Was told it was wrong, wrong, wrong...

I stopped at a nail place I don't normally use to get a fill today. While the teenager who was removing the old polish from my nails did his thing, his little brother started asking me questions about why I looked the way I did. He was clearly confused and while I do my best to blend in, up close I am what I am.

He eventually figured out that I was a man and decided he needed to yell that. Then he started stomping around yelling "that's so wrong" over and over. His brother, and I presume his mother, eventually stopped him, but it was a strange experience.

His mother rushed through getting my nails done and did an OK job. I figured there really wasnt any point in complaining about his behavior; his whole family knew it was innappropriate and eventually dealt with him. The little kid was maning the register when I paid and wouldn't make eye contact; I have a feeling he wont have a positive view of the CD/TG community anytime soon.

FWIW, I was appropriately dressed for a 90 degree humid day; shorts, polo shirt, forms, wig and day makeup. Other than dirty look from the clerk at CVS at the end of the day, the rest of my errands were uneventful, with clothing store assocites just calling me ma'am, and people holding doors for me and such.

At 6'4" and not slim, I tend to stand out. But people rarely seem to care.

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Originally Posted by Kali

I have a feeling he wont have a positive view of the CD/TG community anytime soon.

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You can't expect unconditional acceptance from everyone.

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Originally Posted by Voulez-Vous

You can't expect unconditional acceptance from everyone.

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I don't actually expect acceptance from anyone (though my wife is amazingly accepting and supportive). In my experience, however, kids rarely care, so the behavior was unexpected.

Adults I expect not to act out; beyond that it is what it is.

Don't know the age of the kid, but he definitely doesn't appear to be mature enough to appropriately interact with adults. Sorry he was there for you. I agree, typically young children are non judgemental. I have a feeling the adults in his life have expressed views similar to what he espoused, but they kept quiet. Hope you can get back to your usual salon.

Barbara

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Originally Posted by Barbara Ella

Don't know the age of the kid, but he definitely doesn't appear to be mature enough to appropriately interact with adults. Sorry he was there for you. I agree, typically young children are non judgemental. I have a feeling the adults in his life have expressed views similar to what he espoused, but they kept quiet. Hope you can get back to your usual salon.

Barbara

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The kid was about 8 years old. This is the only salon I've ever had an issue with.

I have a TS friend that I have known since we were in Kindergarten. She is very much a woman, and very hard to read that she was ever anything but. She told me that its usually little kids that read her. Teens and Adults normally are very accepting. I have often wondered if that is just because childeren don't have that brain to mouth filter figured out yet. Childeren are good at stating blunt thuths and don't realize how much it can upset someone (Not that it upset you). I would hope that working in a nail salon, they would help the child learn tollerance for others life styles. There's always hope for a child.

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Originally Posted by Kali

The kid was about 8 years old. This is the only salon I've ever had an issue with.

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that sounds about right for an 8 year old ... as humans we aren't instinctively respectful and tolerant, that's learned behavior.
With any luck he got a quick lesson in respect and tolerance from his parents once you left ... or at the least the "trans dollars are the same as regular dollars" lesson :-)

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Originally Posted by Kali

The kid was about 8 years old. This is the only salon I've ever had an issue with.

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I went to a nail salon for a Mani Pedi while I was out doing Christmas shopping last year. I asked the lady (She was an older Asian lady) if she could throw some clear coat on my nails. She seemed very taken back by it. She kept repeating over and over, "Ok you want them shiney","You want Shiney nail, ok..."... I felt a little awkward, but I was ok with it. I took my nice shiney nails and sat under the drying table for a bit and they looked every bit lovely. I haven't been back to get my nails done since then though. I plan on it when I get a little bit of play money in the purse.

I wonder what would have happend if I told her I like to dress up as a woman? LOL:heehee:

I think I would have got up and left with out paying for anything. there are plenty of places that will accept us as we are. It would teach the mother that the kid isn't mature enough to be around her customers. He may start bugging her other gg customers and being rude then where would the mother be. Out of business.

Hi Kali, Note to self never return to that salon EVER!!

Kali,

Sorry this happened to you Hunny Bunny.

Lets play the recording backwards cause you are not wrong.

This is so right right right. Now are you nodding your head in a vertical manner.

Lets do it again while nodding your hear in a yes fashion..

This is so Right Right Right

Now look down at your pretty painted tootsies, that looks nice doesn't it.

Don't hold on to this. Does not have to stay with you let it go, open the widow and let it float away.

♥
Noemi

Noemi -

I have no self-image issues regrding how I look.

And I never get color on my toes ;)

Gee .... so sorry to hear this. Ok, I get that the kid was not TG aware, but to say out loud "that's so wrong" ... well, IMHO if he's 8 years old, that comes from the way he is brought up. His parents probably think the same thing but they are are old enough not to say so out loud and because it's not good business sense either. It's funny though as in my experience younger people tend to be more accepting ... maybe 8 is too young for that level of tolerance.

The flip side of this story: I've been going to the same nail tech since 1999, and have followed her to five different locations in that time. I have an appointment at least every two weeks and often in between as well, and always present fully dressed. My tech has two nieces who often hang around the shop, presently ages 15 and 9. I've watched them grow up and they, too, have been around me pretty much all their lives. They are TOTALLY accepting of my appearance and style and completely regard me as a member of the family. I help them with homework and have even driven them around town to various activities a time or two when their aunt needed a hand. They often offer compliments about my clothes, shoes, jewelry and so on, and I try to return the favor when I can. (The older one is really cute and fashion conscious!) The younger girl has expressed an interest in maybe doing hair or nails herself and is really building up her skills in the salon. If kids are brought up around people of different orientations or lifestyles from the beginning and are actively taught that it's all good and normal, they can be remarkably tolerant and accepting. These two will go into the world with no prejudices about us and that will make things just a tiny bit easier for the next generation.

- Diane

Kali, I am sorry you had to experience this, but it sounds like you're pretty comfortable in your own skin. Good on you for that! *Hugs*

I had a similar experience at my cousin's place this weekend. The parents both know I dress and struggle with my self identity. They are supportive, but I found out they have been teaching their children that what I do is wrong. I always present male to the children, and they have no idea I dress, but when a comment about the younger boy wearing his sisters shoes to school, they all reacted negatively to the 'joke'.

I'm the last person to be offended by a joke, but when their son asked why someone would want to (in this case wear his sisters shoes), he was told that they shouldn't, it was unnatural, and wrong. I was sitting right there at the table, and neither parent would meet my eyespot the rest of the meal. I love them all, but it hurt deeper than I expected, so I feel for ya.

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Originally Posted by Amy R Lynn

I have a TS friend that I have known since we were in Kindergarten. She is very much a woman, and very hard to read that she was ever anything but. She told me that its usually little kids that read her. Teens and Adults normally are very accepting. I have often wondered if that is just because childeren don't have that brain to mouth filter figured out yet. Childeren are good at stating blunt thuths and don't realize how much it can upset someone (Not that it upset you). I would hope that working in a nail salon, they would help the child learn tollerance for others life styles. There's always hope for a child.

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Kids are very good at reading between the lines. They pick up on body language and nuances in speech very readily. Understanding a situation and how you react to it are two different things. They have the ability for the first part, but not the sophistication for the second part...

well, it sounds like you handled the situation with poise and grace and that is the most important thing, in my estimation. I've never thought it was particularly helpful to raise a big fuss. Thomas Jefferson once said that nothing gives one person more advantage over another than to remain cool and unruffled under any circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Barbara Ella

Don't know the age of the kid,

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That's what I thought too. I wonder if he is at that age when all his friends are defining what a man is and what a girl is ( I say girl because at that age boys think they are men and all the young females are girls and targets while women are older and remind them of their grandmother). His point of reference was probably what some punk kid he knows told him. I sort of feel sorry for the parents but they should have seen that coming and already discussed how money is green no matter who spends it.

Just read something on another site this evening;

Prejudice is not inherent to our nature it is something we learn from others.

Personally, Kali, I've come to EXPECT that wherever and whenever I go out dressed! Because to many people it IS wrong!

Everywhere except HERE, that is!

Like others have said, kids that age tend not to understand things and don't know when they they things that it could hurt someone else's feelings. It is awkward when it happens. especially when in public..I'm sure one the little boy is older, who knows, he might not feel the same about it!

Children are guileless, and will often blurt out things which are not necessarily P.C.. But, since he did blurt it out, he must have heard it somewhere, (like around his Family or friends) and I don't think you would be wise to go back there and ever give them any more money. I am sure your not The First T-Gal who ever patronized The Establishment, and probably it was Family commenting on some other customer which gave him his quaint ideas!

One sure way to make Mom think, (regret?) is to lose business. I'd also be thinking about informing any other gurls who might give them business, to take their patronage somewhere else.

Peace and Love, Joanie

Hopefully the parents will take the opportunity to teach the boy about the diversity in life or at least how not to run the paying customers out the door.

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Originally Posted by diane elizabeth

i think i would have got up and left with out paying for anything. There are plenty of places that will accept us as we are. It would teach the mother that the kid isn't mature enough to be around her customers. He may start bugging her other gg customers and being rude then where would the mother be. Out of business.

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>> true---dat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've had a couple experiences like this with kids. They are so indoctrinated with the societal gender that sometimes they can't see beyond that. My 5 year old nephew is a bit like that. My sister is completely accepting, but there are times when my nephew will say things.
I've found that parents will generally quickly correct the situation, which actually gives me hope for the human race :)

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Originally Posted by Barbara Ella

Don't know the age of the kid, but he definitely doesn't appear to be mature enough to appropriately interact with adults. Sorry he was there for you. I agree, typically young children are non judgemental. I have a feeling the adults in his life have expressed views similar to what he espoused, but they kept quiet. Hope you can get back to your usual salon.

Barbara

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I agree completely with you Barbara.... the child was mearly showing the real feelings of his mother

At eight I'd say the child probably is building his viewpoint of how life should be. His behavior was not appropriate for the workplace. But, he's eight. He needs some direction in expressing his opinion. He needs some instruction on accepting others for who they are. My daughter when she was very young saw a bus driver with long hair. He was truly a man's man with a pony tail and a beard. She just could not understand why a male had a pony tail. The hair style was for a female. She never heard any family discussion concerning hair length/style or anything about gender specific attire, etc. My daughter turned out fine, and, is a staunch supporter of self expression.

I'd just take my business elsewhere, where I had been accepted previously.

Maybe the boy has some fillings that he don't under stand and that's why he over reacted.

Sorry you had to listen to that boy's rant, Kali.

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Originally Posted by *Vanessa*

Just read something on another site this evening;

Prejudice is not inherent to our nature it is something we learn from others.

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This is exactly correct. The only question is who taught this boy about the contents of his little rant. It might be his peers, and it might be his parents.

I might have had something snappy to say to the kid about driving away paying customers from his mother, and in a voice loud enough his mother would be able to hear.

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Originally Posted by Ashley D.

Maybe the boy has some fillings that he don't under stand and that's why he over reacted.

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Fillings? How does his dental work figure into this?

I would've walked out and let them know I would let everyone I know to stay clear of that place!

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Originally Posted by Kali

At 6'4" and not slim, I tend to stand out. But people rarely seem to care.

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A certain percentage will care, but will not confront you due to your size. I work in a female dominated profession; one that is routinely made fun of, and I know this, because I used to be included when jokes about it were told. Since I became 'one of them', no one says anything. But I'm aware that they simply don't say anything around me. When you're bigger and stronger than 99% of the guys around you, and can clearly break them in half, they're not going to confront you openly. What gets said behind your back is something else altogether, because I used to hear it said about other people until I was one of them. Still, that doesn't mean I want to be 'out' and have to fight my way through life like the proverbial 'boy named Sue' just to prove that I'm not gay.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

A certain percentage will care, but will not confront you due to your size. I work in a female dominated profession; one that is routinely made fun of, and I know this, because I used to be included when jokes about it were told. Since I became 'one of them', no one says anything. But I'm aware that they simply don't say anything around me. When you're bigger and stronger than 99% of the guys around you, and can clearly break them in half, they're not going to confront you openly. What gets said behind your back is something else altogether, because I used to hear it said about other people until I was one of them. Still, that doesn't mean I want to be 'out' and have to fight my way through life like the proverbial 'boy named Sue' just to prove that I'm not gay.

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I have zero concern about what strangers say behind my back, and I'm not sure why I should be concerned if they thought I was gay; that seems like a bit of a nonsequitur. I just expect people to treat me with the respect that they themselves would wish to be treated.

Group mentality is one thing, individuals are another.

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Originally Posted by Kali

I have zero concern about what strangers say behind my back, and I'm not sure why I should be concerned if they thought I was gay; that seems like a bit of a nonsequitur. I just expect people to treat me with the respect that they themselves would wish to be treated.

Group mentality is one thing, individuals are another.

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EXACTLY,,, Hell let um talk about ME,,,, Then there leaving some one else alone that might be worried about what dummys think . BOO,,,, Ill make ya FAMOUS !!

It seems you handled it well. He was the one who made a scene and he'll have to deal with the consequences.

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Originally Posted by Kali

I stopped at a nail place I don't normally use to get a fill today. While the teenager who was removing the old polish from my nails did his thing, his little brother started asking me questions about why I looked the way I did. He was clearly confused and while I do my best to blend in, up close I am what I am.

He eventually figured out that I was a man and decided he needed to yell that. Then he started stomping around yelling "that's so wrong" over and over. His brother, and I presume his mother, eventually stopped him, but it was a strange experience.

His mother rushed through getting my nails done and did an OK job. I figured there really wasnt any point in complaining about his behavior; his whole family knew it was innappropriate and eventually dealt with him. The little kid was maning the register when I paid and wouldn't make eye contact; I have a feeling he wont have a positive view of the CD/TG community anytime soon.

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I would have paid maybe three dollars for the removal of the old nail polish, called the boy's mother over, and said,"I am walking out of this place, I'll never come back, and I will tell my friends to avoid your place of business."

You don't allow relatives to treat customers like that.

John

Ok i'm the newbie here, but in England it goes like this- the child needs a swift cuff around the ear, it will discourage him for next time, also lets all concerned know that we might be "different" but we don't take no s-it from no-one!

Next time get up on the spot and walk out the door. Say to the tech, hey I don't need this so I will leave.
Its too bad its not like growing up in the 70's, when you acted up and didn't quit making a scene, out came a belt or an orange Hot Wheel track and that was that.

Most of us were taught that it is wrong, and as kids, we zealously defend that. I agree with Doc, that most people even silently are uncomfortable or do not approve of it. We have to be like secret, or double agents, when in public.Most religion says it is wrng.

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Originally Posted by Kali

I have zero concern about what strangers say behind my back, and I'm not sure why I should be concerned if they thought I was gay; that seems like a bit of a nonsequitur. I just expect people to treat me with the respect that they themselves would wish to be treated. -----------------------------

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Respect? That's the LAST thing I expect out dressed, Kali! I'd be satisfied if they didn't belly laff and point rite in my face! Or would stop chasing me with pitchforks and torches! But then, I'm a little girl. So, no one is going to fear ME!