to each their own I guess

I have noticed that some people like differnt things about crossdressing,, what I mean is there are many different types of cd's,, you have some that want to be girls(women),, then you have some that want to be little girls(sissy's), then some that want to be teens(****ty) and some that just want to dress their age and try to blend in,,, I think all have tried all varitys of these outfits and yes all are fun sometimes but when going out in public and dressing in a sissy dress and people see it then they think all cd's are like that,,,, read some storys on the internet saying some cd's like to go in changing rooms and try on clothes and plesure yourself,,,that is sooooo wrong and you just shut that store down for us all to shop in,,,, you need to be kind,,respectfull and friendly so us all can be out and about,,,, everyone is someone else's weirdo so dont put a label on us and ruin great chances for wonderful adventures,,, a shop owner once told me all cd's are welcome until one does something unmentionable then the store will follow policy and not allow us to try on clothes,,,, so what am I trying to say? I have no clue,,,just venting,,LOL

There are many different types of people in every classification,, be yourself but all must be polite and not peverted,,,guess thats all

I totally agree.

We all need to put forth a little character and sophistication when we dress, no matter if we are trying on clothes in a store or at home.

In my case, I still haven't came out to my wife and when I do I will present myself as a "Classy" girl with character.

Television shows like Jerry Springer has really put a label on our community that we need to shake off.

I have never been 'out and about' but when I do I want to feel more at ease and have other people's attitude more positive toward me.


Huggs,

Kelli Ann

Some very good points but I think the horizon should be expanded beyond simply the crossdressing spectrum. Think of it as a TG spectrum in that when we go out, hopefully with respect towards women in appearance and behavior rather than the poor-judgement cases you describe (& I'm being nice in saying it that way). The average person doesn't know how we identify. A person who identifies as being a CD may in fact be a TS or vice versa or anywhere in between. My point is that anyone who is part time in their presentation can simply take the whole thing off whenever they choose. They don't have to endure the potential of public scrutiny at every turn like those who are full time. Therefore, in being respectful in presentation and mindful of those who follow in our wake, we are in fact helping all who identify as TG and go out in this wonderful world of ours.

Good thoughts, Amy and Sara J....
I think it really does come down to having respect for others....as trite as that may sound, we all yearn for respect, and this forum exemplifies that. No matter how or why we dress, or play....we owe it to ourselves to show respect to others, even those who don't necessarily agree with our point of view.

One of the things about crossdressing - and a large part of why I feel society will never accept it - is the fact there are many reasons for it. When something is outside of what the majority consider "normal", society tries to classify and box it. To find away to put a label on it and place it within society it a way that it does not harm, affect or upset the "normal" majority. This is the issue that was raised back in the 20's to the 80's when homosexuality was not understood. Society tried to define it and pin it down, treating it initially as a disease or a medical condition which they tried to cure (to stop other catching it) in pretty inhumane and frankly worrying ways at times. But what eventually has come out (as far as I am aware) is that is down to the wiring of the brain and is nothing which will cause harm or worry to socierty. This has therefore led to a re-boxing of it and now into gradual acceptance on both a male and female perspective.

With cross dressing, as has been pointed out, there are many reasons for it. Some people want to experience life as a woman, others do it for a sexual kick, others want to understand the female side of their personalities - or how women in general and use this as an avenue, others are trans-gendered and so it as it feels natural, some even want to try and change societies preconceptions on what men can and cannot wear. This means boxing the whole cross dressing thing is simply not possible, as you have conflicts between the different ideals and how they would fit into society. Society as accepted the trans-gendered section to a degree much in the same way as homosexuality was accepted 10-15 years ago. It is not liked, shunned but people let it go mostly and go their best to avoid those who may be in this group of people.

And with a ever more intolerant society where abnormal is seen as a threat those of us who are not trans-gendered are forced to lead double lives in order to work and fit in when necessary. This is a form of self-protection on both sides. Society is protecting itself from being "corrupted", we are protecting ourselves *and often our families) mentally and physically by restricting what we do.

Remember society is defined and guided by WOMEN not men. They are the social aspect of the world as a rule. We are treading on their direct territory and they do not like it. This makes breaking the barriers even harder. Men gave up dominance of their masculine world many years ago and have allowed women in as (mostly) equals and partners. Women never offered or attempted to give the same opportunity to men and they never will because they where smart enough to take a lot and give very little in return and men where too stupid to notice.

I think that all the time society refuses to accept that we are ALL normal people, we will never be accepted or tolerated in the way we wish to be - other than for short periods we venture out and show the world who we really are. A shop will accept us until we are perceived to be a nuisance or threat (in any respect) - then we will be shut out. The same goes for any public place - be it a restaurant, a bar, a cinema or whatever. This is society testing, trying to define us again and see if we need re-boxing. Sadly we can be boxed both in a better or worse way and only we have the power to ensure it is for the better.

I hope that ramble made some sense.

Klaire

Interesting comments on society,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Klaire Larnia

One of the things about crossdressing - and a large part of why I feel society will never accept it - is the fact there are many reasons for it.
Society has come a long way towards accepting it, Consider the changes in the last 25 years. TV shows , entertainment, documenteries, movies youtube, websites, forums, geared toward th TG community , all out in the open.

TG political,sports,entertainment,ativists all out in the open and accepted by society. small steps but good steps all the same.

When something is outside of what the majority consider "normal", society tries to classify and box it. To find away to put a label on it and place it within society it a way that it does not harm, affect or upset the "normal" majority. This is the issue that was raised back in the 20's to the 80's when homosexuality was not understood.
Homosexuality and crossdressing do not allways go hand in hand.

Society tried to define it and pin it down, treating it initially as a disease or a medical condition which they tried to cure (to stop other catching it) in pretty inhumane and frankly worrying ways at times.

Current understanding is moving towards hangs in definition, similar to being born right or lefthanded.

But what eventually has come out (as far as I am aware) is that is down to the wiring of the brain and is nothing which will cause harm or worry to socierty. This has therefore led to a re-boxing of it and now into gradual acceptance on both a male and female perspective.

With cross dressing, as has been pointed out, there are many reasons for it. Some people want to experience life as a woman, others do it for a sexual kick, others want to understand the female side of their personalities - or how women in general and use this as an avenue, others are trans-gendered and so it as it feels natural, some even want to try and change societies preconceptions on what men can and cannot wear. This means boxing the whole cross dressing thing is simply not possible, as you have conflicts between the different ideals and how they would fit into society. Society as accepted the trans-gendered section to a degree much in the same way as homosexuality was accepted 10-15 years ago. It is not liked, shunned but people let it go mostly and go their best to avoid those who may be in this group of people.

And with a ever more intolerant society where abnormal is seen as a threat those of us who are not trans-gendered are forced to lead double lives in order to work and fit in when necessary. This is a form of self-protection on both sides. Society is protecting itself from being "corrupted", we are protecting ourselves *and often our families) mentally and physically by restricting what we do.

Remember society is defined and guided by WOMEN not men.
?????? You may want to reread history, I'm sure there were a fem men involved, or explain this idea in more detail

They are the social aspect of the world as a rule. We are treading on their direct territory and they do not like it. This makes breaking the barriers even harder. Men gave up dominance of their masculine world many years ago and have allowed women in as (mostly) equals and partners. Women never offered or attempted to give the same opportunity to men and they never will because they where smart enough to take a lot and give very little in return and men where too stupid to notice.

I think that all the time society refuses to accept that we are ALL normal people, we will never be accepted or tolerated in the way we wish to be - other than for short periods we venture out and show the world who we really are.
I will bet you in 3-4 generations, there will be total aeptance.

A shop will accept us until we are perceived to be a nuisance or threat (in any respect) - then we will be shut out. The same goes for any public place - be it a restaurant, a bar, a cinema or whatever. This is society testing, trying to define us again and see if we need re-boxing. Sadly we can be boxed both in a better or worse way and only we have the power to ensure it is for the better.

I hope that ramble made some sense.

Klaire

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I found your omments very interesting Klaire, :)

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Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter

I found your comments very interesting Klaire, :)

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In a good or a bad way???

With regards to society being more or less run by women. My basis for this is that women are generally more social as people than men. They talk more, are more open and intimate. They share ideas and develop them. A lot of women will also plant seeds of ideas into men to let them grow as if the original idea came from them. A quite word here and there.

Do not forget we are treading in THEIR world, they are already in the male world by and large (both work, job and socially). So acceptance of what we do must really come from women, if they accept it the society will start to.

Klaire

But, NEVER in public!:Angry3:

I agree completely, Dee!:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dealight

Good thoughts, Amy and Sara J....
I think it really does come down to having respect for others....as trite as that may sound, we all yearn for respect, and this forum exemplifies that. No matter how or why we dress, or play....we owe it to ourselves to show respect to others, even those who don't necessarily agree with our point of view.

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Unfortunately, it's always, "man bites dog", stories that make the news! While the 1,000's of, "dog bites man", stories r ignored!:sad:

And so, the ONE CD doing something outragious makes the news, while the 1,000's of u who r out there trying to blend r ignored by the media and unknown to the general public!:brolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Klaire Larnia

So acceptance of what we do must really come from women, if they accept it the society will start to.

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If that is the case, the TG folks might have a better chance cause women are already more accepting than men.

With the going out thing - it is true that if you dress and present more to blend in, you will have less issues, regardless of if you pass or not.

interesting, in a good way of course ! I just ment it showed you had put a lot of thought into your post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Klaire Larnia

In a good or a bad way???

With regards to society being more or less run by women. My basis for this is that women are generally more social as people than men. They talk more, are more open and intimate. They share ideas and develop them. A lot of women will also plant seeds of ideas into men to let them grow as if the original idea came from them. A quite word here and there.

I'm not sure if I agree, that women RUN society, because they are more social. I do however concede, that society would probably be vastly improved if MEN were more SOCIAL.

Do not forget we are treading in THEIR world, they are already in the male world by and large (both work, job and socially). So acceptance of what we do must really come from women, if they accept it the society will start to.

It sounds like you may see a super secret consperacy of women who run the word ?


Klaire

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How about it GG's ! Is there a secret society of women out there who run the world ?

Kelly

I understand and agree. I don't like to be judged by those that wear those mini-skirts and end up looking like hookers. I like to dress my age and blend in.

Have CSs really been caught doing that in dressing rooms?I wont deny, I'm a fetish dresser, but thats a line that never needs to be crossed. I like to look little ****ty, but as a hetero guy, thats what I'm attracted to. My GF is the only one who sees me that way so I hope I'm not hurting anybody

[QUOTE=Kelly DeWinter;2334261]


How about it GG's ! Is there a secret society of women out there who run the world ?


well they do say that behind every great man is an even greater woman :heehee:

:hugs:Sophie

I think it all comes down to what you do in private vs. what you do in public... if you´re not hurting or disrespecting other people, or making them uncomfortable, or being dishonest, then it´s fine...

I am not sure that men caught masturbating, or leaving their mess behind, in women's dressing rooms are real CD's. Sounds more like sexual perverts that need to get off in public and semi-public venues, whether they like to dress or not. We have no control over them, just like the random street flashers. Regarding dressing appropriately at home?? You can dress any way you want at home. Go for it and enjoy it to its fullest.

Regarding dressing appropriately when out. I see that as a form of censorship when others decide how one should dress. It is a form of freedom of speech and I definitely do not want someone telling me what and what not I can or should wear. I am an adult and will wear what I want and will suffer the consequences of my actions. I always feel that the bad dressers just makes the rest of us good dressers that much more acceptable to others. Like a relief from a bad storm. The general public needs to see us in our complete range, because we come in so many different shoes, sizes and decorations, just like the rest of "normal" society. Some are good and others not. That is how they will get to understand us better, realizing that we cover the spectrum just like every other human group does, straight, gay, old young, "normal" and weird, whatever.

Just like in every other part of society, if one does not like what they see or hear, then they should try to avoid the type of situation where they may encounter it. If they can't all the time, that is where tolerance of others comes into play. Tolerate it as long as it is not threatening to the person. They don't have to accept it, nor us. They just do not have any right to ban us. We have as much right to be there as they do as long as we follow the law.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AllieSF

I am not sure that men caught masturbating, or leaving their mess behind, in women's dressing rooms are real CD's. Sounds more like sexual perverts that need to get off in public and semi-public venues, whether they like to dress or not. We have no control over them, just like the random street flashers. Regarding dressing appropriately at home?? You can dress any way you want at home. Go for it and enjoy it to its fullest.

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I agree. Or they´re CDs, but they´re not any more common in the general CD population than in the general "mainstream" male population. There´s many men out there who do things like that, or worse, without it involving crossdressing in any way - like the flashers, or the men who harass women on the street, etc.

Yeah but being judgmental is what women do best!! And its fun! Lol

Yes Karren, you should know!!!:tongueout...Billijo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AllieSF

Regarding dressing appropriately when out. I see that as a form of censorship when others decide how one should dress. It is a form of freedom of speech and I definitely do not want someone telling me what and what not I can or should wear.

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A very intersting perspective Allie. But seriously, I think we need to consider the larger picture that I attempted to portray. That in this day and age, where acceptance is starting to pick up some steam, do we really need people in our community to behave and present in such a manner to make things more difficult for those who may be struggling with blending/passing/acceptance on a full-time basis? It's not all about the individual all the time.

That said, mine is simply an opinion and I choose to conduct myself appropriately in both manner and presentation. The fact I express this as my opinion is not censorship in the least bit. People are free to do what they wish.

is there a space for old sissy in here lol

Quote:

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So acceptance of what we do must really come from women, if they accept it the society will start to.


If that is the case, the TG folks might have a better chance cause women are already more accepting than men.

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Women in general may be more accepting and understanding of CDers
But most wives and SOs tend to take a dim view of their men CDing

Sara Jessica: I am like you and dress to blend, fit in, and in a style that I like which also represents what I enjoy seeing others wear. My previous statements in this thread and in many others has been consistent, and I do have a very broad view of what I am saying about censorship, and the dress as I recommend or say point of view. If someone tells you specifically that you should not wear dresses or tighter fitting slacks, which by the way you look terrific in, how would you feel if their true reason is that it is their honest opinion that you may not be supporting "our" community by dressing appropriately? They are censoring/restricting your freedom to dress how you feel is right for you.

I don't necessarily like how some of us here and out on the real world dress. I will also probably not associate with them in most circumstances, because, even though they may be (and I do not know that they are) the greatest persons on earth, I would feel very uncomfortable being with them. I am also not into fetish dressing, but sexy, yes, when I feel like it. But, and here is the point, what is good and acceptable for one is not necessarily acceptable to others. Who gets to draw that fuzzy line in the sand where by we separate acceptable and good for out community or not? I am not qualified. Who is? What really does make us a great country is our freedoms to do as we please as long as we do not break any laws. That includes the freedom of speech and expression which our troops are defending. We are continually looking for that freedom here on this site to be ourselves and to present ourselves as we want to do from dressing our age, to sissy dressing, to hot and torrid dressing, to everyone else along that dressing and presentation spectrum.

So, when I read posts strongly stating that we "should" dress to fit in, or be more pro-active in our cause, or, using your words hopefully not taken out of context, to not "behave" in a manner that is detrimental to our overall cause, my hot button/pet peeve button goes off to defend our right to be who we want to be. We just need to learn how to live with some of the harder to accept side effects of having our freedoms. I always say that all of us in our many forms and presentations actually do help us move our cause forward. I truly believe that. We are definitely not a homogeneous group. So, why should we only depict ourselves as that if we are not. Is that not some type of false advertising or not presenting the complete picture? The "on the edge part" of us is very small compared to larger part where most of us reside or fit in, and I know that us in the larger part of that spectrum bell curve will eventually win the day reaping benefits for ourselves and all others.

:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AvidFan

Have CSs really been caught doing that in dressing rooms?I wont deny, I'm a fetish dresser, but thats a line that never needs to be crossed. I like to look little ****ty, but as a hetero guy, thats what I'm attracted to. My GF is the only one who sees me that way so I hope I'm not hurting anybody

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Here here!

Allie, I get where you are coming from, trust me. I guess all I am saying is that I try to be an example. Nothing more, nothing less. If someone wishes to take to heart where my motivations are, that's great. If not, who am I to try to change their mind. But perhaps if someone is on the fence as to how to present, say for their first time out, they can consider my POV if they wish.

Think about the percentage of our community that goes out. Take it a step further and consider those who go out to 100% mainstream venues. Those who do are who I speak to and chances are excellent they are already in line with how I happen to present and behave.

But it's all good if someone who happens to be a fetish dresser (as you describe) who might be contemplating some sort of "shock outing" were to reconsider if they happen to read my words about regard for the big picture.

My philosophy in a nutshell is rooted in the fact that I have dear friends in the throes of transition and I would never do anything to hurt their challenging cause.

I do find myself agreeing with the OP. But that is easy for me to do, as I am still a closet dresser.

I actually do think like you Sara and in most situations would prefer that people dress reasonably in a very generous range. But I hardly ever say that out of respect for individual freedoms and for the diversity of the whole thing. Plus, sometimes when I "feel like a nut", I enjoy their presence and company at certain venues. We all have a fun time together. But for mainstream outings, which are most of mine, I hang with people with similar tastes and personalities, just like I would do in drab (my other "real" life). However, on this site, it doesn't take much for the peer pressure to build up when the "do it like me" crowd gets going. I am also sensitive to the TS issues of trying to survive in the real world. I was dating a TS who passed this last year. I am still not sure if it was from natural or self inflicted causes. She was having a very hard time of it all. Not so much the public non-acceptance of her, but rather more family issues, as they had abandoned her (wife, daughter and son) after initially supporting her. In fact, I believe that dressing to fit in versus dressing how you want has very little effect on the overall process that will lead to general acceptance of "us", CD's, TV's or TS's, in the short or long term.

Anyway, it was a nice conversation with you on this topic. Now back to our regular programing!