Is this all just a fantasy?

About a month ago my wife said she watched Private Practice and there was a husband who was closeted gay, and also married with a child, apparently happy with gay partner and lifestyle and always miserable at home. The wife approached him and asked if he would be happier on his own to live the life he really wanted instead of a lie. Well my wife asked me if I would be a happier person on my own being whatever it is I want to be, that maybe being able to crossdress would make me happier because basically I am miserable around the house with her and the kids. Let me preface by stating that when we went to therapy for me being a cross dresser the only reason we didn’t separate is my wife and therapist agreed to boundaries that I would only be allowed bra and panty, no dressing up going out, makeup, etc Well as you can see from my pick I love to dress as a woman my dream is to go out dressed as Jessica. I started to answer my wife if I would be happier by saying I didn’t know, Maybe I should get totally done up and go out as Jessica to see what it is like and to see if that would make me happy, before I ended my sentence she got upset and said you remember the boundaries right, no more than bras' and panties( and she is not even ok with that, doesn’t approve of any of it matter of fact said would have never married me if she had know) she was really persistent about wanting to know if I wanted to move out and be on my own, so I asked if she was seeing someone, her comment was that she hadn’t been looking, and left it at that, I asked if she would like to find a man she said she didn’t have the time nor the desire after dealing with me and my issues. Well new years eve came and she said 2011 she was ready to make some changes to be happier, she said I needed to find my happy place wherever that is and made some comment about maybe I would like to be with a man(talk about left field). All this time I don’t know how to answer her because I often wonder if this is all just a fantasy, I love to dress, I don’t know how to do makeup that well, my pics were from professional photographer, I have never gone out 100% as Jessica, I am a little bi curious. Just curious on everyone’s thoughts. I sometime wish I was on my onw to dress as I would like mostly femme, to be able to go out as Jessica, just to enjoy my femme side. I just cant help to think that if I did jump and leave and the opposite happened then I would be left with no family and never persue being Jessica. Not sure just what to do Sorry if I rambled trying to fit allot in without loosing you.

Jessica,

Short answer is that your wife seems to know you more than you do. She knows what you really want, and it doesn't seem to be her. Wives always know when they're "second place" in our lives. I think you need to look inside yourself and wonder what would make you truly happy. By the way, you do realize that you can be bi-curious without the dressing, right? You don't need to find a convenient "excuse" for it.

Kathi

Sounds like you agreed to terms you can't live with.

Hi Kathy, that is what I am not sure of, would I be truely happy dressing anytime I wanted presenting more often as Jessica or is it just a huge fantasy, I read about you and other girls going on flights, out dressed to events, to the makeup store to the local bank etc and I want to do that but I just feel trapped, that in order for me to evevn attempt all of that with my wifes aproval would never happen, she basically said if I wanted more that the boundaries and if that would make me happy in life then I would have to do it separated from the family, and thats where i get stuck because I dont know if I would enjoy it more until I experience it I am in a catch 22. About being bi you right I think more about the possibility of being with say a *******

Nicole I never agreed to the terms the therapist and wife presented this to me as the only way my wife would stay,

Then you, Jessica, are at a crossroads. One way leads to possible happiness - a life where you can do what you want, free of any constraints - but also free of your wife and family.

The other way is the way you're living right now. You have to ask yourself if it is worth losing everything you now have for possible happiness.

And again, stop making excuses. If you're bi, then you're bi. It doesn't make it any different if you're with a ******* or a genetic male. I know you don't want to look at that part of your life - whether you're "The 'G' word" or not - but wanting to be with a man is wanting to be with a man, no matter how it - and they - are packaged.

So, decision time, Jess! Make a good one!

Kathi

thanks Kathi

in my opinion i think that not being able to dress the way you want for an extended period of time has probably left you with alot of pent up urges to do just that. some of us want to dress all day every day, some of us only dress on occasion, some like to convincingly portray the role of a woman, and some like to look like a man in womans clothes. the one thing we all have in common though is that we are what we are and we like what we like not by choice but by an act of nature.

in hindsight you probably should of been open with your wife about this before you got married. yes i know theres the fear of not being accepted to hold you back, but if someone doesnt accept you then are they truely the one you want to spend your life with. maybe cross dressing isnt a big enough part of your life for you to make life altering decisions based on it. thats really something youll have to figure out for yourself as none of us here can really say to leave your wife and kids or to stay with them.

maybe you could use a personal vacation to see just how into this you are? im not sure its a sensitive issue.

i myself once went through a similar bi-curious stage. where i wondered hey maybe im attracted to men and thats why i want to look like a woman. i even experimented with a gay friend of mine just to see, then i realized that simply wasnt the case. in fact i am so unattracted to men that the only time i find myself attractive and thus am happy is when i look like a woman.

I'd suggest going to a counselor for yourself first. If, after a lengthy and honest self appraisal to decide where your marriage fits in your priorities. If its important to you, then you need to have a second series of counseling sessions with your wife to work out a balance that is both respectful to her and of you.

As for the sexual curiosity, as Kathy says, bi is bi, CD is CD. One doesn't necessarily influence the other. that's something you can discuss with your therapist in private, but my hunch is that its not particularly important to you, or frankly, you'd have done it by now.

Actually, we are the only real part of it all. The rest is what the fantasy is.:)

Jessica, it sounds like,similar to myself, that crossdressing is one cog in the wheel of an un-happy marriage. If your wife is ready to let you go so "you can be happy" it seems she would also be happier. Crossdressing is a very conveinient excuse to use so that blame for a problem marriage is dumped totally on the husband. Maybe try going out and spreading your wings alittle before you leave and test the waters. Whats the worst reaction you could get from her?, she tells you to leave. Seems you may already be at that point.

I would agree that some therapy sessions by yourself would be a very good idea. There seems to be a lot of confusion and pent up frustration. This is a serious choice and should not be made alone, nor in a state of confusion/frustration. Your household is clearly in an uproar, and that's not a good environment in which to make a serious decision.

just my 2 cents.

tina

My experience with people making ultimatums is that they want you to fail. That way they can pass the blame for what ever happens off onto you. The whole bra and panties but not stockings or slips ("Wear a slip and you're outta here, pal!!!") just seems like the sort of arbitrary line in the sand that she feels you will eventually cross and then she's off the hook. My guess is that if you don't cross the line she'll eventually move it until it's intolerable for you. Maybe it already is and you haven't accepted it yet. It sounds like she has already decided that it's intolerable for her. To be honest, she has every right to find it intolerable. That would be true even if she knew about your CDing before your marriage. People change. It sucks, get used to it.

If your relationship eventually breaks up over this, it's not the end of the world. My divorce from my first wife was devastating to me (mostly because it wasn't my idea) but it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. I see her today at birthdays and holiday family get togethers and a wave of joy comes over me that we are not together any longer. What was I thinking?

Is it all a fantasy? There is no way of knowing what might happen if all the constraints were removed. The only reasonable thing you can do is decide if you can tolerate the situation you're in and go from there.

Thanks Evildawn, I agree I should have been open then maybe I would be dressing 24/7 and happy now, I really do feel I would enjoy dressing everyday and being womanly but if I couldnt pass comfortably in public that would hider me as well, I loved the makeover I had done I would have never expected the potential to be a woman was there, I do see jessica in those pics, the personal vacation would be fine if i could without wife knowing, or just going out as Jessica but she made it clear when we talked that if I am crossing the initial boundaries she set she and the kids are leaving.

Thanks Kim, I agree I am in counseling again unknow to my wife this time, so far the therapist says I am leaning towards wanting to be able to be Jessica more and more as I get older. Part of this whole thing is I am afraid to accept things are going this way even though are very exciting. The though of dressing as Jessica and going out doing daily things is such a dream. The bi part I agree, my attraction seems to be more with ******** than a male, I personally do think I could be with a male but a ******* or another TG excites me.

Thanks Denise, I just keep thinking maybe the thought of being able to successfully be jessica in public is a fantasy. I would love to see it as a reality, but we all know how horrible society is.

Thanks Julia Ann, I think your on to something, part of me would be devistated but at the same time if she found a man that can be 100% man for her I would be happy, I wish i traveled for business or did mini vacations on my own so that I could give this a try, deep down I think I would love it the icing on the cake would be if I presented as a woman for the most part in public.

Thanks Tina I know and expecially with me not being the happiest person it is hard on the kids as well. My problem lately is that I tend to hope wife and kids go out for the evening so I can stay home and enjoy being Jessica. Its sad to say but they went out on new years eve for a little bit and wife made comments all the families were there except me. And all I could thing of is how thanksful I was that for 3 hours I could dress and enjoy being Jessica on new years eve, wish I would have gone to a part dressed but I take what I can get. as I get older the desire to dress is becoming stronger and I am becoming more selfish with my free time I love to dress

Thanks Stevie, I hate to say I think your right but I think you may be on to something. She says things like when I asked her what she wanted for Christmas this year her comment was a massage at a salon and a real man to be with for an evening following that up with because I dont want to be with her. I sometimes think we both would be so much happier apart but it tears me up inside that the kids will be sad. But then again that would only be temporary I suppose if we werent together fighting all the time they may enjoy it as well. I am curious do you go out dressed now, shave body manicure pedicure all of that????

I was going to ask, but your last post seems to have given me the answer already, and that is, it doesn't sound like you are in a happy marriage, and are just staying "for the kids."

Your wife seems to be trying to push your buttons, so you'll agree to a separation, or at least a "trial" separation.

You might want to check with a divorce lawyer, and explain what's going on, to find out where you'd stand if you did agree to a trial separation. It could help you sort your feelings. Of course, it gives your wife the same opportunities.

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[SIZE=+2][SIZE=-1]A trial separation agreement is usually limited to a relatively short period of time in the range of 60 to 90 days. It recognizes that husband and wife are living apart, but does not create a formal separation, and does not begin the 1 year clock running. The spouse who has left the marital home may return to the home at any time. The agreement provides that neither spouse will use the separation as a basis for a claim of desertion, abandonment, or constructive desertion. It does contain agreements relating to how family expenses will be paid and how children will be provided and cared for. The primary purpose of a trial separation is to allow the spouses to live apart for a relatively short period of time in order to assess the marital situation in a less stressful environment.

http://www.famia.org/d-med-ap.htm#Tr...ationAgreement[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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Why not try going to a motel for the weekend,and do your own thing, even a couple of W/Ends and see how you feel after ???

that way you can see for yourself the reality of living alone

hugs J-JAY

Hi Jessica. I have read your post and the replies several times trying to get a "feel" for your situation. Unfortunately, this is not a simple situation thus, no simple answer. I did not see anything re: how long you have been married; how long your wife has "known"; the ages of your children; your job/financial situation. IMHO these and other factors all play a role in trying to determine what is best for your family and you.

Yes, as of now, your ideas re: Jessica are, in part, fantasy. You need to evaluate the pros and cons of your choices. There is a price associated with any decision that you make. Are you willing to pay that price? The caution here is to go into any decision with your eyes open, so to speak.

One thing that seems to be missing in what I have read is any mention of any real love between you and your wife. Do either of you really want this marriage to "work"? Or is personal happiness the objective for each of you? I do not see how either of you can be happy under the current circumstances. Unfortunately, I do not see any real hope of either of you being able to accept what the other spouse needs/wants. At best, one spouse will acquiese to the other's wishes and, as a result, be resentful and unhappy.

Perhaps, you and your new counselor can reach a decision that will work for you.

I wish you the best of luck!

Thanks Donna...I would have to say we are both trying to stay for the kids, the marraige has been hit hard since she found out about the crossdressing and the thing of it is she thinks its just a bra and panty thing, seriously if she saw my pics or my wardrobe for that fact that would be the end

Thanks J-Jay I would love to do that as much as we dont spend time together she gets supicious if I am gone for too long a period, like if I am late coming home from work, she accuses me of going shopping(which 9times out of 10 I am) I tried to bring up the subject of maybe trying to go out totally femme and she cut me off and reminded me of the boundaries of no more than bra and panties

Thanks for the reply Carol, we have been married 14 years she has know for 9, we have two children 9 and 12, and were both employed. I try to evaluate the pros and cons of being Jessica and of course all of the pretty things and frills and going out enfemme are so exciting to me, being able to pass as well as a 6' 205lb cd'r can. I am not sure on the love, I think I love the though of being femme(sad to admit). I think were both scared to make a move, it would be nice to see her happy and me happy enfemme, I just have a feeling that if we divorce she will get angry and tell the whole world about Jessica, which at that point not sure if I would care, I honestly am always angry unless I am alone to dress(that is when I am happiest) but given that chance will that too get old, I dont know I have been dressing over 38 yrs guess in a way it doesnt get old just seems to be getting more intense as I get older, I think about the possibilities of going out enfemme 24/7, and thats exciting, but I am also 44 and have never gone out. A few weeks ago i put on bra panties garter hose heels slip blouse womans flared jeans and heels but no makeup and no wig and covered my blouse with my mans sweatshirt thats the closest I have come to going out.

Myself, and I'm sure most of the people here have struggled and suffered with this kind of problem to a great degree, and frankly I am about sick of it.
The lack of acceptance and understanding of people in general should not condemn me or others to being alone, or being looked down on, or being in a bad relationship, where you have to hide who you are and suppress yourself.

I get it that most people just don't understand crossdressers, but if someone doesn't understand black people, does this mean they can be racist?
If men just don't understand how women tick, does this mean they can be as misogynistic as they like?
Are people who just don't get homosexuals free to be homophobes?
Is anyone free to be small-minded and act with hatred or contempt towards people because they just don't want to accept what they are?
Obviously, no.

Many crossdressers run into the trap of having to lie to their wives or girlfriends or family about themselves, and then they can be accused of it when the truth comes out later. They are made to feel like they are terrible deceivers. But how many women would remain interested in you if you told them all about your feminine tendencies on the second date?
How many women would even consider you if they met you when you were dressed?
Virtually none.

We live in an extremely sexist society, where women are free to express many aspects of masculinity but men are definitely not free to express femininity. It's got to change.

Jessica, I wanted to start off by saying that no matter what advice/experiences are given.. it will rest solely on your shoulders as to what your future will be in respects to living out 'your dream' at the cost of a marriage..or put all away in some dark closet with a possibility of 'adapting' to a continued life of being unhappy or rekindling some lost spark to renew your marriage and live as your wife desires. To be the MAN that she wants.

You are putting a lot of thought and worries about going out dressed and passing..with a clear jealousy of those who have experienced it, which is understandable but you have other things to solve before that should be in the forefront. Wishing you had a job that includes traveling or able to get away from family so you can experience more of Jessica, to include going out. You even sacrificed an evening that normally is celebrated with family so you can grab 3 hours of satisfaction.

What would happen if your wife learned of the reason you stayed home? What if you did travel or spend a weekend in a hotel and your wife found out the reason?

Will the result of your gratification be worth the emotional explosion that is sure to come from her..and she will gladly share her feelings with family/friends and the court system (normally not a factor for the courts unless it affects children negativelly but sure is embarrassing).

And who knows what is in her mind for the new year...has she finally come to terms that she does need a MAN to satisfy her in the manner she desires..and then what is the next step for her?

Okay, I"ll stop with the what ifs..

Maybe you need to just ask yourself, can you give it all up? Even the boundaries that are set..and be the manly man that she married? Until death do you part??????

Given what you have said, it doesn't seem she is happy with the boundaries anyway. So maybe you need to come to terms on what you want or willing to accept.. dressing = no wife or no dressing = wife

If dressing is the only issues with the marriage, it is surprising.. in some cases, it is only a part of muliple issues. Eitherway, they can be worked on and maybe come to a happy resoluion..or end a marriage. Good luck on your future.

Marissa

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Originally Posted by laceyjessica

I sometimes think we both would be so much happier apart but it tears me up inside that the kids will be sad. But then again that would only be temporary I suppose if we werent together fighting all the time they may enjoy it as well. I am curious do you go out dressed now, shave body manicure pedicure all of that????

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My kids told me after we split up that they were so much happier with us apart. Even though my wife and I didn't yell and scream at each other all the time, there was always an oppressive air of hostility between us that negatively affected the children. I ended up with custody of the kids since my wife went back to drugs and drinking after the divorce. So I got to be a single "mom" for a few years. I should mention that CDing had nothing to do with our problems. She never knew and I didn't do it much while we were married. My current wife only has two request concerning my dressing - that I don't go out where people we know could clock me and that the the kids don't know about it. I think those are reasonable requests and I agree with them. In fact, even though I could go out in some other town and she has even offered to go with me, I don't have any inclination to go out at all. It would be quite a spectacle if I did since I'm not the usual CDer. I shave head to toe, underdress, paint my toenails etc. My wife encourages me and she buys me girly things. But I keep it at home with her.

As far a being bi-curious goes. I'm not attracted to males or tgirls in any mode (anymore) but I do see GGs all the time that strike my fancy. I'll tell you what I do: nothing. And that's the way it's going to be as long as I'm commited to a monogamous relationship.

I was all ready to type how I can see your wife's point but honestly I can't. This sounds like a lack of communication and compromise on both ends.

If I were married and my husband admitted after years he wanted to cross dress or to transition, I would accept it but I would be worried he would not want me anymore. I'm a sucker for monogamy. One thing I would do is talk it out and not give ultimatums. The only thing I can see is the feeling of betrayal for not confiding that part of their life form the start.

Jessica,

Where to start? It seems the content of this thread touched on quite a bit of stuff. I guess the common element is “more Jessica time”. So, with that.

Understand that if you want to keep your family together, it will take some time before you can expect more Jessica time. You need to be patient.

Therapy by yourself is a good start. Make sure the therapist is experienced with transgendered people. It makes a world of difference. Also, any therapist worth anything will never tell you what to do. If they do, dump them and find another. They should only guide you by spelling out options and possible outcomes and by informing you what is normal through their experience.

Next, ask yourself. Do you love your wife? Take the issues, arguments and negative feelings about cross dressing off the table and answer that question. Don’t let your anger towards her for not letting you dress obstruct the true answer to that question. If the answer is yes, then you need to find out if she still loves you. If so, then it is up to you to do whatever you can to make it work. More on that to follow. As a father (I read you have kids and that makes you a father by your own choice and actions) you are responsible to provide a loving, happy and non-hostile home for your kids. If you cannot achieve that by living there, then one of you need to leave it. Be prepared for that as a possible end.

Okay now that the tough stuff is out of the way. Your wife is most likely still upset for being deceived. That will last a long time and the emotions from it will be around for awhile. You both need time for that to heal.

There are several reasons why you never told her up front. Most likely, one of them is because you never really knew it yourself. Sure you dressed and stuff, but in your mind it was just a fetish. Only later in life when the urges got stronger and you realize it was not “just a fetish” did you decide to tell her. She needs to understand this. It can help her to tolerate the deception much easier. If that is not the reason, then figure out the reasons why and get her to understand them.

Gay or not, you are married and not likely to have sex with another man than another woman. Get over it, you are married, it was in your vows and a solemn promise. A person is only as good as their word, don’t break yours. Most likely your bi tendencies are a manifestation of wanting to be accepted as a girl. Pick up a magazine with the hottest male hunk and masturbate to it. What! You can’t. That’s because you are not bi or gay. If you can, well, you are married with kids, abstain. (This is a personal preference so you handle as you feel is right)

Okay, now for the hard part. You should take a step back. As much as it will hurt (and I know it will hurt) step back, at least for a short while. She needs a break and needs to know that you are willing to make this work. Once she gets that perspective, then you can start moving forward again.

The three most important things needed to move forward: communicate, communicate and communicate. You need to talk and talk often. There will be lots of crying at first, but that will get better.

Once you can talk about “it” without a ton of emotion, then you are ready to start talking about more. Explain that bras and panties are not what you are about and being Jessica is. That you need time to be Jessica in order for you to be a good father and husband. Discuss your fears and her fears. Comfort her and ensure her that those fears are not justified (if they are not). Talk about how you feel from day to day and how she feels. Work together to figure out how to address the feelings so they will work for everyone.

If she persists in being resistant to change, then it is possible she is not the right woman for your family and you may need to go your separate ways. However, even the most stubborn person can be reasoned with given the right amount of time an words. So keep trying, that’s what girls do.

Some final thoughts.

Like you, I would love to go off and live as Abigail everyday all the time. I would even transition, but I am a dad and my kids rely on their dad. So I need to work with my wife so I can be both dad and Abigail. It is not easy for us, but it gets better every day.

By the way, men tend to be more selfish then woman. In my mind, leaving my family to be Abigail would be a selfish act and not very womanly or motherly. The most motherly thing I could do for my children is to stay home and make this work no matter how painful it becomes. Fortunately, my wife sees the pain I am going through and accepts much of Abigail. She has come a long way in 18 months.

Sorry for the novel, I think I like to hear myself type.

Why is the wife always the 2ndary consideration? Like a pet dog or something... going along with whatever the other person feels they want.

If she isn't happy. If you aren't happy. Get a divorce (really easy to do). Move on with your lives and find what DOES make you happy (both of you, her included).

It's fine if you want to explore other things in life. No problem if you want to date a couple guys and see if that is a fit. It only becomes an issue when you are dragging other UNWILLING people along with you (by sneaking around their backs and whatever else).

Seriously, being single isn't the end of the world (I'm single, pretty easy).

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By the way, men tend to be more selfish then woman. In my mind, leaving my family to be Abigail would be a selfish act and not very womanly or motherly. The most motherly thing I could do for my children is to stay home and make this work no matter how painful it becomes.

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What the heck?! You think just sticking around "for the children" as it becomes painful for you and your partner is the "unselfish" thing? ....Uhh....no? It isn't good for you, it isn't good for your children, it isn't good for your pet goldfish.

Splitting up doesn't mean you just dump the kids on the side of the road. You can still BOTH see the kids (like adults?) and actually leave on good terms (again, adult thing). It is a lot more important that the parents are happy, because that will transfer to the kids more than anything.

If both parents are visiting the kids and spending time with them and are truly happy, the kids will be MORE than fine (even if both parents aren't living in the same house).

People need to move on with their lives... being happy isn't hard.

Why is the simple answer "divorce"?... I don't get Americans... easy come easy go, everything is a commodity... get real! When was
life ever like that? And where the hell do kids fit in? Oh, maybe they don't!

To the OP... watch Inception... where is your fantasy and where is your reality?

You can still care for someone even if you decide to get a divorce and move on with your lives. You can still be friends and be happy for eachother. The only thing, is making that move BEFORE you stress the entire sittuation to a point where you simply hate the other person (which happens as you drag things out with lies after lies, or broken promises *kinda like the OP's promise for only panties and bra's*).

The kids? There are a lot of arrangements that you can do. Having one home is probably the best (the entire "live somewhere different every 6 months" isn't such a great thing). So, one parent takes the kids and the other parent still plays an active role in their lives. When you don't hate your husband or wife and get sick at just looking at him/her, it becomes a lot easier to do things like that.

Like many things, marriage and relationships with another person are not binary systems. There are many different ways of working things out where *gasp* people can be happy.

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Originally Posted by Kaz

Why is the simple answer "divorce"?... I don't get Americans... easy come easy go, everything is a commodity... get real! When was
life ever like that? And where the hell do kids fit in? Oh, maybe they don't!

To the OP... watch Inception... where is your fantasy and where is your reality?

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Kaz, please don't stereo type. All Americans are not that way. I happen to think marriage is sacred and all other avenues should be pursued before the big D.

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My parents and grandparents were married until death parted them. You better believe they had moments when things got difficult and wanted to give up. But they didn't. They sucked it up and hung in there for better and for worse, sickness and in health.

Getting a divorce for the kids sake is an excuse and a poor one at that. The only time in my mind I find that an adequate excuse is if living together creates a violent or hostile environment for the children. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but let's be real. We all make decisions we must live with - marriage is one of them.

1. Your "marriage" is over. Whether or not u continue to live together is the question! I got on BETTER with my ex after we separated! And our kids were HAPPIER, too!

2. Your couples therapist sounds bogus! Mine said dressing in private was no issue and took it off our discussion agenda in 15 minutes!

3. Your wife has NO LEGAL RITE to take your kids away from u! If your CDing in private is mentioned in court, most judges consider it irrelevant! Unless u excersize your "fantasies" while you're still together and u get CAUGHT!

4. I struggled with dressing, gay, bi, and TS issues for 10 years. I worked thru the gay, bi, TS issues. But then, after coming out online here 3+ years ago, I continued to try and figure out what I am and where I'm going as a CD.

And, I've been dealing with all that with NO ONE AROUND to limit my actions/desires! If I was living with a non-accepting spouse, I would still be where u r!

I don't think anyone can tell u what u will want or what you'll do, given the opportunity! U just need TO GET OUT THERE AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF! Hopefully, your kids, family, and friends will hang in there with u!

Sounds like your present therapist can help u find some CD direction. Now, go see a good divorce attorney and find out what your legal options r! Then, make an informed decision!
I wish u ALL THE BEST! Keep in touch with us! U can tell WE CARE!:hugs:

Well why don't you just tell her exactly what you told us here? It sounds to me like open communication is totally missing in your relationship.

What you're doing here is what I've seen time and time again. You're setting yourself up for being dumped in the most cold hearted way even though that is exactly what you're trying to avoid. She is setting up boundaries for you (who even gave her that much authority over your life???) and making you feel appreciative for her being so 'generous' since she'd rather you didn't do any crossdressing at all. I wonder how you felt if you'd forbid her to wear skirts and then 'agreed on some boundaries'?

And from what it sounds like to me, you might not even be a hardcore crossdresser. You're just longing for a forbidden fruit right now. So if she had the kindness to care about you and your relationship, she'd at least give you the opportunity to find out for both of you. For all you know, it's not that great to go out en femme and your problems are solved.

Doesn't anyone see how one-sided these things always are? If you go to so much trouble to accommodate her small-minded needs as far as your dress-style is concerned, it should be HER who is grateful that she has such a great partner who would do that for her.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: If we come crawling to our partners, begging for a few crumbs of acceptance (for something that is totally harmless), then we have no right to complain that so few women are accepting. We've made our own bed so to speak. As long as most men refuse to stand up for themselves and their basic human rights in their own home, that's how long this gynocentric dating world will continue to suppress men's needs and desires and treat them from an angle of pathology. Even in vanilla relationships I see the same tendency.

Oh, and btw, giving in all the time does NOT secure a relationship. That's another big myth that most guys buy into. Just because you're doing everything to accommodate her, does not mean she'll repay you with loyalty or respect.

I know this is harsh but I feel us CD's need a little more of a talking to. We've become so used to meeting on anonymous forums feeling sorry for each other or ourselves and giving each other sympathy-pats. It feels nice but doesn't help make things better.

Thank you so much for all of your opinions I really am trying to take all of this in, my mind is going in about 100 different directions. I think my wife see's me hurting and that may be the reason she keeps asking me if I would just be happier on my own. She says that maybe doing my thing (crossdressing ...she doesnt like to label it) and having the freedom to do what I want whenever I want would make me happier and I guess I am just trying to figure it out in my mind if it would. The pro's for the most part are just selfish desires and the cons are life. You all have great points I could never live with myself If while married if I cheated on my spouse, but strangely enough because of no intimacy in my relationship I wouldnt blame her if she cheated,I know that sounds twisted but even though I may be painted into a corner I beleive she is too. I tried to approach her abou me trying and going out as Jessica and that is when she cut me off and made sure I wasnt planning on crossing her boundaries

The boundaries thing seems a bit harsh. Bra and panties only? Heck, that's only the foundation for me, and I'd not be happy with it. However, I keep it away from my wife, and I think we both like it better that way. However, remember the historical story of Pyrrus, the great Persian general, who won his battle but did so at the expense of his entire force. From this we get the term "Pyrric victory". Were to to chuck you marriage and your family just so you could have more freedom to dress as a woman, you'd likely find over time that it would be a very empty and hollow victory.

Find your foundation for your love, build upon that, and then find your options for dressing. Otherwise, you're only moving towards misery.

I may be wrong but you both need to sit down with a counselor who understands transgender issues


She seems to be offering you more freedom at the cost of losing her and the kids

At the same time the boundaries are reducing your opportunities and controlling your level of dressing

I get the impression you would be happier if you had the time to dress maybe once a month and this would make you more relaxed and less stressed which in turn may make her happier ( if you were given the time then most likely you would be able to attend family outings)

Also you wife need to decides if she really wants you to stay together at the moment it seems to be a constant battle

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

Jessica, I wasn't trying to be negative (see my post #3 and your reply #4), but it raises an important point. You said that your wife and therapist agreed to boundaries, but where was your input and agreement of those boundaries. Who represented your interest? I assumed you had agreed.
My first wife insistied that we got to counseling. So I agreed. We had individual and combined sessions. The problem was that we never discussed (much less agreed) on what our objectives were. As it turned out, my wife wanted me cured, and I wanted her to accept my cd-ing, and I think the counsellors (husband/wife team) just wanted to get paid, because we never seemed to be getting closer to anything. Of course, we weren't. At our final session, the counsellors recommended that we split. Unresolvable differences. Eventually, we divorced.
Single again, I was free to pursue whatever crossdressing was to be for me. As it turned out, I am a part time dresser who enjoys being a rather nornal guy who likes to occasionally dress up for pleasure. But that's me, and at least I was able to reach that determination without boundaries or expectations of others.
So my point is to urge you to be honest with yourself and not agree to anything you can't live with. Also, if you and your wife cannot agree on a counselling objective, get your own therapist who works for your interest. If you continue with one therapist, make sure your interests are included.
Sadly, but realistically, there are women who cannot accept a crossdressing husband.
There's a lot of good advice in the other responses. Many of us have been in similar situations before. I wish you the best.

Jessica, I'll jump in too. Marriage is a formal relationship that should give equal weight to the union of the two and their off-spring first. To achieve that each partner has to have equal say in things. It sounds like you aren't being asked for your opinion and when it does come out and doesn't match your wife's it is discounted or twisted. There is a lack of two-way communication there. Is this common in the rest of your marriage? Finances? Kids? Vacations? Movies? Think about it and if you can communicate about other things, there is hope in expanding it here, otherwise you may be up for some increasingly difficult times.

With the boundaries set by your wife and 'her' counselor you've been underdressing, but not really crossdressing. How can your wife assume anything about how crossdressing will make you more or less happy if she doesn't understand or won't accept what your needs may be. It could be that having an occasional chance to fully present yourself, even alone, in female mode will be all you really need, but until you have that chance it's all conjecture. It may be that you would benefit from dressing and going out on a regular basis, but right now you don't know because it's not available. It may be you need to explore your sexuality, but again while you don't know if that's the case or not, it seems that your wife is making that assumption based on a lack of understanding.

Good luck

Oh dear! Here's me jumping on the bandwagon too, feeling for you, your wife and your kids. The members' support shown for you is fantastic.

I have always believed that I divorced my wife because I loved her and I still do love her very much.

My marital relationship was strikingly similar to yours, Jessica. Especially the meanness.
Life has been much harder after finally managing to move out, but better.

The greatest sacrifice and my biggest fear was not being able to live with my children anymore - but they've coped best of all - I had underestimated their love for me.
My wife and I remain on very good terms and she only wants the best for me though she hates not being married to me anymore.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you
Gaby

ps you dress beautifully

sorry to here you have these problems.
it is time to lawyer-up, get to a counselor, and find a support group in you area.
you will need a lawyer as some legal things are coming your way, the counselor as you need some guidance, and a support group for the support.

find out if she is willing to have a separation for a time, as both of you need to find out were each of you stands. staying together just for the kids is a bad deal for ALL, even the kids.

no matter what happens both of you are going to get bloody, and loose out if things go badly. so as much as you can try to keep your side on the up and up. tape every thing, every word. keep all papers and letters etc.

if both you and your wife want to do good and help the kid's both of you must keep this civil.

it does not matter what next year or ten years from now. things are going to be tough on all of you.
does she have a stable job? your job? money in the bank? housing? medical? cars? this is why the lawyer.

by the way i am about your size and just a bit older, i just look like a man in a dress but working on it. i do have a support group and this does help. find a couple close enough to get to (mine is 80 miles from here) get to there events and find your real self.

good luck in life

Loni

.

Thanks Nicole i Know you werent trying to be negative and to answer your question they did ask me and the oly way I could answer with a brand new marraige house kids family ife was ok I would try, but the bottom line is my wife wanted me cured, just by what my wife says I just dont think she could accept her husband as a crossdresser, and she has basically told me that
Thanks Sara, my wife does ask my opinion but then before I can answer inserts the answers she wants to hear, and also that is why in our last discussion I brought up the possibility of me going out totally dressed out of town to see what it was all about, but that when she stopped me and said but how could you do that without crossing the boundaries that she is comfortable with, and I get it, i put the shoe on the other foot and I would probably be the same way especially if I didnt sign up for it. So I kind of know where she is coming from
Hi Gaby I agree everyone is great thats why I love this forum, boy our situations sound very similiar, I too would still love her if we divorced, I would hope she would find her 100% man, I really want her to be happy too. Tell me now that you are divorced do you dress more, go out as Gaby, enjoy the freedom of crossdressing and being yourself?
Loni thansk for the advice I hear what you mean there is alot to consider especially with everything we built together to imagine that gone, we have friends that have divorced and it isnt pretty. We fight now about finances imagine having two separate households wow.
Thanks Shelly I do think you right about offering my freedom but in a weak moment I almost beleive she hats to see me so down about life and thinks maybe if I was free to persue what it is I think i want maybe I would be happy and that would make her happy, but I just cant help to think that only exists in a perfect world, once the dust settles and everyone gets involved I know I would be outed and at that point even though it would be hard I would have to accept it.
Thanks Marla, great story I feel in my heart that is what I would be doing and I just dont know if the end result would be me living as I would like dressing and going out as Jessica or would I be in the closet and lonely and still just dress at home.

Jessica,

You DID agree to the limits by not saying "I WILL NOT TAKE THESE LIMITS".

Believe me I know what you are going there. I have been there. Our kids were grown and out of our house. I agreed to pay 60% of my income to stop the fight and the hell. Be sure this will make you happy. When the worm gets out of the bottle you will not be able to get it back in the bottle. No going back.

Em

There seem to be trust issues on both sides so, as someone else suggested, seeing a relationship counsellor with TG experience might be a good idea, and working through the problems with give and take on BOTH sides. The last therapist seems not to have had your interests at heart, setting boundaries with your wife about your behaviour without much compromise from her, from what you're saying. 14 years is a long time to have invested in the relationship, let alone the children, so it has got to be worth fighting for and not throwing away on what you worry might only be a fantasy. Take care, both of you x

Thank you all for your help I got alot of great information and you all are a great bunch of girls

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fluffy

...
Doesn't anyone see how one-sided these things always are? If you go to so much trouble to accommodate her small-minded needs as far as your dress-style is concerned, it should be HER who is grateful that she has such a great partner who would do that for her.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: If we come crawling to our partners, begging for a few crumbs of acceptance (for something that is totally harmless), then we have no right to complain that so few women are accepting. We've made our own bed so to speak. As long as most men refuse to stand up for themselves and their basic human rights in their own home, that's how long this gynocentric dating world will continue to suppress men's needs and desires and treat them from an angle of pathology. Even in vanilla relationships I see the same tendency.

Oh, and btw, giving in all the time does NOT secure a relationship. That's another big myth that most guys buy into. Just because you're doing everything to accommodate her, does not mean she'll repay you with loyalty or respect.

I know this is harsh but I feel us CD's need a little more of a talking to. We've become so used to meeting on anonymous forums feeling sorry for each other or ourselves and giving each other sympathy-pats. It feels nice but doesn't help make things better.

---

Thank you, Fluffy, I am so glad to finally hear someone on here who voices a feeling similar to mine.

Most of us I think are sensitive, we are so used to being afraid, and frankly we are perhaps too meek sometimes with regards to our lives and how we interact with others and in relationships.

Your crossdressing and feminine leanings are you. It's what you are. It is impossible to have a real relationship or to even have mutual acceptance with someone who is not willing to accept you, anymore than they would be willing to tolerate you not accepting them as a whole.

Thats one off the problems I have with television and movies a person can't be straight and enjoy dressing as a woman, we are always gay not that there is nothing wrong with being gay.
There is a lot of men who enjoy dressing as a woman and being in a stable relationship with a woman.
Just don't put us altogether in one pile and we all are gay because we dress as a woman. That's like saying one race kills more than another race does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laceyjessica

... She says things like when I asked her what she wanted for Christmas this year her comment was a massage at a salon and a real man to be with for an evening following that up with because I dont want to be with her. I sometimes think we both would be so much happier apart but it tears me up inside that the kids will be sad. But then again that would only be temporary I suppose if we werent together fighting all the time they may enjoy it as well...

---

This paragraph tells much - the "real man" comment is nothing but hurtful. And if you two are fighting all the time... that's not good for anyone, especially the kids. I'm not advocating a separation (only you two can make that decision), but it certainly looks like a viable option.,

Good luck, Jessica.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by laceyjessica

Hi Gaby I agree everyone is great thats why I love this forum, boy our situations sound very similiar, I too would still love her if we divorced, I would hope she would find her 100% man, I really want her to be happy too. Tell me now that you are divorced do you dress more, go out as Gaby, enjoy the freedom of crossdressing and being yourself?.

---

And thank you Jessica!

Divorce as a realistic option had occured to me after only six years into marriage.
It took another eight years before my (inevitable?) divorce happened in my head on my fortieth birthday while looking out into the Atlantic from the Dingle Peninsula. My youngest girl and I were on a trip home and I can still see her jumping up and down with me on the windy, green cliffs.
The divorce became legal only last July.

After a good Christmas2010, especially with the kids, my Ex wrote me a nasty email this morning emphasizing her bitterness and recalling her hurt.
It's funny how things happen and that your thread allowed me only yesterday to share my experiences.

Is this all just a fantasy?

I don't know why my Ex just can't leave me alone.
I once almost admitted to her that I have been crossdressing more, enjoying my freedom (from her - sorry for my bitterness:sad:) and simply being myself as you so poignantly put it.
She didn't mention crossdressing in her letter and that gives me a certain amount of satisfaction.
We're booked for therapy in the Spring - a demand of mine. We have to get on with one another because of the kids.

Moving into my own place was the most important step.
I do dress more but not nearly enough to quench my crossdressing-thirst.

As Gaby I would love to go out but you can perhaps understand now that I'm afraid of any taunting, and not least from my Ex.
I'm confident enough to believe that "going out" will happen when the time is right. It is becoming an important goal for me.

My self is very much Gaby
(but I've got to superwoman-change-superman again as I have my next appointment in fifteen minutes)

:hugs:Gaby

Hey just wanted to weigh-in, as an SO of a CDer. First off, I'm with Shelly who said:

I may be wrong but you both need to sit down with a counselor who understands transgender issues
She seems to be offering you more freedom at the cost of losing her and the kids

What kind of choice is that? You're unhappy and maybe you'd be happier alone? Um, no. Maybe you'd be happier with some peace, love and understanding from the SO. Some kindness. It sounds like she's really really insecure about the dressing. She doesn't know what it means, really. You yourself admit that you are bi-curious, which is probably what scares her the most. (I'm really nervous about my SO running off to explore that, personally.) You two need to have a real conversation, you need to explain to her in a heartfelt manner the whys and wherefores and she should listen. She probably has a lot of questions for you and if she asks them, they come out in an angry way. She's accusing you, in a way, because she expects the relationship to fall apart. If I put myself in her shoes, I think she probably feels hopeless. She feels like she's made a realistic even generous compromise in letting you wear bras and panties, but she doesn't realize how unkind that is to you. You really are in a tough situation, and my heart goes out to you.

I say find a different counsellor. Maybe, try and take dressing off the the agenda for a moment and have a good, hard look at the other parts of your relationship. Are you good communicators in other aspects? Are you good partners to one another? Do you help each other in other ways? If the fundamentals between you aren't good, well, then nothing will be. I've been through a divorce with kids and let me say, it sucks. But I had to do it, I am happier, but part of me still hurts and wishes it could have been avoided - life sure would be a lot less complicated. But, like you, I had a spouse who did not support me emotionally plus he did not help me in any way. I am happier, I feel I have discovered a stronger, better me since the divorce... Whatever you do, move slowly. Take time to deeply consider and don't act out of anger. Try to act in a loving way, even if you do separate.

Thanks Michael, I agree I am very meek when it comes to this because If the marraige ends I am assuming so is the closet.

Thanks Sharon I agree we do get grouped in to the catagory just wish it wasnt such taboo with society

Thanks Jay Cee, I agree I want to exhaust everything before I even consider separation but some of the comments from my wife I almost wonder if she is going to consider it first

Thanks Gaby, wow we are alike,lol and thats what I am afraid of If we separate and go our own ways I would hope to play being Jessica in most of my free time, just scares me and I know my wife she says she wants to see me happy and maybe I should go live on my own away from her and the kids, but I just know her vendictive side and the fact that she hates that I crossdress, I just see her using the dressing to her advantage.

Thanks Kitchenette, well we did the therapy ting she said its all on me, she has gone told her side and what she can handle and anything more I would have to go basically. See she doesnt want to be with a crossdresser, never signed up for it, she has known now for nine years and her stance hasnt changed, my fantasy as I put it makes me think I would be happy being able to be me, But i would miss my family structure. But the way it is now I am not happy and I miss something I have wanted to do all of my life and never have taken that chance. Like today I took 1/2 day off work, put on bra pnaties garter hose jeans blouse heels and breast forms and oh yea i disguised everything by wearing my mans sweatshirt, no makeup no wig, I bought some new foundation lingerie, shoes and a WEDDING GOWN. I would love to be able to come home and enjoy being femme, I cant and I have to hide everything, I guess no matter if she did accept I still would keep it from the kids until they were older.

I just had one more observation. Your question is "is this all just a fantasy?" The answer is NO, absolutely not. What you are going through is totally REAL, not a fantasy but an effort to find out more about yourself. It's also real that your wife is more than just uncomfortable with the direction in which you are headed and you are being forced into a position where you will have to either deny yourself or accept significant changes in your family life. She has established that she won't change, and I'm guessing that is partly so she won't have to accept any responsibility if anything bad happens. Once again, good luck.

There have been many excellent points and comments made so I'm not going to re-hash or add more of the same to what has already been said. One bit of caution I offer is a few weekends or mini-vacation to more deeply explore your desires and feelings as Jessica is not going to be enough or be an accurate measure. I'm going to try and use an analogy to make clarify that statement. It will be like starting a new romance. Everything is so exciting in the beginning - all of your experiences are new and fun, you can't stop thinking about the other person and wanting to be with them, you dream and fantasize about the future. You are drunk on love and the rush that comes with it. New love is intoxicating, but it rarely stays that way nor will be an accurate reflection of the long term nature of the relationship. When the newness wears off and you move into that deeper level of love, that is more reflective of the true nature of the relationship. That is what you will be living with in the long term, not the exciting electricity of new love. I'm sorry to say having the freedom to fully dress will be very similar. I've seen it happen to a lot of t-girls. There is an initial high followed by a leveling off. It really is intoxicating and like taking a drug. You can't get enough of it and it is addictive. Unfortunately, you will not always have that same high you experienced in the beginning. When it levels off it may not be everything you thought is was going to be then you may regret what you gave up to get that initial high. It is sometimes referred to as being inside of a "pink fog" and it takes some time to get out of the fog and clearly everything that is around you. I've been there and many experienced t-girls have had similar experiences. Spending a small amount of time fully immersed as Jessica is not going to give you a complete picture. It will take time and multiple experiences which are things you do not appear to have available to you. So proceed with caution if you get to experience being Jessica and don't let the initial high color your decision too much.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but you are on the edge of a major life changing decision. You, and only you, have to decide whether you can happily live with whatever boundaries conditions get put into place regardless of the mechanism used to generate those boundaries. Whether they are fair or reasonable does not completely matter. We all have boundary conditions of some type and each have to decide whether they are acceptable and tolerable. Either change the boundaries, find a place with different ones or live with them. You also have to decide on what level of personal happiness you want and need. Until you find what boundaries you are willing to live with and your required happiness level, you will second guess yourself at every juncture.

I wish you the best of luck and the strength to work through this. It will not be easy or simple. There is a lot a stake so let both your mind and heart speak to you.

This is what I tell people: certain structures in my brain are feminized, either due to exposure to estrogen in the womb, or simple genetic expression, or perhaps both. I suspect that our spot on the transgender spectrum is determined by how much of our brains/nervous systems are feminized. Full TS folk are likely mostly that way, some of us are more even-brained, and some (like myself) are weighted to masculine, yet still influenced by feminine neurology.

The fantasy aspect is a huge part of this, because we are in male bodies. But I'd bet that the roots of this are very likely structural, that is, due to how the connections are arranged between neurons in the brain, and/or how those neurons respond when they are excited or inhibited.

Sara...thanks for the addl info and I think your right she wont change and there is a part of me that doesnt expect her to,knowing her all these years its not just me her stance is just that, her stance and I have to respect that.I just cant help to think that were both stuck somehow and neither wants to givee in or give up, she has asked me to stop dressing and be a husband, i try to expplainits not that simple.
Thanks Melissa great analogy and that is my biggest fear that if we were to go separate directions and I go full steam ahead being Jessica anytime, I often think will I be bored wit that in a month 6 months a year and now I am by myself and the fantasy has faded, but there is another part of me that thinks I am 44 and have loved too dress all these years, now the desire is becoming stronger maybe it is time to go our separate ways and maybe it wont get boring after a month or 6 months and i might truely be happy about who I really am