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Why?...Why is it fine for a gay woman to wear a suit with a bow tie or a three piece suit with a hat, and I have to hang my head with shame for wearing womens clothes in public. Why must I be the deviant weirdo because I wear womens clothes to a wedding(not mine), and all the other lesbian couples wear pants and a button down shirt w/tie and a blazer? Yet they're all a twitter about me. I refrained from wearing what I wanted and went with the usual male dress code. But still... C'mon!
I wear what I want.
If they can so can I is the way I look at it.
I don't care what people think of me as far a what clothes I wear.
You don't. The only reason for you to hang your head in shame is if you have shame. Shame is something that you put on yourself, just as pride is something that you put on yourself. The first women that stepped out the door wearing pants and a tie did so with pride, because they knew that they were fighting for what is right. You have to decide if wearing what you want to wear is worth a fight to be proud of. You can be either proud or you can be ashamed. It's up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlana
Why do fools fall in love? Why do birds sing so gay?
Yes this is a dead horse. Why do you think you have to hide? Women decided a long time ago that what society thinks about them wearing certain clothes seems to be society's problem. In most cases it is the CD who has more of an issue with what they wear than the general public.
But to answer your question, women fought for the right.
And that dead horse your beating has been dead for several decades now.
The women (and notice i didn't say anything about sexual orientation here) that first started wearing pants did so over century ago, it's all a moot point.
One thing you need to keep in mind here is whether those suits and pants worn in your examples were made for men or women. My very hetero tom boy cousins growing up wore ladies jeans, remember gender is a spectrum, some GGs like to be more femme than others.
Is there a double standard? Yes there absolutely is, but the other posters have a very good point, it's all on you to look society in the eye and wear what you want with pride.
The world is full of unfair double standards. A woman can buy a suit and boxers with no problem, but if a man buys a dress and some heels there is a problem. This is so sad. I think that as long as one is not hurting anybody physically/verbally or out in public naked, there shouldn't be a problem. Just ask Ellen Degeneres. She wears mens clothes as herown 24/7 even at awards shows and nobody says a word.
If enough CD'ers go out dressed then eventually society will stop viewing it as something to be ridiculed/stared at/whatever! It's no good hiding in your houses bemoaning the fact that "its not fair" that wont change anything - sufragettes fought for their right to be treated as equals and get the vote, they didnt hide at home moaning about the unfairness of it all.
um....I don't see the problem. In fact I do it all the time, no one says anything. First, you can buy whatever you like as long as it is legal. That is free enterprise. Second, they don't know who you are buying it forQuote:
Originally Posted by Cary
well if it took any courage to beat a dead horse I'll betcha a dollar there would be some dusty dead horses around here.
I went to a wedding dressed to the nines and was accepted and had no problems, yes it was lesbian couple, but there was a mixed crowd with their families there. Walk in like you belong and just be yourself.
I got more complements on the dress than ??s why I was wearing it LOL.
It just seems wrong! Of course, that's because it is wrong. Society is a strange beast. . .
Amen! Thank you for stating this fact. The problem is that most CDs cower in the safety of their own home and are afraid to get out there and wear what they like proudly! Women fought to earn their fashion freedom. On the other hand, there is another aspect that must be considered. When women wear men's clothing they are doing it as "women". They don't attach fake mustaches and beards and try to pass as men. They are just women wearing men's clothing. I suggest that the best route to acceptance may be wearing women's clothing as men without attempting to pass as a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentpartner GG SO
One of the problems with being more accepted in public is that we all do our best to pass as a woman. If more (OK maybe a lot of) men wore dresses while sprouting full beards or mustaches it time perhaps it would be as acceptable for men to wear whatever they want just as woman could. Having said that I still want to be a passable as I can - may not help the cause as much
Ok I just fully read the pervious post - pretty much the same thing
AnitaH
Will someone PLEASE, mercifully put a bullet in this old, swayback nag and stop it's misery!? The subject is apples and oranges! They'e both fruit but NEITHER IS GAY!
(Oh RITE! No guns allowed in here!) SIGH!!!!
Well, because there are ignorant A-holes that will use your crossdressing to ruin you. This does not happen to women for the most part, but it DOES happen to men. The bloody DSM still list Crossdressing (thought they use a different term) as a sexually deviant thing, and is applied to men for the most part. I KNOW the FAA would have an absolute field day with my certificates if I were found out, which is why I am pretty much joe normal for my flying job, even have a minimal amount of Goth to my style. I get guff for my hair being long too. People are stupid and judgmental and connect things that have nothing to do with one another, to one another.Quote:
Why do you think you have to hide?
That at least is why I still find myself hiding....I hate it, but it is what I feel I must do.
how so? I have to know because I need to fix whatever is wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Brenda456
If CD's wish to hide at home fine I understand that.I couldn't do that and feel true to myself I had to get out and express who I am.
I don't mind being seen as a guy in womens clothes I'm excersizeing my freedom of choice.
The double standard only exists if you let it. I for one don't pay attention to it.
I never let others dictate to me what I will wear Hon, simple as that really.:)
Do animal rights know we are beating dead horses.?
You want the right to wear what you want, you have that right, You want everyone to accept your choice, after a hundred years, some people still complain about women doing it, and they took a lot of crap from men, and other women, when they started wearing pants. You want to dance, you got to pay the pipper. only enough doing it, for long enough will ever get it to where you want it to be. Join those out doing it, or stay in the closet and wait, until the trail blazers make it safe. But it doesn't come without a fight.
Tina B.
Marlana, most people's shame is due to their religious upbringing, where they are indoctrinated from a very young age that "boys do this" and "girls do that", and ne'er the twain shall meet. Shame is internal, but I also think the women who wear guy's clothing and are judgemental of us are hypocrites. It's a double standard and it's not fair, but that unfortunately is the way the world is, just as there are people who are and always will be unaccepting of us.
It really makes me wonder when so many religions profess to have peaceful ways, their followers get so violent over so many issues - including crossdressing. And I know people have their scripture that they put their whole life in, but they pick and choose exactly which lines out of their "infallible book" to follow as their word of law, and which lines they can safely ignore (I guess because their God isn't looking?), and that makes them hypocrites too.
It does not help us when we finally purge ourselves of shame, but then live in fear for the next time we step out (depending on where you live) that we'll be dragged away and be beaten to death by a bunch of holy book wielding thugs, while the courts look the other way.
yep, and even some CD'ers on this forum complain about women wearing pants/trousers - and say we dont dress up and wear this and that yada yada yada...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina B.
Amen to that - the horse is so long dead its just a skeleton :brolleyes:Quote:
Will someone PLEASE, mercifully put a bullet in this old, swayback nag and stop it's misery!? The subject is apples and oranges! They'e both fruit but NEITHER IS GAY!
The tribal wisdom of the Dakota Indians,passed on from generation to generation,says that when you discover that you are riding a dead horse,the best strategy is to dismount.
In modern education,government,and business,however,a whole range of far more advanced and "enlightened" strategies are often employed,such as:
1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Threatening the horse with termination.
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other countries to see how others ride dead horses.
6. Lowering the standards so that dead horses can be included.
7. Reclassifying the dead horse as "living-impaired."
8. Hiring outside contractors to ride the dead horse.
9. Harnessing several dead horses together to increase the speed.
10. Providing additional funding and/or training to increase the dead horse's performance.
11. Doing a productivity study to see if lighter riders would improve the dead horse's performance.
12. Declaring that as the dead horse does not have to be fed,it is less costly, carries lower overhead,and therefore contributes substantially more to the bottom line of the economy than do some other horses.
13. Rewriting the expected performance requirements for all horses.
14. Promoting the dead horse to a supervisor position.
But is the skeleton wearing pants or a skirt damn hypocritical dead horses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentpartner GG SO
I agree with you Traci. Stop complaining and start doing. It's totally up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
Maybe we need to kill the dead horse beater.
[SIZE="2"]It’s FUN being a deviant weirdo! To me, all non-deviants are weird in the extreme… :clap:[/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlana
Now the dead horse is flogged to death, maybe we can get on to deviant weirdos? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
Marlana asked: "Why do I have to hang my head in shame for wearing women's clothes in public?"
This is an intelligent and enlightened reply. Listen and think, guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberta Marie
Stephie
A dead horse thread. Of course, please feel free to do as you please. As long as your activity is legal, do it! And, be sure you're able to accept the consequences of your actions. The issue of acceptable norms of society has been going on forever and will in the future.
If you are willing to go to an evening wedding in a floor length gown, will you go in virginal white and break another societal norm or custom? Just wondering.