Starting to get a little angry with the attitudes out there.

I am angry with the world at large for all the BS that CD'ers put up with. Not just crossdressers, but the LGBT community as a whole.

I am dreading my return to work. I am dreading the idea of spending 8 hours a day with people who are, for the most part, intolerant of anyone who varies from the norm just a little bit. Loathing the thought of not being able to wear nail polish, a nice necklace, or whatever kind of earring I want.

Maybe this is Karma. For up until a year ago, I was tossing in my ignorant a$$ comments with the rest of them, trying to hide how I truly felt. Now I'm seeing the world from the other "side". If there really are sides in this. <sigh> :sad:

All comments are welcome.

I hear you. I have an ex-girlfriend who is quite convinced that I'm gay just because I happen to like women's shoes. After we broke up her mom decided to unload and also decided to throw in that she has gay friends who think I'm one of them just because I like the shoes. Yeah, sure. After all, any guy who wears women's shoes, likes theater, and has his ears pierced must be attracted to other men :rolleyes:. Sure, I probably fit many stereotypes, but I really don't find other guys attractive in any way.

I wonder if there are some that are driven over the tipping point to transition to female so they can wear what they want without the stupid "masculine anxiety" that is pandemic to this society.

Johanna

Hey Jay;
Tolerance in the middle of Canada seems like the same thing in central Ohio and the deep south. A red neck is a red neck no matter where you live. Sorry to all of the tolerant red necks out there, all 2 of you......., just joking......, maybe.:D I have found that when a conversation is going in a direction that I feel is inapropriate to me I either try to turn the conversation, say nothing, or get up and leave for a while.:brolleyes: Luckily my co workers, to an extant, are a tolerant bunch and not the general biggots found in most rural areas of OH. Since almost everyone I know or work with knows I have 2 places I call home, Lake county Ohio my birth place and home for my first 11 years, plus Washington state for Jr high and high school years, they know and see me as a liberal with mild conservative practices. Which actually means that I practice what I preach and when I see something wrong I don't pound on the walls, have a sit-in, or scream about the inadequacies of our modern society, I just try to work within the rules to affect or change what I find to be wrong. I have always been a bit of a contradiction anyway. I guess being a crossdresser fits for me, male outside and female tendencies inside.:heehee:
I would tell you to be tolerant of those who are so closed minded or simple minded to actually think outside of their bias biggoted ways. Just know that there is a very large community of tolerant and like minded people in the world.:love: This forum is a fine example of what a bright future our world can have and is found here in these posts every day.:hugs: Good luck and just think of those biggots as mere sheep stuck in the "Tar pit" of the here and now. They will eventually become extinct and I can only hope that all of us are still around to see it happen. The worm turns my friend.

DaniPat

Well come live with my wife for a while.... Ms don't get to girlie or I'll get pissed!! Compared to her, work is like a haven of acceptance! Lol.

Reminds me I need to trim my finger nails!!

Arghhh! Not another intolerance thread...I just cannot tolerate them ;)

"Proud member of the National Sarcsm Society... Like we need your support!!"

Love your signature Karen. Jay cold usehelp from the "Sarcasm Society" with those red necks where he lives. Red necks never understand sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by DaniPat

...Good luck and just think of those biggots as mere sheep stuck in the "Tar pit" of the here and now. They will eventually become extinct and I can only hope that all of us are still around to see it happen. The worm turns my friend.

DaniPat

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I like that analogy. A lot. :)

And you are right, DaniPat. There are tolerant folks out there. Somewhere. :) And there is the forum. Thank the goddess for this forum, and the good folk that participate in it.

It's frustrating, to be sure, but unfortunately such deeply ingrained prejudices take generations to overcome. It's been well over half a century since Brown vs. Board of Education and since Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat, and 47 years since the March on Washington, and while no one can deny the great difference in the way African-Americans are perceived and treated now vs. then, there is still lingering racial bigotry in the U.S.; some overt, most covert; sometimes still spouted and expressed in unguarded moments among even people who seem on the surface to be accepting and tolerant.

The active struggle for gay rights and tolerance is considerably younger; that for trans people even more recent. Though things change slowly, it's obvious that due to more such people having the courage to be "out," many kids grow up with friends who are LGBT, and more people know someone of that ilk personally through work or family members. Ignorance is often born of unfamiliarity -- the fear of the unknown. The more contact people have with us, the more likely they are to see it as no big deal.

My foray into transitioning and working as a woman was, to be sure, ill-advised and didn't work out for me personally. But I am proud of having had in those years, I believe, a positive effect on many people. One notable example was my first such job, at which it was known that I was TG. The office manager, a 50-ish man from a rural area of Florida, was initially standoffish with me in person, and hostile behind my back. (I was told that initially he often referred to me as "it" when I was out of earshot.) But I refused to be cowed, and finding that he and I shared similar senses of humor, used that humor and, coupled with a good work ethic, won him over. He warmed to me and became one of my biggest allies, and when I left that job, he was sorry to see me go, and wrote for me a glowing letter of recommendation. I like to think that the next time someone disses T-folk in his presence, he'd be more likely to say, "You know, I had such a person on my staff once, and she was one of the nicest, hardest-working employees I ever had."

That's how you change things -- one heart, one mind, one person at a time. Being "out" or activist isn't for everyone, but to those who are, thank you. You may only "convert" a few souls, but their newfound acceptance will spread and multiply. It doesn't happen overnight, nor is it an easy road. But, things WILL get better.

There are always goingto be intolerant tw@s. It's not karma, because if this was about you joining in previously, then where is their feted punishment? Do realise, hon, that they will all have things in their closet they would be mortified if other people found out about. He's a wife-beater, she slaps her husband around too, he's having trouble in the trouser department of a night time and she leaks a little more than she used to when she laughs etc. You're doing the right thing and they are in the wrong. You're way braver than me and my platitudes and almost indiscernible touches like the slightly longer hair, for doing what you're doing, so keep it up, babe. You rock
x

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Originally Posted by JohannaH

I wonder if there are some that are driven over the tipping point to transition to female so they can wear what they want without the stupid "masculinity anxiety" that is pandemic to this society.

Johanna

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Thank you for mentioning "masculine anxiety". I see that I have always noticed that, and hated it... men are so fragile and on edge with anything! Makes one want to run away and be a girl...!

There are always some that will never accept difference or change and you will never change that but for most ordinary people once they have got over the shock they start to be indifferent about it .

You can't change the world Hon. What you CAN do is get in touch with yourself and your feelings, take ownership of who you are and enjoy it. If others cannot appreciate that, it's their loss I figure.:)

I think the best thing to do is to be the change you wish to see in the world. You'll have to deal with the accompanying adversity, but you can't expect anything to change unless you are willing to live it yourself. Plus, no matter what anybody does or says against you, you will always have an unmatched dignity that nobody can touch, and you just might influence and inspire souls along the way, whether your impact is minimal or monumental. If you submit to a lesser way of being then you will end up no better than the people you are criticizing. Don't end up with regret, stand tall and do what you know is right. Don't worry about tripping over some speed-bumps, it'll happen, that's life.

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Originally Posted by JohannaH

I wonder if there are some that are driven over the tipping point to transition to female so they can wear what they want without the stupid "masculinity anxiety" that is pandemic to this society.

Johanna

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Oh without doubt that happens.

Don't you know that along with white males, we are the only ones in this country that it's still okay to make fun of?

From my observations it seems that when the GLBT community is fighting for causes they feel important crossdressers are rarely part of those fighting. I personally do not give the whole GLBT thing much thought these days but I will suggest to you that instead of posting a rant (with a picture of your legs I might add) you might muster the strength and go out into the real world and live your life as you see fit. If you have confidence and respect for yourself you will be doing good for CDs.

Finally I am no fan of the gender F__K thing. Ya want to present a man then it is best to present a man that is what society expects. Conversly when you present a woman it is best to present a typical woman.

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Originally Posted by Shari

Don't you know that along with white males, we are the only ones in this country that it's still okay to make fun of?

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Touché! So I'm both of the 2 things that are ok to make fun of =( That's fun *sigh*

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Originally Posted by Denise Rhodes

What you CAN do is get in touch with yourself and your feelings, take ownership of who you are and enjoy it.:)

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Originally Posted by spotlessMind

I think the best thing to do is to be the change you wish to see in the world..

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very true.... if it's ment to be it's up to me

I struggled with this issue for much of my life .... and now don't give much of a @#$% what others think of me or my lifestyle. I wish I could have achieved this state of mind earlier. Best of luck to you, sister

Just look at the bright side of things. I could still be a male narrow-minded oaf making fun of crossdressers and transgendered individuals, and hating my life. I will live with the way people think of us rather than to be suicidal.

I think crime would go down and people would be more productive if people were able to come to terms with their gender identity.

Johanna

I thank you folks for some very thoughtful responses, and the support.

I have no plan (yet), but I'm very curious to see where this will go.

Jay Cee

I hear myself saying the same intolerant rubbish to my mates and I hate myself even as the words are coming out. Peer pressure and the urge to deflect negative attention are the most powerful forces in the universe. Gravity ain't even close!

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Ya want to present a man then it is best to present a man that is what society expects. Conversly when you present a woman it is best to present a typical woman.

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O.o

WHAT???!!!

This from a male dressed as a woman standing beside a motorcycle, at what looks like a motorcycle rally.

You do know that women and motorcycles DID NOT MIX until maybe 40 years ago? The thought of a woman riding a motorcycle was foreboden except for "those women".

My point being; just what is a "typical" male, and "typical" female?

As far as joining the LGBT things....have you tried? My understanding is the intolerance in those groups is just about as bad for the most part. If we are to attend we are to "blend in" something that is really getting old with me. I am sick and tired of people telling other people how to look, how to "blend in".

What is the purpose of blending in? I thought people strived for individuality, yet even here there is the press to blend in.

The only reason I could think for blending in is to avoid snide, or jealous, or catty comments. LOUSY REASON, and one that would not be necessary if LESS people blended in.

I am not talking about clownish looking mind you, but just because the majority of women wear dull styles, or jeans predominately, does not mean we need to limit ourselves to that lousy standard.

By the way. Proud gender F&*er here.

If people want to "celebrate diversity" as much as they keep saying, then let's celebrate ALL KINDS of diversity, which would also include us, of course.

Jay Cee, perhaps you ought to emigrate to NZ.
People here are more laid back.

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Originally Posted by clayfish

Jay Cee, perhaps you ought to emigrate to NZ.
People here are more laid back.

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Tempting thought - I hear it's beautiful there. Might check it and Australia out in a future vacation.

There is no "promised land". There is only now... I have been acting since I left school, probably before... every situation requires an act... it is just about fitting the right act to the right situation... Kaz is good at acting in male situations... actually, it's kind if fun!

I hear you. I too have been guilty of making jokes trying to cover up who I really am. I try not to do it anymore. Initially I was surprised by the comments and looks I received from members of the LGBT community, I am not now. I suppose education is going to take time.

Intolerance... yes, I'm intolerant of it ;-P

While I'm not "out", I'm definitely 'different'. The way I dress and act is not typical 'Male" behavior, but it's very typical 'Me". But it's taken a very long time to get even this far. I try to be true to who I am, and not be too sensitive about others comments and looks, though I get them.

Hating the world will not change anything. It will only gnaw at your spirit. You cannot directly control or change how others think and feel. You can usually control how you react to the hate, bigotry and ignorance. If you give in to it, they win.

Unfortunately, there will always be hateful people in the world. Fortunately, they are vastly out numbered by those who are tolerant or indifferent at the worse, and accepting and supportive at the best. Don't let the few ruin it for you and darken you heart.

Think of how fortunate you are that you don't think like all those people, that your own situation has allowed you to see beyond the common prejudices. I feel sorry for all the intolerant people out there.

Wonderful advice and stories. Thank you all.

Zoe, your attitude reminds me a lot of my gf - she has been amazingly supportive during my recent path of discovery of myself.

I think that everyone who secretly CD's or is in the closet for any reason will try to fit in the normal crowd (if that's what you want to call normal) by slamming the community they secretly belong to. I did it all the time, I often felt like I've "eaten my young" as I casually agreed with those that are so bloody intolerant of others.
Lately though, I've been trying to be more defensive. I'll ask why would you care what so and so does? As long as nobody gets hurt who gives a damn? I cannot outright try to educate the rednecks I work with, I'm already under suspicion. Knowledge of such activities would verify their suspicions and give them more reason to exile me from their clique. Big loss there.
I asked someone once why they felt so offended by homosexuals. Who do they hurt? There are a few openly gay people at my workplace and they are snickered at behind their backs etc... This person only replied "because it ain't natural". Whatever. Stupid logic for stupid people.

Ginger

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Originally Posted by Seamed Nylons

My grandfather once told me, and lo and behold these many years later...it is THE TRUTH.

"Sonny boy, if you go through life and at the end of it can count your friends...true blue friends on one hand...consider yourself VERY lucky. Even more lucky if you can count your BEST friends on 2 fingers of that hand....or even one."

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I love your grandfather's wisdom. And how he dealt with your CD'ing at such an early age... amazingly enlightened.

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Originally Posted by Seamed Nylons

I had been found by my Southern Baptist grandmother wearing her girdle and stockings and saying hello with "Mary Thumb and her four sisters"....(Ejaculating.)

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In other words, Rosie Palm and her five sisters!

why let it bother ya? do you really think that these people will loose sleep for making fun of CDs/whatever else you may call us? NOPE they wont.. just because we wear delicates doesnt mean we should have delicate skin.. TOUGHEN UP ALREADY!!!


I AM A GENDER F*CK << i didnt even know what this meant till yesterday.. my voice is so low that i could never dream of trying to feminize my voice.. so i dress the way i do and talk the way i talk and if people dont like it.. KISS MY *SS :) cuz i wont loose sleep over you falling over backwards from laughing at me

i'm tired of trying to fit in, in any group that is. i give up.. i even see little cliques on this forum as well.. pretty disturbing actually.

I want to just counter this by saying there are places where being out is not always negative. I have a very wonderful work and family and all my friends are positive about me. I never have a negative experience when I am out and pretty much am left alone.

I am thinking it is karma rewards for putting up with a life time of self deprecation.

Comment and opinion below... look out!

I would assume it is harder for a crossdresser as you all have both sides of your life and have or want to keep them. Most people do not like uncertainty and seeing someone who cross gender lines constantly is confusing to those just learning about trans issues. For me it was a clean break transitioning male to female so it helped in my mind avoid confusion. I hope one day our struggles and strides can be shared with you.

All I have to say, is that I can't wait until Karma catches up with those bigoted narow minded A$$HOLE$ !

My officemate told me that he could "understand why someone would murder a crossdresser." I don't personally have enough tolerance to try and talk sense to someone like him. I immediately asked to move to another office, when I told my manager what he said I was given a shrug -- like I was being too sensitive.

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Originally Posted by unclejoann

My officemate told me that he could "understand why someone would murder a crossdresser." I don't personally have enough tolerance to try and talk sense to someone like him. I immediately asked to move to another office, when I told my manager what he said I was given a shrug -- like I was being too sensitive.

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Ah but you see you are not giving context. I could also see why someone would murder a crossdresser. I wouldn't ever condone it but I can understand the twisted mind of someone unstable enough to kill another human being.

To me that sounds like it could have been a stimulating conversation. Now if they would have said "I can see myself killing a crossdresser" I would have got up and went to my manager then HR and would have pushed to have that person reprimanded under california equal rights laws preventing harassment.

Without context, I have to also shrug. This brings up a thought I have that we do sometimes are overly sensitive to the perceived threat. We would rather assume the worse than take the chance that it is not as bad as we think.

If I would have never just taken the risk, I would still be cowering at the thought that me coming out would get me fired and lose all my friends and family.

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Originally Posted by Seamed Nylons

You answered your own querry Ginger! In an oblique round-about kind of way.

Here's what I think of cliques. In one word.

Ostentatious.

Work environments are just that. Work environments. Not work cliques. The sooner I separated myself from these sorts of gatherings, the sooner I felt more substantiated. Who gives a rat's ass what other people think about other people...supermarket rags and newspapers, and neighborhoods are full of this garbage.

Look. Celebrities come under horrible scrutiny...and guess what? It passes...and the negative limelight passes on to the next unfortunate millionaire...billionaire...common folks too, in every imaginable scenario...and I dare say again. Who gives a rat's ass?!?

If you engage in backbiting you're going to get bit on the behind...hard. Sooner or later.

My suggestion is to just do your job to the best of your ability and don't get involved in 'Office Gossip". Even if it's about another poor soul, and you overhear it, it's very negative and weather it's true or not, hearing snide remarks and worse, taking part in the laughter on your part, will bias you against that person being slammed to the point that the gossipers poison will be your poison...and that's a no win situation.

Poison in any form is just that...

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"Ostentatious?" I dunno, what's that?

Anyway as I said, no longer do I participate in the activity of bashing others. I sit alone for the most part, either by my choice or theirs. Seems they are fine with me when I talk to them alone, but as a group there are always snide remarks along with the "knowing" looks and smirks going my way.

I'm above that. I don't give a rats @ss what they think anymore. If I weren't married (and closeted) I would openly go forth and demonstrate what it is to be a crossdresser. I would challenge any of them to say boo. However, I think my wife might take exception to such exposure and may be horribly embarrassed by my public femininity.

Ginger

I am caring less and less what others think. I have to deal with the construction mindset nowadays (oh, joy), but I'm wearing studs in my ears, clear nail polish, and girl jeans. If they have something to say about it, I haven't heard the comments. I'm not running with the "in-crowd", but then again, who cares.

Thank you, girls! I appreciate your perspectives. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Xandria

I AM A GENDER F*CK << i didnt even know what this meant till yesterday.. my voice is so low that i could never dream of trying to feminize my voice.. so i dress the way i do and talk the way i talk and if people dont like it.. KISS MY *SS :) cuz i wont loose sleep over you falling over backwards from laughing at me

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I guess you might be a second bass the same way as I am - able to sing down C below the bass staff and lower. We could be en femme [maybe as Dolly Parton] and sing a Johnny Cash song [e.g., Rings of Fire] at the local karaoke bar!

You do look very nice in your pictures.

Johanna

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Originally Posted by Jay Cee

I am angry with the world at large for all the BS that CD'ers put up with. Not just crossdressers, but the LGBT community as a whole. .

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I don’t get BS from society, I’m stealth. What does piss me off is the BS I get INSIDE the LGBT. From people who are supposed to have an understanding, even just a slight, in regards to what I and others put up with on a daily basis to protect ourselves and stay stealth and stay safe and stay alive. The hatred I had for myself, the loneliness and lowness. It is something that will probably never change because some people are so obsessed with their own path they are ignorant to the world around them, and think the world revolves around them. Asking me things like “why would you want to be a man” or “what made you think you felt like a man” or “you have no idea how much I would want your body, why are you destroying it” is the lowest form of ignorance I have ever experienced. I never hear this from the rest of society, which is why I prefer being stealth. I could go on but I cba tbh. Some people will never *get* it. Not even some TS people; clearly, from the PM I received only an hour ago.

I hope others don't experience same/ similar. It makes you feel even more disconnected from the "trans community" and makes you wonder why you even bother sticking around on sites like this. But then again, someone out there might need my help.

I just hope for future generations, whether it be in the LGBT or outside, that people can just get a grip.

I actually could care less what you call me as I am unscathed by others opinions of me. I am a woman and a happy woman at that, and live my life as such 24/7. In your eyes am I transsexual, gay, lesbian, heterosexual, or some other label? Maybe I am all or maybe I am none. Nevertheless, I live my life to be happy and if that bothers you, that's your issue and problem not mine.

We need to quit worrying about others. Trust me most people could care less how you present yourself or what your gender is or your sexual orientation. They are too busy living their lives. You live yours as you see fit.

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Originally Posted by erickka

All I have to say, is that I can't wait until Karma catches up with those bigoted narow minded A$$HOLE$ !

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One day the world leaders will all be crossdressers and then will we get our revenge. :devil: