Born this way or out of abuse?

Hi everyone,
Im new here and very much in the closet. I have come out to an old girlfriend who exploited Jennifer. She was accepting at first but soon used Jennifer as a way of abusing me and having something over me. Unfortunately she was like that which took all the fun out of dressing up.
I told my wife years ago and initally she was alright but she has now retracted and dug her heels in (no pun intended) to say that I want to do it because Im self- destructive. She will tell me Im in denial of my upbringing which was full of abuse. I was sexually, physically, emotionally abused and neglected. I found my sisters panties on the bathroom floor and tried them on when I was about 12. Everything felt right and off to the races I was. I loved it and I used every opportunity to dress when I could. I told myself I could stop anytime.
My sexual orientation has been questioned by my family and myself. I havent had a same sex experience. I have had fantasies while dressed about being with a guy but deny thoughts of me being with a man in guy mode. My family was your typical gay bashing, they should all be shot group. My wife says its cool if Im bisexual just be me and not "a woman". She tells me that by wearing something Im just letting all the negative comments people have said regarding me to be true. If I was told I am a sissy or a pansy which I was then I become that to hide the hurt feelings of beng called that. I thought it f I just started doing more typical guy stuff it would help. I joined the Air Force and have worked in male dominated professions but it didnt help.
I still think of dressing up. I look fantastic as a guy. I gets loads of attention from women. Men look up to me especially being 6'4. I am successful. My wife will say just ditch the dressing up and you are fine. She tells me Im addicting into the clothes to avoid the pain from my childhood.
Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated.
Love,
Jennifer

Does it really matter what the origin is? You are who you are. Be okay with that. If your wife has issues with it then she can come here and get support through FAB or maybe go to counseling.

Jennifer...it sounds like your wife just really doesn't want you to dress up, and she is using a very coy way about telling you this. It may be a coping mechanism for her, that she has learned to smoothly talk it over with a spin on it, so that you would tend to feel guilty .... siding with you about the way that you grew up and how this is a coping mechanism for that, so you don't need to dress anymore because the abuse isn't there. If dressing makes you comfortable, or allows you to express an inner self, no matter how hard you try, you still will tend to gravitate back to dressing, or even just thinking about it, because it is who we are.

Have you tried exposing your wife to the wealth of information that is available on the web in regards to crossdressing?? When my wife first found out, she was loaded with questions and reservations, fortunately, she witheld judgement until she had a chance to fully understand the other side of me. She spent countless days reading and learning, asking me questions each night about how I related to what she had read. Because of all this, she is fully supportive of my CDing as long as I maintain a good balance between Renee and my male mode self.

The only difference with you an some other CD is you had a bad childhood . The CD an the abuse are two seperate things . You dress becuz you want to dress all kids that are abused dont dress up in the opsite genders clothes . We are just the LUCKY ONES that get to do that .

Hi Jennifer,

My childhood was OK and I had no sisters. But I remember raiding my mom clothes as early as 4 or 5 years old.

This forum has help to me to realize that I am not strange or weird. We all wonder why we dress. Accepting it is the hardest thing to do. It wasn't till I accepted it that I could finally live life again.

You can stop dressing but it will come back even stronger than before.

I have learn here that there seems to be only two ways to quit crossdressing.

That is to either to transition or die.

I myself chose to live. I no longer crossdress. Life is fun again. :battingeyelashes:

Best wishes to you.

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Originally Posted by Scarlet Rose

I had a wonderful childhood full of love and support. It has nothing to do with your childhood other than a baggage of guilt and confusion, which your wife seems happy to exploit to make you feel bad. Presumably she is doing this to make you stop dressing because she doesn't like it, but her methods seem somewhat cruel to me.

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Have to agree with this.

No one here is qualified to assessed your particular situation. I would submit that many of us have become CDers without any history of family abuse or sexual abuse.

Childhood was not really abusive, but rather unhappy and unfulfilled. I got it out of my system in my 20s and 30s. My CD/TG aspect- i started getting interested in girls AS girls around 7-8, some 40 years ago. it's actually been the most constant thing in my life, that and reading, and exercising.

While your background of abuse seems to be a big part of why you crossdress, it may not have anything to do with it at all. Not all of us were abused as a children or even as adults. I would suggest that you find a thearpist that you can talk with to figure it out. Maybe you simply like the clothing. Maybe you get a sexual turn on from it. Maybe you really are a transsexual and really want/need to be a girl. There are so many avenues that this can take it is hard for someone untrained to say.

There is a growing body of science that suggests that one's location on the gender continuum is based upon brain chemistry and structure which is determined in large part, in utero. So your desires to dress have little or nothing to do with your abused upbringing. I suspect you wife would love to blame someone else for the one and only flaw she sees in her otherwise perfect husband (and I mean that as a compliment to you and her both).

Leann

A very difficult subject matter to bring up Jennifer and one that is just as hard to answer. It strikes me that people that are CDers , certainly speaking for myself, are very in touch with their feminine side and love fem clothing. I don't see how that can be linked to abuse and it certainly isn't a "flaw" or a negative trait. However the only person that could really answer your question is a trained professional, but I do agree whole heartedly with Scarlet Roses thoughts and hope you continue to enjoy dressing hon.

Hugs Charlotte

I think that if abuse were the primary criteria for becoming a crossdresser or transsexual, we'd be in REALLY good company right now. Sadly there are so many abused kids out there today. My childhood was not full of abuse or imposed shame, and my desire to crossdress reared its head at the tender age of 4 or so. Nobody made me do it and it was not a sexual thing, it just felt right and still does. It seems that many SO's feel that it was due to upbringing, nurture as opposed to nature. It's easier for them to accept this part of your life by not thinking there is something actually physically wrong with you, mental issues can be fixed (or so they believe) and physical ones are permanent. Just my take on it.

Ginger

Leann is right. Your gender orientation and probably your crossdressing tendencies are most likely begun before you are even born. Something in the brain's hypothalamus is changed. You hid your true self because society disapproved. Now she has to learn to accept what you could not bring yourself to tell her before marriage. Me to.
Perhaps she feels that this is making her a lesbian. And she does not like nor respect lesbians. And she feels that other people will think she has lesbian tendencies. We are all people--we cannot change how we were born.

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Monroe

Born this way or out of abuse?

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One or the other, or perhaps a bit of both. Only you can discover what it is that makes you who you are.

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I told my wife years ago and initally she was alright but she has now retracted and dug her heels in (no pun intended) to say that I want to do it because Im self- destructive.

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Seems like your wife wants a masculine male for a husband, not a woman for a husband. Many woman have their entire reality shaken up because when you replace the image of the man she was sexually attracted to with an image of a feminine male, it upsets that attraction drastically. It sounds like right now, she's having to go one way or the other; and if you keep the feminine 'you', that may destroy completely the image she was sexually attracted to.

Denial or not, she's upset by the whole thing. You're treading on dangerous ground, and your relationship with her is potentially at great risk. While she may continue to love you, if she loses sexual attraction to you, she will eventually become sexually attracted to a different man, and fall in love with him. Then the combination of that attraction and love will trump whatever love she still has for you, and bingo, you've been replaced in her heart as a mate.
Be very, very careful.
How do I know? Well, I've been there. And it didn't end well.

Give it up and enjoy your life... most of us would kill for your obvious talents and abilities... I guess you have no idea of what it is like out there for the other 99%...?

Let me get this straight. You overcame the awful childhood filled with abuse to become a successful, good looking, happy person who hasn't succumbed to the circle of abuse by becoming an abuser yourself, you find happiness in crossdressing (and it's a behavior that makes you feel good and allows you express yourself without self-destruction, like some of the vices out there)... and ... you're not sure if you're happy?

You're the one in control of your happiness. If you've read the other posts, this one is going to sound repetitious. You are who you are, and your genetics, childhood, adolescence, and adult years have made you that person. My interpretation of your post is that you're happy with what you do, but you're looking for others to affirmation of your feelings.

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Everything felt right and off to the races I was. I loved it and I used every opportunity to dress when I could.

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That statement alone tells me that this aspect of your life brings you happiness, and happiness is a rare thing to find in this world, which we get to partake of for so short a period. ENJOY IT! :D

Okay ... pragmatic time: if you're really not sure how to deal with it, or unsure how it's going to affect your marriage, professional help (either single or couples counseling/therapy) might be worth looking into. You state that your wife has had a change of heart regarding it...what preempted that? Did the frequency of your dressing increase? You state that she calls it self-destructive ... has it affected your life and/or marriage in a negative way (dressing aside), be it emotionally or physically?

Thanks for all the support. All of you made a lot of sense and I do appreciate you taking the time to help me out here. My wife will never really understand it but its up to me to just accept me. Will I be able to share this with her? Probably not. She looks at crossdressing as an addiction and that if she supports it then she would be the enabler. She looks at it as if it was a drug. She feels I am abusing myself and that for her to just help me with it or not to stop me would not be showing me proper love. There are some fine posts here and people who have enormous courage who believe in themselves and have done great work to make them truly happy. I think in the past she thought I changed too much and became more delicate and it seem to scare the live out of her with the crossdressing. I got caught up in Jennifer and I dont think anyone could change her opinion even with the enormous wealth of info on crossdressing. Thanks again for the support. I have done counseling and I am good now. The irony of it was that a counselor recommended Tri-ess but she thought she was wrong. Like I said her point is if you are alcoholic then you go to 12 steps. She couldnt understand that I needed support with people who feel the same way as me.

I stick with the most of us are born this way theory. I think regardless of your childhood which I am very sorry that you endured and abusive one. You were probably destined to be somewhere on the TG spectrum. My childhood was in a stable, protestant, 2 parent nuclear family with no abuse issues and from birth I was trying on my mom's clothes. Don't know why, don't care.

When you dress, do you become a complete alter-ego? Can you do something like Cybil, and not even know of your male existence? If you can't, then it's not a case of split personalities, and your NOT "fleeing" into an alter-ego to escape childhood abuse. Although it's a very rare phenomenon, seldom seen in The Psych World, you would be almost unique if this was the case of True Split Personalities.

So, lets try for something more reasonable! First Rule: "Don't let others do your thinking for you." Even around This Forum, we generate "opinions." You, The Individual, gets to listen to our good advise and then find your best pathway. YOU can pick and choose.....so, do so! Otherwise, we might be just like your wife; perhaps pursuing our own agenda's, and perhaps manipulating you...if you let us.

You have to follow your heart. If dressing is a need, and Y-O-U is satisfied with your choices, that's all that matters! Doesn't matter what we think. Doesn't matter what your wife thinks. Doesn't matter what Society thinks. Ultimately, it only matters what you think! Sure, it's a good thing to be considerate of others, and to try to get along with them. But, if following their choices causes you pain, don't be one of those foolish people who spends their life getting "jerked around".

Thanks for asking our advise. When this thread gets done, carefully consider what each of us has opined. Then, go Do Your Own Thing, whatever it might be!

Peace and Love, Joanie

I'm no expert by any means, but what struck me was not the issue of cross dressing. That is something that does not go away and something that you should not feel guilty about. What did strike me is that you may seem to be attracted to those that abuse you. A common trait for those that come from abused backgrounds. Your female friend seemed to accept you and then turned absuve. Your wife also shows some absuve attitude toward you. Maybe some counciling would be helpful.

I crossdress as an escape from abuse. I have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress. Pretending to be a woman as an escape is totally unrealistic, but it works for me. If it makes a difference, I had girlish hips from puberty until my thirties, which were likely a hormonal issue, as I have a male cousin with the same figure at the same age.

Perhaps it is time to see a psychiatrist, if only to rule out things like multiple personality disorder or your wife's claims, or both. I don't see any problem with using it as an escape, and I don't agree with your wife's ideas unless backed up by a psychiatrist. Remember, she is far too close to the situation to be objective and may be using her reasons to get you to stop. IMO she is not doing this in a healthy way.

If you choose to see a psychiatrist, s/he will likely ask for a session or two with your wife.

There is no intrinsic harm in crossdressing. It's what people make of it that causes problems. If I may say so, your own family does not sound like a positive influence.

I'm inclined to think your sexuality and fantasies are side issues at this point. Chances are very good you are a normal heterosexual male who likes to crossdress.

The abuse is more important. Don't let anyone else tell you who you are.

Many people grow up in abusive homes and do not become crossdressers. And I think it's pretty safe to say that most members here did not grow up in abusive homes. The two are unrelated.

That said, there's a lot of misinformation about the crossdressing in our society due to people's prejudices, their beliefs in the media stereotypes, and also the fact that transgender behavior is fairly rare and because of this somewhat closeted, and so most people don't grow up with first hand knowledge of what it's all about. It's a shame that people develop strong opinions on topics they know nothing of, but such is human nature I'm afraid. And it's an even worse shame that many people wish to remain unknowledgeable and refuse to learn.

It might be good for you to read more about it to inform yourself. You could always give your wife the information, but if she refuses to read it at least you'll know who you are and you can correct her when she makes false statements.

http://www.amazon.com/Husband-Wears-.../dp/096267625X

http://www.amazon.com/My-Husband-Bet.../dp/1560255153

EDIT
These two books are targeted for wives, but if anyone else has informative resources that target CDers, please feel free to post links here. Unfortunately when I google crossdressing I come up with a lot of erotic stories. :p

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Originally Posted by wrenchette2

[SIZE="4"]Does it really matter what the origin[/SIZE] is? [SIZE="5"]You are who you are. [/SIZE] Be okay with that. If your wife has issues with it then she can come here and get support through FAB or maybe go to counseling.

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With counseling and support such as this, I doubt there will be much help forthcoming. These are mindless excuses for not trying to find out who we are as human beings and why we do what we do as crossdressers. We are a product of our environment, our genetics, our psychology, and how we are nurtured. Popeye's notion is strictly for a cartoon. If a person wants to pursue that line of thinking for themselves, that 's OK, but it should not be pushed off as THE ANSWER. That there is one answer is very debatable, but it would be better to say I don't know rather that IAWIA.

Reine, Though I haven't read it, I understood that Alice in Genderland was from the CD point of view.

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Originally Posted by Scarlet Rose

I had a wonderful childhood full of love and support. It has nothing to do with your childhood other than a baggage of guilt and confusion, which your wife seems happy to exploit to make you feel bad. Presumably she is doing this to make you stop dressing because she doesn't like it, but her methods seem somewhat cruel to me.

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That work's for me too. I had a very good childhood, with much love from my parents.

If I had any abuse in my childhood, I certainly have no notion of it.

I won't say that I had a "happy" childhood, but my stressors were other kids, not my family. My family wasn't perfect, but they tried -- including the whole family going to therapy in order to learn how to communicate. I loved my family and did not fear anyone in it. We did a lot of things together as a family, and my parents never pushed me to be something I wasn't.

Hi Jennifer

I will give you one possibility of the path that has brought you to where you are at and you can match it against your own experience.

It first starts with a combination of genetics, epigenetics, maternal stress and diet, exposure to xenoestrogens as a fetus along with many other variables with the end result being your brain was not masculinized in the womb to create the atypical structure so when you are born you look like a boy but in many subtle ways do not act or feel like one. Check out "Disappearing Male" as an example of some of the reasons

These changes invite abuse because others sense weakness (think the opposite of the alpha male) and want to change you (make you a man ) or harm you because they know you are an easy target.

Feminine acting boys are at a much higher risk for sexual abuse because they are often physically pretty as well, abuse by their peers (bullying), physical abuse by the father who is embarassed, ect....

So you were born this way and probably some of the abuse was in part because of this. Child abuse is rampant and always has been but certain children are at a higher risk because it is easier to control them with fear or because they are lonely due to being rejected for their differences.

Questioning your sexual orientation and dressing are expressions of how you were created.

I experienced severe psychological abuse for being a feminine boy plus being this way my mind had fewer defenses against it so I felt the impact greater. I do not have hate of my body but I understand that the absence of maleness in me makes life difficult in ways unknown to others who do not experience this plus it creates the conditions that allow me to, and desire to, bend gender because I do not have a male identity that would feel threatened, no shame, guilt, embarrassment or any other kind of internal conflict that my external behavior would cause. It feels very natural to do anything a woman does and on a subconscious level I find I think,feel and move in ways more commonly associated with females.

Be careful in relationships because I have found that predatory and potentially abusive people are attracted to me, particularly women who want a relationship or men in matters of power structures. The same energies I communicated as a child are still being communicated as an adult attracting predators like a Shark that smells blood.

Feel free to PM me anytime.

Thank you so much everyone. I do feel better and thanks for the enormous wealth of advice, links, common sense, support and kindness. There has been some interesting things going on at home. The other day my wife used my laptop. She always has indicated she is clueless with computets. I was wrong. I was painting our dining room. I said something to her and she was looking at my history of sites that I viewing. She was upset and confronted me and one of them was indeed this site. I told her I was doing research about me. I know its not very courageous on my part. Anyway she was upset that I couldnt come to her. I held my cards close to my chest and didnt reveal too much. She admitted later that she has been kinda hard on me. I didnt really say too much. My wifes birthday is coming up and she opened some presents from family yesterday. She received some womens shower gel and a bar of pink soap and pink lotion. She said I could use the lotion if I wanted to and the pink soap on vacation. She then opened up this sponge (I know its not called a sponge but its related) that is light blue in color and this cocunut gel. She showed me how it works by you put your hand through the sponge and then pour the gel onto the sponge with lathers up. She said I could have it and put it right next to my shower stuff. I think she is trying to be fair to her. She is a great person and her heart is in the right place. She is my best friend and just wants me. Thanks again for the friendship here. I dont really have anyone to talk and it makes me feel good knowing you are right here.

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Monroe

She was upset and confronted me and one of them was indeed this site. I told her I was doing research about me. I know its not very courageous on my part. Anyway she was upset that I couldnt come to her. I held my cards close to my chest and didnt reveal too much.

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You were on the right track by telling her you joined here to learn more about this, but you lost it again when you decided to hold your cards close to your chest.

Most wives have an uncanny ability to know when something is withheld. And when we sense this, we come to the conclusion there is this huge dark secret that is even more important to our CDing partners than we are! :p This may not seem logical to you, but any attempt to not upset your wife will feel to her as if you're lying and she will feel betrayed. Please believe me.

A good approach would have been to have shown her your post and ask if she wanted to read any of the other threads with you. Then the two of you could begin communicating about what you're reading that fits, and what doesn't fit. There is a learning curve and when couples are on it, attitudes about the CDing don't stay static. They change until the CDer has found a level that he's happy with and THEN things stabilize again. :)

You should also ask your wife to register under her own name (we don't allow couples sharing a membership), so that she can join our FAB forum:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...f#faq_gg_forum

Thanks Reine for the sound advice...I just paniced and thought to keep my mouth shut. I will try and be more mature with communication. Thanks again!

I have read Alice in Genderland. She doesn't exactly give the reassuring picture many CDs want to communicate to their wives but it was certainly useful for my self understanding. Alice is not only CD, she is bi too and has a sexual relationship with s man alongside her marriage, notwithstanding her wife's preference that she didn't.

I was physically and emotionally abused as a child (I never experienced sexual abuse), and I don't know how that kind of trauma would not effect everything about a person, including their sexuality and ability to have a healthy, successful relationships. Many people who don't go through that kind of abuse growing can't really understand how it can rewire, distort and screw up someone's mental programming, how it can change you, how it can haunt you the rest of your life. Not everyone who is trans was abused of course, by any means, but I can see how it could have been a factor for at least some tiny, tiny minority.

It is ironic that today my parents are at me about having grandchildren and yet at the same time 20-30 years ago they never gave any thought whatsoever as to how the abuse I endured might affect their ability to have grandchildren in the future. Instead of growing up to be an abuser like him, I clung to my mother instead. A woman I once dated got angry at me and started going on about how my mother emasculated me... and she was right. My mother is not a cruel person, not a sick person, she never intended for that to happen... she knew no better coming from an abusive home herself, she had no concept of healthy parenting for a boy. Without a healthy male role model, where would I learn how to be a man, she wouldn't know how to do that. Now, I am an "emasculated" male that is not attractive to GGs (in the mate sense) and there little chance I will never meet an understanding GG, much less one who is understanding and fertile. Perhaps if my old man had though about that when I was growing up he would have spent less time punching me and my mother and more time teaching how to be a man, and teaching me about girls when I was a teenager things would have been different... I mourn what could have been if only things had been different...

As for Alice In Genderland, if one is hetero and faithful, I would not ever give that book to a wife who just found out; it is more likely to scare her than convince her that one is indeed a hetero and faithful dresser.

I would say that they are two separate issues that may be partly linked , you may dress some times to help to forget some parts of your early life but that may not be the whole reason for dressing , this is one occasion that i would possibly suggest getting some sort of help to deal with the abuse side of things to get that out of the way and then see how you feel about the dressing which i suspect will still be there afterwards and this is something you could mention to your wife in how would she feel about it if it was still there once you had dealt with the past issues in your life .

I was born this way had cd desires since age 4 or 5 had a very good childhood no abusive of any kind

This is the challenge of self discovery, to find "self" a person must move into, thru and beyond how they were affected and formed by the abuse. My own mother had no concept of boundaries. I was her property and she would do whatever she wished with "it" .

Parents are wounded by what their parents did to them and to make "normal" what was done to them so they can heal their own physic wounds they perform many of the same attrocities against there own children.

Many books address this "Trauma of the Gifted Child", Alice Miller is but one example.

Also diferent children are affected in different ways because each child has a different constitution so will respond differently to trauma much like how soldiers respond differently to war.

Watch youtube videos on shell shocked soldiers and you will understand what it feels like for some children to be abused. I personally had to be treated for PTSD because of what I experienced and most of my abuse was done by words not physical violence but I was born with a very sensitive and gentle nature so was an accident waiting to happen.

in my opinion most if not all of the psychological problems of adulthood have their roots in childhood but it is expressed differently by each person because our constitutional makeup is different.

http://www.psychohistory.com/ , http://ttfuture.org/bonding/love_violence

Purple, but remember there is a world of difference between abuse and discipline. None of it was done to correct and teach me, it was done out of hate and anger (and his childishness in general.) Sadly, in this day and age there is plenty of abuse, and very little discipline.

Silk, I can relate, my old man is in his late 60s, I am 4 inches taller and much bigger than he is, and I still have feelings of fear when (I have to) be around him.