the art of conversation, en femme

I have to admit, and I apologize in advance to those who I offend with this, but: I generally find women's conversation to be... dull. Dull and annoying.

Don't get me wrong - there are women I love talking to. My girlfriend, for one, keeps me on my intellectual toes. My sisters, and a few female friends. But when I hear a conversation amongst most women, my eyes tend to glaze over. They yak about clothing, recipes, shopping, and I don't know what all else. I've tuned them out by that point.

Do I have to talk like that in order to pass in public? Will people kind of cue in and say: "She seems... a bit off. She doesn't talk like a girl." Or am I over generalizing and a bit paranoid?

U may be over thinking things i'm not sure if most women would notice, i would just be myself no need to talk like someone else.

I'm surprised by your post. Do you really think women have to be more tolerant than men ? You wrote that you know women who don't have dull conversations for you. This may be a clue for you. Maybe women don't like the same things, don't react the same way.

But what you say reminds me about conversations between men about cars, soccer, money and work. I have the choice to wait, enduring this time as a punishment, or to try to get anything of interest about it. For example, I am not interested in surfing, but I admitted I admire how skilled surfers are. Putting feelings into sport conversations. I suppose the quality of the conversation depends on my involvement.

About passing in public, I suppose the more you will be yourself, the more you will pass well, as a woman or as a man.

I unfortunately find conversing with many males and females fairly dull and boring. When speaking to men who talk of sports, most are just fanboys who root for one team or player without the ability to appreciate the game. When speaking with women, many speak of expensive clothing which I don't get (your 90 dollar stillettos were made in sweatshops in Asia...just like the 10 dollar ones in walmart so you're simply paying 80 bucks more to pay for the brand name's marketing campaign...but I degress:heehee:). Frankly, many people obsess over very trivial things, while I obsess over society and politics. I guess I'm more of a Hilary Clinton girl than a Julia Roberts:battingeyelashes:

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Originally Posted by michellesworld

I unfortunately find conversing with many males and females fairly dull and boring. When speaking to men who talk of sports, most are just fanboys who root for one team or player without the ability to appreciate the game. When speaking with women, many speak of expensive clothing which I don't get (your 90 dollar stillettos were made in sweatshops in Asia...just like the 10 dollar ones in walmart so you're simply paying 80 bucks more to pay for the brand name's marketing campaign...but I degress:heehee:). Frankly, many people obsess over very trivial things, while I obsess over society and politics. I guess I'm more of a Hilary Clinton girl than a Julia Roberts:battingeyelashes:

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RIGHT ON MICHELLE!!!

I find most mens conversations to be boring and trivial. I would much rather be involved in a feminine conversation.

Danielle

You have company JC. I couldn't agree more.

You're best off hanging here or finding a support group with like minded guys, er, I mean girls.

Hey, exactly what are we anyway?

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Originally Posted by jcameron

I have to admit, and I apologize in advance to those who I offend with this, but: I generally find women's conversation to be... dull. Dull and annoying.

Don't get me wrong - there are women I love talking to. My girlfriend, for one, keeps me on my intellectual toes. My sisters, and a few female friends. But when I hear a conversation amongst most women, my eyes tend to glaze over. They yak about clothing, recipes, shopping, and I don't know what all else. I've tuned them out by that point.

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I think all you are seeing here is a difference of perspective. Most people talk of what interests them. Even when I was pretending to be a man, I would often discuss recipes - frequently with a male colleague who used to be a chef - because that was a subject I had in common with the person I was talking to.

Most men aren't interested in shopping or in clothes so they don't understand why we would be.

I think that the art of good conversation is to find some common ground between yourself and the other person, whether that be an in-depth critique of the theory of relativity or a discussion of how your favoured country got on in a recent international event of whatever nature.

Probably the reason your girlfriend keeps you on your intellectual toes is that she knows this is something you enjoy. Another (perhaps more banal) reason why you enjoy talking to her is because she is your girlfriend so you and she are interested in each other.

BTW, don't worry about it, many of us would find your preferred topics just as boring as you find ours - all it means is that we are not interested in the same things.

However, if you are going out en femme and can only talk about who made the latest home run, there could be some people who notice that you are different to them.

Hmm, talking is part of the art of being a woman--period.:heehee:

Hi .
& no offence taken,
as a woman i see things from a womens perspective . so in a nice way are you a male . if so then you wont be wired like i am . or as a woman .
Now that does not say i dont have the experance i do & was trained by some very good men just i never related to men .
Now can i talk about heavy machinery farm work building & many things men talk about .
Yes & proberly know to damm much for my own good . just not about how men think inside, like the morning tea room natter . youll all know what i mean the girl e pics & langage to suit . hey dont get me wrong females can do the same .

Im a woman & my women friends are not in to that, age wise 50 plus , & we are to busy going to outings getting ready & makeing clothes & other groups as well.

We have other interests that dont include men in the same way as us women . so yes you may not understand us with our shall i say it small talk .
I think we would bore you senceless. if its cars trucks what ever i can strip rework & do up moters g boxs & diffs & wireing paint as well & i know other women can & do. depends on what you trained in where you work & your interests lie . or hobbies

I dont know your back ground or age well im 63 & have learnt a few things & its a matter of or try to if you wont to be accepted by those people you are with then try & fit in you may not have it your way all the time & some times we need to learn that others have interests that they have had for years, & its normal part of life.

...noeleena..

The reason girl talk is so much more interesting and fun is that girls know how to have a conversation. They are conversant on a wider range of subjects than men. Men talk about 2 things, sports and naked women. And a woman's eyes will not glaze over but look directly into the eyes of their partners in conversation, no matter what the subject of the conversation.

I love the challenge of conversing as a woman when with women or dressed as a woman.

Fanci

This thread perked my interest immediately. From the very first week that Tina arrived in our lives, my wife has been patiently explaining the differences in the genders that we learn as we grow up. The Art of "chatting" is one we generally, as males, don't learn. Generally we talk in short bursts, want to get the details out of the way, solve the problem, and move on, no matter what the topic. Women, generally, actually learn how to discuss issues and topics. Granted that to men they seem to draw any triviality out forever, but that's only because they can, and men can't...generally.

The fact is that boring people have boring conversations, men or women, but the style of that conversation is generally different. I do think that there is a part of passing that involves understanding what it is like to grow up as a woman. Once we get the dressing and makeup under control, then the deportment, and then the voice, the next issue is what we do with those abilities, and the art of conversation is definitely one goal we all should think about.

I have to admit I've spent a lot of time listening to women recently, and it's clear I have a long way to go :)

tina

I'd concur with those who say that the quality of a conversation is a reflection of the intelligence of the people engaged in it, but sometimes all of us, regardless of our gender, enaged in entirely superficial conversation just to have something to talk about...I mean, who hasn't.

their conversation is what it is like if you want to transition, but as a cd'er the conversations are much different. But be warned they do still go back to shopping and where you got that outfit or shoes.

I agree with Danielle. Mens talk IMHO is loud, ignorant, & vulgar. I would rather to chatting withe females, rather than borish men. Sorry, that the way I feel. :battingeyelashes:

Women do have substantive conversations, but their woman-to-woman interactions are focused on personal relationships and feelings than current events. Their emotional lives are usually more important than sports.

Good to see I haven't offended too many folks here. ;)

I guess I was focussed so much on how women chat that I totally forgot how much typical guy conversations bore me, too. Sports? Spare me! Cars? To a point, but not a lot. Vulgar conversations about women? Well, got me there, but probably only because I was overcompensating or in denial. Apologies to womanity for that.

So it is a matter of perspective, in the end. I guess I was looking at it stereotypically, and also trying to see how I would fit in with the other half of the world's population.

Thank you, everyone, for your insights in this.

I have to say I agree with those who say it depends on the intelligence of the people involved.I must admit to enjoying conversations with men and women.Only tonight I was dressed and enjoying a chat with my wife and her friend and believe me they get near the knuckle with their conversations just like men do

IMO It's another case of best of both worlds for me,I can chat soccer with the rest of the guys for hours,although I do get tired of their vulgarity,and I try to turn a deaf ear to it.But am equally (and maybe more) at home with the girlie chat,and could talk for hours about clothing and makeup

:hugs:Sophie xx

having been an RN all my life I am much more comfortable talking with a group of women than with a group of men - I just feel like one of the girls I guess and that is a great feeling - smiles - Ellen

Hey, Jcam, maybe you don't have the "femme brain thing" going on?

Women like to connect and chat. The connection is the reward, not the topic of conversation, not winning, not showing off. There's more expressiveness, eye-contact, and gesturing, on average, than conversation between two men.

A women can talk to a new acquaintance for quite a while, and have no idea what the other does for a living, and not particularly care, either.

I've always enjoyed chatting with women, and I can chat man-style, too -- it's just different, not better or worse.

I find connecting with and making GG friends while en-femme more rewarding than going to a club or *gasp* even shopping!

When there are 4 of us out to dinner (2 and 2) I prefer talking to the women,
and as a mater of fact I do just that. Of course I try to include the other man who is invariably talking about how he build the wood shed, or something to that effect, and I could care less if he even HAS a wood shed. ha!ha

I do talk a little football, mainly college but some pro. If the ladies are talking about something intelligent like shoes, dresses or skirts, I do everything in my power to tune out the "sports" junk.

My wife does not know about me being a CD (not yet) but I will quite often suggest that we go to a couple of her favorite women's shops and look at clothes. I love it.

Just be yourself- that's basically why we all do this anyway, right? And some others who do this you'll have NOTHING in common with other than the CDing. That's fine, to each their own. Talk about getting a different makeup look or something. And some who do this (and people who'll hang out with you) will enjoy what you do beyond dressing up. Those are the ones that get the weekly call, those are the ones that you meet for coffee, whatever. This has little to with gender ID stuff and is just basic interpersonal dynamics.

I think allpf you are missing the point here. Women carry on conversations very differently than men. When men talk it is about sports or cars or one-up-man-ship. Women converse about a wide variety of subjects and always in a civilized maner. Being raised with 3 sisters and my mother, dad passed away when I was quite young, I learned the art of conversation from the women's perspective, perhaps that is why I always had difficulty relating to men on a male bonding level. I can remember many discussions when I was growing up on an intellectual level concerning politics or religion or other controversial subjects that were of different viewpoints yet always civilized not like men discuss such subjects. Personally I have always found conversing with women easier and more enjoyable than with men.

Hi; just listen and get all the tones and innuendos and maybe you could eventually participate. I would hope so?:):)Be still my heart.

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Originally Posted by Ms Deidre

I think allpf you are missing the point here. Women carry on conversations very differently than men. When men talk it is about sports or cars or one-up-man-ship. Women converse about a wide variety of subjects and always in a civilized maner. Being raised with 3 sisters and my mother, dad passed away when I was quite young, I learned the art of conversation from the women's perspective, perhaps that is why I always had difficulty relating to men on a male bonding level. I can remember many discussions when I was growing up on an intellectual level concerning politics or religion or other controversial subjects that were of different viewpoints yet always civilized not like men discuss such subjects. Personally I have always found conversing with women easier and more enjoyable than with men.

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Am I the only person in the world who can see women participating in the 'one-up-woman-ship' talk? A lot of women (not all!) seem to be obsessed with social status, and will even make fun of another woman who is not dressed 'fashionably'. In the dating scene, many women will not give some men the light of day due to their social situation and education. Of course, men do this too, but the men I know tend to not judge other males based on their social situation....

I find that given a choice, I will converse with females... I MUCH prefer it. Male conversation bores me.

Hmmm...maybe that's why I like going out with guys?

I could go either way. I think I enjoy the company of women more but really, sometimes Women don't like to talk about fun things like computers or motorcycles. And I'm way more fun than my wife so take that Cindy Lauper haha. I'm just being silly but yeah the conversations are a lot different when its woman to woman than man to man or even man to woman. Women talk about the kids and the house and shopping. I love to talk about my kids too but i like talking about computers too. Of course this is a generalization as I know women who are geeks like me.

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Originally Posted by michellesworld

Am I the only person in the world who can see women participating in the 'one-up-woman-ship' talk? A lot of women (not all!) seem to be obsessed with social status, and will even make fun of another woman who is not dressed 'fashionably'.

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We can always think of the exception that proves the rule. I too have known a few women who were more interested in social status than in relating to others - they don't seem to realise how ridiculous they make themselves look. Fortunately, in my experience they are a very small minority.

The vast majority that I have encountered in every country I have visited in the last 50 odd years are more interested in communicating in a civilised manner.