How do we convince SOCIETY...

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10-02-2012, 07:36 AM
Wildaboutheels

How do we convince SOCIETY...

to ACCEPT us...

would be a very silly question.

Wouldn't it?

Exactly WHAT is YOUR idea of acceptance? For all of you in the closet wanting OUT, when will you know for sure that "Society" accepts us? At what point will you know it is safe to come out?

Would it be good enough that evey single person within your range of vision SEES and watches you for 2 seconds and then returns to what they were doing? Is that acceptance?

Or do they need to look for 4 seconds?

Or look for 5 seconds, while giving you the double thumbs up with big smile on their face?

Or would you prefer them to immediately stop what they are doing and give you a big round of applause? Am I getting warm? How much applause is enough and how much is too much?

What might it mean if they stand, clap and laugh ALL at the same time? But of course we know SOME people are mind readers here and you WOULD know if they are laughing at you or with you. And we all know one is OK but one is not.

Name just one thing on the planet that everyone "accepts".

There are a LOT of bad drivers out there. Chances are very good, that if you are 40 or over, you have been in some kind of minor or major car accident. Did you stop driving/riding in cars?

Many people do not "accept" Religion. Do some of you let that stop you from going to church every Sunday?

So WHAT will it take?
10-02-2012, 07:52 AM
Kate Simmons

I don't worry about acceptance Hon and if they want to laugh, more power to them. I never take myself that seriously anyway. I need to prove nothing and no one owes me anything either.:)
10-02-2012, 08:14 AM
meganmartin

Personally I feel we each just go out have our fun and be respectful is the best way to change the opinions of others. Just being ourselves will do it when others seem to notice we are just having fun and not hurting anyone a few will change some will never change.
10-02-2012, 08:16 AM
Erica2Sweet

The answer: Global takeover. ;)
10-02-2012, 08:17 AM
Cynthia Anne

Kinda like Kate says! I let you live! You let me live!
10-02-2012, 08:27 AM
Diversity

For me it will be when I can 'jump in the water and not make a ripple'....
Di
10-02-2012, 08:57 AM
Sandra1746

Acceptance is "blandness"

Think about how all other minorities were "accepted"; their presence in a store, or other venue, was regarded as 'no big deal'. Nobody (well almost nobody) reacts when a black, or mixed-race, couple is served in a restaurant or a store.

That is what I would like, to be treated when dressed; exactly as I'm treated dressed en-bland. Effectively a "gender blind" (equal to color-blind) society.

Maybe some day,
Sandra1746
10-02-2012, 08:57 AM
Ashley D.

The only acceptance I want is from the people I know and love.
For everyone els I want to pass but if not I couldn't care less what they think.
I'm me and I will be happy!
10-02-2012, 08:59 AM
Karren H

As long as I accept myself..... I could care less what anyone else thinks.......
10-02-2012, 09:06 AM
Joanne.England

Acceptance to me would be when nobody actually notices and they just carry on with business. A long way to go yet.
10-02-2012, 09:14 AM
Kerstin

You can't. You simply have to be visible for long enough that it's no longer a big deal for them.
10-02-2012, 09:15 AM
Gillian Gigs

First would have to come tolerance, and that is the first and a major hurdle to overcome. After that we can start to work on acceptance. To many of us are not even at the pont of self acceptance, so that in itself is a very good place to start.
10-02-2012, 09:18 AM
STACY B

Is the Coast Clear ?

Attachment 188647

How Bout the last one ,,,, Stand an clap !!!

:notworthy::notworthy:
10-02-2012, 11:51 AM
Cheryl T

Acceptance comes with familiarity. If people see enough of us in public and realize that we are not pervs, weirdos and such (dressing appropriately for the venue helps) then over time we will no longer be an oddity and somewhere along that line acceptance will be gained.
10-02-2012, 12:22 PM
sonna

do not make your selfs slaves to society if you want to go out then go out its your body
its your life grab the wheel and take control i repeat that take control

if people just hide in the corner and waited for other people to change there mind
no matter how wrong it was, we would not even be here having this conversation
would we.
10-02-2012, 12:34 PM
BLUE ORCHID

Hi W.A.H., Acceptance by society?? Not in this lifetime!!
10-02-2012, 12:44 PM
Amanda_P

But then you have to think of your family and the redicule that they will recieve. It would be nice to be out and free to be who we want. But do you subject your family to all the harsh comments and laughs.
10-02-2012, 12:45 PM
Lorileah

Orchid, maybe not in yours but I see it in the next generation. In the last month I have met so many young people who just want to be friends and don't care how one presents. It is the learned behavior we have to break. Just as with every other civil rights struggle. We will need to accept a majority who are not offended or who look askance at us, it will never be 100% (as it still isn't for races, religions, sexes, regional). So many people now have an agenda that as long as you do not interfere with that agenda, they just DON'T care.

And I feel the only way is to desensitize society. When it becomes "normal" to see us then it will become unnoticeable and will be passe. Very few people will come to your closet and ask you to step out.
10-02-2012, 12:51 PM
Foxglove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheryl T

Acceptance comes with familiarity.

But, Cheryl, doesn't familiarity breed something?:D

Hi, Wild! There are some people saying here that they don't care what other people think of them. I personally think that we have to care in some ways. It depends on who you're dealing with because I think there are different levels of acceptance.

One would be in casual encounters with strangers. E.g., you're out shopping, you run into various people here and there, who may possibly notice you for a couple of seconds and then may well never see you again for the rest of their lives. With those people you don't have to care what they think of you. With such people acceptance means that they simply leave you alone to go about your business.

The next level up would be not so casual encounters with strangers. E.g., it might be an SA in a place where you're shopping. Acceptance there would mean that he/she treats you the way they would any other customer. I personally care what they think of me because if they're nice to me, it makes shopping much more fun. If they're not so nice to you, no big deal, you can shake it off and maybe you shop somewhere else next time.

The next level up would be sustained encounters with non-strangers. Maybe you're out in a pub, e.g., with people that you plan to spend the evening with. Or maybe they're colleagues you see every day. With them again, acceptance means that they treat you like they would anybody else.

And the next level is people you're close to--family or friends. And there, acceptance to my mind is something deeper. Because they perhaps have a glimpse of what you truly are, and they don't love you any the less for that. This is where I'm hurting just a bit these days. A while back I came out to my son, and though he's accepted me on one level, he has yet to accept me on another. That is, he hasn't rejected me, we're still friends. But on the other hand, he doesn't want to talk about my TGism, he apparently doesn't want to know anything about it. Which means that he hasn't given me the deep acceptance that you'd like to have from those you love. Acceptance there means that he knows all about me, he sees my TGism for what it is, and he's comfortable with it. That's asking a lot, and it may be a long time before he gets to that point. I'm not pushing him. It took me a long time to get to that point, so it's no surprise if he needs some time as well.

As to how we persuade society to accept us, that's what my signature is about:

If we consider how it is only by groping our way through a fog that we become familiar with most of the things we meet with, we will surely conclude that if they come to seem less strange to us, it is not because we gain an understanding of them, but rather simply because we get used to them. Montaigne, Vol. 1, XXVI

Best wishes, Annabelle
10-02-2012, 01:14 PM
ArleneRaquel

I certainly hope Lori is right.
10-02-2012, 01:26 PM
Jamie Ann

We Don't Want to Be Unacceptable

How do we convince society to accept us? I think that what this means to most crossdressers who have seriously thought about it is: “How do we do our part to help create and maintain a social climate in which most people agree that we’re okay?” It would be silly to think that “acceptance” means that people would stand up and applaud us when we enter a restaurant. Likewise, it would be silly to think that there will ever be unanimity in opinions about crossdressing — after all, no such unanimity exists about women wearing slacks … or anything else.

We don’t want to be unacceptable to most people because that would put us in greater danger. In the US, state and federal hate crime laws and corporate policies offer us quite a bit of protection — in a restaurant, at work, and in other settings. But such laws and policies would never have come about if a large percentage of the public thought that we were immoral or otherwise unworthy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. How do we maintain a reasonable degree of public acceptance? We can do that best by being friendly, treating others with respect, being self-assured, and not coming across as a threat to non-crossdressers.
10-02-2012, 01:36 PM
kellycan27

How?.. One person at a time.
10-02-2012, 01:40 PM
Marleena

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellycan27

How?.. One person at a time.

Just choose that one person very carefully! lol.
10-02-2012, 01:43 PM
sonna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Ann

How do we convince society to accept us? I think that what this means to most crossdressers who have seriously thought about it is: “How do we do our part to help create and maintain a social climate in which most people agree that we’re okay?” It would be silly to think that “acceptance” means that people would stand up and applaud us when we enter a restaurant. Likewise, it would be silly to think that there will ever be unanimity in opinions about crossdressing — after all, no such unanimity exists about women wearing slacks … or anything else.

We don’t want to be unacceptable to most people because that would put us in greater danger. In the US, state and federal hate crime laws and corporate policies offer us quite a bit of protection — in a restaurant, at work, and in other settings. But such laws and policies would never have come about if a large percentage of the public thought that we were immoral or otherwise unworthy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. How do we maintain a reasonable degree of public acceptance? We can do that best by being friendly, treating others with respect, being self-assured, and not coming across as a threat to non-crossdressers.

good one thank you and a great way to say it.
10-02-2012, 01:44 PM
ArleneRaquel

One person at a times sounds like a great idea, as I stated in another thread my homophobic neighbor gave me a compliment a few days ago, yesterday he said hello & smiled. :)
10-02-2012, 01:51 PM
Marleena

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsArlene

One person at a times sounds like a great idea, as I stated in another thread my homophobic neighbor gave me a compliment a few days ago, yesterday he said hello & smiled. :)

So you going to tell him?? I think he already knows. If he gets angry just tell him you're packing.lol.
10-02-2012, 02:02 PM
kellycan27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsArlene

One person at a times sounds like a great idea, as I stated in another thread my homophobic neighbor gave me a compliment a few days ago, yesterday he said hello & smiled. :)

IMHO I think that this constant "we need to educate" the GP ( wouldn't it be nice) is pretty much a pipe dream, but in the meantime.. our best bet is for each of us to work at finding acceptance in our own little individual slice of heaven. I am not saying that we shouldn't try and spread the word, but educating the masses? The thing is ( and here again it's just my opinion) that the people who would be open minded enough try and understand are probably the same people who really wouldn't have an issue with us to begin with, and they aren't the ones that we really need to worry about.
10-02-2012, 02:05 PM
Marleena

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellycan27

IMHO I think that this constant "we need to educate" the GP ( wouldn't it be nice) is pretty much a pipe dream, but in the meantime.. our best bet is for each of us to work at finding acceptance in our own little individual slice of heaven. I am not saying that we shouldn't try and spread the word, but educating the masses? The thing is ( and here again it's just my opinion) that the people who would be open minded enough try and understand are probably the same people who really wouldn't have an issue with us to begin with, and they aren't the ones that we really need to worry about.

I agree. It might be the only way.:)
10-02-2012, 02:12 PM
Stephanie47

Give up on trying to change society. Just act in a cordial respectful manner. Don't get in people's faces. You're going to get snickers wearing a dress in public. Cross dressing is not customary behavior. The best one can hope for is acceptance of the individual, who may have a little quirk. Just look around you and you'll see the intolerance for groups who are in much greater numbers than gays, lesbians and cross dressers. I'm sure there are many cross dressers who do not accept other groups based on some bias belief.
10-02-2012, 02:14 PM
AllieSF

A lot of great replies here. Annabelle, I really liked yours because when I first read the thread I thought immediately of the general public and not necessarily of those closest to us. As Kelly says, one person at a time every time we meet someone or someone sees us. One of my beliefs is that we should not let peer pressure limit how each of us decides to express ourselves. That is for each and everyone one of us to decide. People who are more extravagant may have a harder time finding the tolerance and acceptance that they may be looking for and that is their choice.

Going back to the tolerance versus acceptance, I think that we sometimes use those words interchangeably like we use passing and blending. Yes, we will probably get a lot of tolerance before we get a lot of acceptance. I just think that most of us, including those that want to go out and who go out, basically desire be out, be ourselves and not have negative experiences because of how we present ourselves. Just have a good time and not be bothered by others. I believe that it is happening and probably faster than we think. Every little bit helps us, from references in movies, TV shows, news articles, anti-hate crime laws, equal rights regulations and by our actual personal presence out in the real world. Let's go do it people!
10-02-2012, 02:16 PM
kellycan27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleena

I agree. It might be the only way.:)

Then you should put on your best frock and go say.. Hi I am your neighbor Marleena to Mr muscles. :devil:
10-02-2012, 02:25 PM
Marleena

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellycan27

Then you should put on your best frock and go say.. Hi I am your neighbor Marleena to Mr muscles. :devil:

Well Kelly I was feeling so inspired I was going to have a cop pull me over and tell him.:)

Mr. Muscles is a non issue for me now. I realize his muscle building is a way to hide his inadequacies. He has a hot wife to hide behind too. Besides I've caught him staring at me a couple of times.:)
10-02-2012, 02:49 PM
kellycan27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleena

Well Kelly I was feeling so inspired I was going to have a cop pull me over and tell him.:)

Mr. Muscles is a non issue for me now. I realize his muscle building is a way to hide his inadequacies. He has a hot wife to hide behind too. Besides I've caught him staring at me a couple of times.:)

So.. you're over Mr Muscles then? When I first met Rick I thought he was an arrogant, macho jerk, and I had isuues with the beautiful women that he sometimes showed up with. Truth be told.. I was rejecting him before he had the chance to reject me (not that he'd ever noticed me to begin with). You know what they say.. The best defense is a good offence! :battingeyelashes:

You do know that I am just yankin your chain LMAO
:hugs:
Kel
10-02-2012, 02:55 PM
Marleena

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellycan27

So.. you're over Mr Muscles then? When I first met Rick I thought he was an arrogant, macho jerk, and I had isuues with the beautiful women that he sometimes showed up with. Truth be told.. I was rejecting him before he had the chance to reject me (not that he'd ever noticed me to begin with). You know what they say.. The best defense is a good offence! :battingeyelashes:

You do know that I am just yankin your chain LMAO
:hugs:
Kel

Actually I thought about the cop and that wasn't a great idea afterall.lol.

Yes, I know you're playing with me Kelly. Truth is if I'm going to have a man he better be bigger than me.:heehee:
10-02-2012, 02:55 PM
KellyJameson

For me acceptance would be when you no longer have to conform to a certain physical appearance to avoid going through the day with people trying to figure out whether you are a man or woman.

This human need to categorize everything is exhausting to be around when you do not fit into a catagory

The catagory based on skin color, male-female, child-adult, religious-atheist, rich-poor,ect.. the list is endless and we are all guilty of doing it but the problem is as soon as we do it we stop learning about who the person really is because we already assume we know them by the catagory we have placed them in.
10-02-2012, 03:48 PM
STACY B

Is the Coast clear YET ?

Attachment 188668

Just checking ,,, If it's not Ill just come back !!!
10-02-2012, 03:58 PM
STACY B

Sure wish you Lady's would straighten this Mess out so we can get on with it ? I got things to do ,, An places to go ,,, So COME ON already !!!! LOL,,,,,
10-02-2012, 04:03 PM
Marleena

Quote:

Originally Posted by STACY B

Attachment 188668

Just checking ,,, If it's not Ill just come back !!!

I'm done, sorry for the derail it's safe to come out now. I'll shutup. lol.
10-02-2012, 04:13 PM
Nicole Erin

What is acceptance to me?
I go as and live as i see fit, people can take it or leave it.
10-02-2012, 04:48 PM
Danielle_cder

Its not our job too convince society, but to convince ourselves that this lifestyle is not wrong/bad. There is one small letter in society, I. Acceptance begins with you.
10-02-2012, 05:16 PM
Brianna612

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diversity

For me it will be when I can 'jump in the water and not make a ripple'....
Di

Make ripples and lots of them. Can't expect to be accepted without getting out there can you?

I accept myself, others will ether accept me or not. Whatever
10-02-2012, 05:37 PM
Wildaboutheels

How do we convince SOCIETY...

to ACCEPT us...

would be a very silly question.

Wouldn't it?

Exactly WHAT is YOUR idea of acceptance? For all of you in the closet wanting OUT, when will you know for sure that "Society" accepts us? At what point will you know it is safe to come out?

Would it be good enough that evey single person within your range of vision SEES and watches you for 2 seconds and then returns to what they were doing? Is that acceptance?

Or do they need to look for 4 seconds?

Or look for 5 seconds, while giving you the double thumbs up with big smile on their face?

Or would you prefer them to immediately stop what they are doing and give you a big round of applause? Am I getting warm? How much applause is enough and how much is too much?

What might it mean if they stand, clap and laugh ALL at the same time? But of course we know SOME people are mind readers here and you WOULD know if they are laughing at you or with you. And we all know one is OK but one is not.

Name just one thing on the planet that everyone "accepts".

There are a LOT of bad drivers out there. Chances are very good, that if you are 40 or over, you have been in some kind of minor or major car accident. Did you stop driving/riding in cars?

Many people do not "accept" Religion. Do some of you let that stop you from going to church every Sunday?

So WHAT will it take?