What "passing" means to me

Though I have been cd'ing most of my life, I only recently gathered the courage to venture into the public. I have always been afraid of not being able to pass. I have finally come to realize that "passing" isn't necessarily about not being read, but rather being read and still being accepted and treated with respect.

I spent yesterday out on the town going shopping and getting a bite to eat. At Macy's (my favorite store) a woman approached me to tell me she really liked my dress. Now I am not completely gullible. I am 5'11" and wearing a low cut dress with 4" heels out shopping. I know I have been read, but I came to realize that I was also accepted by this total stranger. Normally I would have been completely humiliated but it actually made me feel good.

Following my shopping trip I stopped by a McDonalds for a snack. After ordering, the teenage girl (who I fear the most) gave me my order and told me I looked beautiful. Again, I know I've been read. I also have a young daughter and have a Phd in sarcasm, and this girl was sincere. I thanked her kindly and went about my night with a smile. A good day.

Sorry for the long rant, but wanted to share my new found freedom.

Sounds like a terric out Karain. I would be in heaven if a teeage girl, or anyone for that matter who say that I'm lovely. :battingeyelashes:

You go girl! I'm glad you had fun.
Everyone has thier own idea of passing - which is a good thing. They should. You sound like you expected negativefeedback at every turn. What I hope you don't let deter you is any negative you will encounter. Heck, I receive negative when I'm out in guy mode and don't let it rock my boat - why would I not expect to get some kind of sorryassed comment while in girl mode. Let it be like rain to a ducks back.

Truly a most elequent way to put things in perspective.

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Originally Posted by KarainCT

I also have a young daughter and have a Phd in sarcasm,

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[SIZE="4"]LOVE IT!! :D:D

Well said ... it really is about acceptance and enjoyment.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]All of us create our own intrepretation of what passing is, for some it is not being beaten down and for others it is the ability to pass through a crowd virtually un-noticed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]I took a slightly different path as my abilities and my skills developed, I decided that I would go toward the other end and be noticed, but to be noticed for dressing nicely and appearing as a working woman with a particular "theme". I went to beauty school, (to gain a "legitimate" reason to dress the way I do) worked as a male as a hair stylist to develop my skills, then went to work as a woman doing the same thing. Over time I have developed my character and now work full time as a woman and move through crowds drawing some attention, hopefully for the skills I have developed in makeup, hair styling and general appearance.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]I may draw attention with my hair and makeup, but generally it is more of the positive note rather than the "guy in a dress" view I used to get years ago. I still get looked at, stared at, and rarely made fun of, but I am out there enjoying life to the fullest. My attituded has carried me throught many times when I felt hesitant. This is yesterday's look prior to work..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]Attachment 145930[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]Think about what you are doing, have a plan and maintain a storng positive attitude and your ability to pass comes with it, however you define it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]But, that is just my point of view.[/SIZE]

Hi Karain,

Good for you, I'm glad that you're out and about and are meeting some nice people who are open-minded enough to let you know that they approve of what you're doing. You deserve congratulations for being brave enough to do what you're doing. Most of us aren't brave enough to do that. Judging by your avatar photo, you are lovely, and undoubtedly do pass most of the time, if your photo is an accurate indication of your appearance.

But your posting takes me off on a bit of a tangent: the term "passing" is actually quite precise in its meaning, it means that one is being mistaken for a member of the opposite genetic sex. Why do people in our community seem to never tire of redefining various clearly defined terms? If you were read by two people, then you weren't passing all the time. Being accepted is not the same as passing.

For the record, I feel that being read and accepted is far more preferable to passing, but that's me. Since I am very, very tall and also overweight, I will probably never pass, but I guess there's always a chance that I'd be accepted if I ever work up the nerve to start going about my business while dressed.

Anyway, this is not intended to criticism in any way, shape or form, just questioning why you seem to be trying to re-define the term "passing"? Nit-picking, admittedly.

Carol

One thing to remember: you do not know if you passed unless you do not, and they tell you. It can drive you nuts wondering/worrying about that issue. Worry about how you blend in and forget "passing".

I'm treating 'passing' as a stage thing, as a guy I've never been taught how to do my own makeup so I've been following the advice the makeup lady for what shade I should be using. I got some estee lauder tinted moisturizer, concealer, foundation, and nail polish so far, and I'm trying to prefect the make on me as a male so that it improve my appearance, but no one knows I'm wearing makeup... once I do that I'll know that I'm successful, then when I'm ready I can begin being fem hopefully in a few years get new makeup colors and really try to wow myself and other with how beautiful I can be, but with the core of everthing I do blend in, right now I'm passing as a male, by wearing makeup and trying to make sure no one notices, and later on I'll hope to pass so that I can be fem and people just think I'm a beautiful woman.

tonight I'm going to a movie with my sister and some of her friends, wearing makeup, if nothing else it makes me feel better about myself, but I do notice that the concealer does a great job of hiding the dark circles under my eyes.

Karain, I think you have found what should be the crossdresser's holy grail - acceptance.

This last Thursday I spent the day out shopping and running errands dressed as Phoebe. I was wearing a nice top, skirt, hose, and low heels. One place I went was to a branch of the bank I do business with to close out a safe deposit box. While conducting this business the bank officer (a GG) I was dealing with (and had never met before) had nothing but smiles and ordinary small talk as if I were just another woman customer. There's no doubt she read me - especially after I gave her my bank card (with my male picture on it) and my state issued ID card (with my femme picture on it). Yet, it made no difference. She never even asked why I was dressed the way I was. That's acceptance.

Congratulations to you. I'm in the same boat I just haven't jumped in for a swim yet. I fear the water is too cold. I respect your courage.

Carol,
I truly respect your point of view and by no means wish to cause any hard feelings, but the true meaning of pass according to Oxford is to be taken for, be regarded as, be accepted as, be mistaken for. So I don't think I am trying to redefine the definition, just applying it to my particular situation.:hugs:

Phoebe,
Now that is AWESOME! I know I don't have the courage to do that, but it must have been wonderful. I tried to check in at a hotel while I was traveling on business, but chickened out and changed at the last minute. I made it into the lobby and lost my nerve. Maybe next time.

Cheryl,
I'm sure you've heard it before, but that first jump is the hardest. But once you're in, what a feeling. I am in awe of some of the gals on the forum who do what they do. A true inspiration.

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Originally Posted by KarainCT

Carol,
I truly respect your point of view and by no means wish to cause any hard feelings, but the true meaning of pass according to Oxford is to be taken for, be regarded as, be accepted as, be mistaken for. So I don't think I am trying to redefine the definition, just applying it to my particular situation.:hugs:

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Well, in the transgender community for the 30-some years that I've been interacting with other MTF members on one way or another, it's always meant to "be mistaken for", so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings here and none intended. :)

Carol

My "dare to dream" situation.. Truth is there are times when I think wouldn't it be just as nice to wear some clothes of my choice and not worry about being read.. And in fact know that I am wearing just the lower half as cross dress and the upper half just regular male attire and not wear makeup or anything to even remotely try to pass.. Right.. When monkeys fly...

to pass or just run with it??

i would be in heaven if a couple girls out in the big bad world of the english (know the movie this line is from?) would say to me "you look great"
just being accepted is what i am looking for. i do not look like a woman, but have not had any problems. even had a lady bum say mam do you have any cash you can give me.(the sad part here, is she way teaching her little girl how to beg. not work for money).
maybe if i can get the makeup better??

.

I'm kind of at this point where I realize that I will likely never pass as a female. However, there is a beauty in being a confident, comfortable, crossdresser, transgendered, whatever you call it person. People on this forum as well as a few real life encounters have made me realize this and it is great.

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Originally Posted by Mrogredick

I'm kind of at this point where I realize that I will likely never pass as a female. However, there is a beauty in being a confident, comfortable, crossdresser, transgendered, whatever you call it person. People on this forum as well as a few real life encounters have made me realize this and it is great.

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I echo this, I too am not even going to pretend that with my build I can ever pass as a female. I guess for me, passing isn't about fooling anyone or being mistake for a female, but it's what I feel. I know, cue the cheesy violins, but "passing" to me anyway, is being able to look in the mirror and not see the person I am 99% percent of the time. I feel like I pass when my wife tells me she thought I was a woman out of the corner of her eye. I guess anytime I feel like Lexxi, and not like a guy in a wig. Like I said, I'll never look passable unless there is a lot of low light and some liquor involved, but I feel passable when the above said things happen to me. When I feel beautiful, when I feel like Alexxis, I feel passable.

ah i know what u mean , to me passing was being a women in every way i could, when i dress i try to be totaly like a women with the exception of voice but that im gana need help with, but i dont ever want someone to say hay look at that guy over there in them womens clothes i want them to say hey she looks cute or pretty or nice and not even know now the people i have ran into while dressed has never batted an eye at me even when they hear my male voice , they all smile and nod or wave or say hi alot of time i get, "i like your _______" wich makes me extatic to think someone likes the style that i picked out

I think you have summed it up really well for me Karain,to be treated with respect even though we may have been "read" can make you feel just as good as those who may pass

When my wife were shopping this week a SA we encountered,started talking away to us we knew it wasnt a sales ploy,as we already had wat she was selling,I was already happy after her "hello Ladies" welcome:)

Things like that restore your faith in people

:hugs:Sophie

Great post Karain. I have been dealing with the same thing lately. The more I get out the more I realize people do treat me with respect whether or not they think I am male/female whatever. People will approach me and make comments, nice boots, etc. I have decided that it is ok to be a curiousity to some and I wil do my best to be friendly and approachable. passing as a human being after all is the most important. Who wants to fail at that.

I'm happy for you Karain. I go out in feminized male mode because thats how I feel the most comfortable. Even so, many times I get compliments from women on my nails, earrings, perfume, ect. It really picks up my spirits and gives me my best feelings; feeling like one of the girls. I find the college age girls are the most friendly and accepting. Being able to present my feminine side in public and at work and find there are accepting people is truly liberating. It really is the best medicine for dealing with the guilt feelings I've had for many years.
Jamie

Wow this is very eye opening to me. I have been so consumed with looking as perfect as possible for passing in public that I never thought that people may just still be nice and cool even if they do think you are not a GG. I did however meet two GG's on Halloween that were 6 feet tall and were very cute. Girls seem to be getting taller. I am 5'10" so I think I can still be OK even in 2-3" heels. I just saw a woman in the bank who was so gorgeous and she was taller than me in her heels. So while its very nice to be treated nicely if you think you were read, I wouldn't be so sure that you can't pass as a tall girl. You look pretty good as far as I can see.

I don't even try to pass... Just look as good as I can.. Passing Bubba in the hotel hall a couple times last week, I could have cared less if knew I wasn't a woman. As long as he thought I looked nice. Lol.

Look and act your best, stand up tall (good posture) look people in the eye, smile, be confident... Whenever I have followed this mantra I have had a great time in my limited public exposure (clubs)... If somone thinks I'm a drag queen, then I might as well act like one and enjoy myself.

Great thread Karain, and thanks for your experience. It has helped me a lot... I think!

I started to get brave in terms of going out about 18 months ago. I finally felt reasonably confident to try "edging" with others and cruised at the extremeties of hotel receptions etc...

I then realised my real problem was getting through a hotel reception to the outside world. So when away on business i started staying at serviced apartments and started "going out". Slowly, bit by bit.. I built my confidence. Then I went back to a hotel and decided to do it... not checking in, but once in going out and coming back etc...

The end of that experience was to check out, get changed and made up, walk out, get in the car drive back home but stop many time en route and mix with people at what we call shopping centres (mini malls but not enclosed). That went well, even stopped for petrol (gas) and stuff... I am on a high. I subsequently had lift (elevator?) encounters that went well. I walked about York and clocked 3 guys looking at me more than usual for a casual glance... but ok. I also had a guy stare at me as I was crossing the road to my apartment one day... just too long. No negative comments though.

I have had about 5 months since then with no opportunity, and now that I have again, I am scared to death of going out. It petrifies me!

Your words have helped me tonight. Next week I may have the chance again...

Thank You

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Originally Posted by KarainCT

I have finally come to realize that "passing" isn't necessarily about not being read, but rather being read and still being accepted and treated with respect.

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That's the spirit! :cheer:

And as you do gain in confidence and interact with others more and more (as opposed to just walking through a mall not talking to anyone for example), eventually the people you meet will know all about you, especially when you see them more than once and become friends. I can't think of anything more honest than accepting yourself for who you are, no matter where it is along the continuum. Others appreciate the honesty as well and there are many people out there who will applaud you for having the courage to be yourself. :)

Hi Karin, Important subject. It really affects all of us that are concerned about being assimilated into the mainstream of the gender that we feel comfortable. Initially on my behalf yes, I was apprehensive in being out in public and suffering through my ill-perceived thoughts of the publics perception and behavior towards me. Awkward glances, yes, however, as I shopped at a major department store on pins and needles I began to finally let go of my preconceived images of the publics behavior towards me and began to shop in earnest without fear. It was I that finally relaxed and accepted myself as abby. No-one really cared. It wasn't until I arrived home hands full of purchases that I realized that I had passed. It really comes down to your mental state of acceptance... Hugs.

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Originally Posted by GirlieAmanda

I have been so consumed with looking as perfect as possible...

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Your hard work has certainly paid off. You look AMAZING!

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Originally Posted by Kaz

I have had about 5 months since then with no opportunity, and now that I have again, I am scared to death of going out. It petrifies me!

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I don't know how others feel, but I know I still feel, maybe not fear, but certainly anxiety every time I venture out. Have a great time when the opportunity does arrive.

Good for you Kara. Glad to hear your outing resulting in a positive and enjoyable experience. :)

Most CDs pass exceeding well because we have got the art of passing as a "normal" male down to a fine art-form. No-one ever suspects we are something else.

I believe the gay movement only began to make progress in breaking down society's prejudices when they began the gay pride marches. Being proud of who you really are is the most important thing we can do. Isn't it about time we stopped pretending to be either masculine males or GGs and actually be proud to let people know what we are?

Too many CDs stay trapped inside their homes too afraid to venture out because they feel they have to learn to pass as a GG first. This notion merely validates society's prejudices that there is something wrong which needs to be hidden by disguise. This idea is outdated and needs to be put to rest.

So I congratulate you Karain on your insight and hope you story encourages others to be proud of being a CD.

I am glad you had a good experience.It helps to give me the courage to do that some day.

"Think about what you are doing, have a plan and maintain a storng positive attitude and your ability to pass comes with it, however you define it."

But, that is just my point of view.



Well said, Tamara. This is pretty much my view of being out in the public eye. It has done me well also.

Hard to believe you worry about passing. You look great!

I've never claimed to be able to pass as a woman, but I do expect to be either ignored or treated with a little respect. I also expect that I will eventually run into someone who is offended by my presence here on Earth, and I will return the compliment. Although my last outting was on Halloween, I was not in costume, but dressed in nice pants and a sweater. No one stared and the checker at the store didn't mention anything to me. Nor did she ask her co-workers to look at me or announce over the store P.A. system a "code pink - Crossdresser in the store". What she did after I left is her business.

I think you hit on the trick that the majority of us who go out eventually find. It's fun for us and it may be fun for them if they understand it's not going to hurt anyone if they show some respect.

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Originally Posted by KarainCT

...I also have a young daughter and have a Phd in sarcasm...

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Kara, you present so well. Do you share this part of yourself with your daughter?

:) Lallie

Wow, one can spend all day listening to what is passing ........ In conclusion, be realistic when going out . Yes, look at real women and real men as they dress for the places yopu will want to go to . Watch posture , mannerisms , and above all, PRACTICE !