To me it's acceptance, even though true acceptance seems light years away.
Crossdressers are the little t. in LGBT. Enjoy this thrill ride anyway....dana
To me it's acceptance, even though true acceptance seems light years away.
Crossdressers are the little t. in LGBT. Enjoy this thrill ride anyway....dana
Pride Month is for people who are proud to be who they are. Not people who are ashamed and closeted. Most of the closet cases will be openly "disgusted" by pride parades and such, so that nobody would suspect that they are actually accepting of the LGBT community. Oh no, you can't be accepting and supportive, or somebody might automatically think you're wearing panties.
Pondering this issue makes me feel as tho my head is going to explode, so I am just going to slowly back away from my keyb.............................................. ...
Very good idea Michelle same here.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................
Same here.............................................. .... ............................................. ..........................................
:wave: Ooooo ooooo me me! I will jump in.
It only means something to you if you want it to. There you have it. If you want to sit at home and just ignore it, so be it. It is your prerogative. If you want to participate, then you can and as much as you are comfortable with.
I don't know if I would agree with the little "T" comment. There may not be more crossdressers than any other description you can come up with, or there may be more, but we all have numbers and we all matter.
I didn't have time to do anything to help with this year's festival or parade. But I certainly will entertain it in the future. We seem to have a lot of the young people doing the work so it would be good to get an old fogey in the mix. But we will see. As it is, the parade and festival are this weekend and I will go and probably have quite a good time. I am also meeting up with a dear friend I haven't seen in a while and a Facebook friend I hadn't met in person before. So go have fun with it.
Oh its pride month?! Well since I'm out of the closet I'm going to enjoy this wonderful occasion to the f--kin fullest! Now I have no reason not to buy a rainbow flag and prance around in femm when I'm in Rehobeth Beach next week :D
while I'm not going to go marching down the road with them, I will still applaud their courage. I don't know that closeted cases will openly bash them. I think that would be very hypocritical. There are plenty of NON-LGBT people in our society that have no problem with us and are very accepting. I don't think you would out yourself if you told someone "That's awesome for them!" You don't have to come out of the closet to be supportive. No one says you must be one of them if you are supporting them. Now with that being said... if you decorate your car with gay pride stickers and you carry the rainbow flag around, you might as well come on out. But just supporting them verbally is not outting yourself. If we don't set the example, we are doing everyone in this community a great dis-service!
Let everyone live to each is their own. We absolutely should encourage tollerance whether we are part of this or not.
I go out on a average weekend anyway but I make the effort to go be in the parade each year. I've marched in Boston's Pride Parade since 2007. The whole thing about Pride is to be visible. People can't pretend we don't exist if they actually see us in real life. I also take it as a fun time to get together with my friends and have a lovely day out in the city.
I will stand on the side and give my tacit support but I don't wish to come out fully yet.
EVERYBODY in my pride march knows each other and most respect your privacy.
Here I go dating myself again! But, I remember when the slogan was:
"June is dairy month!"
[SIZE="3"]:DI too wouldn't go march with the parade, but I an very proud of those that do! Carpe Diem!![/SIZE]:cheer:
We have a Pride festival here... but I don't really think it's a parade. I've never been though. My boyfriend is going to go to help out at the SAGA booth (San Antonio Gender Association)... basically a transsexual organization. I may go too if it's not too hot. We basically go so people who are transgender, transsexual or questioning and are looking for support can find it. We get new members in SAGA often, but Pride Fest usually gets several people to find us that otherwise may not have.
And of course, it's always good to show support for the entire LGBT community.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Whether I want to be in the closet or in the open or flaunting my CDing doesn't mean I can't be supportive of LGBT rights. Even if I considered myself severely closeted ( which I do not ) I am not ashamed of who I am or what I want to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
For Pride month to really be a success and for there to be LGBT rights it doesn't just have to matter to the people who are "proud" as you put it, but everyone. Once we have a situation where even people who are not part of the LGBT community (or even know someone in the LGBT community) care about LGBT rights then we will truly have equality.
It means whatever you want it to mean. I myself dont carry around a rainbow flag or have gay pride sticker on my car. I am not exactly ashamed of being a crossdresser though. People should be proud no matter the month.
And you would make a great "Dairy Princess" RS.:battingeyelashes::)Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
I'm out and proud, and I'll show my support, but from the cool air conditioning of a club in the neighborhood. I dress for fashion, not Texas in June outside!
I guess if we are proud of who we are as a person, we have it pretty much in the "bag". Participating in a parade or pride event would be optional I think.:)
Pride events aren't to boost your self esteem, they are to show the world we are out there and to push our goals of being treated as equals. But of course they are optional... lol. No one's forcing anyone to go and just because you are a member of the LGBT community doesn't mean you have to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Simmons
But gays, crossdressers and transsexuals aren't seen as normal members of society by a lot of people. They don't get the same rights as cisgendered people. The more exposure we get, the more people have to deal with us existing and slowly accept who we are and treat us like who we are... normal people that deserve the same rights and respect everyone else does. So it is beneficial if more people show up to these events... and if more LGBT people show the world who they are every day.
But if you are just a closet cross dresser and want to live the rest of your life that way, you probably have no reason to help members of the LGBT community, since to the rest the world you are a normal guy. But you might go anyway just to show your support for others who need it.
I would love to go in the June parade in my city but my SO would not like that idea. Maybe if it was in another city that would be ok.
I have to think that we are not alone in this area by having a lot of folks not in the LGBT community attending our Pridefests weekends! I know several non LGBT folks who are/were even on the board of directors for the Denver pride Center and Colorado Springs Pride center. Not to mention the folks in the Gay Straight Alliance (GSA) groups. I really think we can not belong to a group and yet still support others rights. The only way others are going to incriminate you by being there is if you let them and then you can ask how they saw you without being there themselves!
Dana
I don't have any problem whatsoever doing what I believe in. I do think it's someone else's turn to carry the ball though, I paid my dues long ago with two tours in Nam. I did this even knowing I was different from the mainstream but did it to ensure the rights we enjoy right now to be able to even have a Pride Month. Just because I don't directly participate doesn't mean I don't believe in it. Just wanted to set the record straight.:)
I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I didn't mean to imply you didn't do your part, or that you even had to take a part. I tried to make that clear that it's each individuals personal choice to participate or not, and not participating doesn't make you any worse of a person than if you did participate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Simmons
My entire post wasn't aimed at you... I was just kind of rambling. And to also set the record straight, aside from being myself, I've never attended any kind of Pride event. I was just trying to explain the benefits of attending and some reasons why different people would want to attend. Two tours in Nam is more than I've done... lol
That remains to be seen ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by darla_g
Well you agree with me right there. If it weren't for the support of "straight" people than there would be no parades. My point was about NOT being supportive. I basically have an ongoing bone to pick with the conservative types that inhabit this forum yet don't support us in the real world.Quote:
Whether I want to be in the closet or in the open or flaunting my CDing doesn't mean I can't be supportive of LGBT rights.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been openly gay since 2006 and I've never been to a parade much less been IN one. The point of pride isn't a parade, it's pride. It's about being proud that your are living YOUR life. Homosexuals no longer live in fear of coming out in most places. They can be themselves and actually be free to follow their heart. Pride is a celebration of that freedom. People who refuse to come out and live an authentic life don't get to experience that pride. I have had to come out TWICE in my life. Once as gay, and then a second time as trans a few years later. I am not proud to be trans as I had very little to do with it. I am proud however that I was able to face it and live the life I want to live without shame and fear holding me back. Some people have very good reasons for staying closeted and that's perfectly understandable, but there are NO good reasons for not supporting your community because you are afraid someone might think you are one of "them".Quote:
For Pride month to really be a success and for there to be LGBT rights it doesn't just have to matter to the people who are "proud" as you put it, but everyone. Once we have a situation where even people who are not part of the LGBT community (or even know someone in the LGBT community) care about LGBT rights then we will truly have equality.
I am NOT an advocate for coming out at all costs, but I have no tolerance for those that want the fellowship of our LGBT community but refuse to support us as humans with the same inalienable human rights. I have wonderful straight friends of course but these guys are REAL men and they didn't bat an eye about being seen with me back when I was an obvious CD or later when I looked like a femmy gay guy. They likely won't go to any parades, but their support came in real actions right up close. They didn't care what people thought because they were confident in who they are. Likewise my "pride parade" is every day that I get up and go to work as an obviously transitioning TS. Everybody knows, there is nothing I can do about it, but I face the world everyday ...and I'm proud of that.
It's always great to hear the opinions of the open minded. "The closet cases!" Couldn't you think of a more pejorative term for people who prefer to shun the limelight? I thought Pride was about people being free to be who they are and show if they wish, not as an obligation. Such comments as these clearly show the author does not embrace fully the message they purport to espouse. Maybe you too, have issues to consider? :straightface:Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
One of my sons, openly gay and currently working in America, has been on UK Pride since the age of 16 and is supported and loved by all of his family, so your generalising is off target.
Dana, have a great time, but as you say, true acceptance seems light years away. Sadly, even amongst our own forum.
Rebecca
Nope, I think closet case is pejorative enough to make the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by reb.femme
Your entire response doesn't seem to apply to my post at all. Your son sounds like a wonderful young man who deserves to feel proud of his courage to come out at such a young age and live his life openly, pride is not for closet cases to act proud while they remain anonymous. Pride celebrations are for people who are PROUD of who they are. How is this even an argument?Quote:
One of my sons, openly gay and currently working in America, has been on UK Pride since the age of 16 and is supported and loved by all of his family, so your generalising is off target.
You talk of acceptance, but only on your terms, ......makes you small minded then, which ever way you cut it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
What are you even talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by reb.femme
Doesn't mean anything to me. The Confucian in me finds little to be proud of.
I will state though, that having IRL friends might change that.
As much as we are still considered deviants, here, try having a Pride parade in a Muslim country.
I think the point that she is making is the same one that I was making. I was very offended not just for myself, but for a whole group of people here by your comment below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
You presume that people that are closeted should be disgusted and I don't know why you would say that or even know that fact. How can you possibly know what all these people are thinking? People come to this site for support and affirmation, not to get slammed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
I feel that the pride parades are only a symbol of a movement that everyone here should be able to support. This place is about tolerance and acceptance.
You say in your second post about me that we are in agreement - and we are about LGBT rights. My point is that you are doing a very bad job making that point and are alienating people in the process.
The original premise of this thread was whether crossdressers should care about Pride Parades and what they represent. I think the answer should be yes, you may not march or maybe not even attend, but you should be able to see that it is the right thing to do is be supportive especially at this time in history.
:yawn::yawn::yawn: Bored now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
Holy moly, I don't presume they SHOULD be disgusted. I presumed they WOULD be openly disgusted so they could continue to shield themselves from suspicion. I don't know if you've been paying attention but there is a huge HUGE conservative contingent on this board and many of them have admitted over the years to acting like they're against "gay rights" so their friends don't ask any questions. Even more of them say one thing here but actually vote AGAINST us in the political arena. Isn't it reasonable to assume that at least some closeted people might be ashamed of who they are, or at the very least not proud of it? I'm almost shocked into submission (almost) that this is even arguable.Quote:
Originally Posted by darla_g
well duh, but my whole point is there are some here who do NOT support things like pride parades. They want the fellowship (this forum) but won't publicly support our rights because they're afraid it would OUT them from where? ...yes the closet.Quote:
I feel that the pride parades are only a symbol of a movement that everyone here should be able to support.
well that's nothing new, good grief I call myself BadTranny, alienating people is practically my hobbyQuote:
My point is that you are doing a very bad job making that point and are alienating people in the process.
Hell I think the answer should be yes too. The sad reality is it isn't. I may or may not attend any of the gazillion pride events around the beautiful SF Bay, but I'm on the front lines everyday living my life right out in the open. I deal with people every single day who don't approve of my "lifestyle" and that's fine, but I would at least expect those that frequent a forum like this to be doing the right things and voting the right way out in the real world. Pride is not just a party, it's a celebration of the courage to live an authentic life and there are those on this very forum who would not openly support us because they are afraid of the association.Quote:
The original premise of this thread was whether crossdressers should care about Pride Parades and what they represent. I think the answer should be yes, you may not march or maybe not even attend, but you should be able to see that it is the right thing to do is be supportive especially at this time in history.
I don't know how much clearer I can be.
Keep it light! Great weather[usually],and many friends and new friends for a day outside.Seems like fun to me..What part of this sounds bad?
Pride is a big awesome fantastic party? Why not be involved? My grandma and I joined in the pride parade in Victoria once! You don't automatically end up gay because you were around gay people. It's not contagious or anything.
I've tried staying out of this because it's potentially a minefield, but I agree with Melissa. Part of the point is pride itself, the other is hypocrisy.
Pride events can be supported, whatever that means, but the real point is celebrating actually living what you are, openly, without fear, with assertion. There are degrees of this, including degrees of legitimate privacy very applicable to many people's lives. But the fact is that most in the forum are deeply closeted out of fear, excluding even their spouses. There's no pride in that - none at all, except a false pride in protecting an image of what you are not. And that's the source of the syndrome Melissa described that *some* do indeed have. The separation from the LGBT community is even represented in institutionalized form in organizations like Tri-Ess.
I've lived my share of this hypocrisy and I've felt the shame at what I am that kept me in the closet for decades. I have yet to fully reveal who I am to the minimum necessary for me to claim authenticity. Happily, I can claim support for rights through most of my life, and I do speak up, often quickly and sharply, when hateful speech aimed at LGBT people starts.
Compartmentalized thinking, self-defensive behavior, and exaggerated compensating mechanisms characterize people across the entire transgender spectrum. The fact that it OFTEN manifests as anti-gay or anti-trans attitudes really shouldn't surprise anyone or be controversial - it's commented on sufficiently in the psych literature.
It doesn't have to be overt, either. Most of the transsexuals here can attest to the fact that part of the psychological struggle in coming to accept their transsexuality is dealing with their own transphobia ... even though they thought of themselves as tolerant and supportive. In turn, many crossdressers are deeply disturbed by any discussion of bi or homosexual thinking in connection with crossdressing because of internalized homophobia.
Pride is open pride. Support is genuine support, not assent, not lip service. The real-world support implications from the psychological fallout seriously affects people's lives. I know everyone reading this knows that. I wonder if they realize how their (and my) justifications contribute to that.
Pride indeed.
I may be living an inauthentic life, but I openly support LGBT rights AND I always vote NDP.
:)
Does that count?
Acceptance is not light years away. I can say that being one of the "older" ladies and having seen the changes over decades. We are so much more accepted than we were in the 70's and 80's and much of that is thanks to the TS ladies who paved the way for acceptance by being strong and not fearing society's ire.Quote:
Originally Posted by drushin703
Pride, someone said is for all of us. Pride in who we are, not because we are gay or bi or Lesbian or T, but because we are human and should be proud of ourselves. It should be celebrated by all.
For those that haven't gone to a Pride Festival, try it. You don't have to go dressed if that isn't in your comfort zone. But if you do, look around at the people that are attending. Given the types of dress and the items being sold at booths, you probably aren't getting too many close minded people attending. But you will see all variations of dress among mainly the younger crowd. You will see older couples who have come to learn and enjoy themselves. Basically, you can see anything. And there are a fair percentage of people who aren't LGBT attending. So are we getting through? Just look around a little.
Now I am not saying this to push anyone to go out in the name of "support". Just a statement that it is possible and the support from the general public is growing. I believe that the example Cheryl gives about acceptance getting better is true. We will see a lot of changes because I firmly believe that the younger generation is far more accepting and that will make changes happen more as the years pass and their attitudes become the majority.
While I don't think it was your intent to convey this message, "just a crossdresser" implies a hierarchy, and that those who enjoy crossdressing without being "burdened" by gender issues are somehow inferior to those who are. Hopefully it is just a bad choice of words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bree_K
Veronica
Rebecca,Quote:
Originally Posted by reb.femme
I get from your post that you openly support LGBT rights, despite the fact that as a crossdresser you remain entirely private?
Here's how I see it - if dressing is something that you are happiest just doing at home, and that it doesn't make you feel ashamed to think of someone else seeing you, if you accept who you yourself are and that dressing makes you feel happy, not guilty - that's totally okay. Just because a 'closet' is in a 'bedroom' doesn't mean someone who stays in the bedroom (or, heck, the living room?) is going to have to stay in the ashamed little closet. In fact, if a person's cross dressing is entirely sexual in nature, or all they want to do is wear panties, I don't need/want to know about it because I expect you to respect my privacy and in turn I respect yours.
However, if you're ashamed of who you are and can't accept yourself, you are more likely to try and hide it (and go overboard in hiding it by being openly homophobic or transphobic.) It's those people who are ashamed of who they are, who are so stuck inside their tiny, "OMG, everyone will judge me and hate me and I'm a horrible person and not a real man because I like to be feminine sometimes! No one must suspect!" closets who are not free to acknowledge their true selves whom I think Melissa is referring to as "closet cases."
FWIW, I think that absolutely everyone can - and SHOULD - go to Pride, be out there, be happy and learn that it's not a big, scary, judging-other-people event. Far from it. It's a big, sparkly, fun, open-minded party and the more people out physically showing their support for openess in the community (however they are dressed), the better!
Like I had posted before, I went with my Grandma once. She's a spunky and awesome 84 year old who dresses a bit like the Queen and is spry like she was fifteen or twenty years younger, although the last time my brother and his wife visited she had a little bit of trouble with getting in and out of their lifted Jeep. She's also a conservative old British Northerner who can be kind of racist sometimes, and kind of prudish sometimes - so when she suggested that we go to Pride (I had been kind of planning to go on my own, and was trying to figure out how to let her know I was going to leave her on her own for the day) I was a little surprised, and worried that the sort of PDA that I'd seen at my hometown Pride festival would happen and totally disgust her. It didn't, though, and we had an absolute blast watching the parade! Every. Single. political candidate in the region had a float and was handing out stuff, as was every big touristy destination, like Butchardt's Gardens and the local castle - clearly they think openly accepting the GLBT dollar is good for business!) we joined in the end of it and danced to the festival grounds where we wandered around the booths, which were a mixture between vendors, local businesses like the radio station giving out freebies and information - there was a really great booth on opting in to sexual acts and the 'yes means yes' movement that I can remember, and a couple of booths where there was information about the legal status of homosexuality around the world - including the places where being openly gay is a crime punishable by death. It was really moving - because NO ONE should be put to death because of who they love.
When we were wandering (and not just giggling at the rainbow coloured penis shaped lollipops) I got a picture of my grandma with a burlesque group. There was a hairy leather biker guy in a skirt who we kept seeing, and although I wanted to go and say hi and start talking to that fellow, he kind of freaked out my grandma because she thought he looked dangerous and talking to him might get him mad. We watched a drag queen and a drag king (both of whom my grandma was CONVINCED were actually the gender they were presenting, and I had to explain that it wasn't the case and they didn't just have really slickly dressed up performers - I'm not sure she ever really believed me about the drag king), then a stripping burlesque show where we got a bit more of an eyeful than I think they had intended, as one of the girls' pasties fell off! (The burlesque and drag performers where in a beer garden, so minors weren't exposed to the exposures.)
Anyway, my point is that it was a lot of fun, I learned stuff as did my Grandma, and nothing bad or ugly happened because we were there and we got to see how really integrated into the whole fabric of the city the GLBTTQQIA community really is - and that the Pride community truly is a part of the best of the whole community.
Even if you're not openly dressing, or running a booth, or marching in the parade - if you are able to, please do go to a Pride event. Even just to see what it's all about. These events are big, they're more stable every year, and if you have to tell your family that you're just curious and you want to see what the big deal all is because you heard they were expecting XXXXX people this year and surely there aren't THAT many gays in your city so let's go to this family friendly bit in the park, well, getting there is half the fun, right?
It only implies a hierarchy if you have some sort of self esteem problem. Seeing as how you changed my words, that's probably what's going on... I said if you are just a CLOSET cross dresser (as in... not OUT). You're in the closet, not out in public being yourself and being proud of it. So there wasn't even any comparison of cross dressers vs transgender vs transsexual. It is closeted vs not closeted and if supporting LGBT rights would benefit them personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica27
I think the issue should be about LGBT rights and not whether it benefits or doesn't benefit someone else. It's about basic rights that people should have and not whats in it for me.
I think there are some that feel that if something is gained by one group then its taking away from someone else. Gay Marriage is case in point.
oh sweet, i didn't even know it was pride month, but i did hear that this weekend in indianapolis its a pride parade. I wish i'd realized it sooner, then i may have seen if my friend who isn't yet comfortable with the idea i like to dress wanted to go down to Indy with me and me be dressed. I'm closeted to my family but my close friends know and I've been to Pride festivals in August every year now and plan to this August in Lafayette, Indiana. but i kind of hope when i'm in las vegas in 3 weeks that maybe they'll have something going on for pride month. It's a great day to feel proud that i'm a crossdresser and out to my friends.
Kendra
I would love to participate, but many of the media that will be shooting the event are friends. Too big a risk.
I remember a dad of one of the girls on my daughter's softball team. The girls must have been about 8 or 9 and mine had been playing for a few years. He said this was her last year in softball. He was taking her out because, "--everyone knows all them older softball girls r gay". And, he didn't want his daughter to be gay! I bit my tongue real hard during that remark!Quote:
Originally Posted by Babeba
Dropping the word "closet" was purely an unintentional oversight, as the point of my response was the use of the word "just" to describe any subgroup of the larger community. In fact by including "closet" in your statement, you reinforce the point I was making. Again, I don't think that it was your intention to be condescending to any specific group, as I have read many of your postings, but the word "just" implies a form of inferiority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bree_K
Veronica
I think this is one of the points here. When someone says something that stupid, and concerning the kids they are raising, I will not be little polite pc Dad and keep my mouth shut. That type of bigotry and stupidity from a parent is dangerous to that child. I'm not out to everyone but my views are the same whether I'm a CD or some random straight guy. I don't keep them to myself and I won't let the close minded spout off in public and expect to get treated like "normal" people. Hate in any form should be confronted so that they know that it's wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
And I have to agree with most everything Melissa has posted. Yeah...you can be private, and closeted, and not OUT all you want. Her point was that it was hypocritical to not find a way to support the rights for others. Attend the parade or don't. Try correcting some friend when they make a bigoted comment. Vote for someone who is for ALL people and not just the people who look, act, and talk like them. It's not always about YOU. Sometimes it's about everyone else.
[SIZE="2"]I have a lot of problems with the word “pride,” so I never use it in conversation. Everyone is proud of something these days, and pride, once a deadly sin, is now seen in an entirely new light. Pride implies a high opinion of oneself, as if you’re speaking from a position of superiority. It can also mean dignity, self-respect, or satisfaction. I can maintain my dignity without being prideful, I have plenty of self-respect, and I am reasonably satisfied with what I have accomplished as a MtF crossdresser, but I wouldn’t dream of being PROUD about something as natural as being transgendered...Quote:
Originally Posted by drushin703
The thing is, I had nothing to do with being a crossdresser, a sub-variation of the “T” in GLBT. I might as well say something like “I’m proud to be an air-breather,” or “I’m proud to be a human being.” I had nothing to do with it! Oh, I had the courage to dress up as a form of expression, but the desire to do so was already in place – how can I be proud of a blessed accident? I’m HAPPY to be a MtF crossdresser, I’m HAPPY to be different, and I’m HAPPY to have met many other pilgrims along this twisting transgendered path, but don’t expect me to express "pride" about it. In any event, I see pride as a masculine thing, which, under the queer circumstances I find myself, would be sorely out of place and out of step with effeminacy...
Since PRIDE goeth before a fall, I wish to remain upright at all times... :straightface: [/SIZE]
I don't need a special day or month to be proud of myself.