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[SIZE="4"]My spouse is against my CD and she offers this reason to get me to stop.
CD is a form of self indulgent behavior and the crave waxes and wanes with time. If we try to control the urge and prevent it to peak, one can control it. If we allow ourselves to indulge, It will turn into an addiction. Eventually, it will be CD 24/7, then TS and catastrophic changes will result.
I am unsure if that's valid.
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To some on the outside looking in, cding can appear as your spouse states it.
In reality every one of us is on a different path that takes a life time to walk and the end can't be seen form here.
Some will just CD, Some will discover they need to do more, and Some will discover they are TS
Indulging in cross dressing from time to time does not mean you are destined to go full time or transition, but one thing is sure - if you DON'T indulge in it, your wife is safe, and you certainly wont go full time.
I believe that your spouse is completely wrong. She assumes that your crossdressing is abnormal behavior. The short answer is that it is normal and not deviant. I suggest she read Miqqui Alicia Gilbert Phd of York University
Your spouse is completely ignorant. Sounds like the only hope for peace & possible acceptance is couples therapy- but you'll need to research for therapist who has knowledge of TG issues and not a random one who might agree with your spouse it's sick.
it's a fear based argument, by denying you the ability to CD, she's trying to keep things as she's always seen/expected, if she allows you to CD things MIGHT get out of hand or it might be limited to CD'ing.
let's put her argument in a different scenario, let's say she doesn't want you to eat cakes, because she's afraid you'll become overweight, and eventually a baker, but then again you might simply want a slice of cake... it's taking 1 thing and running it into an exaggeration...
some people just underdress, some people crossdress in the privacy of their homes, some CD 24/7, some find that they aren't happy as a man and go into a whole other area called TS.
For me I'd say that's not too far from the truth. It's not a craving, more like a spiteful reaction to my bad GG relationships. Like, okie doakie fc you then - I'll be my OWN girl! Doubt it's gonna become an addiction - too much inconvenience & time wasted. Serves a purpose fow now.Quote:
Originally Posted by linda.wai
Wow, after all of these years, finally the definitive explanation. If you believe that this is just an self indulgent behavior then by all means proceed according to your spouses expectations. As for me, I'll sirt here and wait for the catastrophic changes.
lind.wai, when my girlfriend (now my wife) found out about about my crossdressing there were a whole series of conversations about crossdressing. Of course the first question that got asked was if I was gay. I am not gay, but like all people with transgender issues there needs to be some conversations with yourself, your spouse or a therapist to help you figure out why you crossdress. Do you want to eventually transition to become a women? Or do you do it for stress relief or other reasons? The more you come to an understanding about why you crossdress the easier it will be to explain to your spouse your need for crossdressing and be able to put her mind more at ease.
Linda, I have been a CD for over 60 years! In your wife's statement I see only one truth. It does, or can, wax and wane. But I don't believe it is self indulgent behavior, or that it should become an addiction. Of course, those items are totally dependent on you, as the person affected! I completely stopped crossdressing twice in my life. Once when I entered military service for 4 years, and later in life after I was married. My late wife knew and approved of me being a CD, but I thopught it was best for our family if I stopped, so I did. About 5 years later my dear wife asked to start CD' again as she missed Stephanie!! So I did and still do! But I don't have to!! No one makes me dress enfemme! I do it simply because I like the fit, feel, and look of feminine clothing! I have no desire to be a woman, just like to dress like one!
In my experience, not endulging results in the peaks and valleys. You can only hold your breath for so long before you need to breath. The endulging is required for you to learn what it is you really need. If you are cut-off you will remain unenlightened. You both need to just accept it and enjoy it, you may learn that you are much happier as a result... and most people don't decide to change their bodies...well, maybe to loose wieght or get fit.
Nobody can say for sure what the future holds ,but one thing is for sure the " pink fog " does have a way of leading those down a selfish and un certain path . Do you or have you communicated and ensured your wife that you have peaked? It sounds to me as if your Cding has grown for you wife to express any concerns to you about it, has it? If so than you answered your own question?Quote:
Originally Posted by linda.wai
I don't personally think Cding grows I feel we take time reaching our peak level . Keep in mind every cder is different . The growing is expressing the desire to fully reach your peak be it through fully dressing , going out ,having sex while dressed or getting a bigger closet and dressing more often. To your wife that is growing and I think it's a fair statement.. So has your dressing habits changed?
So if one has an interest and spends all their time indulged in their interest then they are addicted to it catastophy results. Hmm remember that next time I mow the lawn and trim the hedges......every week. Maybe it could also be said for researching for education or business reasons. Yes it is self indulgent, you are applying make-up and dressing to yourself. Indulged in it? Maybe so, but they say practice makes perfect. Catastrophic results: for her maybe, for you freedom. Sorry but I do not agree completely with your wifes' ideas. Next time making love don't peak, control it and then see the look on her face.
well, i also indulge in my 1970 dodge challenger restoration from time to time. When I actually do, I get WAY more intense tunnel-vision(where the outside world doesn't exist), and I usually stay up for days in the garage....just about forgetting not only who I am, but what my wife's name is. Also had some catastrophic changes to my body when I nearly cut fingers off, burnt my eyebrows off, and been crushed by heavy objects. After a few days, I get my fill and emerge from the garage unscathed & the person I was when I entered it. Its ok. Life in general is a self indulgent activity.
However, the OPPOSITE is tru for me!:brolleyes:
After I found this site years ago and was COMPLETELY CONSUMED with either dressing, or PLANNING my next CD session! After a few month's, I suddenly lost ALL DESIRE TO DRESS! That lasted a couple months. I seem to have arrived at a balance now. I dress and think about it whenever I want to. Inevitably, that desire passes!:)
I dressed for 5 days straight at the SCC. After spending WEEKS preparing for it! It's been a month since then, and I'm just now getting excited about dressing again!:D
hiya Linda,
The statements are a good example of a ”logical fallacy”, specifically the one called “Slippery Slope”. This is where the arguer claims that a sort of chain reaction, usually ending in some dire consequence, will take place, but there’s really not enough evidence for that assumption. (“if A, then B, and if B, then C,” and so forth.).
When you opt to use chains of consequences in a discussion, the chains must be reasonable for the argument to be valid. In the example you posted, there is not sufficient evidence (that I know of) to support the chain of consequences she is claiming.
I would simply ask her to provide documentation for each part of her “chain”. (If A, then B, etc.).
But that’s just me…
:)
For a fetish, the addiction part and how to control it can be true. But it won't lead to TS'ism.
It sounds like couples therapy may be helpful. She seems to have a very narrow minded view of cd'ing. Also just because she says it's so doesn't mean it is, I kind of have to deal with this mind set.
Sure the urge to crossdress waxes and wanes with time, but so do many other things in life. I don't want to have a hamburger or waffles every day of my life, but there are some days when that is exactly what I crave. As far as self indulgent goes, sure it is to an extent, but so are many other things in life. How about your wife going to a beauty parlour, or buying a pair of shoes or a purse or clothes she doesn't really need? Going out to a movie or a play or a restaurant when you don't really need to? Buying a new couch when the old couch still works (even if it is well worn you can't understand why you ever liked that particular color), or owning a car when it isn't needed for your job and public transit exists? If you are going to do this it should be both of you eliminating self indulgent behaviours, not just you, and I suggest you both sit down and make a list so you can be sure to identify all such behaviours and can then monitor each other for compliance (not really serious about this last sentence).
To me part of what makes life worth living are some of the self indulgent activities we engage in, and as long as those activities are not harming anyone and done in moderation I don't see what the problem is and I certainly don't find her argument valid.
So, your spouse uses the "slippery slope" behaviour to try to indulge her wish for you to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by linda.wai
Any behaviour can be self indulgent - for example watching a film is a form of self indulgence (after all, you wouldn't do it if it did not give you pleasure). It is only if taken to extreme where it causes you to ignore the needs of those who are important inyour life that self indulgence becomes a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by linda.wai
The need (crave is too emotive a description) can wax and wane over time, but so can the need to indulge any other pleasure.
"If we try to control the urge, we can control it" - that is a circular argument that adds nothing to the debate.
Over-indulgence in many pleasures can on rare occasions turn into an addiction. Cross-dressing does not have any of the negatives usually associated with addiction - self harm , antisocial behaviour ... Indeed it can actively prevent self harm in some circumstances.
Cross-dressing even 24/7 does not turn you into a Transsexual, you either are or you aren't. It is a recognised medical condition, NOT conditioned behaviour.
You may need to find out for whom there is catastrophe if someone suffers from Gender Dysphoria (the medical diagnosis for transsexuality).
:2c:
Oh my if you even do it one more time. The devil will have you, you are an evil person for being different. You will dress again and end up pregnent. Your wife is so smart about this and obviously knows what will happen. forget what everyone on this forum says. what do they know. Don't go to a counselor because he or she will tell you that you are what you are. That you will not change and that you will need to find out at what level you need to just be happy. Your wife will be told that she has the right to accept you the way you are or leave but not stay and torment you. So please remember next week you will wake up and find that your body has changed into a real womans body. Because of all the evil in your heart being born different from others ..... You should get the idea by now.
I agree with Kelly -- just like other issues in the forum, the answer depends on who we are. For some of us with strong TS tendencies, 24/7 and gender reassignment is in the cards -- but that's because the TS tendencies were there to start with. Some of us dress or underdress once in a while in the closet, and there are all shades in between. It probably is self-indulgent, but so are other things that we do for ourselves! Perhaps the issue is figuring out where you fit in this spectrum, and discussing this with her.Quote:
Originally Posted by linda.wai
Chuckle. As if humans can be anything other than self indulgent. Controlling the urge to focus solely on those things that make an individual happy or secure (and there are infinite varieties) has kept philosophers and theologicians up at night forever. The bottom line is not whether CDing is a self indulgent behaviour that will cause one to slide down a slippery slope, the question moreover should be: are you a balanced person? Do you offset this behaviour with other behaviours that are externally focussed? Cding just one aspect of ones personality that brings happiness and pleasure at times but not the only aspect. To imagine that we all here on this board are just CDer's and somehow that is the only thing that defines us is preposterous and narrow minded. Sounds to me like she's the one trying to be self indulgent by oppressing your occasional need for self expression.
I want to ask for a show of hands.
" If I allow myself to CD once in a while, my urge for CD will ebb and lower for a period of time and will not lead to more crave or addiction"
My own answer is YES, the urge will lower and i only feel good and won't end up addicted.
What's the view of other sisters here?
My spouse is against my CD and she offers this reason to get me to stop.
1. CD is a form of self indulgent behavior and the crave waxes and wanes with time.
Yes it is self indulgent, so is watching television. And it does wax and wane, but what difference does that make to the subject?
2. If we try to control the urge and prevent it to peak, one can control it.
If it comes as an urge, for many, the control is to dress, to deny it causes the urge to become overwhelming.
3. If we allow ourselves to indulge, It will turn into an addiction.
If the urge is strong, it is an addiction, one with no known "cure".
4. Eventually, it will be CD 24/7, then TS and catastrophic changes will result.
I can't answer this one for anyone but me, but after 60 years of crossdressing, I've never gone 24/7 for more than a few days, and so far the only catastrophic changes that have happened to me, where I got fat and old, I don't think dressing caused either of those conditions though.
5. I am unsure if that's valid.
Now, there is your problem, your not sure, and there is no way you can reassure her, when you are not sure where you are headed yourself.I've found the level of dressing needed to make me feel good about myself, and still be the man of the house, my wife feels secure in the fact I will always be there for her, to kill the spiders, figure out what is wrong with the car, and all that guy stuff, and I feel secure enough to know she loves me is a suit or a skirt just the same.
Tina B.
I can understand the issue that your wife is bringing up, and many of it is the culture that we all grow up in...I may be around the world from you, but we have the same basic teachings and family values that many cannot understand. This is a statement more towards recreational drug/alcohol use, and just the cd words are added in. CD'ing is not a form of self indulgent behavior...it is an expression of the personality that one has. Maybe you should sit down with her, and explain how Linda is a part of your persona, and even in drab dress, Linda is still there, helping to make your decisions. I know that Maria is part of me, and my wife understands that now. Hope this helps
She could be right, but for the wrong reason. Yes, you may desire to dress more, maybe to complete transition. Not because you're feeding the addiction, but because that's how you identify, express yourself, and feel comfortable with. If that's why you dress, her agrument may be valid.
I dress because it's exciting, even sexually arousing, as for many cd's. It's always been a part-time thing, and always will be. I love getting transformed and spending a few hours made up and dressed up, but eventually back to all guy stuff. If this is why you dress, her argument is invalid.
If you can't function if you are not dressed then it is a problem. If you can't have a relationship because of dressing. If you can't think of anything but dressing then you need help. Your wife will not want you to "collect" anything, or have an interest she don't approve of.
Em
My EX said the goal for me was to "throw my cookies" if I even touched a article of women clothing in a store......WHATEVER!
Em
my Dressing has got more and more regular through the years BUT the urge to transition hasn't even entered my mind,I think your wife is barking up the wrong tree here,Unless the desire has been strong within you to transition,then i dont think Crossdressing alone can lead to It,I may be wrong but thats my thoughts on this
:hugs:Sophie xx
Hello Linda!
What your wife (and my wife for that matter) is missing is that we are transgendered to some degree or we would not be dressing in the first place. What is not normal for her, is very normal and necessary for us. To tell you just to stop dressing and stop the addiction is incorrect. You are in fact being yourself. If changing genders from being a male is what you want to do, and you end up doing it, it is still you being you.
Well, my feeling is CDing is from birth, just like I believe gays are born gay. My SO was a CD from a very young age, he was sexual with it at a very young age, so in this aspect I do not believe it is self indulgant. I do not think it is learned behavior. I think it is a natural state of "being" for a CDer to want to dress! It is a part of there make up so to speak. I also think that purging and denial is from this natural state being forced down from non acceptance and fear of rejection from society (social stigma), friends and family. I believe your GG and I don't know the whole story here so I'm going with my gut, is in fear mode, control mode, maybe ignorant mode because she doesn't know enough yet, like I said I don't know the whole story. But maybe if she could come and learn more it would help things and help her to understand more of what is happening to her and you.Quote:
My spouse is against my CD and she offers this reason to get me to stop.
CD is a form of self indulgent behavior and the crave waxes and wanes with time. If we try to control the urge and prevent it to peak, one can control it. If we allow ourselves to indulge, It will turn into an addiction. Eventually, it will be CD 24/7, then TS and catastrophic changes will result.
I am unsure if that's valid.
My brother is gay, he can't change that in himself, I watched him for years have women by his side to make everyone think he was a normal male, one of his crazy partners threathened to out him to our family, fortunatly, I was able to stop this at impasse, he finally told me everything and it was our secret for 4 years until he finally came out to my family, he lived a miserable existance all his life because of his own confusion and acceptance of himself let alone anyone else, he was so unhappy, it saddens me to this day to think of all the time (years) he spent alone and in secret, my family accepted all of it, we loved him always, he was just so scared of the rejection that may have come, but in the end love endured! I still remeber the first time he kissed a male in front of me when we lived together, I knew he was gay, we were best friends, but when I actually saw this it freaked me out, it didn't last long though and I made sure he never knew it. It was like that with my SO when I first saw him dressed, it was the same feeling, but it also didn't last long, and I also made sure he didn't know it. I always believe even through the toughest and most painful of times love endures all, if it doesn't it wasn't love to start with!
I'm also a recovering addict and alcoholic for 24 years, I see no addiction process with CDing, in addiction we end up in jails, instutions or death if we don't recover, I don't see CDers out in blackouts driving cars, in drunk fights, killing people, beating women, etc.. now I'm not purposing here that a CDer can't be a drunk and drug addict and be a CDer, I'm saying that I don't see CDing as an addiction per say in itself! I believe that the CDer urges are more frequent and stronger when they are put in a position of not being able to express themselves freely as who they really are inside. If they are free to be who they are 24/7 it may move forward into something else nobody knows that and yes, every CDer is different on their personal journey in life to be free to be who they are, some will move forward, some will be happy where their at!
I hope you and your SO will find your way together one day, just never give up being who you were truly meant to be, hugs, mygirlsgirl:)
For the self indulgent part...guilty as charged. For the rest, not so much.
Hi Linda,
Well much of what could happen in the future is entirely down to you, if you have an addictive personality they you may become addicted to crossdressing more and more, just like with any vice that you may become involved with, the usual suspects are smoking, drinking and drugs. But if you feel that you know yourself well enough to keep your crossdressing under control or atleast to a level that your wife finds acceptable you kinda owe it to yourself to give it a try...and maybe you and your wife could figure out some ground rules for you to abide by.
I would have gotten a bag of cookies & carried it around- "just doing what you told me" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily Ann Brown
and what is wrong with indulging yourself now and again?
I am merely adding my opinion and not any proposed fact so reader beware...
If CD is an addiction, can it be cured? Alcoholism, drug abuse, shopping (which I have en femme and not in drab mode), chocolate, smoking, caffiene, etc are forms of addiction. I would think that these things can be cured given the right motivation. For me, my body tells me I need to dress. Is that the same as someone else's body telling them they need a drink or smoke? Who knows. I can tell you that every day, I have to eat something...what that is is somewhat of a choice but the body will push you towards cravings that satisfy the needs of the body before it pushes you towards the twinkie. With dressing, my body pushes me towards the women's panties instead of the men's briefs. Is this the part of choice that warrants addictive behavior? If so, why do I feel like crap for choosing the briefs? Why do I feel shame for choosing the panties?
Your wife is making broad generalizations about a topic that has so many different facets it cannot be packaged into one neat little explanation. As Eluzzion mentioned, "if A then B" does not ring true in the TG community. "If a male is born from a woman he will be straight and wear men's clothes." Isn't this statemenet why society has such a problem with the TG community in the first place - we don't fit the mold everyone else thinks we should fit.
If you have read any of my other posts, I am usually uncertain of my own path and somewhat self depracating but I refuse to be funneled into someone's fear driven stereotype that doesn't even fit the majority of CD people. She should do a lot of research on the subject before she corners you into a little "man" cage that you will spend the rest of your marriage trying to escape.
I'm just sayin' is all...
Exploring aspects of your personality is an inherently self indulgent thing to do. That is the whole point! When you express masculine qualities you are self indulging your male side. So what? Is it a crime to express yourself? As for addiction, you cannot become addicted to displaying the real you. Self-expression is not addictive. There are addictive issues about femininity such as the fashionable clothing but this is an issue all GGs themselves have to deal with as well. It is not an argument that can be used to stop self-expression.
This is a false discussion. Lets read between the lines, The issue here is your wife believes in and wants the artificial social divide between masculine and feminine. This makes her happy and content when you behave the way society programmed you to behave. Her expectations are met and she gets peer approval. By crossdressing you break down the artificial barrier and become a more whole, complete person hopefully more knowledgeable, more empathic, more understanding and of course happier. You want to step outside the box while she wants to remain firmly locked inside.
No spouse should demand that their happiness is more important than their spouses. How can you be happy at the expense of your partner's misery? The only solution is to either learn and grow together as a couple, or agree to a don't ask don't tell policy. Otherwise the relationship is heading for the rocks.
[SIZE="2"]This is a completely inaccurate assessment of crossdressing, because it infers that there is a problem, like a disease, that needs to be controlled and eliminated. Self indulgent? Compared to what, exactly? I think you can call nearly every activity “self-indulgent” to one degree or another. Control the urge? How about enjoy the moment, or series of moments, and be happy? Allow ourselves to indulge? Who says we can’t? Who says we are indulging in the first place? How about “I want to be this way?” or “I chose to be happy?" CD 24/7, TS, and then “catastrophic” changes? Whoever wrote these words (I know it wasn't you, linda) needs some education regarding crossdressing, tolerance, and human compassion. CD, TG, and TS are three completely different things.[/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by linda.wai
if her logic were true, every pot smoker in the world would end up strung out on heroin... a la the 60s movie Reefer Madness.....
That is a position perceived by many women. The statement may have some foundation in truth. I just don't know the answer to this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by linda.wai
I do know the answer! There is no foundation for the statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAMichelle
There is absolutely no evidence that even one person has become transsexual because of cross-dressing. There is evidence that transsexuals have come to accept their need to transition after cross-dressing, but they were already transsexual.
Just for the record, there are no cures for alcoholism and addiction. They can be controlled, but not cured. It is a lifetime sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy_M
Thank you Sue,
That's why they call it falling off the wagon just as I have done many many times with Cding. Alcohol addiction is more like a disease that is denied the title because of medical insurance's and life insurance industrys. They would go broke on claims add in smokeing and illegal drug use they all effect the body's system and has been proven that your body will soon crave/adjust to the so called addictions.
Moderation or never start is the key to any addiction ,miss use or abuse is the downfall, in other words your addiction grows stonger. Unlike " sexual preferances " Crossdressing is an addiction !! It can grow, we where not born wearing clothing . The more you feed the addiction the more your body craves the desire. Every addiction has a ceiling or a level ,that's when the chemical effects your body produces when craved and the addiction is satisfied until later when the body re produces these same chemicals again and the process repeats ,when your body produces these chemicals, by clinical terms that falls into a disease catagory.
Continue to surpass you addiction level and soon your body will produce even more chemical addiction desire ( if you will ) .. The addiction to Alcohol isn't the cause of death it is the alcohol it's self that causes damage to your enternal organs than soon death. Many who die from alcohol related deaths where aware the addiction was killing them but unknowingly placed themselves by abuseing the substance there through produceing the chemical desire..There is no cure for that.. Just treatment.
Thanks I am not a doctor btw but I do watch alot of discovery channel.. I am not saying CDIng and drug,smoking and alcohol abuse are related in anyway ,but I feel the addiction can be compared.. Oh I am not also saying that the Discovery channel use Cding as any example combined to a disease or drug,alcohol or smoking addictions either..
Gotta get those disclaimers These are my own opinions no pun intended to anyone in this Forum.
I was thinking the same thing, except I crave chocolate. Do I indulge to the point of sickness or being 500 lbs overweight? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Zwidling
I would agree that CDing is self indulgent behavior, you do it because it makes you feel good, and what is the problem with that, I also agree that it [SIZE=4] [/SIZE]waxes and wanes with time. I don't agree at all that it will turn into an addiction, the statement about waxing and waning says it doesn't. Although sometimes it may seem like it is. I do think that cding has to be kept in perspective just like anything else. I know runners who have an addiction to running. To say you will become a TS I don't think at all is valid.
My advice everything in moderation [SIZE=4]
[/SIZE]
We abuse the term addiction if we extend it to anything related to cross-dressing. I will agree that it can be a compulsion, but that is not the same thing as an addiction. As you illustrated with your other examples, addiction leads to slef-harm and/or antisocial behaviour. What self-harm results from dressing differently to the gender binary stereotype?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella
People who cross-dress can be jerks. Guess what, so can cisgendered people. Many addicts resort to a life of crime to satisfy there addiction, what percentage of cross-dressers do you think resort to crime to satisfy their compulsion to look pretty (or if FtM to look more masculine)?
Another distinction between compulsive behaviour and addiction is a chemical dependency on the addictive substance, there is no chemical dependency on wearing clothes of any sort.
Rianna . I.Agree's :)..
But ..Wouldn't it be fair to say just as any addiction , lets take Alcoholisum as an example.. Just because you have one or two beers a week doesn't make you an Alcoholic.. If you drink and drink till it causes you harm and those around you harm then it's an addiction.. Big differance between compulsion, one or two a week and addiction can't do without ..
I know there are no Chemical depedency's on wearing clothing just as there are none to gambling. Chemical dependecy is ingested and very different to the chemicals produced by our bodies. Take alcohol again for example , It's poison to our bodies why do we enjoy it? Because it produces a chemical or helps to produce rather, that is known in some to create happiness or simular feelings . Our body fights it but our brain fuels it.
Agreed, sorry for the mis-statement. Most addictions don't get cured, merely controlled. Between yours and Lucy's comments, maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe I need to work on controlling my addiction to expressing myself in feminine clothes. As Lucy stated, we weren't born with clothes so it makes sense that the need to wear them came later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue
The consensus seems to be :
1. Yes, it is a compulsive self indulgent
2. But so what! It brings joy nevertheless
3. It's not an addiction
4. If done in moderation, it won't do any harm.