CDs and violence?

Hi girls!
sooo i only go out in femme to places i know i will feel safe and accepted. gay bars, costume parties, raves, festivals, burningman. things like that, but im very tired of feeling like i need a special occasion to run around en femme. the thing is... im super afraid of getting singled out and hated on. ive heard a bunch of stories of people getting jumped and beaten and raped and all these horrible things for crossdressing. i guess what my question is.... does this really happen commonly? have many of you experienced blatant discrimination or hostility or even violence in public? i guess this is more of a problem lately as ive been leaning towards TG and not CD nowadays... LOVE LOVE LOVE

I know the feeling, in my male mode I just a presence that just seems to keep me out of trouble. sometimes guy's prey on the weak. I have never fallen victim to that.

however in female mode, that all changes I act like a woman I walk like a woman, try to look like a woman.
the image that protects me as a man is gone.

There are times when I'm in female mode My BMW feels like a fortice I'm so glad to hear the doors unlock at my approach.

last night as Cheyenne, I came real close to going to a redneck bar and trying to sing like a woman karaoke (sometimes I'm not to bright) could have been the pink fog, again.

I very routinely put on my finest, and go out to the local malls, without makeup and wig. I wear my forms, earrings, and of course my full on outfit. I present as an everyday woman, appropriate for where I am, however, I am obviously, a man in a dress. I have yet to encounter any real hostility. I will get the occasional snicker from someone, but all in all, I do find I get alot of open dialogue, especially if I am looking for something and a GG is looking for the same thing. I usually get complimented on my ability to walk in heels, or how my legs look, or how well I can match my colors. Real basic stuff that to the everyday GG, seems unfathomable that a man can accomplish;) If nothing else, it gives the women I have been talking to or who have spotted me, a story to tell about how the "big bad scary crossdresser" really wasn't that bad at all. In fact, might have even been somewhat normal! The way I see it, the chances of a random person, committing a crime in as public a place as the mall, just because you decided to wear a pair of panties today, is very unlikely. I assume most people have a level of sanity of them that although they may not agree, or understand, they will not react with violence.

Think like a GG and you'll be fine. Avoid places where there is likely to be trouble. Bars are not your friend. Go to places where good people get together to do or see things. Shopping, theatre, most concerts, public gardens, museums, exhibitions, etc.

Being a CDer has opened up all of these possibilities to me and I enjoy myself just as much for the experiences I have as I do because I can express myself through dressing.

I go out en femme mainly to shop. I've been to numerous shopping centers without a problem. The only problem I had was walking near a bar area at night, alone. I was approached by a car and asked to hangout with them. I declined and they left calling me names. So, I must say that these don't happen commonly but it depends on the time and place in order to feel safe. Things convert when you're dressed like a woman.

I use my intuition and listen to my feelings on things like this. Also, common sense has to prevail with regard to potential situations. In any case I'm really not afraid of anything in the long run and will defend my friends to my last breath. That goes without saying Hon.:battingeyelashes::)

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Originally Posted by LunaDarling

Hi girls!
sooo i only go out in femme to places i know i will feel safe and accepted. gay bars, costume parties, raves, festivals, burningman. things like that, but im very tired of feeling like i need a special occasion to run around en femme. the thing is... im super afraid of getting singled out and hated on. ive heard a bunch of stories of people getting jumped and beaten and raped and all these horrible things for crossdressing. i guess what my question is.... does this really happen commonly? have many of you experienced blatant discrimination or hostility or even violence in public? i guess this is more of a problem lately as ive been leaning towards TG and not CD nowadays... LOVE LOVE LOVE

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There are many answers to that question. Keep in mind that many GG women are also violently beaten, raped, and/or murdered every year. There are many factors to be taken into consideration together. I'll share some of my personal experiences and how I have handled the situations I have encountered.

When I first came out, I came out in Colorado Springs Colorado. This is a town which plays host to 5 military bases including Fort Carson, Norad, Peterson Air Force Base, the Air Force Academy, and the Falcon Air Station. In addition, the headquarters for Focus On The Family is also in this area as well. To put it mildly, this was not the most CD friendly environment in the world. So rule number one, if possible, try to live in a major city that has a large gay population, gay rights protections, and is more open to diversity.

In my early outings, I did not pass well. Part of this was because I was not very good at doing make-up, but also because I would wear short skirts, boots or shoes with heels, and tight fitting satin or spandex blouses. I have several pictures on my facebook profile of these early outfits. To put it mildly, I looked like a hooker, and even the hookers were jealous of my legs, but it was also pretty obvious that I was a guy. Needless to say, I was frequently clocked and if I was out in a public area, there would be a dozen military boys, mostly enlisted men, making lots of noise about it. At first I would act really bashful and tried to hide, but I quickly learned that this only made the situation worse. There were a few times when I got defensive and tried to tell them to shut up, but that only made the situation worse. Quickly, I learned to acknowledge when I was clocked, and to smile and nod to them, acknowledging that yes, I am a guy in a short skirt. Very often, this would diffuse the situation and they would even start asking me questions, asking me about the dressing, and were surprised to find that I was attracted to girls, but obviously not the same girls that would be attracted to THEM.

Ironically, one of the biggest problems I had was at a lesbian bar. A bisexual girl made a pass at me, and asked me to dance, and her girlfriend got jealous. The girlfriend got together with a few of her friends and decided they were going to "fix me", essentially cut my nuts off. Fortunately, word got back to some other girls who were friends of the owners and the owner told me to stay put and explained what they had planned. There was a part of me that was very tempted to accept their invitation, but I wasn't sure if they knew how to make ether from starter fluid or how to make chloroform from nail polish remover and chlorine bleach, and the prospect of being fully conscious for such a procedure didn't appeal to me at all, so I stayed at the bar until they told me it was safe, and the owners invited me back. I came back to that club several times as both Debbie and as Rex, and was welcomed in either mode. Suggestion number two, make sure to find out if the girl making a pass at you has a current partner, and make sure that she introduces you to her partner, so that you are not seen as a direct and immediate threat to the existing relationship. There are many bisexual women who will find a CD very attractive, and will want to dance with you and get to know you. You don't want her jealous boyfriend or girlfriend to feel so threatened that they want to take you out of the game. Acknowledge and accept the existing relationship, and see how her partner feels. One a few occasions, the partner actually suggested a 3-way and we had a great time together.

Another issue I had was a guy who kept grabbing my boobs in public. He thought it was funny, and just kept doing it. One day he came up from behind to do it and my elbow ended up in his nose accidentally. He started to react violently, but I quickly apologized and diffused the situation. He never tried the grab again. The key here is, when you are dressed as a girl, you don't have to try and prove your manhood, but you can set your boundaries the same way a woman would.

Another event was when I was pulled over by a police officer. He pulled me over for a broken tail light. I realized that he would be more wary once he realized I was a guy dressed as a girl, so I turned on the dome light, pulled out the driver's license and registration, and put both hands on the steering wheel, with the window rolled down. I waited for him to look at me, look into the car, and then ask me for my driver's license and registration. When he asked me if I knew why he had pulled me over, I told him no I didn't know, and he told me about the tail light. I thanked him for alerting me to the problem and promised to get it fixed. Of course, because I was in drag, he felt he had to call me in to see if there were any warrants or aliases. He asked me my femme name and I told him. He spent about 15 minutes calling in the information, the description, and the alias, which meant that I now had Debbie Lawrence as an "Official Alias". It was now a matter of official record. I would learn later that this would work in my favor. When he came back, he thanked me and gave me the ticket, and I asked if he would mind if I checked to see what the problem was. He stayed and we walked back to the trunk, I opened it up, and found that a suitcase (Debbie's) had been pressing against the bulb, which had come loose. I put it back and he made a not on the ticket that the problem was fixed. He got a little show, and I was able to get the minimum fine. When engaging with law enforcement of any kind, assume that he will be suspicious, let him see as much as possible so that he knows you are not a threat. These days I frequently keep a Bible in the back seat, which has helped me avoid a few problems.

Drunks and Drugs - avoid others who are obviously intoxicated, especially those who are obviously drunk. They are the ones most likely to get aggressive sexually, they may not realize you are a guy, and whether they do or not, are more likely to get violent if you don't create distance right away. If he's determined, then look him in the eye and ask him "you do realize I'm a guy don't you?". In some cases, that's all it takes for them to lose interest. In other cases, they will still come on, at which point you can tell him that he is not your type. When he asks what your type is, just say "Sober". Most of the TS and TG women who are killed in the United States are killed in or near bars, and often by people who were drunk and got violent. It's hard to say whether they got violent because they were rejected or because they realized too late that they were buying drinks for a TG instead of a GG. Don't let anyone buy you a drink unless they know that you are not a GG. If they are still interested, then you can have a conversation and see where things go, but hustling for free drinks from guys who think you're a real girl is a good way to get a drunk to turn ugly. If he can't tell, he's probably not safe.

Traffic or Trade - don't accept any offers of sex for money. Even if he knows you're a CD/TG, you don't want to be perceived as a "disposable human". If possible come with friends, and if invited home, make sure your friends know who you are with and where you are going, and promise to call them when you get there. If he or she is up to any mischief, he will probably call it off, because he knows that there will be witnesses who would recognize him and cell phone records of your last known GPS location - even if you didn't get the exact address. Make sure you are not an attractive target.

When possible, make friends, take your own car so you can leave when you want, and stay clean and sober when out in femme mode. You might even want to be the designated driver. Before I came out, when I was drinking, I frequently went into black-out personality and Debbie would sometimes turn into a rude bitch, putting down men and masculinity in general, and sometimes even starting fights I couldn't win. When you're in 3 inch heels, a short skirt, and constricting top, you don't want to end up having to defend yourself from an attacker - that you just provoked into attacking.

Give your phone number to women, and get phone numbers from men. Make sure that people who get that number know that you will be answering in you masculine voice. If/when you transition, you may want to get a separate phone for your femme side, and set that ringer to vibrate, tell them to text you and you will call them back.

Don't take anyone back to your home unless you have been introduced by a friend you can trust, and you feel that you could have a serious relationship together. I've had many second dates involving a U-haul trailer and a new apartment mate, so I generally think very carefully before inviting a prospect home. Think of it this way, if you were NOT sexually attracted to them, would you take them home with you? Better to meet at the club, let them know what nights you come to that club, meet a few times, go out for coffee, and get to know each other, then decide whether or not you want them as a new house-mate.

Avoid drugs - don't buy them, sell them, or hold them. Some of the girls who get hurt or killed are buying or are invited to parties where the deal is drugs for sex, but they haven't been putting out. In other cases, they are trying to sell drugs on someone else's territory. This would make you a target regardless of your gender or presentation. Pretty much any criminal enterprise can get you seriously hurt. Don't use your ability to look really hot and distract others as a way to get a quick buck doing something illegal, someone won't be distracted and will be upset with you for interfering with their operation.

Treat others with respect and compassion. Remember, if you are seen as a really hot beautiful woman, you will trigger all of the insecurities men experience when around such a woman. You may also remind many women of some of the women who are very beautiful but use their beauty to manipulate others. If you get clocked, they will have the fear of the unknown. Most people fear what they don't understand. Furthermore, you threaten their past assumptions. Some may envy you, wishing they could do the same, others may feel torn because they know you are male and yet find your feminine form attractive, they may question their own sexuality, sexual preference, or sexual identity.

While you will not be attractive to a lesbian or a hetersexual woman, you are like honey to flies to bisexuals who will see you as the possibility of the "Best of Both Worlds". You would be surprised at how many men and women, but especially women, have experience and fantasies with both sexes, and would find you nearly irresistible. The thing is they may not want to blow their cover, they may be in a relationship that isn't working, or may just need time to work out the logistics. They may have their friends check you out - as a friend, try to get to know more about you through your friends, especially mutual friends. The more people who know about Luna, the more likely you are to be introduced, by someone you know is NOT interested in you sexually, to someone who IS very interested in exploring all of the possible facets of both your male and female side.

Be willing to let things take time. If you rush things too quickly, you could trigger a jealous lover (boyfriend or girlfriend), you could trigger defensive reactions because she has to prove her loyalty to her current lover, boyfriend, or girlfriend. I have actually had a few situations where a girl I was interested in and approached as Debbie started making wise-cracks, even trying to be mean, and even let her boyfriend "defend" her. A few months later, when she completed the relationship with her boyfriend, she wanted to date me.

Luna, if she is your true self, will be authentic, courageous, integrity, responsibility, and respect for others. She will also bring patience, compassion, and love to the people she meets. To many, the result will be friendships that are deep and lasting, to others, the result may be love and passion that neither of you could have imagined.

Debby
all I can say is wow

This is great info for ALL, Thank you !!!

Everybody here has made some good points. The following are my experiences. I've been out and about for my whole adult life, and playing on stage en femme for about ten years. I think I have met every drunk,beligerant, bigoted, trying to prove something, oversexed and underpaid, type of person. My job also means sometimes I'm loading my van in bad neighborhoods, at all hours. So far, the worst that has happened to me are clumsy passes, squeezed boobs and patted rumps, and couple of 'Jeez, you're a guy'. The most disaproving stares I've gotten are at WalMart, not Mobile Alabama, and even they are rare.
Part of my luck in not being harassed, raped or beaten may be that Canadians are just more accepting, and polite. Or maybe it's just been plain luck, or common sense. I don't ever want to say that it's not dangerous out there, but if you keep your wits about you, stay on the right side of the tracks, and don't allow to get youself in dicey situations, you're about as safe as any GG. My impression of the population as a whole, toward the transgendered, is one of acceptance and equality.-Celeste

Think of it this way. You are far far safer at a mall during the daytime (or nighttime for that matter) than you are in a gay bar. Stay out of the bad and marginal areas of town. Go where a GG would fell comfortable going alone (a mall, the movies, or such.) If someone makes a remark or wants to cause trouble, unless you absolutely have no other choice than to confront them, walk away. I have known some people who have been in this situation, and couldn't let it go and had to have a confrontation; it only escalated the situation and made things worse.

Of course, even if one is into guys, I hope it goes without saying it is a bad idea to try and lead on straight men.

F A C T: If it bleeds it leads. As in news, especially TV. I don't think any sane person who watches the news on a regular basis would argue it. And to be precise, it does not actually need blood. Rape, floods, infidelity... the list is endless but basically as long as it involves Humans suffering or dying, it will lead a newscast. At least where I live so maybe it's only a Florida thing.

IFFFFFFFF CDers if any variety were being "beat up" or "preyed upon" for any reason, I have to believe that it would be in the news. Unless you think there is some conspiracy by ALL of the networks AND the police to supress such news? Not to mention newspapers. Some of us do still read them... Of course, how likely is it that a CDer would report it is an entirely different matter.

My intuition tells me that most all the folks who worry about "passing" would NOT report such an incidemt while those of us not rying to pass/don't care if we pass WOULD report it. I think the math here is pretty easy.

It's also a FACT that many here have gone out "dressed" hundreds of times at every kind of place imagineable and NEVER had a problem of any kind. Of course maybe you think there are lots of folks making up stories for some odd reason?

I think you are far more likely to be involved in a car wreck or struck by lightning than being hurt in some fashion for wearing some/all of the wrong clothes.

Of courseif IF a CDer slinks around like a criminal or has that tail between their legs look, the various scumbags of the earth are likely to easily spot them which invites trouble.

Those bad things certainly happen, but if you are careful you should be fine. Eryn said it: "Think like a GG..." Don't go to the bad parts of town, park where it is well lighted (or go out in daytime), and go where there are plenty of other people (malls, museums, etc.). I think bars are probably not a good place for a CDer.

I guess it depends on where you choose to hang out, and who you hang out with. Test the waters, go to your local shopping mall in the morning, see how you feel, see how people react. Then, go on from there.

I was always told, "if you go to an ass kicking party, you are going to get your ass kicked".
Simply put, don't hang out in places where you know trouble will happen.

I think Debbie said it all - but I basically try to keep aware of my surroundings, take the same precautions that most GG's would take.

And don't try to let guys hit up on you thinking you're a GG ...

Here's hoping that you will find surprisingly friendly encounters with people.

I guess it depends on where you live. The best thing to do is use your common sense, and take notice of your immediate area, as the other posters have suggested.

Keep in mind that what makes headlines are the stories that shock and surprise. You won't find a story of a TS or crossdresser that went out shopping and came home with bags of clothes and no one said a word.
As others have said, think like a woman and take the same precautions. Don't go to areas you know are or could be dangerous. Go with someone if possible. Dress for where you are going so that you look like all the other women there and you don't stand out as a target. Be aware of your surrounding, but don't look like you are always on edge, just be aware.

I've been going out for about 8 years. I've been to malls and restaurants, theaters and hotels without a problem. Sure I've encountered some stares and the occasional comment (like one night at a diner when all the redneck stock car types were there), but never a physical confrontation. If you are very worried, carry Pepper Spray in your purse.

Don't let the headlines take away your life. If we all reacted to what we see in the press we'd never leave the house....drab or dressed.

CherylT- Police, self defence instructors and the like all agree that pepper spray gives a false sense of security that can actually work against you in a confrontation. Most attackers want the element of suprise, and work very fast. Here'e the scenario- Psycho kid demands your wallet. You say politely 'hold on a minute.' You search thru' your purse, find the pepper spray, turn the safety cap forward to arm it (in the dark, you line up two little plastic arrows), get perp to stand still, aim at between 3 and 5 feet. Fire. Min. elapsed time 25 seconds. Perp got tired of waiting at the 8 second mark and grabbed your purse. If you carry the spray in your hand, armed and ready to use, sounds A: a little paranoid B: like your going to have a coat pocket full of pepper spray and blue ink. If pepper spray worked, the bad guys would be using it.-Celeste

While redneck bars in bad neighborhoods are obvious places not to go, you should also stay away from taking walks in the woods or anywhere secluded for that matter. If you run in to the wrong person or people there, you could be in big trouble.

Other than being followed by a creeper or two.... nothing.... but I do choose my venues carefully so that doesn't happen..... stay away from places where groups of teenagers congregate on weekends..... common sense stuff mainly.....

I know that violence has occurred. I can't say that going to gay bars or raves, for example, will be safer than other places. It's possible that predators may seek out just such venues. I personally think we are safer when we can blend in with the crowns at the mall, for example, and other busy public spaces during daylight hours.

I couldn't agree more, I'm not big and scary nor should the clothes I wear make me big and scary.

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Originally Posted by KimberlyF

I very routinely put on my finest, and go out to the local malls, without makeup and wig. I wear my forms, earrings, and of course my full on outfit. I present as an everyday woman, appropriate for where I am, however, I am obviously, a man in a dress. I have yet to encounter any real hostility. I will get the occasional snicker from someone, but all in all, I do find I get alot of open dialogue, especially if I am looking for something and a GG is looking for the same thing. I usually get complimented on my ability to walk in heels, or how my legs look, or how well I can match my colors. Real basic stuff that to the everyday GG, seems unfathomable that a man can accomplish;) If nothing else, it gives the women I have been talking to or who have spotted me, a story to tell about how the "big bad scary crossdresser" really wasn't that bad at all. In fact, might have even been somewhat normal! The way I see it, the chances of a random person, committing a crime in as public a place as the mall, just because you decided to wear a pair of panties today, is very unlikely. I assume most people have a level of sanity of them that although they may not agree, or understand, they will not react with violence.

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Similar to KimberlyF and LadyPilot, I go out in my finest too. Much of the time it is to try attire on that will fit and needs the forms etc in to ensure it will. I have had no problems over here at all doing that and have attended the bar scene with everything on but makeup. In some areas they simply do not care and that is great for us. It has increased my confidence greatly to the extent I frequently go out with our without an hours worth of makeup on just to try a dress on.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

...I can't say that going to gay bars or raves, for example, will be safer than other places....I personally think we are safer when we can blend in with the crowns at the mall, for example....

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I do know that coming home with a few bags of new clothes is much more fun than nursing a hangover, and probably cheaper too! :)

To those who read DebbieL ordeal and think you have to give them a fem name, nothing says you have to have an Alias just because you wear a dress. Do I have an Alias or fem name to the officer, no, I just felt like dressing different tonight, and there's nothing illegal about that. It is tough not to get stressed under these circumstances but many would prefer not to have a fem name as an alias.

As far as safety goes, it is a little tougher to be safe as a girl. The violent prey on the weak, and the weaker you appear the more likely you are to be a target. I feel much safer when I appear as a guy than when I am wearing a dress and heels. It is also harder to run in heels. Best thing to do is always be aware of your surrounds, situational awareness is the key to being safe. If you feel something is wrong in your stomach, listen to it. Try to stay around people, criminals don't like witnesses. I also have one other thing I do to try to insure my safety here in the U.S. , but alas we are not allowed to talk about it on the forum any more :sad: .

I was approached by a CD'er before in Waikiki. I was polite and all that good stuff because I am a closet CD'er. She was obviously a man in woman's clothing and didn't hide that fact. I was in semi-shock when she approached me but yes, there will be others that will jump you cause they feel threatened. My old army buddies would talk about doing that if they got caught "unaware" of that fact. So, yes there will be men that will try to single you out. Just avoid regular bars if you are on a outing. I'm not sure on day to day activities(mall, window shopping, ect). Definitely if you are going en femme for a night out, I'd say stick with a gay / lesbian bar and that scene. Its just safer.

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Debbie had a lot of good points. I too have been going out for a few years now. Some times fully dressed, wig and all. other times I have not worn my wig. Especially when the weather gets colder here in NJ. One thing that I would like to mention is before going out. Look at what the GGs are wearing. If its cold and raining or snowing, then maybe a miniskirt and stilettos should be left home. Maybe a longer skirt with flats or boots would look better.

Today in NJ the weather was cold with temps near 40, it felt more like 25 though. I wore a red turtle neck sweater, a long black skirt (1 foot above the ankles) black tights and black shoes, with a longer winter jacket and a hat on my head. I had my purse over my shoulder, and I went to a few stores in some smaller malls. (Kohls and famous footware in Flemington) I looked like a lot of other GG's even though I wasn't. Call it camouflage, call it blending in.... but nobody even gave me a double look.

I have had a few encounters while out and have had some nasty stuff verbally thrown at me so be ready for it.
Two guys clocked me at a 7/11 type store and told me they were going to kick my backside because I was a freak and a Di&% sucking fag.
I kept walking to my car and one followed me. I turned and said one more step and you are going to get more than you bargained for.
I think the fact I was smiling and not acting scared made him think twice.
Main thing as stated already stay out of bad areas and keep track of what is going on around you.