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Does your SO accept your dressing initially, then pull the rug out from under you? Are you the enemy now? Constant suspicion with a smattering of nasty little digs? It's where I am now and it sucks. Vulnerable with no trace of masculinity to hide behind.
Hi GinderLeigh,
Luckily this has not been the case for me. I would suggest that you both communicate with one another as it is apparent that something is now bothering your SO. Perhaps there was a boundary (known or unknown) which has been crossed. Get it out in the open and communicate honetly with each other. Perhaps setting new boundaries which are mutually acceptable will help get things back on track. Good luck!
Di
Nope.... she rolled the rug up and beat me over the head with it when she found out...
similar here - mine, who pushed me into hormones in 1979 and transitioning back in 1980 as of about 2 months ago threw away all my bras (which I kinda need) saying she just doesn't know why I wear that crap. This is also a woman that has had a rough time with menopause over the last 3 years and will take nothing for it. All you can do is duck and run...
Jenn
Happy to say that I'm not there yet. Sad to say, I fear that day will come sooner rather than later.
The big M makes them act funny I have been there.
Hope it all works out.
Ginger and Jennifer, I am so very sorry for what you are going through, I have a little, or eeeny teeeny (as our 2.5 year old grandson would say) understanding. My wife was at first totally supportive and participating after I came out to her 9 months ago, and we did so much together. But after two months, the mental pressure became too much and she totally withdrew, and is just now coming back to the point of discussing.
I can't help but feel some mental button or limit was pushed or reached and really hope that given some time and a lot of discussion the reason for the flip flip can be found.
Jennifer, you have my sincerest heartfelt hope that you can both work through this, as obviously she once totally was with you in this.
Love and Hugs, Barbara
[QUOTE=Tracii G;2971814]The big M makes them act funny I have been there.
Hope
it all works out.[/QUOTGGO
You got that right an not Funny Ha,,,,Ha,,,,, Just funny,,,, Just let it Roll that's what I do ,,,Take full advantage of the good days ,,,,
I'm sorry to hear that you're having some difficulty, but speculate that it probably has more to do with other couple issues than with the dressing itself. Try backing away for a few days to provide some breathing space and working on the other issues you have (we all have some).
I'm fortunate in that my wife is accepting, supporting, and helpful even when she's ticked off at me. There are many others with wives like that, but also a vocal population with wives who enforce Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) or worse. Perhaps yours is still ready to be supportive when the relationship is suitably mended.
Miriam
Hi Ginger, for me it's a DADT Nothing more nothing less.
What do you mean, no trace of masculinity to hide behind, exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerLeigh
I gather your wife has known less than a year. It's a sign that the two of you aren't taking the more difficult yet healthier course, which is talking it all out the minute that something comes up and someone feels any negative emotion or insecurity. I've experienced this in my own relationship ... sometimes it just seems easier to not talk about the things that are difficult to talk about. Or I tell myself that something must be "all in my mind" and there's no need bothering my SO. But this only serves to create fertile ground where a partner can grow their own "version" of what they think is a motive or what they think is going on, and the longer true feelings are not discussed openly, the more the "filling-in-the-blanks-story" takes on epic proportions. And then things just kinda blow up.
At one point you thought that your wife might be aware of this forum. If she does come in regularly to read random threads, or even if she goes to other forums, it's easy to take someone else's wild fantasy CD ride, or read about TGs who want to transition, and believe that her husband "must" feel this way too.
So you should encourage your wife to join if she hasn't already, she should ask questions if she finds it easier to ask general questions to people that she doesn't know (I've done this too ... I asked many questions here in the beginning in an attempt to understand things, since I felt that my SO was uncomfortable with some of my questions), but more importantly, you should encourage your wife to read threads and ask her to discuss what disturbs her WITH YOU. It's just amazing the things that clear up once they're discussed! :)
Ginger, you are not alone.
I came out to my wife four years ago and it was the blessing I could never have imagined. She helped pick my clothes, bought things for me, put makeup on me, etc. The sex was off the scale.
Fast forward four years and we're in a strict DADT mode.
We've talked on many occasions and the answer is always the same. She just doesn't like it anymore and doesn't want to see Shari in her bedroom again. She has told me she's jealous of the "other woman" and at one point, Shari suddenly just made her uncomfortable and she will not go there anymore.
Been trying and trying, but it looks like nothing will change back. She's not abusive in any manner, just doesn't want to deal with it any longer.
Hormones are wonderful and work well when used in the proper way.
For menopausal women more should seek medical advice than do.
HRT can be a successful outcome to some difficult situations.
The onset of altzheimers is also a tricky street.
mine has not in over 13 years together. What's changed in your relationship - besides the dressing issue? If you haven't already, its time to sit dow with your SO and talk about everything. Find out what she's suspicious of, let her know how little digs feel. Let her know that you feel like "the enemy" now and how badly that makes you feel. And find out what she's feeling.
But for gods sake, don't argue positions. Just talk about you feelings and listen to hers.
I think it is a good day bad day type of thing for my wife. I am sure she loves me, understands that being "jenny" is a part of who I am, but that doesn't mean she has to like it everyday. I also think that outside influences have a lot to do with her mood. My son and her dad live with us, and their attitude toward Jenny certainly influence her daily acceptance.
These situations are very difficult. I initially told my wife around 18 months ago. She was ok, but wanted nothing to do with it. Which was fine with me, as it is my thing so i didn't neccessarily want her involved anyway. Fast forward to about a month ago and i was given the choice of our marriage, house and child or crossdressing. I asked the question that if we hadn't got a child would we have been discussing this? She said no, which i suspected. Welcome to a marriage where you're together for the kids.... I said i'd try and stop cding, but...
Katie Taylor x
Sorry but had to stop and answer this one - it's what we do! We avoid major conflict by taking the gentler path and 'accepting' your CD revelation. We join in and have 'fun' and pretend it doesn't bother us because we love you and want to please you and we don't want to lose you.Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerLeigh
But really it bothers us - A LOT!! It bothers us so much that we start to resent any sign of your dressing and can't bring ourselves to wear anything vaguely sexy or feminine anymore because what's the point -you'll just imagine yourself wearing it. We think enviously of our friends' husbands who appreciate femininity on their WIVES. We feel sick and sorry for ourselves, and endlessly embarrassed that neighbors might find out.
In other words, this bit of 'fun' becomes a mental and emotional hell and we understandably blame you. We blame you whether it's taken days or months or years to reach this point.
Menopause has NOTHING to do with it.
i appreciate your honesty and Hopefully we all can learn to communicate better because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorMat
I disagree that all we would do is be envious of a cute outfit, and hope that you will reconsider what you wear to make yourself feel pretty.
I really hope that you and your husband can find a place that works for you both because I really do feel your pain in this post.
Sorry, meant to stay lurking! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Jenny Doolittle
I am not saying that you have done this but I often wonder if the CD starts off by dressing a little bit to get some sort of acceptance from their wife/so then when they get it mistakes it for full acceptance when there is a lot of ground to be covered in-between the two , as Doormat has stated the love for there partner will take them so far but that does not mean it will go all the way or as some CDs want it "all there way" a wife/so needs time to catch up with the expectations of the CD .
While I recognize the pain you're experiencing in your writing, and grant you that you are indeed entitled as to how you feel. The problem I see that you again are speaking for all wives in saying "we feel...". I can assure you this is not how my wife feels, or how the wives of many here feel who have attained and maintain a balanced and healthy relationship with their respective trans/crossdressing husbands. This is important to those who come into these threads after us and read blanket statements being made and take them as fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorMat
At the end of the day, how you feel about an SO's gender expression is up to YOU. You are in control of that, its just the matter of whether or not you as a couple are going to do the work to repair things and meet on common ground, or you're going to choose to stay bitter and angry. As justified as those negative feelings are, they are destructive in terms of a relationship and one's own sense of inner peace. Perpetual venting on these boards is only going to release a small amount of the negativity. You're going to need a way to purge it, and that is achieved through productive, heartfelt communication with your SO.
This is not the first time I've had an open and honest discussion with an un-approving third-party wife. The story is usually quite the same. In the end, what I've touched on here is always the reality in terms of owning one's own negative feelings and purging them so you can move on to more productive dialog with your SO.
I wish you and yours all the luck in the world. :)
No, no, no!Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorMat
DM (Sorry, I cannot, in good conscience, use the name Door Mat), lurking, and the reasoning behind it - that your opinion is not as valid as someone else's - is not a good thing. Suffering in silence is still suffering, and that is not right. Your opinion of your husband and his behavior is just as valid - if not more so - than his opinion of his dressing. I have always tried to teach my children that what you do is fine, unless you are affecting someone else. Our dressing affects more than us, as I'm sure you know, and therefore it is him that needs to work with you to help you feel better. I know that you are at an impasse with your husband, and that is sad. Please try to work with him.
On to the OP's question; Your asking if the rug gets pulled out from you has been asked before. There is even a 'sticky' post about it (Now I like it, now I don't). Just as our feelings change from time to time about dressing, our spouses' feelings change as well. This is natural and normal. Think about it; do you have 'triggers' for your dressing? Then maybe your spouse has 'triggers' for her feelings as well. Maybe the sight of painted toes, groomed eyebrows, or other things we do reminds them that we are different or that you do not conform to that ideal male image she has or had of you. Couple that with natural insecurities, feelings that we want to replace the femininity in the marriage with our own, misperceptions that you do this because you wish they were more feminine, etc. and you have a volatile cocktail of emotions.
Sometimes, they are the brave wife, and choose to suffer in silence - their own version of DADT. They do and accept things that they do not want to to keep the peace, to make you happy, to be "the good wife." Sometimes, that can get wearying, and they get fed up. Are you noticing more suspicion from them? Ask yourself if you may have given them a reason to be suspicious - and remember, what may seem innocuous to us may be huge to them.
So, do our wives change their acceptance of us and our behaviors? Do their feelings change? Of course! To be otherwise would be unhealthy and abnormal.
Kathi
This may be off topic and I apologize to the moderators and OP. I found DM's post above to be interesting. It's curious that many wives & SOs, feel it okay to use the lying by ommission card, in regards to the discovery of their husband's CDing activities, and then become angry... yet turn around and engage in a form of lying themselves. In order to avoid conflict in the marriage, they accept the revelation & pretend the CDing doesn't bother them. Is that not a lie as well? I don't write this to play the blame game, but only to illustrate only how important it is that couples talk and listen to each other honestly and openly... from the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorMat
Lying can come from both sides.... all in the name of love and pleasing a spouse. It's done because we don't want to lose each other and because either gender has it within them to take the gentler path. I do disagree with DM on that point, as I don't believe that selfless-ness is a unique female trait. It's a human trait, to love and support those we care about.
Again, my apologies for getting off topic of the "rug being pulled"; to which I would have to say there could be many reasons. No one answer fits all scenarios. While many have similar at home scenarios, many are different and the reasons for a spouse's disinterest may vary. There are no absolutes in matters such as these. Only through asking questions and open dialogue can people arrive at the truth. Just my two cents.
The information revealed in the posts of this thread are a good indication of why the presence of crossdressing activity should be revealed very early in the relationship!!Telling your wife or SO before you are married, or settled in a relationship, will eliminate virtually all the problems. Yes, it might eliminate the relationship, but better sooner than later!!
And if you really want to be a woman, you might give serious thought to whether having a wife or serious SO is necessary! A wife or SO wants a MAN! If she is like my late wife, she will accept you even if you dress enfemme. But if you hide that fact, you are lying to her! Woman do not like liars!! I never wanted to be a woman, and let my wife know it. We had almost 50 happy years together before cancer took her, and she totally supported my crossdressing activities!
Sorry to hear this Ginger. I am sure a lot of SO's start off with the intent to be supportive and such but find it hard to accept. Society and the controlled way we think are the biggest factor in this. They tell us what is right or wrong and because of it we often buy into it. Hopefully things will improve my friend, maybe it's time to have another long talk and get everything out in the open and find out what really is eating at her. Best of luck
Other than the stresses of daily family life there are no marital issues, and it's certainly not menopause. "Doormat" may have hit it on the head. She's been placating me until now and the truth about how she feels is coming out.
As for the Vulnerable with no trace of masculinity to hide behind. comment, I feel it's hard to take a stand and "Be the man" when I'm being attacked for being feminine. I haven't a leg to stand on in my defense as I concealed this truth from the start. I'm an a$$ and I have to take my lumps.
I don't believe the first part at all, but have to agree with the second part. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerLeigh
Look, we all know why we try to conceal this. From a very early age, we learn that people have their biases (and, occasionally, fists) primed and ready for anyone who doesn't fit the mold. Result? We learn to be good liars. I'm not making excuses - just laying out why we begin to conceal this. In time, we think, "It's just a phase" or "When I join the military or get married, all this will go away." However, we all know how well that works out. :)
So, take your lumps, they're well-deserved. But when the beatings are through, talk.
Kathi
DM (again - waiting for that name change) - please keep posting! Lurking is all fine and well, but your opinion so matches my spouses view of my dressing that it's good to hear. It's the does of medicine that we should all know exists at one time or another in our relationships. You're trapped by your spouses activities and are caught in a no-win situation. So be it. At some point you and he (making sure to use te pronoun you asked for) will figure out some resolve and we would all like to know what it is. And even hopefully hear from your spouse. Heck - I might even get my wife to join.
Your comments are appreciated.
Darla
I dont post in the main forum very much now, for various reasons but I had to say this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathi Lake
Kathi your post really is brilliant - thankyou for really 'getting' us!
I'm sorry you are going through this sucky situation. One thing you have to do is step back and honestly look at what your dressing was initially (when presented to your wife) compared to what is it today. It could be different than what you described or what she envisioned or expected. It may not be she pulled the rug out, but your re-carpeted all or part of the room without her input, consent or knowledge. Even if you have not, her feelings about it may have changed, or she really tried to support and accept it but discovered she cannot fully do it. While it probably feels like it is all her fault, I suspect you own a part of it also. In other words, you both have evolved from that time and that is natural and expected. She has a right to evolve and change just as much as you. Something fundamental has changed. As others have mentioned, this probably goes deeper than just cross dressing. Since it is easy and convenient, cross dressing tends to be hung on all of the other issues, thus hiding the real issues. It will take work to get through it and a lot of communication. It is not going to fix itself by ignoring it or wallowing alone in misery.Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerLeigh
"Vulnerable with no trace of masculinity to hide behind" set off warning alarms in my head, but I cannot articulate exactly what it is. If I read it literally, you are saying masculinity is required not to be vulnerable. Huh? When is masculinity something to hide behind? When is masculinity needed to verbally defend yourself or have a discussion about problems? Again, it feels like there is more to all of this than your cross dressing. I hope you are able to work through this rough patch. There is no shame in seeing a couples therapist, and it has helped others I know.
Back on the 25th you said on the thread "Would you choose not to dress?"
"It's just too much fun and it hurts nobody. I am beginning to care less about what others think about it and just have fun with it. Don't Like? Don't Look!"
I suspect your attitude may have been detected by your wife by action or words. Did you unilaterally expand your activities? Did you expect your wife to accept and participate in 'enhanced' cross dressing? Apparently, your observation cross dressing does not hurt anyone may not be entirely true. I suggest you need to talk to your wife and not us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerLeigh
Yes, Kathi's post is brilliant and I think DM brings a breath of (much needed) fresh air to threads she chooses to chime into.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentpartner GG SO
As for this thread, I've often said that what our SO's go through stinks beyond belief in many respects. Sure, there are some who accept unconditionally but many are brought up in that gender binary world which creates internal issues that many of us (myself included) are blinded to. DM brings those to the surface which is so important.
Will her POV help OP? Yes, I think it has.
When we first got married I did not dress very often. I had very little in terms of a wardrobe. But she never whole heartedly accepted it. Later on she did have some biting comments that she did not have before. Then for years she grew quiet and now she is gone.
It's good to hear a 'no holds barred' response from a GG. Your thoughts and comments are almost exactly the same as my wife's thoughts. I have crossdressed for a long time, since i was quite young, 10ish. For me it was something i tried that i don't know why i tried it. But i did and it felt right. It is something that i feel comfortable doing, it is a need. It's not like wanting a classic car or a bar of chocolate. It is something i feel i have to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorMat
It is something that should be told very early on in a relationship, i know that now. My reasons for not saying anything are, the deep down longing and praying that the desire will go away once in a long term happy relationship. It doesn't go away. I was not popular when growing, i had very few friends and didn't have a girlfriend until i was 20, she became my wife, with that in mind and the insecurities that go with it the announcement early on that i like to wear high heels and make up is not likely to be made on the first couple of dates, can someone you don't know well be trusted with such a secret? At what point after that is then the right time as you are instantly being branded a liar.
The amount of courage needed to tell anyone, that you like to crossdress is incredible. It is so difficult to tell your wife about such a large part of you. I told my wife as i didn't want to keep secrets from her. It is very difficult to talk about and explain why i feel the need to do it. I haven't managed to explain it well enough to her yet. I don't want her dressing me up or anything. Just to be aware of it.
I still want my wife to be feminine and wear nice things, that doesn't change anything.
With the respect to the OP when i told my wife it was like a huge weight lifted of my shoulders, i felt happy. She had said she didn't want to see it or have anything to do with it, but i could do it when she wasn't there. That was fine with me. Then recently, out of nowhere: i want you to stop crossdressing and throw away anything to do with Katie or the marriage is over, she will take the house, our child and most of my money. She may as well have smacked me in the face with a lump of wood. My world is blown apart in no time for something that i thought we had drawn a line under.
Katie Taylor x
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathi Lake
There is another most important dynamic at play than the ones mentioned above and this is, wives of crossdressers need to learn to share their fundamental roles as the women in their relationships with their husbands ... even when the husbands are not transitioning, and even when they do not identify as TSs or middle-pathers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara Jessica
Not every GG can share her role as a woman. If she does weigh the pros and cons of being in a relationship with a man who CDs and decides to stay the course, she will have to redefine her expectations of being in a hetero relationship with a man, she will have to redefine her role in her marriage, she will have to redefine her definition of gender, and until she fully "gets it" (which is difficult especially if her husband hasn't defined these things for himself either), she will feel as if she is giving something up. This is a hugely difficult concept to explain to a CDer who has always felt internally the way that he feels, and who cannot truly understand what it's like for a woman to be in a relationship with a non-CD male compared to a CDer.
It's difficult to put into words, but a GGs who has a hard time with this wants her husband to see HER in the woman's role rather than wanting to see himself in that role or wanting to share the role and be her girlfriend (or a lesbian lover) the way two GGs might share a friendship. And by "role", I'm not talking about one or both partners having a career, or which partner cooks dinner, pays the bills, does the laundry, or puts oil in the car. None of these things are gendered; in our contemporary society we've all become responsible for day-to-day needs since many of us are single for some years before getting married. And I'm not even talking about the clothes!
I'm referring to the particular traditional, romantic, (perhaps chivalric (?)) dynamic between a boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife. For example, say they both go out to a movie and the husband is in femme mode. The only available parking space is three blocks away and it starts to rain. There is ONE umbrella. A small, single user umbrella. Under normal circumstances, the husband would likely allow the wife to use it, since she is the one with her hair done and makeup on. But, now they both get soaked sharing it. Or, he might drop her off, park the car, and walk back using the umbrella. But this won't happen if he has spent 3 hours getting ready. He may want her to drop him off so she can park. OK, maybe this sounds petty, so here is another example, taken from the De Beers Diamond commercials they inundate us with every Holiday season: you see this adoring male give his wife the perfect trinket, a gorgeous diamond pendant, which he surprises her with while they're out ice skating on the frozen pond (I'm laying it on thick here). Her eyes light up, and every woman who watches that commercial feels her heart melt to see the pleasure he takes in having made her happy with something pretty, even more than seeing the diamond itself (we're all raised believing in the romantic Cinderella stories and De Beers knows this). But, in a CDing relationship, the husband buys the diamond (or rather the pretty scarf, the pretty dress, the earrings, the makeup, etc), for himself, even if he also remembers to buy them for his wife, plus he seems to get a great deal more pleasure from wearing them (if he's still in a pink fog stage). The wife has lost the (I don't even know how to explain it … exclusivity of being the woman (?)), and this is why it often feels to her as if her husband's feminine expression IS another woman … the other woman that her husband loves to buy pretty things for, instead of his wife. And this is not about how much money is spent or which of the partners earns the greater salary. It is about the classic, traditional dynamics between male and female in a romantic relationship, even if many of us hold contemporary views when it comes to wanting equality in the work force and sharing the household chores.
Certain attitudes and attentions disappear when a husband CDs, and these become more apparent in time, until they stabilize.
I'm not saying that a woman who loves her husband can't jump over the hurdles of redefining everything, but there is no denying that it is a considerable hurdle to overcome especially since, unlike our husbands, we obtain no personal satisfaction from the CDing other than knowing that our husbands are happy when they express themselves. I felt it too, big time, and I still feel it sometimes, although it's much better now. And the thing is, I have always, ALWAYS supported my SO's need to express herself. I just had no idea in the beginning what it meant and how I would have to change my expectations of a certain romantic dynamic between myself and a partner that I always took for granted. And to further explain, I'm not talking about being treated like a spoiled princess. It's not about material things, it's about a man's exclusive focus on the woman in his life when he does not CD, compared to when he does. I'm reading this again and I still don't feel I'm explaining it adequately.
It's like taking a relationship that a wife expects to be yin/yang (like all the other relationships she has been exposed to), and making it fit into a yin/yin. Some parts just don't fit well together. And this is why so many women say, "But I'm not a lesbian", even if their husbands are not transitioning.
And no, it's not about a wife expecting to be in a relationship with a macho-man. Even non-macho men who do not CD do not share the woman's role with their wives.
Sorry for the length, but for some reason I have a really hard time trying to explain this. If someone else wants a crack at it, please do. :p And in my view, it is the one most fundamental objection to the CDing, underlying all the other concerns mentioned in the above quotes, not to mention the stress over keeping this a secret from a largely non-understanding society.
But, would I change my SO now or not want to be in a relationship with him any more? Absolutely not. :)
Hi GingerQuote:
Originally Posted by GingerLeigh
As far as the wife goes, accept the fact that there will always be something that they'll nag you about. If it ain't this it's that and if it ain't that it's this. It's a woman thing and if they don't nag about something they just can't function correctly:heehee:. And for those of you that have the PERFECT wife that doesn't nag you to death,you just got a lemon that's all.:D
Just nod your head and don't say a damn thing:doh:
Thera
Well, it's only been 2 months since I told her, but i don't see this happening in our relationship. Maybe I'm fooling myself, but it's important to note, that I told her 2 weeks BEFORE she took me to her bed. In fact, that night, I had just told her I was somewhat inexperienced, then she noted i got her bra unhooked quite handily, there was a pause, "I'm a crossdresser!' She burst out laughing!Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerLeigh
We are a somewhat unconventional couple, I'm a fair bit older, neither of us is into traditional roles, she is very feminist, she objects to being "expected" to play the female role, but does not object to cooking or fixing clothes for me, I cook for her sometimes, I'll do some of the housework without being asked.....She will dress provocatively when coming to bed, she is happy to dress up for me when we go out, ( particularly if I ask )
In short, most of the triggers that some of you suffer from are not there.
I'm sorry that you are having problems with this.
Doormat, ( I really hope you can get to a point where you want to change that name ) Communication is the only way forward for you, it's not guaranteed, but you both have to identify, and tell each other where you are. Only then can you maybe find a solution suited to both of you, good luck!
One start might be to take some of the 'digs' and ask yourself if she genuinely has a point?
I had a dig at my SO yesterday. Lovely fat juicy yellow zit at the back of his knee. Had a look up his thigh, at the back. Horrible purple and red open pores, about 6" by 6". Now he'd obviously shaved his legs and made a mess of it. He denied he had a zit and said everybody's thighs look like that. Well, mine don't!
He didn't want to discuss it and I haven't finished yet....
Some SOs don't want to communicate. Like yourself, they would rather whinge.
The comment about not having any masculinity to hide behind might be telling,too. It is very true that women appreciate the manliness of their man. If you feel yours has taken a holiday lately, that might be what is bothering her.
Did you pop it? Put some gas on it afterwards,it'll heal quick:heehee:Quote:
Originally Posted by Allsteamedup
Thera