I had the most interesting conversation with a transexual

Actually, my wife and I went out clubbing last Saturday night and she started a conversation with a ts, I was aside just listening but gotten a feeling that I wasn't liked by the ts, as the night went on I got involved with the conversation and she (the ts.) stated that she didn't like or cared much on becoming friends with crossdressers, she said that cders are almost all the same, they get all excited when they go into a Wallmart buying undies, and when they do get dressed up they look so ridicules, she went on to say that cders think that by putting on some short dress high heels and nylons they gonna look like a woman, she said that being a woman comes from within, from your heart, and that shows thru your appearance, I felt like disappearing, I told her that she was gonna make me cry, and then she asked me what I was, I told her that for the moment I was a crossdreser but I was buying time to become a full woman, she offered to help me to look more passable



and well, I'll share the rest another time...
I don't mean to offend anyone, tell you the true, I got a little offended.

I guess I would be a little offended too! Who knows she may turn in to a friend yet! Don't keep us waiting for the 'REST OF THE STORY!

I think it's important to treat a TS the way they (she or he) want to be treated.
I do not question looks or anything.
Some of them, there's a "battle within" that you will never know. ....I believe them what they say 120%.
I know firsthand that rift between CD'ers and TS's. I even had a few awkward moments in my TG support group.
I have a feminine side & a masculine side. They do not feel the same as me, that's fine.
In many cases, I believe there is a clinical condition.
I am for happiness and peace for all, with the same mutual respect. Someof the TS's I know personally are pretty damn funny, and wonderful people. They are my friends.

I know I would think that I don't need much of such people in my life.

Even back when I knew myself to be a cross-dresser but had not yet realized that I was "transgender", I dressed for what was within me, not for her. And if some of it looked silly to "real transsexuals", I really don't care. Nearly every girl becoming a woman goes through phases of trying things to see whether she likes them, whether they suit her looks, whether they suit her personality: it is a natural part of growing up and discovering oneself. One does not discover oneself by putting on things that are "supposed to be good for you" (i.e., wearing what that TS thinks are appropriate.)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, there is a world of differences between CD and TS, but I feel it was a bit tactless for this person to put their their view forward in such an aggressive manner without thinking about your feelings. I wouldn't take it to heart though, not all of us act like that.

There are a few TS's who are apparently so insecure that they need to put down CD's. I've encountered them too, and always made a point to avoid them once I knew about their attitudes. They think they're somehow superior because they are more "real" than CD's. They can be quite nasty.

That said, the vast majority of TS's that I've met have been very nice people and would never do something like that.

Carol

I have met a few TS who had the over the top self righteous attitude and at times it just made me want to puke. We all live under the same umbrella as far as I am concerned, different or not. Now I just ignore or walk away when I come across individuals such as the person that you had the unfortunate experience with. Dress any damn way you want and if they don't like it, well they can go themselves.

I think it is very idealistic to think all TS will be kind. Some will be unpleasant and obnoxious. All groups have these.

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Originally Posted by Ericka2

Actually, my wife and I went out clubbing last Saturday night and she started a conversation with a ts, I was aside just listening but gotten a feeling that I wasn't liked by the ts, as the night went on I got involved with the conversation and she (the ts.) stated that she didn't like or cared much on becoming friends with crossdressers, she said that cders are almost all the same, they get all excited when they go into a Wallmart buying undies, and when they do get dressed up they look so ridicules, she went on to say that cders think that by putting on some short dress high heels and nylons they gonna look like a woman, she said that being a woman comes from within, from your heart, and that shows thru your appearance, I felt like disappearing, I told her that she was gonna make me cry, and then she asked me what I was, I told her that for the moment I was a crossdreser but I was buying time to become a full woman, she offered to help me to look more passable



and well, I'll share the rest another time...
I don't mean to offend anyone, tell you the true, I got a little offended.

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Are we to believe thatthis person never went to walmart to buy underwear? They just became the butterfly withour the cacoon? Sounds to me like the higth of arrogance and egotism. In this case I assume TS stand for "total s---thead. was this a post-op ts? or? Some people have a lot of nerve and in your shoes, I wouldn't pay much attentoin to them.

There are lots of fish in the sea. Find friends elsewhere.
just my 2 pennies worth

There's a few I know of on facebook whom really look down on crossdressers, transvestites and even late blooming TS with real contempt and scorn.. One of them is even from an "Equality" group whom even goes so far as bashing LGB etc.. This holier than thou, better than them, above them attitude is nothing new

If u REALLY want to understand some else's journey, u need to walk a mile in her shoes!:straightface:

And, if she was wearing 6" heels, THAT mite be one INCREDIBLY PAINFUL trip!:doh:

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Originally Posted by gretchen2

We all live under the same umbrella as far as I am concerned,

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Incidents like the OP of this thread make me question that logic.

I'm all for tolerance and understanding and people getting along, to be sure. But as far as I'm concerned, there's a pretty vast gulf between me (a guy who likes to wear dresses and makeup) and someone who wants their junk surgically rearranged. Treat me as any other individual with his own life and tastes, and we'll get on fine... but I'd not tolerate that sort of condescension. (i.e. "you're not a real tranny because you're happy with your dangly bits.")

Ericka, I think you were right to feel offended, but I'm not sure you would be right to accept "help" from someone who thinks that you are ridiculous. I suppose in some ways that she may have been paying you a back-handed compliment by asking what you are.

As others have said, there are intolerant people in all walks of life - we even have them on these forums. Fortunately, we are not all the same (wouldn't it be boring if we were).

Unfortunately there are a lot of people in this world that can only make themselves feel good is by making others feel bad. Yes Hormone replacement, makes a difference, but I have seen very passable, and attractive CD, as well as I've seen TS, that look line a packer lineman. A lot depends on what you have to start with. And how you feel within, should be just as or more important than how you look. And as far as the TS you met, with a remark like that, shes, no LADY, maybe a woman, but not a lady, a lady would never say something so hurtful to a person as that. Oh, and I think it was Doc, that said something about walking in her shoes, well if your shoes pinch your feet, thats still no reason to take it out on the rest of the world, she could still have been nicer. How many people do you know that go around telling strangers, just how ugly and silly they look! Rude!
Tina B.

Gosh... What ever happened to what you learned in kindergarden, "Treat others the way you would want to be treated" I find it works very well for me.

I just feel sorry for those that need to put someone else down to make themselves feel better.

This is a perfect example of why I don't answer "That Question", Some people have qualifying questions in their mind that they use to decide who can orbit their particular world. It's just like being at a party and being asked "What do you do for a living". At the club scene, that question seems so high school, I want to laugh. On top of that there are so many posers, who are "TS" in their minds only. They are and will spend their entire lives 'transitioning' without ever making a step other then wearing clothes and makeup. From what i've read most transexuals, who make 'the leap' to SRS, go on to live a quiet life in the 'real world' and withdraw from the club scene. I think Erika has fallen for this particular TS high school antics, and she would be better off getting advice from her wife and women of the real ford to be more passable.

Personally i would have been offended too...and to add to that i wouldnt want her help based on her opinion of crossdressers...

TS and CD are two very different worlds....my few gay friends have talked about crossdressers in the same manner, i too was shocked at their perception of us as a whole. One of them even said "Dirty Crossdressers" in the most blatant form

Moral of this story: Sometimes you find non-acceptance in the same place you would look for acceptance. Never judge a book by its cover.

-Donni-

So far I heard lots of negativity and I most say with a reason, I'm the type of person that likes to learn from people that I come in contact with, specially from people that knows what they are talking about, I did get sad at some points of our conversation but we all need some tough talk ones in a while, that made me feel like I needed to wake up and not get so comfty since I have still such a long path ahead of me, as for her defense she was absolutely gorgeous and I know she didn't get that way by luck, I'm sure as she told me, is a cruel world out there and to be prepare for it, and I did not let it get to me just because Ericka knows what she is, none can put me down, and I take criticism because I know is good for me, I know what I look like and I know where I'm going, thanks for your input and as always I'm never too old to learn.

Love, Ericka.

Don't you get the feeling that most people are judgemental and intolerant in this society. Its particularly ironic in the transgender subculture, where we differ (mostly) by degree and not kind. It seems that everybody needs somebody that they can look down on.

Dear Erica,

I find it amazing that that people who CRAVE to be accepted for who they are "inside" very rarely have any compassion for anyone else.

I don't like being so generalized but I have run across this type of behavior many times.

Most of us as we grew up we were told by our families to "Be a Man". And for some reason some of us just did not want to be that way.

How about just be the best person you can be!

Erica, I would have been offended too. At least for a moment then felt sad that the person who made the comment was so troubled that they had to go out of their way to make themselves feel better by putting your life wish down.

Please don't let this issue bother you for too long. Their problems are not yours.

I've met a few TS's that are probably even more insecure that they would put down GGs for being too mundane or "frumpy" while they considered themselves the picture of ultra-femininity.

I was maybe a bit harsh when I commented that to get acceptance they need to give acceptance too.

I agree with a lot of what has been said about the need for acceptance and that crossdressers, perhaps, would be more tolerent than most. My experience has not always been the case when I have observed or heard crossdressers slagging other crossdressers off because of the way they dress or that they are not 'passable' enough to be in their company, all very hurtful and unnecessary. Not all of us are in circumstances or locations that supports or encourages change and transparency, Leah.

It is the same as with any minority group. Some members of one, attack members of another. African Americans against Gays. Gays against bis, TSs vs CDs.

It is stupid and helps absolutely no one.

It would be like the inhabitants of misfit island sniping at one another instead of proving they are worth it.

OK who died an let her control the bridge crossing? The whole world seems to be clique's and "Us against them" I fall in that category because I really don't care to hang with "Drag queens" but that is based on the few I know here. This seems to be one of those who think deep down inside we all want to be "girls". That we are all fetishists, that we really are just wannabes. I just checked my membership card and I forgot to check off the Wal-mart pantie collector box.

You will have to ask the question if you really want her to help you pass. Is passing what it is all about (thought that was the hokey pokey)? Do you really want her to sculpt you into her image? And did you catch the little subtle dig she gave you? Well, it will get worse later when you don't play the game the way she wants you to play.

OK we get it. Some TS's think they are the end all and be all in the TG world. Yes it is a struggle and yes we understand that deep down inside you never fit in before but there is no reason to reflect the hate and intolerance you experienced on others. If anything you should be more compassionate and understanding. I would put this person in my book as a speed bump to who I want to be and my happiness and find a different route around her next time.

This is a great example of a topic that has been bandied about on this forum for some time. I'm very glad that many, if not most, transexuals are not this way. But this person seems like the textbook example of a militant TS who feels that crossdressers are some kind of *******ization of what they have achieved in life. They all should take a step back and realize that whereas their own path led them to where they are, it is not the only path to walk, and we are all walking on the transgendered trail together. Like her, none of us would have arbitrarily chosen this in our lives had it not imposed itself upon us. Like her, we make what we can of it. Some of us can deal with it simply by crossdressing. Others have to take more drastic measures. But few of us feel that by simply shopping for panties and slipping on some nylons, that we suddenly pass for stunning examples of the ideal woman. She should come on down from her high horse, because until she does, all anyone else can do for her is point at her and issue pity for a person who's life has at times come off the rails. What else can explain such contempt for people she doesn't even know? She felt she could only be happy as a woman. She has found that her unhappiness has followed her across the divide. And now she can only find some form of contentment with herself by putting others down.

The life of a transsexual is very challenging. She's gone through a lot to get to where she is. She probably feels that cross-dressing is superficial and cowardly because at the end of the day, the m2f crossdresser retreats back to his mountain of masculine privilege, and perhaps has fewer deep identity crises associated with it. But the truth is everyone has their own battles to fight, and it wasn't right of her to belittle yours. That said, in that situation I would put myself in her shoes - you may find that what she really is lashing out against is her own insecurity and angst for self acceptance. Her insistence on creating an 'us versus them' dialectic would tell me that she is quite concerned about her identity in relationship to others. Being TG, my own experience is that I tend to be very very sensitive to gender and gender identity. Maybe she had a bad day, bad week, or bad year... this sort of pain can really drive any person to bitterness at times.

Her wanting to make you pass seems to me to be little more than another chance for her to exert her superiority complex on you, but it might prove to be an opportunity for her and you to communicate openly an honestly and perhaps both of you can walk away with more respect and love for each other's individual situations.

She sounds like a knob.

Edit:

Sorry, Im the most open-minded person I know and I try not to judge...but theres only one kind of person I cannot tolerate and that is someone who is so ridiculously close-minded, especially considering the hardships they have had to endure from other peoples close-mindedness.

Shouldn't have pushed for a conversation, IMO. Why subject yourself to poor treatment from someone who clearly didn't like you (for whatever reason) from the get go?

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Originally Posted by Ericka2

So far I heard lots of negativity and I most say with a reason, I'm the type of person that likes to learn from people that I come in contact with, specially from people that knows what they are talking about, I did get sad at some points of our conversation but we all need some tough talk ones in a while, that made me feel like I needed to wake up and not get so comfty since I have still such a long path ahead of me, as for her defense she was absolutely gorgeous and I know she didn't get that way by luck, I'm sure as she told me, is a cruel world out there and to be prepare for it, and I did not let it get to me just because Ericka knows what she is, none can put me down, and I take criticism because I know is good for me, I know what I look like and I know where I'm going, thanks for your input and as always I'm never too old to learn.Love, Ericka.

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She may learn a few things from you too if you become friends. Sometimes, apparently "closed minded people" become more open by getting to know others as people and realize that their opinions were originally made on limited knowledge. Maybe this person will become more well-rounded and enlightened by getting to know more of your world.

I have friends who are TS and are lovely people,but I have come across,too often those that despise us,and have made no secret of that fact by stating it loud and clear,My reaction is to just ignore them,I dont need negativity in my life,least of all from those,I thought would understand on even some level.I even had one who I considered a friend refuse to walk down the street with me,as if I lessened her new found femininity (the fact she still walked like a bloke didn't occur to her) some friend.If they hate us To hell with them

Wow - hope being blunt is ok but this TS you speak of sounds like an idiot... Personally I would not be offended, I would have been confused and probably laughed! I dont identify with many members of this forum, but that does not mean I am bigger or better than anyone. I dont have time for discrimination whatever form it takes... The reason I would laugh is how ironic it is - someone who feels tolerance and understanding should be given to her, while being completely unable to give it!!!

I agree with many of the above posters. If my personal journey took me towards more than my current CDing, I would not want someone so narrow minded guiding me...

Jx

Actually just edited this as a girl I was talking to suggested "Oh just buy the slips and then move on... I wanted short hair and now I dont, you will probably get bored like I have" LOL, initially I was p@@sed off for her belitting what for me is a weird and nervous place to be in, even if it is exciting. But I just read Avana's response, and perhaps being understanding is also a better place to be rather than my possibly automatic 'they think this, therefore I have no time for them...'

Can U say "Narcissism"

Destructive Narcissism
An unrealistic sense of superiority ("Grandiose")
Desire for power, wealth and admiration May enjoy power Pursues power at all costs, lacks normal inhibitions in its pursuit
Concerns limited to expressing socially appropriate response when convenient; devalues and exploits others without remorse
Lacks values; easily bored; often changes course
Traumatic childhood undercutting true sense of self-esteem and/or learning that he/she doesn't need to be considerate of others

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Originally Posted by Avana

The life of a transsexual is very challenging. She's gone through a lot to get to where she is. She probably feels that cross-dressing is superficial and cowardly because at the end of the day, the m2f crossdresser retreats back to his mountain of masculine privilege, and perhaps has fewer deep identity crises associated with it. But the truth is everyone has their own battles to fight, and it wasn't right of her to belittle yours. That said, in that situation I would put myself in her shoes - you may find that what she really is lashing out against is her own insecurity and angst for self acceptance. Her insistence on creating an 'us versus them' dialectic would tell me that she is quite concerned about her identity in relationship to others. Being TG, my own experience is that I tend to be very very sensitive to gender and gender identity. Maybe she had a bad day, bad week, or bad year... this sort of pain can really drive any person to bitterness at times.

Her wanting to make you pass seems to me to be little more than another chance for her to exert her superiority complex on you, but it might prove to be an opportunity for her and you to communicate openly an honestly and perhaps both of you can walk away with more respect and love for each other's individual situations.

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this is a very ... very good analysis

People who feel bad about themselves tend to look for others to put down. Whether a cocky high school male or a TS, a bully is a bully. Thankfully many TS women are sweet caring people who don't act this way.

Like Melissa, I cannot tolerate someone who is ridiculously closed-minded, but not knowing the person in question, I would have to say that you may have just caught this person on a bad day. Discouragement and depression can often lead to inexcusibly foolish talking. Some people have the mistaken notion that the transition process is an over night event and I know first hand how discouraging life can be with that silly notion in your head. Or you see another CD/TG rocking your dream outfit that you look like a hippopotamus in. We can list things all night here on that possibility.

She was wrong in every way to treat you like that. She should realize that she isn't the only one who has struggled in life. We all have our struggles.

I left a support group several years ago for being thought of that way. The TS's that ran the group claimed to be open minded and welcoming to CD's, but at times it seemed they barely tolerated us.

Ericka2,

What was your wife's reaction to how this TS thought of/disparaged you? I know that while my wife is not the biggest fan of me being me she would likely have jumped into her with both feet over it.

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Originally Posted by Avana

The life of a transsexual is very challenging. She's gone through a lot to get to where she is. She probably feels that cross-dressing is superficial and cowardly because at the end of the day, the m2f crossdresser retreats back to his mountain of masculine privilege, and perhaps has fewer deep identity crises associated with it. But the truth is everyone has their own battles to fight, and it wasn't right of her to belittle yours. That said, in that situation I would put myself in her shoes - ....................

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The life of ANY transgendered person is challenging, wether they are CD or TS. Most TG people fight a overwhelming internal battle on a daily basis. If i had a nickle for every post here from a sister who fought the angest of gender conflict , I'd be rich !
By the replys here, she should have put herself in the OP heels, and appologize for the angest she inflicted on the OP.

Something like this happened to me about a month ago at a group dinner.When sitting down near someone I didn't know very well,they immediately inquired as to "how do I identify",as if I should be perfectly content with announcing to everyone else at the table exactly where I stand.How inconsiderate!Of course she was TS and had no problems blurting that out throughout the evening...I'm not like that at all,there are things I like to keep personable.I simply said,"This is something I share with close friends or those I choose to be intimate with".People should learn to be tactful and not assume anything about others.I know there are ts-tg who have been through hell,however that doesn't mean they have the right to classify,evaluate or even inquire.Funny,it's a question I never worry over, as I choose not to categorize myself ,that should be explanation enough for anyone worth keeping a good friendship with.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

Don't you get the feeling that most people are judgemental and intolerant in this society. Its particularly ironic in the transgender subculture, where we differ (mostly) by degree and not kind. It seems that everybody needs somebody that they can look down on.

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Thank you Kim! This is why I absolutely cannot understand the attitude by some transsexuals. It is as if the concept of empathy just doesn't exist for them. I can only imagine the struggles that a transitioning TS has to go through but I have experienced some struggles of my own and I have never thought of demeaning or ridiculing someone going through the same or similar experience. Maybe that is just my nature. . .

I think/hope that these types of transwomen are the minority though! I have met some very nice ones.

The worst type of transphobia. Trans on trans.

A few years ago, I met a pre-op TS, who pretty much said straight-out that only the people who were going to opt for sex-change were true trans-sexuals, and that everybody else was merely gay men looking to camouflage their homosexuality. The people who actually met with men, pretty much relegated to the category of wh***s and ****s, were neither better nor worse than the CD's who say they are hetero, who in this person's opinion were merely 'latents with repressed personalities.'

It was an education about human behavior and how certain individuals need something or someone to hate to justify their own existence. Other than a ten minute psycho-babble lecture on terminiology, I certainly didn't hear anything cogent about transgenderism from her.

She does have a point, but it was delivered like a bullet. CD'ers wearing short dresses or skirts don't end up looking like real women. Especially when worn at inappropriate times. Being TS does require you to work on blending a lot more. Some cd'ers do work on that and succeed, but it does appear to be the exception at times.

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Originally Posted by Melissa Stone

She sounds like a knob.

Edit:

Sorry, Im the most open-minded person I know and I try not to judge...but theres only one kind of person I cannot tolerate and that is someone who is so ridiculously close-minded, especially considering the hardships they have had to endure from other peoples close-mindedness.

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"...only two types of people I can't stand - those that are intolerant of others and the Dutch." I love this line

This type of sanctimony really rubs me the wrong way. regardless of the day, week, moth or year someone is having it does not ever give them the right to treat others with contempt. This whole vain of TS being superior to CD is BS. All MtF started out the same way, with dangly bits in an area where they got in the way of our panites fitting right. just becasue someone opts to have them cut off doesn't mean they have an edge over those who choose (for many reason) to leave them there. Regardless of how far we take our TG lives, we will never get past being TG. We will forever have to deal with the male side and the female side. This may only mean the relationship with family from when we were younger or it may mena dealing with our children after transition. TG is TG. It is a vast spectrum and regardless of where we fit on that spectrum, we are all on that continuum together. Society as a whole does not view us differently becasue we have parts removed or not. We can stand back and defiantly state that we are better than each other all day long but the truth is we all put our pantyhose on one leg at a time.

I am truly sorry for rambling but holier than thou and self righteousness are hot button items for me and now I am on my soap box...what's the next thread for me to jump into?

Don't B a Drag Jus B a queen!!

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Originally Posted by danielle swenson

Don't B a Drag Jus B a queen!!

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Would that be a Queen B?