Not quite TS.

Do any of you feel that the clothing is a means to an end, not an end in itself, and do you feel like the same person regardless of how you are dressed?
My therapist has been asking great questions. And yes, I am seeing a gender therapist who takes care of a lot of trans folks....across the entire spectrum. Of course, a clear distinction between CD and TS may seem obvious at first, but I bet a lot of us are stuck in a 'gray' zone.....not quite feeling male or female, for whatever that is worth.....

I feel like the same person when dressed and presenting as a woman. I do allow myself to think I look good as a woman. I don't do that as a man. But my wife says I'm a good looking woman because I am a good look guy.

I feel pretty much that way. I'm "me" regardless of how I am dressed. Being in drab means I have to exhibit male behaviors which I am proficient at after decades of practice but which I don't find pleasant. Being dressed means that I can dispense with those behaviors and adopt feminine ones, something that I'm still learning about.

I feel the same either way, for the most part. But i have to say when I dress I do FEEL a little different in my head, but maybe my mind is just playing games with me.

I'm the same person, though I allow myself to be a bit more expressive and open when femme. Over the years, I have grown to be more comfortable as a lady, but I haven't lost my male side.

crossdressing is a behavior for me, and i feel feminine in a way i don't when i'm not en femme. i still feel feminine when i'm dressed in drab, but the behavior of cd'ing makes me look the part more, and reinforces my feelings. i do not feel totally masculine or feminine, it's more fluid for me, both at once, or one more than the other, or just one.

I have no idea where I fit in the grey area.I do know when I am dressed I'm essentially the same person.
I normally act feminine in guy mode so maybe it feels more normal/natural when I'm presenting as a female.

I'm as grey zone as it gets, and to be honest...... I really don't care.
Life is gud. :ms:

i guess grey would be a great way to put it...were i want to be is somewhere in the middle.

Understanding who you are is literally the first part of the journey. It can also be the most difficult part because it requires you to be completely honest with yourself. There is absolutely no shame in being who you are, whoever that may be. The authenticity will ring true for people, even perfect strangers and they will accept you in spite of themselves. This doesn't apply to just 'coming out' either. If you're not transitioning then coming out isn't exactly necessary, but people will notice something about you when you have embraced your true nature even if you keep it private. (not secret, but private)

A clear distinction between TS and CD doesn't exist as far as I can tell. Too many of us have too many external things in common, so to me the only way to even make a distinction for the sake of fellowship is to use the act of transition as the marker. It's not perfect, but it's really the only thing I can figure that works since most (MOST not all) TS people will eventually transition.

This gray area thing has got to be a real MF'er because you don't ever seem to get any peace. I hang out with a couple of CD's quite a bit (AllieSF and Rachael Sloane) and they are both extremely well put together in their presentation, and they're both really level headed and just all around cool people. They are closeted to some degree but still get out a lot and I mean a LOT and they meet tons of people and have tons of fun. Sometimes when we're hanging out I feel kind of bad for them because they are only part-time and they're not able to blend their lives. On the other hand, they seem to have more fun than I do, and more often. They have both told me that they are happy with the way things are and I'm happy FOR them. I'm also happy to hang out with them so it just goes to show you that the labels are simply descriptors and your place on the 'gender scale' doesn't include or preclude you from doing whatever it is YOU want to do.

The dressing thing does not make or break a TS diagnosis, ditto for the 'feeling' male or female. I don't think I feel any more or less female than any CD or GG. How would I know that? My torrid year of crossdressing and my subsequent transition wasn't about how I felt, it was ALL about how other people felt about me. I thought I was just gay, but the crossdressing showed me that I really liked it when people treated me like something other than a man. So the clothes were definitely a means to an end. If I went through all of that trouble to get made up then I would be rewarded with being treated like a girl. Eventually I came to hate the dressing up because it was just so damn much work to look like a dude in a dress, but I was already in love with being seen as a feminine entity. That weird conflict is what drove me into therapy and, well you know the rest.

I'm the same drab or enfemme. No desire to be a woman nor feel like a woman (wouldn't know what felt like anyway ;) )

In my younger days I tried hard to feel like a man! When I accepted myself for who I am I realized it was time to be ''me'' and and enjoy my life!

When I showed up here, I KNEW what would happen next. The woman inside me would finally show herself! I couldn't be dressing for over 10 years for another reason could I?

That was 5 years ago. She must have run off. Probably felt she couldn't compete with Sherry?

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Originally Posted by melissakozak

a clear distinction between CD and TS may seem obvious at first, but I bet a lot of us are stuck in a 'gray' zone.....not quite feeling male or female, for whatever that is worth.....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

I have no idea where I fit in the grey area.I do know when I am dressed I'm essentially the same person.
I normally act feminine in guy mode so maybe it feels more normal/natural when I'm presenting as a female.

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Have either of you considered that you may not be either? A lot of cultures have the notion of "two spirit" or (to use a more recent term) bi-gender.

The medical folks might put it down to a sort of mild form of gender dysphoria, but perhaps you inhabit both genders.

I'm starting to see a gender counselor now, too, and I'm learning that the first thing out of my mouth (or my keyboard) is not necessarily what I truly think. Seems to take me a mental pause to determine if what I'm thinking or saying or typing is simply what I want to be, hear, or appear as, versus a fundamental, honest expression of my true self.

In this case I'm not sure if I can logic out that I'm the same person in drab or dressed, but I'm finding that clothes are not an end in themselves for me. Regardless of my logic, a few immediate, emotional reactions come forward to inform me:

(1) when I AM dressed I feel very "well," less stressed, and more loving and kind towards those in my life;

(2) the more that I dress openly, i.e., not in secret, the less important the particular item of clothing or outfit I'm wearing matters, I just feel increasingly like described in item 1 above, and

(3) I feel an emotional darkness attempt to descend around me when I undress back to drab.

Am I the "same" person? I guess so.

Am I more trans* than just CD? Evidently.

Do I understand this yet? No.

Am I happier and more content overall? Yes!

I'm in the grey area as well. I do think more ts than cd. I think it is progressing more ts over the last two years. Now that my wife knows I think I can let my gaurd down more. Not that it is 100 percent okay with her, but the band aid has been taken off and the healing can begin.

Melissa K,
Dressing may be a means to an end but I dress to fit the weather, the situation and my mood at the time.

Melissa Hobbes,
an eloquently written piece that every one who has mixed emotions and diverse views should read.
I found it thought provoking like a lot of your other posts.
As you have been there and are doing it now it carries a lot of meaning to read what you say.

My counselor has even mentioned the concept of being 'two spirited.' Problem is honoring both without destroying one or the other, etc. Plus, I am bisexual regardless of what I am wearing, so as you can imagine, there has been a massive amount of confusion.....

I sort of identify as "trans something or another", I lived with one set of labels and required behaviors for decades, I'm not there anymore but haven't figured out an ultimate destination for my life, so I'm in no rush to add new labels and expected behavirs.

conceptually i would say there is clear distinction between ts and cd...and i'd add the gender queer/bi gendered as well... cd is a catch all term that includes people that dress for sexual reasons and for identity related reasons...

to me the clear distinction is that transsexuals usually end up realizing that their male person is zero...where the cd and other gender blessed people can function well as males with varying levels of feminine expression required for whatever reason...
NOT being able to feel fulfilled in any way as a male is the marker.. so you the distinction is very clear, but its impossible to really see or analyze

transition is the only marker we can know for sure...but i'm sure there are many in this section that will discover over time that they can't ever feel authentic as a male... transition for most of us is about relief from a living hell...the lucky one embrace their femaleness early and i'm forever jealous of them but i'm happy for them too...the good news about transition is that there is almost no chance you will transition by mistake...it takes so long and is just so difficult that most persevere because the alternative is such a low quality of life...

and that's what it should be all about...quality of life...what is your best quality of life?? that's the ballgame

if you are confused about yourself, i say enjoy it, explore it, chase your ideal...and see where it leads...if you feel good as male or female why mess with that?

in my experience for people that are transsexual its pretty much out of their control anyway...in other words, if you are ok with life, and your male side is puttering along then you are unlikely to every consider the idea of being ts or transition...its when your life becomes "not OK" when you start to get serious about this question...some call it getting your bell rung...some hate that term...but i think its apt and i've seen it over and over...

i posted 1000's of times here as a crossdresser, sharing my adventures and explorations...i was quite confident that i knew what i was doing..then "ding".... just my own experience of course, but i've seen it many many times...

Like a lot, I find it difficult to label myself to fit in a position, and agree with Melissa that the one big item that really tells you where you fit for sure is transition. failing that, I know my internal makeup is now female. I know I cannot present my inner self as I would like to, and must present male. does this make me feel less female, not really anymore, but it does raise questions in my mind that continually raises the gray flag.

Barbara

I'm not in that gray area, just a guy who likes to dress up occasionally. And I don't want to turn this into another argument over definitions.
But it seems to me that it is the in-betweeners that refer to themselves as TG, redefining the word to mean "more than CD, not quite TS" instead of the umbrella definition.

Interesting post, Melissa! Right now I describe myself as "borderline TS"--which sounds a lot better than "I really don't know what I am." I'm not really worried right now about what I am. I suppose I'll find out eventually. But I plan on letting that knowledge come, if it comes at all, in its own time.

Having been full-time for almost three months, I've been enjoying life immensely. I was never uncomfortable in drab. I didn't feel horrible about myself or anything like that. But it only took me about 3 outings en femme to feel much more natural than I ever have before. I used not to be uncomfortable in drab: I won't wear drab any more. My feelings have changed to the point that drab would feel like CDing to me, and I'm not a CDer. (I'm a gender-conforming T-girl.)

No, the way I live and dress feels perfectly natural to me, and I'd never want to go back to my old life. A lot of people talk about trying to "act girly/feminine" when they're dressed. I don't. I simply go about my business. I don't feel like "a man in a dress", and I don't know that I give people the impression that's what I am. I don't try to put on act.

I still feel like the same person. All I'm doing is allowing myself to live certain feelings that I always kept repressed before. You know the old saying, "It's the same thing--just different." That's where I am: I'm the same person, just different.

Annabelle

Personally I think that you have two ends of the spectrum that do not meet , CD at one end and TS at the other and the bit separating them is TG which I would not call a grey area but more of a shifting sands type of thing and it will depend on what cycle you get as to where your feelings will be whether you are at a TG part of it and therefore not taking a great deal of notice to it (as this has the least pull on emotions ) or whether you are at your TS part of it then you will be experiencing all the emotions at their highest point and you will have a big desire for change , I think that the TG part can act in two ways , firstly it can hold off the TG feelings for a while if you allow yourself to indulge in it enough so that it will for fill some of your needs but it will not do it forever, or secondly it can accelerate your TS feelings if you indulge in it to deeply by thinking about it to much instead of letting things play out in there own way but there are also things that can happen in your life that can get in the way of your natural cycle and completely put it off balance and that can be even more confusing as the highs and lows can then be more intense, saying all of that you could still use a similar scenario for CD to TG except that there are a lot of CDs who have no feminine feeling at all whereas it will always be a part of a TG , so not a grey area just a shifting one , well that's how I see it or feel it .

[SIZE="3"]I like being a boy, and I like being a girl. There's a change in me when en femme. No doubt about it, and I like it, alot! That's why I dress. Pretty simple actually.

Oh yeah, for what it's worth, I'm an equal opportunity flirt.[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Eryn

I feel pretty much that way. I'm "me" regardless of how I am dressed. Being in drab means I have to exhibit male behaviors which I am proficient at after decades of practice but which I don't find pleasant. Being dressed means that I can dispense with those behaviors and adopt feminine ones, something that I'm still learning about.

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^this pretty much describes it, though I don't use 'drab' to describe my male clothing, as women seem to find it rather attractive (you don't have to look plain if you don't want to; a man in a fine suit of clothes, with good posture and presence, will stand out virtually anywhere he goes). But I don't try to adopt female behavior or mannerisms, I'm not trying to convert myself into something else. Again to quote Popeye, 'I yam what I yam'. I look at my male clothing as a uniform that I have to wear to work and get through life with the least amount of aggravation; nothing more, nothing less.

I am pretty sure where I stand. I always thought I should be female. As far back as I can remember anyway. I spent many years performing the part of a male, and with that much practice I guess anyone can get good at it. I do not like being male, I don't like being thought of as a male. The only problem is I have spent so many years living as one that I just have too much invested to change not only my life, but the lives of my family as well. For me it is just impractical to transition so I have chosen not to. Does this mean I am or am not a TS? I guess that depends on the definition of TS. I am me. I spend time out in the world dressed as a woman, and feel good when I do. I like it when a man opens a door for me at a restaurant, or when someone calls me Maam. I like looking in the mirror and seeing myself as I think of myself, and I always feel a little sad when I have to change into a man again. Is my life a living hell because I have a male body? No. I am happy to be able to be a woman sometimes even if only in appearance. I know I will never be a woman, but what I do is enough for me. So if circumstances were different I would live full time as a woman, and I would love to have the body to match. It is not to be, so I can be happy with what I have.

As a genetic male (ugh) I can say with authority (at least for me) that when I dress I become the female that I should have been born. I considered transitioning many times and consulted with the appropriate doctors but didn't go through with the end result because of one constraint or another. I don't know as to where I fit in (CD, TS or some other label) but I feel totally different when I am dressed fully or partially dressed. The mere thought of shedding my male behaviors for female behaviors has a profound effect on me. I much prefer my female side and wish that I had transitioned. So I guess I have a split personality, female dominated!!!!!

Molly

Hey melisss, nice thoughtful post! To me I don't have a particular agenda or road map for transition but some physical changes are very helping in terms of mitigate the gender stress. Does that make me TS or TG? :-) Part of the problem is I cannot totally focus on myself because "me" is sorta defined by people around me, not entirely but a great deal of it.

For me it is just that I always wanted to be a girl. I have weighed the consequences of transitioning, or even coming out to my family and employer and just cannot justify all I would lose or the discomfort I would cause to others. I have known this since I was very young and it never ebbed or changed. I always wanted to be female but I have realized I cannot be. It is good enough to be able to present as one at times when I can. If I could I would always present as a lady. I am not different when dressed as when in drab. I am this way due to a birth defect and I can accept that. There are many things about me that just aren't right as a male and never have been.I actually feel more like a crossdresser when I am dressed as a man than when as a lady. I feel normal then.