Confrontation: Run or fight?

katie_barns Posted a thread about an bad experience she had recently. Not to hijack her thread, I have made this one to ask what I would have over there.

You can read her thread here: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...willl-robinson

Are we really that feminine as CD's that we will always walk away, or run, from a confrontation from bigoted or holier than thou people?

Now, I believe that Katie did the right thing and walked away. I will always believe ,whether enfemme or not, that avoiding a confrontation is ALWAYS the best coarse of action but if everyone walks away doesn't this send the signal that they can continue this behavior at will? Continue to teach their kids wrong so they can keep the vicious cycle going?

As a closeted dresser, I personally don't have to worry about this sort of behavior at this point in time, but at some point I do want to go out and I may come across this very situation when I finally do.

How would I have handled this? I have always considered this part of my life as part of who I am as a whole person. I love dressing as a woman on a part time basis. I also love my male side and My male side wouldn't tolerate this behavior. Would my male side quickly become dominate?

I am not saying that I would start throwing fists but I surely would have had just as harsh of words as they had for Katie. If the man would have followed me out of the store I surely would have stopped and said "I wouldn't follow me much further, you'll limp back"

Would that have been wrong or would it have shown that as a CD We are not any lesser of a man?

Questions, questions, questions.....

Sometimes people are just looking for an excuse to hurt us. You're not going to change anyone's mind or gain anyone's respect by shoving a fist in their face or proving you're bigger than them by yelling louder. Also, if things got out of hand, there was no guarantee that anyone would have come to her aid. It could have even been the opposite. It could have been a mob against her.

"turn the other cheek" can mean lots of things. I think it can mean turn the other cheek and walk away.

i agree, its kind of the same with other things, bullying for example, sure tell the teachers/tutors about whats happening, walk away, but it comes to a point when that doesn't work, what then? just stand there and take abuse? Most of us can be civilized and do what is right but personally if i feel i've done all i can and it doesn't stop, especially if i feel threatened then i will take action and stand up for myself. Crossdresser or not it doesn't matter, at the end of the day we just want to do what we enjoy and i'm sure many would agree if all else fails then confrontation seems to be the only way to do it.

.a lot would depend on the actual situation i think . personaly i dont back down regardless of the odds etc but thinking it through it might be better to walk away than be in a cell looking like something the cat dragged in .

a bit off topic but thought i would mention that ive seen examples where a girl got into violent confrontation and ended it with a few swings of a highheel :-) .

You have to pick your battles. Putting yourself in a situation where you could be hurt is silly and getting out of there is a good option. Being in a situation where you may be able to use your communication skills and confidence to change someone's behavior or mind may be worth sticking around for. But it's difficult to overcome years of prejudice in a 10 minute conversation and unless you are a MMA champ in heels, the fight may not be worth the principle involved.

I really don't know because like you said I don't go into places right now that would present a simular circumstance. I do know my temper and Fran is just an extention of me. The thing that made me think about how I would take a slightly different and more thoughtful reaction is, if I had reacted as normally I would we'd all be at the county jail, and that is not an option for me! So I would do my best to ignore the fools and go on either forward or in a puposeful retreat if they didn't put their paws on me. There is no telling what the news media would have to say about the outcome, but there would be a news worhty story in the aftermath and it wouldn't be pretty, should they lay hands on my person. Now that is not the way I would prefer coming out to the world, but hay Stuff (not my usual word) happens! Maybe I best stay with my routine and stay out in the truck at wally world while the Boss shops, and that's in either modes.

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Originally Posted by Miss Joanne

I am not saying that I would start throwing fists but I surely would have had just as harsh of words as they had for Katie. If the man would have followed me out of the store I surely would have stopped and said "I wouldn't follow me much further, you'll limp back"

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Hi Miss Joanne and others

You should told him to follow out to your car so that you wouldnt create an audience and busted him up:heehee::bigsmack:
that way when he goes back to his ol lady he can tell her that a woman beat him up:heehee:

Thera

I would be tempted to stack the abuser but the law says......
So turning the other cheek and wait for another day looks pretty reasonable to me.
When children are involved, remember others might think you are a freak, or whatever.
Paedophile springs to mind instantly.

I agree with Sarah.

I have a fuse which is so short that it scares even me!
But I force myself to walk away. I have always thought afterwards that to have got into a fight would have been stupid. And I would probably have got hurt as well!!!!

SUZY

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Originally Posted by Sarah Charles

You have to pick your battles. Putting yourself in a situation where you could be hurt is silly and getting out of there is a good option. Being in a situation where you may be able to use your communication skills and confidence to change someone's behavior or mind may be worth sticking around for. But it's difficult to overcome years of prejudice in a 10 minute conversation and unless you are a MMA champ in heels, the fight may not be worth the principle involved.

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Funnily enough in a City not far from mine 2 guys were out dressed in drag and these guys grabbed one of their handbags or something......... the guys in drag were cage fighters. Theres a video online of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJqWi...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Sarah Charles

unless you are a MMA champ in heels, the fight may not be worth the principle involved.

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The principle, in Katies case, was she did nothing wrong at all but was verbally attacked because she said "pardon me" and used manners. The father did the right thing at first till the mother came out of nowhere and started screaming like her children were the second coming of christ and that as a family they are better people than the rest of the world or that they have more rights than Katie does and that alone bothers me to no end.

that is where the problem lies with me and made me really think deeply about how I would have reacted in her situation. I don't think you need to be a MMA champ to defend yourself or your own rights. Heels or no heels, sometimes it may just come down to it and those making the most noise are usually the ones that can't back it.

I don't not condone violence but with some people, in some situations, it may come down to it. You'll defend yourself or we will read about how a crossdresser was killed by an angry family screaming faggot all the way and I don't want to read ANY story like that EVER.

I've related this story before. Some years ago I was at my local LGBT resort sitting at the bar quietly having a drink. Some gay guy for whatever reason started razzing me and wouldn't stop, Finally I had enough of it and decided to leave. What happened is he decided to follow me to the parking lot. I finally had enough of it and grabbed him by the shirt and pushed him up against a car. I said: "Just what the hell is your problem?" He said: "nothing" in a somewhat wimpish voice as I don't think he expected me to do that. I said: "Good, so don't bother me again." and let him go. He slithered off back to whatever hole he came from.Bottom line is when en femme, I'm not afraid to invoke Rich's muscles if necessary. The goal is to resolve potential conflicts peacefully but when all else fails I'm definitely not afraid to defend myself or my friends.:)

I try and disarm the situation first with a smile. If that doesn't work I turn away but I don't leave. If that does not work and it is a public place (like Wal-mart in the other post) I will look for an employee. At that point I may walk away, to the security or management. I am not above dialing 911. So far I have never been beyond step 2.

If somehow it became physical (first the heels come off) I carry a super bight LED that I can shine in their eyes or add the weight as a weapon. Then I would run...like Forrest Gump. Again, I am not above dialing 911 and letting the authorities handle it.

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Originally Posted by Miss Joanne

katie_barns Posted a thread about an bad experience she had recently. Not to hijack her thread, I have made this one to ask what I would have over there.

You can read her thread here: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...willl-robinson

Are we really that feminine as CD's that we will always walk away, or run, from a confrontation from bigoted or holier than thou people?

Now, I believe that Katie did the right thing and walked away. I will always believe ,whether enfemme or not, that avoiding a confrontation is ALWAYS the best coarse of action but if everyone walks away doesn't this send the signal that they can continue this behavior at will? Continue to teach their kids wrong so they can keep the vicious cycle going?

As a closeted dresser, I personally don't have to worry about this sort of behavior at this point in time, but at some point I do want to go out and I may come across this very situation when I finally do.

How would I have handled this? I have always considered this part of my life as part of who I am as a whole person. I love dressing as a woman on a part time basis. I also love my male side and My male side wouldn't tolerate this behavior. Would my male side quickly become dominate?

I am not saying that I would start throwing fists but I surely would have had just as harsh of words as they had for Katie. If the man would have followed me out of the store I surely would have stopped and said "I wouldn't follow me much further, you'll limp back"

Would that have been wrong or would it have shown that as a CD We are not any lesser of a man?

Questions, questions, questions.....

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I agree that it is always best to avoid a confrontation lest it quickly spin out of control, but at the same time, I hate to see the bullies win just because they can.

But the smart bully will also keep in mind that females are not always as weak and vulnerable as they might appear to be on the surface. Standing their ground with a few choice words aimed at the bullies - especially when others are around - can often get them to back down. Many females have also taken self-defence courses in the martial arts, carry Mace or pepper spray, and some are even armed with handguns - well , in the US, anyway - so the bullies need to take this possibility into account as well.

In the case of us crossdressers, we not only have that awareness going for us, we are also typically taller and heavier than most GG's, so that makes us even more formidable as a potential adversary.

Bear in mind, too, that a well-aimed stiletto can cause a considerable amount of damage when pressed into service. And we crossdressers sure love our stilettos, right? ;).

I think that most people, TG or otherwise, are well advised to walk away from confrontations with boorish and belligerent people. This isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of maturity and good judgement.

There are few things sillier to me than the idea that a man is less of a man if he doesn't fight, or if he chooses to disengage from a confrontation. That's weak thinking, that's neanderthal thinking, and that's not intelligent thinking. And lets be frank: fighting or not, we're not going to change notions that some ignorant people have about us. Take the above example of the cage fighters vs the purse snatchers. Clearly, that fighters were not 'punked' in any sense of the word. Their physicality established their apparent manliness. However, some comments on youtube continue to refer to them derogatorily.

In Katie's case - what would have been the point? Those people were ignorant and obtuse. They were dealing with a problem in the only way that simple people can... through threats. Unless one of them had physically attacked her, there would have been no reason to fight. I doubt that stiff words would have ameliorated the situation either.

Another thing to consider with Katie's situation was the presence of children. People are quite protective around their offspring, and wrong or not, it's just a poor idea to push it around people with kids.

For me, I'll draw the line at being physically attacked. Anything less, I can walk away from, and I'll be left without a scar. Sometimes the elevated path is the best one to take. (:

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Originally Posted by Leslie Langford

Bear in mind, too, that a well-aimed stiletto can cause a considerable amount of damage when pressed into service. And we crossdressers sure love our stilettos, right? ;).

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It's nice to keep in mind that we have a weapon on our feet lol Unless I am wearing my sling back, peep toe wedges, then it would be more of a slap lol then there is the do I want to ruin my hose dilemma lol

I agree Kali, walking away is ALWAYS the option, dressed or not. It will always be the route I take personally but if it becomes a situation where I am being touched, grabbed, pushed, or other.....I will certainly give back. I would never want to become a statistic or as Franlee pointed out, a news story at 6. Unless of coarse the news story is about a CD that defended herself ;)

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Originally Posted by Kate Simmons

I finally had enough of it and grabbed him by the shirt and pushed him up against a car. I said: "Just what the hell is your problem?" He said: "nothing" in a somewhat wimpish voice as I don't think he expected me to do that. I said: "Good, so don't bother me again." and let him go. He slithered off back to whatever hole he came from.Bottom line is when en femme, I'm not afraid to invoke Rich's muscles if necessary.

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Very ladylike behavior. Be glad it didn't backfire on you

If we choose to go out dressed eventually we'll find a hater. The best thing I would think would be to always avoid confrontation and walk away. I don't think we'll find many sympathesizers although I wish that was the case. The woman in Katie's case was the worst of the worst making a scene simply because Katie was read as a guy. The woman then spewed her hatred. I'm just glad it ended well for Katie.

Unless one absolutely has to fight, it is always better to walk away. It just isn't worth the risk to oneself, even if it is justified. In katie's thread, it is obvious that once the parents opened their mouths they wanted to get into some sort of argument or fight because they didn't like trans people and wanted to prove some kind of point. I would not have given them the pleasure of a confrontation, even if they deserved it.

Don't forget that there were kids involved with Katie's encounter. If things got heated false accusations can lead to getting arrested. Been there!

It's always best to remain cool. Stand your ground when you can, but remain cool.

Ha,,,Ha,,Ha,, Its not ME they need to worry about ? My wife is the mean one in my family ,, An I'm not talking about with words ? So if she was there ,,An 99% of the time she is ,,The aggresser wouldn't have a chance ,,,LOL,,, She dont take kindly to someone messing with her BITCH ! LOL,,,,, I would only chime in if she tagged me in,,, An it don't happen often . Its has to get realy serious to pull out the BIG GUNS ,,, LOL -------- Its a BIRD >>>>> Its a BEE >>>> No its STACY B !!!

I completely disagree with walking away from something like this.

Just because you weren't harmed by this guy doesn't mean that the next person won't be. Homophobia, Transphobia, whatever. He's not scared. He's an asshole and needs to be put in his place.

I'm 5'9", 180(ish) pounds and if you get in my face we're going to scrap. It doesn't matter if I'm wearing a dress, you're not going to make me feel like less of a person because you're an asshole.

And there is a weapon in my Prada bag to back me up if I need it.

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Originally Posted by LisaK

And there is a weapon in my Prada bag to back me up if I need it.

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You go girl,I like your way of thinking. :hugs:

Thera

I am hopeless at physical fighting (however I am dressed) and very easily intimidated. I hardly ever go out dressed as a woman anyway, but if I did and felt threatened, I would probably just run (or totter) as fast away as possible.

It's been my experience that the best way to deal with up to 4 or 5 agressors goes like this- give the smallest one a coin for the 'phone box, tell him to dial 9 11(999 in england) and ask for an ambulance, just as he asks why, kick the one "with the mouth" straight in the nuts (******** in england) this usulally makes them all start running before he hits the ground! If not I don't tend to worry as I am a karate student. I realise this will not suit everybody, but it has served me very well for many years.

First and foremost always be aware of your surroundings. My days of fisticuffs are very seldom since my school days. I often follow the advise others have given, smile and then head for safety. Way to often these days, people bring more than their fists to a fight. Any confrontation you walk away from is a good one. Much like a good aircraft landing is one you walk away from.

Well, If I was in that situation, I would just walk away as Katie did. With the knowledge of knowing that as a man, oftentimes , we shouldn't even speak to strange children at all. I learned that the hard way many years ago. When I was a young teenager, I bagged groceries. And I would speak to the little children in the buggies. I learned real fast that this is not acceptable for most parents. It is even more strongly advisable not to speak to any little children in these times. If a man has his wife with him, he then maybe, be allowed to speak to strange children in front of their parents. But as a CD, and talking to little children, that's a no no.
I would have never spoke to the children. I would have just stood back or went somewhere else for a few minutes and then returned when it was clear. Yes I know it shouldn't be this way but it is. I have had people break in front of me in lines, and I knew that if I said anything, no matter how nice I could speak, the opposition would sort of crank up the heat and make it all bad. This world is full of bullies, that are ready to fight someone for defending themselves from a righteous stance. I will walk away and go to a neutral corner. If I'm followed, I will stop and turn to them and not even speak, for I have given them an out. If they get in my face and are still barking, I will explode, the hard right cross will be followed with many more. But if I was as Tara, I would keep on walking on out the door, to the car and drive off if I can. For I know that once it become physical, only the law will break it up and then you're a cd in jail and on the news.
If Katie had become more confrontational and a fight had ensued, she'd be in jail, and on front page news. And the story would have been "PARENTS PROTECT CHILDREN FROM A CROSS DRESSER", and Katie's male pic would be posted, etc.

She did what was right in this, even though she was practicing reasonable manners and ethics , she was robbed of her own rights. I'm glad she is safe, and that's the important thing, though her honor may be a little burned. It's very sad that we have people like these bullies everywhere.

L&R...............Tara

When it comes to a possible fight i always loved the quote from the Atlanta Drag Queen Charlie Brown.." If they want to start trouble with me they better remember, i am just a big old southern boy in a dress, and i will get down with them."

Talk is cheap. I probably would slither away if I could. No sense having more trouble if you can get away with it.. I am old and small. BUT if hands were put on my body there is a carbon steel baton in my pocket that a person will never see until they are looking up from the ground..Now remember girls at the top of this and every page there is a "no gun thread warning "

Maybe this person figures that what somebody wears is more important than all the stuff happening in the world today. Let's face it, war\famine\reccession\etc., do they really have the thought given that might help solve some of these situations.............? No, because what a person wears, how they talk, etc., is more important to people like that...........BURY THEIR HEADS IN THE SAND AND THE OTHER THINGS DON'T EXIST AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET INVOLVED!!!!!! IT'LL ALWAYS BE SOMEONE ELSES PROBLEM.... But now, choose to wear clothes that aren't "correct", and you're the reason for the downfall of society.


..........And they call me a cynic????

My 2 cents....Avoid confrontation if at all possible. if not and the threat still persists, by all means use your God given right to defend yourself by any means possible. My personal preference is a had held object that propels a projectile 800 plus feet per second..... just sayin`. lol

I have never seen such aggression in a thread on this forum.
Some members seem to be just reviling in the violence they would do. How very macho.

I have not enjoyed reading a thread for the first time ever.

I dunno about the "macho" part, suzy. Females can be pretty aggressive in their own right when pursuing their particular agendas and staring down bullies. Your very own "Iron Lady" Maggie Thatcher had no problem opening up a can of "whoop-@ss" on the "Argies" back in the early 80's when they started rattling their sabres to precipitate the ill-fated (for them) Falklands War...

It's nice to feel we would confront a jerk. But if you think it through, is it better to acknowledge an asshole, confront them, risk an altercation, and then maybe deal with the police, too? I think that unless we would be defending ourselves from an aggressor who follows us or physically threatens us, it is usually better 100% of the time, to just walk away from jerks. Besides, you might break a nail if you get into a fight.

Y'know, I've had a couple of experiences which have taught me that talking tough is not the same as living through an experience and you really do not know what you will do until that experience happens. Sometimes people who think they are runners will fight back. Sometimes the tough talkers crumple.

Also, if you are in danger then screw thinking about idealistic stances. Do whatever you need to do to get yourself in a safe place and don't let anyone make you feel ashamed because when you can actually get away? you did the right thing. :hugs:

Also also: I'm not sure 100% about what situation you all will find yourselves in in the future but I for one have had reason to be VERY glad for the police being involved. Yes, it's going to involve some talking to establish why you are in drag, but they truly can be a huge help even in a complicated situation.

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Originally Posted by suzy1

I have never seen such aggression in a thread on this forum. Some members seem to be just reviling in the violence they would do. How very macho. I have not enjoyed reading a thread for the first time ever.

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Oh wait, are you referring to a response like this?

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Originally Posted by LisaK

I completely disagree with walking away from something like this. Just because you weren't harmed by this guy doesn't mean that the next person won't be. Homophobia, Transphobia, whatever. He's not scared. He's an asshole and needs to be put in his place. I'm 5'9", 180(ish) pounds and if you get in my face we're going to scrap. It doesn't matter if I'm wearing a dress, you're not going to make me feel like less of a person because you're an asshole.
And there is a weapon in my Prada bag to back me up if I need it.

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If you get in my face we're going to scrap??
This “tough” talk only makes you look like a clown, especially here.
You better take your dangerous attitude, your prada bag, and see just how fast you can
walk away from this situation in your expensive leather pumps.

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Originally Posted by Voulez-Vous

This “tough” talk only makes you look like a clown, especially here.
You better take your dangerous attitude, your prada bag, and see just how fast you can
walk away from this situation in your expensive leather pumps.

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And you better give your attitude a rest on this forum or I'll be putting my size 5's up your butt and giving you a vacation for a while.

As for this thread, it's clearly done!