what gives?

I was at the verizon wireless store in my city and there was an obvious dude in a dress. Not only was he dressed inappropriately but he was wearing the most god aweful makeup, heavy hooker, over exaggerated makeup. He wore a blonde wig and kept flipping his hair while talking to the very accomodating verizon rep. All the while wasting everyone's time saying that he was saving up for the phone he wanted. Really?? Is this how cd's want to represent themselves? I felt sad and embarssed for him. Is being a women just a joke for some? Why do some want to make such a mockery of being a women? That is not how any women I know represents themselves. So tell me what gives?

Sounds pretty tame compared to the pictures I see on the People of Walmart website.
I wouldn't worry about it. This person doesn't speak for me.

It's a tough one because he doesn't speak for me either bur like it or not, he affects perception of all who follow in his wake.

Some believe in our social responsibility, others not so much.

I was just in the verizon store!! Didn't think I was flipping my hair that much! Lol.

Doesn't speak for me either, and I have seen GG's look just as bad if not worse. I say ignore it and you will be much happier. One bad example does not represent anything, and is not even an example.

She may have been a total beginner who is really bad at putting her look together, but who knows? We really have no way of knowing what was going on, so I would hesitate to do any condemning.

Carol

Did he say "he was saving up" that is not cool she should have enugh money already. I would love to drag a man by his hair down the street while Xdressed does that help.

who cares as long as he is not in a relationship/embarassing a GG by the nonsense, what ever turns his crank, he knows how rediculous his presentation is. Make your own deductions from that.

Kitty
This person does not speak for me or the vast majority of us who in reality emulate females because of sincere appriciation for women. I can only speak for me but when I go out I feel a need to present as well as possible, for me and as to not lend to stereotypes of both crossdressers and women. This person obviously is incorrect about what it is to blend in. kelli

Kitty, I am very sensitive to the "appropriate" issue as well. I know some like the ****ty look for unknown reasons but that is not, what I believe, is the look that most of us crossdressers want. I respect women. I think they are beautiful and I never want to be a joke of a woman.

Probably an at&t rep. doing some espionage.

I don't like it much either, gives a lot of our Enemy's a bunch of ammunition. "Did you see that strange man dressed like a woman? God, they all seem to look like that!"

But, we have had this conversation before, and it almost always ends by people agreeing that no matter how God-Awful or strange, no matter how offensive, no matter how much like a **** or a weirdo they look like; we ALL have our "Bad Hair Days," and have no right to tell them how to dress or act! In this Country people have the Right to behave as they wish, as long as it doesn't effect The Rights of others. It probably hurts all of the rest of us in The T-Community, but we aren't in a position to judge if we want the rest of society to respect ALL of us.

Which is absolutely true! However, I just wish they wouldn't do it.

Peace and Love, Joanie

I'm guessing a massive extrovert that is not long into cross-dressing. Or maybe a dare.

:rofl:KAREN HUTTON YOU CRACK ME UP YOU CRAZY GAL:cheer:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

I was at the verizon wireless store in my city and there was an obvious dude in a dress. Not only was he dressed inappropriately but he was wearing the most god aweful makeup, heavy hooker, over exaggerated makeup. He wore a blonde wig and kept flipping his hair while talking to the very accomodating verizon rep. All the while wasting everyone's time saying that he was saving up for the phone he wanted. Really?? Is this how cd's want to represent themselves? I felt sad and embarssed for him. Is being a women just a joke for some? Why do some want to make such a mockery of being a women? That is not how any women I know represents themselves. So tell me what gives?

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Sadly this is how many not most CDers represent the rest of us. I have rarely encountered a CDer in public where they were not dressed completely inappropriately. I think you see this more because the rest of us that are more reserved are also too reserved to leave home dressed.

They may not have anyone at home to help them with their hair and make up and don't know any better.

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

I was just in the verizon store!! Didn't think I was flipping my hair that much! Lol.

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Karen you make me laugh. I seriously doubt that it was you I've seen your pictures and that was not even close to you. Sara, I agree it does affect perception. Similarialy, women who look over the top like barbie or have huge fake boobs also make a mockery of being a women in my opinion. It's hard to take the ones outside of the norm seriously.

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Originally Posted by CINDYO

who cares as long as he is not in a relationship/embarassing a GG by the nonsense, what ever turns his crank, he knows how rediculous his presentation is. Make your own deductions from that.

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But do you think he does know how rediculious his presentation is? When someone presents that way either male or female I am a tad bit offended. Women have fought hard to gain respect in this world and some still want to tear it down. Maybe its just to get attention? Some don't mind the negative kind. It's just puzzeling. I saw a women on a talk show the other day with boobs bigger than my dogs and lips to match. I'm also offended by that. Women are more than makeup, dresses, heels and boobs. Just saying.

Being ****ty and extreme is for parties where everyone knows who you are.

I have to agree, if anyone os going out they should definitly be dressed appropriatly, and act like you are representing all the crossdressers in the world.

For me I would never attempt the Verizon store dressed as a lady. I almost always want to choke someone by the time I leave there. And that would not be appropriate for a lady. :heehee:

I guess not everyone is perfect when they go out.

The sad thing is the better you look the less you are noticed in terms of passing.

I guess this person could have used some advice as to what they they need to do to improve

Maybe you should offer to help them Kitty ?

I don't know if this person was trying to make women look bad or not. A lot of them do fine in that department themselves. It may have just been a beginner who though they passed better than they did and did what they thought women do. Seeing your part of the community, you took it as an insult while others, if they even paid attention, thought of it as a joke or such.

I am not saying your not right Kitty, some dressers really go over the top when out but most you would never know they are there:)

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Originally Posted by NathalieX66

Sounds pretty tame compared to the pictures I see on the People of Walmart website.
I wouldn't worry about it. This person doesn't speak for me.

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And to think of how many people on here post about shopping at Walmart..... just saying LOL

I am really surprised someone goes out that way. I work real hard trying to pass. Don't think I succeed, but I would never put myself into that obvious a position. Like the comments of others, let's hope this was a "bet" or something out of the ordinary.

Not a look I would aspire to, but then neither is the "slob" look and I see plenty of both men and women dressed like that. At the end of the day we don't know their back story, so judging them based on a chance meeting in a store strikes me as somewhat harsh. Live and let live I say!

I'm bothered by anything that validates the negative stereotypes that many people have of crossdressers. Clearly there are a number of different flavors amongst our ranks, but it seems it would be best if those who abandon dignity in their clothing choices keep it private out of respect for those of us who are trying to increase public acceptance.

In the historical context, each civil rights struggle has been advanced by those who embraced their uniqueness with dignity, showing the world their best sides. Do we think that blacks, hispanics, or gays would have succeeded in entering the mainstream if the least dignified members were the most visible element? Please, if you're going to display in public, show the type of dignity that would make people proud to welcome you.

Miriam

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Originally Posted by YorkshireRose

Not a look I would aspire to, but then neither is the "slob" look and I see plenty of both men and women dressed like that. At the end of the day we don't know their back story, so judging them based on a chance meeting in a store strikes me as somewhat harsh. Live and let live I say!

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Thank you Rose, I was wondering if someone would say it before I got to the bottom of this thread! It sounds like the judgment police are up in arms again. I've been to walmart, and they are not the only one, I've seen women in the stores, in a old tee, and pajama bottoms, and things so scary I won't mention them here. I've never thought it reflected bad on all women, just the one standing there looking like a fool. Same goes for men, and crossdressers. Whewn you go out, you don't represent me, and I don't represent you. I don't care how you look, if you get read, then you didn't get away with it, and if you didn't, who knows your there anyway. So at least this fool, showed the world, men can wear what they want, the the world be damnned, a lot of us in the closet wish we where that brave!
Tina B.
"Judge not, lest yea be judged" I don't get to church, but I belive that's the way it goes.

:) I myself dress and go out dressed , some times with no make up on, o-well i forgot, but my idea of a women is too do your own thing, and build on that,, i seen lot's older males with there big guy glasses on and dressed, big no no, get a pair made into women glasses, mine are unisex, but like i said each to there own, i like too , and i know this sounds bad, but too study the women on the streets, for there fashion changes as the season changes, so i dress like that, i dont dress up as a sex toy, mayby that what this guy was doing and had too run too the phone store, were as he could have save time, by doing over the net, but i dont judge others , i just know whats works for me and i put lots hours in too shop for clothes and put on my makeup and stuff and since i work in a place with female teens of all ages , i pretty much can tell what there look is , would look good on me :daydreaming:

Well Kitty, you know my feelings on that. If you can't be yourself and take responsibility for your own actions ( by pretending to emulate someone and mocking them), you are just showing your ignorance and wasting everyone's time.:)

I wear socks with sandals, I wear white after Labor Day, my hair is not styled to imitate Kate Middleton, I wear jeans, I have Breasts but I don't wear a bra, I don't wear a slip, and (worst of all) some of what I wear is So Last Year.

If these things bother you, then feel free to move somewhere where you don't have to interact with me. I don't owe anyone to dress any particular way.

well, we've been down this road before and once again it is always fun to watch people who are so closeted they don't even have an avatar pic (on a CD forum!) advising others about how they should go out. I think it's a positive when ANYONE goes out even when it's embarrassing to those of us who consider ourselves "normal".

In this case the thread was started by a natal woman and she is entitled to her feelings. Keep in mind that a good bit of her enmity is very likely the result of a sort of reflexive defense of her CD friends on this board. She's not embarrassed for herself, she's embarrassed for other CD's. I think it's very sweet.

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

When someone presents that way either male or female I am a tad bit offended. .................. I saw a women on a talk show the other day with boobs bigger than my dogs and lips to match. I'm also offended by that.

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Maybe the problem is: you are too easily offended. It's your choice to be offended - or not.

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In this case the thread was started by a natal woman and she is entitled to her feelings. Keep in mind that a good bit of her enmity is very likely the result of a sort of reflexive defense of her CD friends on this board. She's not embarrassed for herself, she's embarrassed for other CD's. I think it's very sweet.

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Melissa this is how I read the OP.

Of course everyone is entitled to go out wearing what they want as long as they're not exposing themselves indecently.

Its a shame though if people judge all CD'ers by the unusual attire of the person described by the Kitty - I'm sure there are a lot more CD'ers out and about but they are well dressed and blending in so unfortunately its only the 'strangely dressed' ones that get noticed.

Nicole, I'm interested by your take on being offended or not - and Im not picking a fight but I'm genuinely interested - do you think being offended is something someone can choose or not? I'm not sure if that's possible. I'm inclined to think being offended is a bit like getting embarrassed - it seems to just happen whether you want it to or not. I cant imagine anyone consciously making the decision "oh I think I'm going to be offended by ..... today"

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Originally Posted by Silentpartner GG SO

do you think being offended is something someone can choose or not? I'm not sure if that's possible. I'm inclined to think being offended is a bit like getting embarrassed - it seems to just happen whether you want it to or not.

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I find that in both cases, getting offended or getting embarrassed, although the original "spark" might be something external, that it takes some time to "bloom", and that there is often (in my experience) enough time to think (at least briefly) before it has "taken over". Enough time to re-examine contextual clues about what is really happening; enough time to figure out whether the the person giving the potential offense is competent enough to be offended at; enough time to decide whether one is too tired to get offended or embarrassed right then; enough time to say "Hold on, I have a perfect right to do this, I'm not going to be embarrassed".

If something offends you in one context but not another, then in my opinion, Yes, you probably make a decision to be offended or not.

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Originally Posted by Shelly Preston

I guess not everyone is perfect when they go out.

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It has nothing to do with perfection, nor with passing. It has everything to do with being respectful of women in general and also being mindful of those who follow in our wake.

Take anyone who is part-time in presentation in public as a female. If the fire gets too hot after their little escapade, they can retreat to male mode and no one is the wiser. But what of the transitioning woman who might follow in her wake? Perceptions have already been created and she will be "one of them" to the Muggles who might perceive her as being trans.

Also, it's not like we are in a blind society where people muddle through doing the best they can without any education. Anyone can access a computer along with sites such as this one to actually learn a thing or two before taking those fateful steps into the great outdoors. Things are much different now than they were not so long ago when many of us did what we felt we had to do without the benefit of a lot of information or education but these days, there's really no excuse for not making at least a little effort.

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Originally Posted by Tina B.

Same goes for...crossdressers. Whewn you go out, you don't represent me, and I don't represent you. I don't care how you look, if you get read, then you didn't get away with it, and if you didn't, who knows your there anyway. So at least this fool, showed the world, men can wear what they want, the the world be damnned, a lot of us in the closet wish we where that brave!
Tina B.
"Judge not, lest yea be judged" I don't get to church, but I belive that's the way it goes.

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I originally said this was a tough one but I stand by my principles which are acutely refined based upon friendships with women who have transitioned and being witness to what they have to go through. I hold our community accountable, not to be a vision of perfection (gosh knows I'm far from that) but at least to be respectful of women and to make a sincerely decent effort when it comes to their presentation. If this is judgmental, then so be it. I see it as a form of social responsibility.

I can't speak for that person or what is going through their mind. The only similarity I have with that person is we are GM's and somewhere along the TG spectrum. The look presented is not the one I would ever want or intend to wear in public should I ever start doing so. Basically it's not for me, just the same as wearing pants falling off my waist exposing 3 pairs of shorts/boxer's underneath isn't for me in male mode.

I know the type, I've seen them too, but it's not the norm at least in the rather large CD/TS support group that my SO and I attend. Everyone has a different sense of aesthetics and yes, there are people out there who when they look at themselves in the mirror, don't see what everyone else sees. I've also seen non-TGs whose manner of dress sticks out, both men and women.

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

Take anyone who is part-time in presentation in public as a female. If the fire gets too hot after their little escapade, they can retreat to male mode and no one is the wiser. But what of the transitioning woman who might follow in her wake? Perceptions have already been created and she will be "one of them" to the Muggles who might perceive her as being trans.

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Urrr, I am one of the transitioning, and the major difference between what I do full-time, noted above (e.g., I wear white after Labor Day), compared to what my wife does, is that she is less likely to go braless.

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

there's really no excuse for not making at least a little effort.

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Excuse?? What, are we back to needing notes from our parents, "Please excuse Johnny-Jane for having wrinkled clothes today; we ran out of time because the toilet backed up." ??

You don't have to excuse what you choose to wear, and what I choose to wear is a fact not a matter to which excuses apply. If I wear a cross between a Kardasian and Johnny Rotton, then get over it.

Kitty, if the person wearing "most god aweful makeup, heavy hooker, over exaggerated makeup.", etc. had been a GG would you have mentioned it here, or anywhere? I doubt it, because then she would have simply been expressing her own style. The "heavy hooker" look was invented by someone, and it wasn't a CDer! :)

Freedom is the ability to make decisions for oneself, even those that are perceived as unfashionable by people who are easily offended. That particular CDer doesn't represent the CD community any more than a professional hooker represents the GG community.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

I know the type, I've seen them too, but it's not the norm at least in the rather large CD/TS support group that my SO and I attend. Everyone has a different sense of aesthetics and yes, there are people out there who when they look at themselves in the mirror, don't see what everyone else sees. I've also seen non-TGs whose manner of dress sticks out, both men and women.

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Well you have that right Reine. Everyone was very respectful of this person but his over characterization of women was really off putting. I agree this is a free country but I too think we have social responsibilities to present ourselves appropriately. If you want that kind of look perhaps you should knock yourself out in the evening at a club not the verizon wireless store?

i think if we as crossdressers shod look as good as we can after all we are trying to be women as best we can not to make fun of us from all the pictures of you girls you look great we shood wear what wont but look as good as we can no can look like a move star but we can be a good looking women if we wont

and i think it is about time some of us got off our high horses. It is not and never will be our place to determine how someone else should present themselves.

If we expect people to accept us as we look we have no business criticizing anyone else. Being overly critical of someones choice of dress or makeup is little different from criticizing someone with a physical deformity. Very bad form.

A good silent mantra for us is: "there but for fortune...".

Just MHO,
Sandra1746

there is really no way to know what the thoughts were in his mind. There are lots of troubled individuals who may or may not be taking their meds, and/or not thinking right at the moment. Must agree that it does deepen the hole that the rest of us have to work our way out of. I shudder to think what some GG's would think if they had seen me out recently, and i was really trying, but still, to some it would likely come across as a dumbass dude in a dress.

Barbara

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Originally Posted by Jocelyn Quivers

I can't speak for that person or what is going through their mind. The only similarity I have with that person is we are GM's and somewhere along the TG spectrum. The look presented is not the one I would ever want or intend to wear in public should I ever start doing so. Basically it's not for me, just the same as wearing pants falling off my waist exposing 3 pairs of shorts/boxer's underneath isn't for me in male mode.

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That and what about "plumber's crack" too? None of it is flattering.

I've seen many GG's with their butt cheeks hanging out of the bottom of their shorts, not wearing bras with their big udders hanging out the side of their shirts.

All of that is unflattering.

I can see what some people are saying though that putting one's best foot forward is the biggest step towards acceptance.

I also agree with Nigella's, Eryn's and Sandra-Leigh's responses. And to clarify my position. I do not really like that look on anyone I believe that it is rude for us to belittle someone else, especially in writing here as if some are trying to shame people who dress differently and who do not meet someone else's standards, because of how they look, dress, talk, or whatever. Sounds to me like they are talking down about them, which really turns my stomach when coming from members here that look, argue for, complain about the acceptance and tolerance that we get or do not get when out in the real world. I am not saying that one cannot look at someone else and think to themselves, "What a disaster!". But, when someone posts that, again especially here on this support site, I always wonder who gave them the right to be the Fashion, Look or Lifestyle Police, and who has the right to set minimum and maximum standards for criticizing others?

As for setting a bad example for us "others", it always sounds to me like some are trying to create more excuses and reasons for not doing what they want to do, versus just facing their own fears and testing the waters to see if the real world is really so bad, or just trying to get someone to adapt to their own standard of how to "be". I also wonder why the thread everything to a CD's bad representation of the rest of us, and doesn't consider nor mention (until later in the thread) the same thing about genetic males and females out there who have been doing the same thing all their lives in far greater numbers. There are always threads like this that serve no other purpose than to try to make others conform indirectly or directly to someones point of view. Admit it naysayers. We have all seen those weird genetic humans out there that may be disgusting (in our own point of view) and then we never make comments about how they are setting a bad example for the rest of their kind. Why? Because in the end they don't affect in any way what the rest of the world that really matters thinks. A little bit of bad press or exposure once in a rare while will not derail the progress that we are continually making. As I said in my first post here. Just ignore it as an aberration that does not hurt anyone. Life is a lot easier and happier for everyone that way. Enjoy and celebrate the diversity, which we are definitely part of.

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Originally Posted by Sandra1746

If we expect people to accept us as we look we have no business criticizing anyone else.
Sandra1746

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Totally agree Sandra, well said

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

I was just in the verizon store!! Didn't think I was flipping my hair that much! Lol.

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me too......:brolleyes:and I was at Wally World too.........:facepalm::o

I'm actually surprised at all the posts excusing the CDer and bashing Kitty.

Yes, each person should be allowed to wear what they want. And yet...

Each individual really does reflect on other individuals who are part of their group.

Many of us have said something like "doesn't speak for me", but in reality, typical people "hear" (see) the bad behaviour of the CDer and what they hear, to them, *does* speak for us.

I'd feel pity for the CDer, and I hope, had one of us been there to see it, might have taken pity and gently stepped in to smooth the situation out somehow.

How could someone have done that? What would they say, to whom, what else could you do to help people get along together?

This afternoon at the local (respectable) mall, as we were driving in the parking lot, we saw a young woman (18-19-ish?) skateboard by. She had shorter mousey brown hair unattractively cut; a lighter complexion; black lipstick; some kind of dark makeup that didn't suit her; a light turquoise dress that totally clashed with her complexion and makeup; and medium-thick black pantyhose with obvious ladders up both legs, with gaps big enough that surely they were deliberate.

She should have been ashamed of the image of young women that she was projecting -- Proper young women do not suddenly skateboard out from between parked cars!

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Originally Posted by dianne_1234

Each individual really does reflect on other individuals who are part of their group.

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I shake in horror at all of the CD, TG, and TS everywhere that I am letting down by not chasing every last dandelion in my lawn! What-ever must my neighbors think as I wave and say hello as I walk past them? That I am letting down My Kind by being no better than my neighbors, and that My Kind is getting Overly Familiar by Talking To Them Without Permission?

Think of this the same way you do when you see some of the younger guys in our society who wear a belt around their thighs so their pants don't drop all the way to their ankles- neither look is indicative of how most dress and neither should be confused as "this is the way everyone in that group dresses."

I have seen GGs on this site take great offense to posts from CDers who complain about women going out in public with chipped nail polish or looking less than feminine. I think we should afford the CDers the same courtesy we ask of them, and not post complaints about the way they choose to dress in public.