirers'? I'm usually very open-minded about most things but there's something about the lurking and letching that I find a bit... I don't know? I guess I'm questioning my own prejudices.

Thoughts welcome! :)

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.

I know what you mean Sarah, It's one of the reasons we don't go out much any more, we had a similar experience at the way out club, it didn't bother me too much but my wife found it too creepy, she won't go again and i respect that

Hi,
On an other forum tv chix, i did ?? this as at the time i had no idear who what they were , as i found out latter on . i heard about them & the comments were not nice , hence i backed away.

im a woman & im not interested in any details that they are about , & thats it .

Now there may be some nice men among them so i just leave it there .

...noeleena...

My opinion on admirers is overall..not a good one. But then again, maybe because I am not interested in men in anyway. I see them as predators simply looking for kinky sex. In many cases, the kind they don't get from their wives. But I suppose they are not much different then the crude predators that hit on GG's with the same mostly tacky approach. Many are bisexuals that somehow think that if they are with a cross dresser, that it is somehow OK to be bi since they see us as a woman with something extra.
Read Craig's list. You will see some that say they are straight, but looking for a CD/TV/ trans. And usually with very graphic details of exactly what they want to do to or with a T-girl. It's not pretty. I imagine there are exceptions. But for the most part I still view them as predators. But what do I know, Never been with one and never will.

[SIZE="3"]For the most part, like Brandy said, chasers are interested in only one thing. I get the feeling of being 'stalked', and I can relate to GG's when they are hit upon by similar individuals. For the most part, they are kind of creepy in the way they act. [/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Billie1

[SIZE="3"]For the most part, like Brandy said, chasers are interested in only one thing. I get the feeling of being 'stalked', and I can relate to GG's when they are hit upon by similar individuals. For the most part, they are kind of creepy in the way they act. [/SIZE]

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Billie, what you say is so true,it would be like a typical bar scene at the jersey shore...lol typical guys looking to hook up....except we are a little more specialized i guess:doh: Of course that is the bad side, I am sure there are many admirers that are sincere. [ both male and female] i have been on a couple of chat sits where the admirers were totally respectful.

other wise, those of us gurls that are looking for men, would never find a man that they could have a lasting relationship with...i know there has to be some with a "happily ever after" somewhere:battingeyelashes:

My problem with the majority of the "chasers" that I've seen is that they don't view the trans person as an individual but rather as some sort of ideal or concept. Case in point, even though I show my boy face in the vast, vast, majority of my pics, I still occasionally get friend requests or emails from guys on my CDing myspace page telling me how "sweet" a girl I am and how they'd love to treat me just like a lady. I even had a guy feminize my name once in an email "Ryana" when referring to me. As annoying as this is, it's no where near as bad as the old days before I was close to coming out, and my pics were of me dressed as a girl but with no face pics. The things these guys would suggest in the very FIRST email they'd send me... I couldn't believe their total lack of any smoothness or tact or anything. Even if I was into what they wanted, they were going about it in a horrible way.

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

Just getting drool on my pretty dress would creep me out!!

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

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I totally agree with Kaitlyn:thumbsup:

Well the last worry I have is someone stalking me :doh: I think they are in their own closet and don't want to admit they want a man, but instead they feel like it might be ok if they pretend to be attracted to a woman even if she has a penis. I hope someone understands where I am going with this. If you think I am confused think how the chasers must be :D

Sarah, when i first clicked on your OP i felt excited, thinking about the possibilty of meeting accepting and supportive GGs at an event, and the thought that there were places one could go where meeting real women existed. I guess i forget that admirers come in both sexes, and so i wonder, are there GGs out there that would attend an event, or go to a club with the intent of meeting a TG/CD.

Not trying to hijack your thread dear, it just got me to thinking? I've only been to the alternative nightclubs here a few times and never dressed, but observed the patrons who were and although i didn't see any of them being hit on by men, i've heard it is common. And they did appear to group up together and stay somewhat separated from the rest of the crowd, but i couldn't tell why.

They were having conversations with the real women and seemed to be treated kindly, and i can only assume that it was just talk and not an attempt to spend time together. So if anyone has any thoughts on whether there are GGs who frequent the clubs or events because they are interested in the TG/CDs out there i'd surely like to know? I guess i'd be really suprised to find that there is? mj (Cassie)

I have an analogy re the chasers. Let's see if this makes sense.

I have a lesbian friend at work that will sometimes refer to BBWs, big beautiful woman, which is a phrase I hate. It kinda doesn't sound so bad as each word...but the problem is the BBW-lovers, chubby chasers, who like a girl only or mainly because of her size (maybe there is a female equivalent but if so I have not heard of it).

Just like most of us (and by us, I mean humans), I want to be loved for WHO I am. And the people being discussed here maybe fall into that category, where it is just about a sexual fetish and nothing to do with caring for people as individuals.

Now the chubby chaser is gonna buy chocolates or whatever your favorite is and sabotage weight loss efforts out of their own selfish desire. And the guy that wants to mold you into his skinny ideal image is no good either.

So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals.
~

Hmm perfect timing on this thread I'd say. Are admirers creepy? Hard to say because the admiree seems to have some input into that as well. In fact, they would not remain an admiree unless they wanted to in my opinion. Maybe some needs are filled both ways. In any case I think it should be a requirement for said admirers to have run the gamut of the admirees before attempting to admire them . In other words, literally walk a mile(or more) in a CD's shoes before asking them out.:)

The majority of the admirers I've met give me the creeps. To the best of my memory, there were only two that didn't - one guy in Indianapolis and one guy in Southern California. With out exception, the rest of them I've met make me very uncomfortable.
I remember the first time I went out in the Boston area. I'd just had a makeover by Jamie Austin (before she went pro) and went with another Tgirl to Jacques. From the moment we entered, until the time we left, this one guy sat there and stared at me. He didn't smile, he didn't wink, he didn't say "hi" - he just sat there and stared for more than an hour. I just shivered just thinking about it. . .

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Originally Posted by Mea GG

. . . So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals. . .

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What an awesome post, and so right on all accounts. Most of us want to be loved for who we are, not what we are. My wife and I laugh every once in a while about ourselves. When we married, my wife was a tiny little thing that all of the boys (yes, including me) were drooling after. When we married, I was a soldier in the US Army, with the body and attitude that comes with that ultra macho profession. Now more than 20 years later, my wife weighs almost twice what I do, and she is stuck with a somewhat feminine guy who had gone to great lengths to get rid of all of his body fur. We are nothing like the people we were when we married but I still love and adore my wife, and am pretty sure she feels the same about me. I love HER, not her body . . .

I have something to offer on this subject stemming from the few times i have gone to metal concerts and gothic halloween balls, dressed half femme/half goth boy

OP:
I just wondered what the general consensus is about 'admirers'?

Admirers: These are really more often than not closeted cd's as well. Although some are just appreciative of us as we tend to fall in the "art" genre of dressing, being children of the night and embracing our love for taboo. And the looking (lurking), if that person doesnt say anything and is just looking, you have to remind yourself of the 2-3 hours you took to get rdy to get looked at, i mean its just silly to think i wont be looked at wearing combat boots and a fishnet top with my face painted like the crow...:battingeyelashes: But really if they just look,stare,gawk or lurk thats fine, enjoy the visual attention.

i guess as long as they are polite when they speak, arent completely obnoxious, and keep their hands to themselves then let them be them, as they are fine with who we are

I've only begun being out in public (such as bars & nightclubs) beyond support group meetings within the last three months, not counting halloween, and I'm kind of new at this, so bear with me here if I don't have as much insight.
I don't mind being admired & complimented, that's what makes being out & about fun. People are very prone to interact with you. I was at a LGBT nightspot recently, and was offered drinks about 4 times, but one guy was so persistent ( and also drunk as I could tell buy his slurring speech) that he followed me from the bar back to the table I was with other people. The place was packed and I had to listen to his drivel and constant compliments & drink offers, while waiting over 5 minutes for the bartender to serve me. He patted me on the shoulder once, and I could tell where this was going. That's when the red creep light went on in my head. Fortunately once he saw my company he dissapeared.

I would think that women have this exact problem, but I also agree with JiveTurkeyOnRye as being a "sort of ideal or concept" rather than an actual person, as if we are public exhibitionists looking for thrill, and they become thrilled themselves when they see me. Normally I would just tell them that I'm a lesbian when push comes to shove.

But I also find these stalker-type creeps perplexing because there doesn't appear to be any end goal that seems meaningful. :worried: There's more than just the booze talking.

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Originally Posted by Fab Karen

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.

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A gentleman is simply a patient wolf.

Ever notice how the seabirds tend to flock around schools of fish? It is easier when the prey is herded into a small area and events like you describe do that.

It comes from the misconception, and it doesn't just fit CDs but even GG's who take time to look good, that they only dress up or act like "that" to get a guy. And be honest here, a good many DQ's will take anything with XY chromosomes. I agree that there are far too many "tranny chasers" at these events and I will add that there are far too many trannys who use extra bait. All it takes is a couple of TGs whose sole purpose is to fulfill the "dream" of being all woman and having a man that when closing time comes even the dregs can get a hook up.

One thing about this site is that is a rarity. I am considered the classless dresser here and I really have a more club look when I go out. Once in a while we get a thread that has the "have you ever been with a man like a woman: threads but they are few here. In the real world I think it is far more common. It isn't unusual here in Denver to see TG's on the prowl for what you describe and that becomes the common perception. Most people here will agree that what "we" do isn't a sexual fetish (even if it started out that way)

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Originally Posted by Fab Karen

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.

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I agree with Karen here. I'll be honest and say I've not had "that" much interaction with admirers, but with the ones I have met in person, were super nice to me and perfect gentlemen and I didn't feel like I was being "preyed upon". :2c:

I think it would be helpful on this thread if the posters identified themselves as to their own sexual orientation. I'm not sure that a person who identifies as a hetero crossdresser is an unbiased observer, since by definition wouldn't they think sex with any man was creepy?

Also, are we calling every man who enjoys the company of a Trans-girl an Admirer, or just the guys who show up for the Girls Nights Out with their macho pride sticking out in front of them? There are plenty of nice guys out there who admit they are Bi- and who are enjoyable company for bi-sexual or gay crossdressers. Many of them wouldn't be caught dead at a staged event.

Personally, I identify myself as an omnisexual, and I pretty much stay out of fetish bars nowadays. Not because of the Admirers, but because I think the whole experience is a too artificial. The Queens are there, the Admirers are there, the Hetero CD's and sometimes their GG wives and girlfriends, often ******* pro's showup in the bigger cities, there is usually a large contingent of uncertain lurkers, and there is always some sort of outrageous entertainment. It tends to wear on one after a while, not because the people are creepy but because of sensual overload.

If a person goes to a fetish bar, or a fetish event then why shouldn't you expect to find creepy people of all sorts of sexual orientations? And, let's face it, the overwhelming majority of the population which isn't GLBT pretty much thinks of ALL of us as creepy, too., even tho many crossdressers are just as homophobic as the general population. If you want to enjoy the sights at a fetish bar, don't go dressed, because then you are part of the sights, and fair game for the rest of the exhibitionists.

I'm fortunate because I've moved to New York, and there are friendly places to go which aren't fetish bars. When I lived in NE Ohio and western PA, there were only gay bars which have "Girls Nights Out." When the bar promotes the first or second Saturday of every month that way, you're going to have all sorts of Strange Ones show up, and don't be surprised if you're considered to be one of the Strange Ones.

Lots of response... thanks everyone for your input.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

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I agree. As I said, I'm a broadminded, free-thinking individual. I have no problem with any adult doing whatever it is that floats their boat. I wanted to question my own prejudice with this particular group.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

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I have no issue with anyone's sexual orientation. I noticed last night (and have noticed in the past) that this particular group of individuals don't seem to join in with the main throng. The event last night is billed as a sort of burlesque, dress to fulfill your own fantasy (as long as it doesn't involve nudity or cause offence) so the majority of people have great fun getting involved in fantasy burlesque dressing. The 'tranny chasers' don't. They come wearing anoraks and grubby sweaters and don't dance. They just (I'm aware this is a sweeping generalisation) seem to leer.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

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I had read that in 'Alice in Genderland'. So what?! Absolutely. I'm just making the comment and asking the question.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

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Oh dear. Sorry to hear that, stalking is indeed creepy.

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Originally Posted by Mea GG

Now the chubby chaser is gonna buy chocolates or whatever your favorite is and sabotage weight loss efforts out of their own selfish desire.
And the guy that wants to mold you into his skinny ideal image is no good either.

So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals.

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Yes this explains my issue. It's not the individual they're interested in, just the transness.

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Originally Posted by MissDonni

Admirers: These are really more often than not closeted cd's as well. Although some are just appreciative of us as we tend to fall in the "art" genre of dressing, being children of the night and embracing our love for taboo. And the looking (lurking), if that person doesnt say anything and is just looking, you have to remind yourself of the 2-3 hours you took to get rdy to get looked at, i mean its just silly to think i wont be looked at wearing combat boots and a fishnet top with my face painted like the crow...:battingeyelashes: But really if they just look,stare,gawk or lurk thats fine, enjoy the visual attention.

i guess as long as they are polite when they speak, arent completely obnoxious, and keep their hands to themselves then let them be them, as they are fine with who we are

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It's the lurking (not joining in) that I find difficult to accept. Great, by all means go along to an event where there are lots of gurls to admire, but can't they at least enter into the spirit of the evening. Last night was the first night that so many 'admirers' had been to this particular event and the general vibe was quite different to how it usually is. It's a night that originally attracted all ages, sexualities and genders and was (until last night) a really fun and friendly place to be.

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Originally Posted by JiveTurkeyOnRye

My problem with the majority of the "chasers" that I've seen is that they don't view the trans person as an individual but rather as some sort of ideal or concept. Case in point, even though I show my boy face in the vast, vast, majority of my pics, I still occasionally get friend requests or emails from guys on my CDing myspace page telling me how "sweet" a girl I am and how they'd love to treat me just like a lady. I even had a guy feminize my name once in an email "Ryana" when referring to me. As annoying as this is, it's no where near as bad as the old days before I was close to coming out, and my pics were of me dressed as a girl but with no face pics. The things these guys would suggest in the very FIRST email they'd send me... I couldn't believe their total lack of any smoothness or tact or anything. Even if I was into what they wanted, they were going about it in a horrible way.

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Exactly. These 'chaser's don't seem to be interested in or attracted to any one particular person - any transvestite/crossdresser/transexual will do. They're not fussy at all.

Last night a couple of CDers commented on it and said the same thing, "they're creepy" and "they're only after sex with a tranny". I maintain... they're just a bit... seedy.

Theres creepy in every group.I have met men at clubs who are generally nice and are pleasant to talk to. I have met others that give me the willies. I have met cds who give me the creeps-they seem to want to be more than friends and come on too strong. As mentioned a lot depends on your sexual interests. Im sure most straight cds will be creeped out by men hitting on them. It is a lesson to be learned though know some of us know how females feel like.

Yes I can relate to the creepy guy stories.

I used to go to fetish clubs about 10 years ago and I was occasionally felt up by guys. As a straight guy it kind of put me off. And I can see that a gay guy or woman gets the same from predatory men in general.

In saying that I am considering returning to the scene. I like the mixed environment, fetish women and I miss the company of sexual outsiders.

It probably depends on what I see in the mirror the next time I get dressed.

I don't mind admirers, I do expect they try to be presentable.

Gentleman in public, stud in the bedroom. If he can such such, I will be -
Lady in public, w**** in the bedroom.

I am not attracted to men per se but if a guy were to be at least presentable and have similar "intimate" interests, I would be all over it.

thnx sarah for your post...

i can't argue that some guys leer...and i would run from that guy...and i know some girls that would run to him...to each their own..

this is a terrific thread...i learned alot reading gea's post...

men are men...most men want sex..and they want it now.

the whole concept of being wanted for who you are in total vs. the concept of a "chaser (of BBW, CD, S&M etc)" wanting you only for that one specific thing makes it different, and i have to agree that it can be upsetting to folks...i never thought of it that way...thnx!!!

i kinda like the wolf in waiting....if he's for real and he's willing to wait a bit ...then i'm ok being a she-wolf :daydreaming:

I'm curious. What is the best way to deal with the undesirable sort? I have no problem with people of different sexual orientations or "kinks", though I am only attracted to women and am completely faithful to my wife. When I go out in public, which I haven't yet, I would like to know how to best handle the situation. I don't want to be unpleasant to the purely friendly people, so other than reverting to guy mode - which might tend to escalate things - what tips do people have? I imagine the GGs on the list are used to dealing with this and will have some valuable insights.

Thanks

Kara

Personally I think it's unfortunate many guys have made assumptions about who we are. If he's genuinely interested and attracted to who I actually am it's flattering, although I can't say I always return the interest.

Prejudices based on what people are ought to be questioned; prejudices based on how people behave seem appropriate to me. If a person a Muslim (and I am not), I don't have a problem. If the person behaves as a terrorist, I have a big problem. Actually, I don't think that this qualifies as prejudice anyway.
Drooling, letching, and other like behaviors do not appeal to me: they are creepy and icky. I don't feel any need to extend my own open-mindedness to accept creepy, icky behavior.

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Originally Posted by StarrOfDelite

I think it would be helpful on this thread if the posters identified themselves as to their own sexual orientation. I'm not sure that a person who identifies as a hetero crossdresser is an unbiased observer, since by definition wouldn't they think sex with any man was creepy?

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I agree. So the hets think it's creepy that there are men who like trannies? So what? I think it's creepy that a man would dress up like a french maid while loudly proclaiming that he is "all man". We're a creepy bunch folks. What we do is NOT normal as far as mainstream society is concerned. So save your sanctimonious attitudes for Sunday.

If you're a T-girl who enjoys the company of men than I've got news for ya; The Admirers are your only option. The average straight guy does not want to encounter your penis, no matter how hot you may be. Now before I get hammered, I said AVERAGE. I am willing to recognize those rare souls that are able to transcend the body for the sake of love, if you are willing to recognize that exception as a rarity.

There are perfectly good men out there who for whatever reason, prefer T-girls over real girls. Are they deeply closeted homosexuals? Are they frustrated trannies? Are they politicians?

They are just men who are attracted to what they are attracted to. Sure, some of them can be creepy but if I were being honest, I would have to say that there are more than a few gurls on this very site who creep me out as much or more than the creepiest "chaser" I've ever met. Some of you should read your posts a couple of times before you click Submit.

So the "admirers" are just objectifying me? So what? Women have been objectified sexually since the first other woman. If a man looks at me with desire does that mean there is something wrong with him? Excuse me? Am I not allowed to be desired?

The very idea that there is something wrong with a group of men who prefer T-girls is the reason they exist in the first place.

Okay, that's a little deep, but follow me; If the world were a more accepting place and people weren't held to such rigid sexual standards then there would be no need for labels. A man could date a TG or a GG and there would be no raised eyebrows. He's just a man who likes a certain look or type and that's the end of it. Imagine living in a world where you could just date someone who you found attractive and interesting, and the sexuality would be determined by that relationship, rather than by society. There would be no need for chasers in a world like that. :daydreaming:

Back to reality, and reality sucks, because any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labeled a "chaser" and by definition must be creepy and predatory. That's not fair and frankly some of you girls may need to take a broom to your own doorsteps before you start with the judging.

You know, as a group we are by and large just as intolerant as the straight world and I can't decide if that's disappointing or comforting.

-Misty

Any time Iv'e been confronted by an "Admirer" has not been the most Pleasurable of experiences,Usually first question is "are you wearing Stockings" and they get more leery from there on,Mind you after some Rather Industrial language (not ladylike I know) They are soon sent Packing,I know some will say they not all bad,but that aint my Impression of these Men,I am sure GGs prob feel the same when Leered at by Builders etc in the street.

Many admirers think that cause you dress up, you're gay and cruising for sex. Similar to women who wear short skirts, "she must want it, look how she's dressed".

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Originally Posted by KaraTV

I'm curious. What is the best way to deal with the undesirable sort? I have no problem with people of different sexual orientations or "kinks", though I am only attracted to women and am completely faithful to my wife. When I go out in public, which I haven't yet, I would like to know how to best handle the situation. I don't want to be unpleasant to the purely friendly people, so other than reverting to guy mode - which might tend to escalate things - what tips do people have? I imagine the GGs on the list are used to dealing with this and will have some valuable insights.

Thanks
Kara

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Just have to tell them sorry, not interested, and be determined about it. About the third time, you'll probably have to man up and say something like, back off jack. imo

Wow, what an interesting topic. Though my point of view is sort of from the admirers side!!! I do not chase or date tgirls, but I really admir all the effort you full time girls put in to looking good. If you are going to dress up and go out you are bound to attract some mens attention. What I do not understand, is why go to all the trouble, if you do not want anything to do with men. There are some creeps out there, no doubt about it. All I can say is just be careful, when you do go out.

That's why when I go out I usually go to a resturaunt or club that doesn't cater to any special group. There always seem to be admirers in those places. I get looks but usually no one gauking.

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

Just getting drool on my pretty dress would creep me out!!

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Didn't Monica Lewinski say something similar?
Sorry, but guess we all have our own likes and dislikes.
Rebecca

I'm not saying there's anything wrong in admiring per se. My SO also admires fabulous crossdressers, drag queens, transvestites and transexuals. In fact, spends quite a lot of time paying homage to the fifties girls from the Finnochio era!

What I don't like is that they swamp a venue, don't join in, look sweaty and slimy and lurk at the edges of the action with their eyes on stalks and dribble coming out of the corners of their mouths.

If an admirer wanted to impress a gurl all he would have to do is scrub up well, put on a suitably gentlemanly type of outfit (something that might complement a burlesque ensemble) and ask one of them to dance!

It seems they make absolutely zero effort but are still guaranteed a good end to the evening. Can't they at least be encouraged to work a bit harder for the end result?!

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Originally Posted by Sarah_GG

I found myself questioning what it is about these individuals that I find... well, a bit creepy. For starters I think it's because everyone else makes a real effort and dresses up, but the admirers don't make any effort at all. I also find that they seem to 'letch' and drool a bit too much.

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I think admirers are behaving the way many straight men would behave if GG's were as desperate for sexplay as many T-girls in the clubs are. Basically, women keep men somewhat in line.

When you see a line of letchering, silent, leering "chasers" at a T club, you're getting a glimpse of the brave new world that could be -- but for the fact that women simply don't put up with that kind of behavior in general. They would complain to the management, or would simply stop coming.

I started going out to T-clubs (the late Queen Mary in LA), and now I go to straight places. I've found the men who come over to chat or buy a drink to be similar whether they're chasers in a T-club, a straight guy who hasn't read me, or a guy in a straight club who has read me.

However, someone with T-girl experience will assume that we will be much more likely than a GG to hop into bed for a free drink -- something I obviously disabuse them of.

Also, in straight clubs there are plenty of guys who make no effort to dress up, and who take in the scene and check out the women -- but in a less creepy and rude way.

I have ran across some that were sweet and were genuinely looking to for a serious relationship with someone and it did not matter if they were GG or TG ...But that has been rare ...most of the "admires"...if you want to call them that have ran across have been wack jobs of the worst kind ... just wanting to do strange things to you ...or have you do it to them...in either case I want no part of it and i have gotten pretty good at backing them off without pissing them off too bad...I try to be careful because some of them are seriously out there and they could be dangerous if provoked ...

Joann

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Originally Posted by Crissy Kay

If you are going to dress up and go out you are bound to attract some mens attention.

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Agreed. Men are going to be attracted by anyone on the T spectrum. And actually I think not because its because they can pretend to be straight or gay. Men are attracted to Tgirls for their T ness.

While trans behavior is taboo I think their "creepiness" is because attraction to trans is also taboo so the social rules for dealing with it are unwritten.

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What I do not understand, is why go to all the trouble, if you do not want anything to do with men.

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I have a slight problem with this. For a start it implies that should any Tgirls appear in public they are really looking for attention from men. I think there are transgender lesbians who might question that.

Secondly its an issue of choice. "Why go to all the trouble, if you do not want anything to do with men" is what male predators say about women in short skirts. People of any sex and sexuality have the right to decline an offer and not be harassed.

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There are some creeps out there, no doubt about it. All I can say is just be careful, when you do go out.

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Agreed. In same ways thats the main issue.

What Misty said!!! I couldnt have put it better. I dont want to lump any group of people in the same boat. Its like saying all CD's are gay, all admirerers are creepy, all leperchauns are Irish. Some men at bars i have realized have a hard time talking to women, CD's etc. Heck when you are as intimidatingly beautiful as we all arel it can be tuff. I was once told by a friend that when they met me they thought I was initially stuck up. I was shy but they took my shyness as something else. Well maybe the men who just stare or look are shy too. It is tough for me but I am gradually accepting that when dressed a man may find me attractive. Thats a tough thing ladies and there are a lot of very lovely ladies here. Face up u may have to just uglify yourself if you wish to be let alone!

I agree with what Kaitlyn said and what Gina just mentioned about shyness. I think first we have several terms for men I (maybe women too looking for a FtM, not my area of expertise!), Admirer, Tranny Chaser, lecher, etc. I think that the term Admirer is correct for those people who are attracted to someone dressed as the opposite sex. A Tranny Chaser for me is less admirable from the nice human being viewpoint, while a lecher is just that regardless of who he/she is looking/leering at. I have talked to a few admirers and in reality, though they may appear to be lurking along the sidelines, they are just shy and nice people. If a Tgirl, or anyone for that matter, wants someone and is in the right venue, they do not have to wait for someone to walk up to them. They can approach them directly to check them out. Also, I think that Tgirls have some similar power as to a GG. if someone does approach them, they can always decline the invitation. And, finally, there are those Tranny Chasers and lechers out there, and like anywhere else, it is probably best to just ignore them. Oops, another finally! There are kinds of venues for going out as a Tperson, but in reality very few that give the Admirer and Chaser the opportunity to actually see several Tpeople all in one place.

[SIZE=4]The one that blew me away was a young guy that I had danced with several times one night, and at the end of the last dance he knelt in front of me and bowed his head to the floor.

If I had a sword I would have knighted him!

This guy couldn't have been over 25, I'm was 73 and he treated me like I was his age.
[/SIZE]

Admirers are like any other guy---as any GG will tell you some guys are just plain creepy--and some are quite nice--really depends on the individual--are most of them are looking to hook up some are just more subtle about it---but if you go to any straight singles bar, most of the guys there are looking to hook up--I think it has more to do with being male, than whether you like T-Girls or GGs

I dont know what all the fuss is about male admirers - yes i have met some creeps but i dare say they treat GG's the same way. I have also met some very kind and understanding men, one of whom impressed upon me that i was the same person whether i be in a business suit or a dress and who has since become a really good friend.
xx Michelle

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

So the "admirers" are just objectifying me? So what? Women have been objectified sexually since the first other woman. If a man looks at me with desire does that mean there is something wrong with him? Excuse me? Am I not allowed to be desired?

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What I don't understand, creepiness or non-creepiness aside, is if a TG is interested in men, presumably it is as a woman? In other words she wants to be wanted by a man who sees her as a woman (else why bother dressing)?

So why doesn't the fantasy fall apart when she also knows that the very reason an admirer wants her is because of her penis? In other words, he doesn't want to be with a woman, but with a guy in a dress. Else he'd be chasing GGs.

Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, but if I were in that CD's shoes I would find this discouraging. Just knowing what the admirer really wants would shatter my entire reasons for expressing myself as a woman.

Does anyone know if the admirers we're talking about are also interested in post-op TSs?

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Originally Posted by ReineD

So why doesn't the fantasy fall apart when she also knows that the very reason an admirer wants her is because of her penis? In other words, he doesn't want to be with a woman, but with a guy in a dress. Else he'd be chasing GGs.

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I'm probably about to be shot down in flames here... but frankly these guys couldn't get a GG and because they know the buttons to press to get a CDer - meaning that they're only interested in getting laid - because some CDers have this desperate urge to be 'treated like a lady' when dressed, they are sitting ducks for the admirers.

I'm sorry, as a collective bunch they are odd and creepy. They are only after sex and, as their social skills are non-existent, they don't have to make any effort to get it with some CDers. I'm not saying that's wrong - some CDers only want sex too, so it all fits and everyone's happy. But that attitude brings the general tone down to a seedy level that isn't appropriate for this type of night out. This particular venue is NOT a specifically tranny gig. The frequenters "are a pretty diverse bunch of all ages - straight, gay, trans, and everything in between. It's all very tongue-in-cheek, and no-one takes themselves too seriously..."

If this event becomes swamped with 'admirers' then I, for one, am not interested in going. There are plenty of exclusively trans clubs around that aren't particularly nice places to go to for that very reason.

Out in public, I get guys looking at me now and again and I'm fine with it. I'm sure most of them think I'm a GG and will just look, but will not nterfere.

However on one occasion, a taxi driver who realised I was TG, suggested he should come back to my hotel room for sex. It was as if because I was TG, I would welcome sex from any one who offered. Not nice.

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Originally Posted by Sarah_GG

because some CDers have this desperate urge to be 'treated like a lady' when dressed, they are sitting ducks for the admirers.

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Makes sense to me, after all what choice does a CD have if he wants to have that type of experience? It would be more risky to seek attention at a straight joint.

Also some CDs are quite happy with the fact that they are male so it is not an issue that the admirer is after them because they are hiding a penis under their skirt. They just want to feel desired and enjoy the ultimate scenario.

I think the ones who may find admirers creepy are either just expressing their heterosexuality or just don't like the attention.

T-clubs will always be pick-up joints and as more Tgirls come out of the woodwork I would expect this issue will only grow in size. If you are after something safe then normal venues would be a better choice especially for couples.

As far as my thoughts,Misty was right on! And I'll add that sometimes admirers have a fetish for some of "our look"[foundations,stockings,etc] that have gone by the wayside in the real GG world. So, we become a walking,talking ,model for them to enjoy.Something that is impossible in the real world. Enjoy the attention,it is only bad if you make it that way!:2c:

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Originally Posted by Satrana

T-clubs will always be pick-up joints and as more Tgirls come out of the woodwork I would expect this issue will only grow in size. If you are after something safe then normal venues would be a better choice especially for couples.

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Exactly. That's what I said. This venue isn't a specifically tranny night out. It's been set up as more of a dressing up and dancing night. The music is fabulous and many of the outfits amazing. The admirers just bring the tone down - they don't dress up, they don't dance and there's too many of them.

If anyone wants easy sex (and doesn't want to pay for it) there are plenty of joints geared to that end. But many of us don't.