Dudes are totally cool with being dudes...get used to it!!!

There has been an abundance of commentary of late which contains various lamentations about how boring menswear is. I've even seen a comment or two talk about how if more guys "tried" to integrate women's clothing into their wardrobe that somehow our numbers would swell.

Yeah, right.

Thing is, guys are generally perfectly content being the guys they are. 99.whatever% of men don't get up in the morning and find themselves bummed out by the fact the cannot wear a dress. In fact, many men look upon the female rituals of dress, hair & makeup as being utterly bewildering.

Visualize any man in the public eye and try to put him in women's clothing in your mind's eye. Aside from the fact he'd more than likely find the thought appalling, chances are he'd look rather unusual as well, perhaps even silly, when compared with how dapper and handsome he is when presenting as the male that he is.

I've commented before on a NHL coach, Guy Boucher of the Tampa Bay Lightning. His picture has been prominent on the SI NHL page due to an article about him being on the hot seat which kind of fed into my current thoughts on this posting. I believe it was at the draft a couple years back when I saw him with his entourage (including Steve Yzerman) and noticed not only how handsome of a man he was but also that it was absolutely impossible for me to get my head around him or anyone else in his group being anything but satisfied with his wardrobe choices that make him look the man that he is. Same holds true for the Oscar's this past weekend. The men pretty much looked amazing in their tuxedos. That was no senior prom where most of the kids rent their tuxes at the same shop and look identical. Instead, each one had designer nuances that you know these stars, these men, picked out with attention to detail to look the best they could (or at least their stylists did so). Did they lament the efforts their female counterparts go through? I seriously doubt it aside from that very small percentage who MIGHT have a transgender streak in their being.

Many men are content with lazy casual such as jeans and a t-shirt. Some women can be just the same. But generally, the choices men have from casual to business dress to formal wear has enough variety and color to keep 99.whatever% of men out there perfectly happy with their choices. Put a man in a skirt on a fashion show runway and it's going nowhere unless the man on Main Street embraces it and that ain't likely to happen any time soon. It's no conspiracy. It's just the evolution of fashion on both sides of the gender fence which is based on a binary where men are men and women are women. Some lines get blurred but rarely are they crossed in the mainstream. And women tend to find their men attractive when they look like men. Imagine that???

Think about what brings us to these pages in the first place. It's about who we are, what we do or a combination of the two. Think about how you started this whole thing. A child of five years in his mom's closet isn't likely thinking forward about how his fashion choices will be severely limited if he doesn't get into this CD'ing thing. Just the same, the average guy can't get his head around why we are who we are or why we do what we do. Stop trying to recruit him to the cause. Let him be happy being the man he is, something he really gives no second thought to.

When we say men’s clothing is boring we are only talking about boring to us.

And to say “if more guys "tried" to integrate women's clothing into their wardrobe that somehow our numbers would swell” just sounds silly to me.

Jessica, i hear you girl, i could not agree more, let them stay in the comfortable cookie cutter, and let the rest of us (girls ) enjoy life to the fullest, well said girl, hugs.

Very well said Sarah. I think that was definitely a point worth making.

yes exactly. men's fashion is boring (to us), because we aren't normal dudes.
Normal dudes like that stuff, that's why the manufacturers make it that way.

when I see the umpteenth post about "how unfair it is that women get to wear our clothes but we can't wear theirs" or "if they only made men's pantyhose ..." (they do, but almost nobody buys them) ... it's really just another way of saying "if the world was slightly different, I wouldn't be weird".

Well, I suppose that's true, LOL ... for everyone, everywhere, all the time.

We're all different. If this is the way you're different you just have to come to terms with it.
excellent post :-)

I guess I may be a little strange on this topic as I really kind of like men's fashion. It's not the same as woman's fashion but there are ways to spruce it up. I tend to wear a lot of French cuffs, since they are coming back, I love to accessorize them with cufflinks and ties etc. Just like crossdressing and wanting to look good as a woman when I go out, I also like to look my best whenever I venture out of the house in man mode. I don't really like the term drab because really it's not.

I like to compliment my wife when we go out as husband and wife; that means looking my best and dressing my part. In girl mode I also like to look my best when going out. Its about confidence and presence; a sharp suit and a tie make me feel very confidant, similarly a classy dress and heels do the same for me.

Megan

Yes I fully agree. Sometimes, it seems, we feel the need work just a little too hard at explaining our unique clothing desires. A bad explanation is no better--and often worse--than no explanation.

I think most of us that have been around the traps agree with you.
When I go out in a suit I like to look sharp.
I am still a predator if a woman takes a shine to me.
I always go home with my wife.
She only lets me out on the weekends anyway.
Other make inventive and innovative arguments about forms of dress.
Maybe they like hearing their voices more than I do.

In a predominantly binary "gender system", the large majority of folks, both men and women have no thoughts of being "switch hitters". They have enough problems being who they are. Forward and progressive thinkers, however, are always going to be among mankind and will think and live outside of the "box". Many of us here are the latter it seems. It is what it is.:battingeyelashes::)

Men's clothing is only boring if you make them so..... personally I typically over dress.... and love to look good and stand out no mater which gender.... and I have the dry cleaning bill to prove it! lol

I agree with Kate. I am one that thinks if more guys tried this or that, they may like it. Reason being? Well, when you have been restricted from something all your life due to social or familial reasons, and then you finally get to experience it, at least a portion of the sample group will take to that new experience. Remember many many men are under the notion that fem clothing is "sissy" or other such things. They have NEVER been able to experience said styles unless it was done in a manner that in many ways is derogatory to the usual wearer's of said styles (eg, frat party pranks, and such).

I do not think the idea that if SOME men who have not tried out the styles actually did, some would take to it is anywhere near a "silly" notion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

Men's clothing is only boring if you make them so..... personally I typically over dress.... and love to look good and stand out no mater which gender.... and I have the dry cleaning bill to prove it! lol

---

You always look great my friend and you know how fussy I am.:heehee::)

Boring? At the moment I'm sitting here in a charcoal-grey pinstriped suit, green cable-stitch sweater, white shirt (okok...I only own 2 white shirts but I needed it not to clash with everything else!), and burgundy shoes (not quite wing tips, but almost!). I walked out of the bedroom this morning and caught my wife's eye, and I have no doubt that she saw nothing boring at all! I could have added accent with a sharp tie, but I was dressing down today :)

Boring is what you make of it. Tina has done a bit of a refocussing of my sense of fashion, so I would say that my dress is not as "drab" as it might have been before, but looking sharp can be done in either gender. Looking less than sharp also has no gender boundries!

And tomorrow will be tight jeans and probably a red polo shirt with a black hoodie! Well, it's supposed to be terrible weather :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

Think about what brings us to these pages in the first place. It's about who we are, what we do or a combination of the two. Think about how you started this whole thing. A child of five years in his mom's closet isn't likely thinking forward about how his fashion choices will be severely limited if he doesn't get into this CD'ing thing. Just the same, the average guy can't get his head around why we are who we are or why we do what we do. Stop trying to recruit him to the cause. Let him be happy being the man he is, something he really gives no second thought to.

---

Yes, I agree with you. You’re either drawn this way, or you’re not, so “recruitment” is not even a possibility. I had a lot of fun years ago dressing in the best men’s clothing I could afford, feeling like I was dressed well, yet appropriate to my gender. I enjoyed that, and it was a stepping stone on the way to MtF crossdressing – at least I can look at it that way in retrospect. I know for a fact that male fashion choices are NOT severely limited – I wore all kinds of male things that were tactile, sublime and revelatory in a liberating sense. However, the truly magical things, especially in terms of shape, color, and diaphanous-ness, were all the province of the female. I gravitated to the latter, but I did not decry my adventures with fine male clothing...

I still take note of how males are dressed, knowing full well they can “clean up well” (as my sister would say) if they choose to do so. Style seems to be retreating these days, while comfort precludes (or reinforces) any deficiencies in appearance. Some men have no interest in dressing well, so the need to crossdress would naturally be a complete mystery to them. I feel that a few of us have a little more in the sensibility department, perhaps cultivated (or developed) over time, and CD’ing is just one outlet for this inherent sensitivity. As you say, it’s who we ARE...
:battingeyelashes:

If the male wardrobe included skirts, heeled shoes, dresses, and leggings, you know, like how the feminine wardrobe includes pants, slacks, (Pretty much the same), blazers...and if the male styles allowed makeup to emphasize the eyes, and long hair..hey I would be all for the male wardrobe.

I just don't like being limited to pants, no matter how nice they are in designed. I don't like the notion that because I am male I cannot use makeup to make my eyes look nice (I get so many compliments of how great my eyes look when I have just a small bit of shadow on in male mode.)

Right now I am in male mode. Dark Red dress shirt, black vest zipped shut, but in place of pants I have my black American Apparel disco skirt, and off black hose. For my feet, my heeled (1/2") pull up motor cycle boots. This outfit aside from the skirt is a masculine outfit, there is no reason the addition of the skirt should make it any less. My hair is pulled back into a tail, no makeup, though I would love to wear some shadow.

Yet it does.

If I could post post male pics here, I would to show my outfit.

Well said Sara! "Alpha males" have no interest in women's clothes other than taking them off her.:) They can't be converted.

Many MTF's use the excuse of better choices and fabrics in women's clothes. Most of the population doesn't buy it. Besides most Cder's go beyond the clothes and get into wigs, forms, makeup, fashion mags, etc. That's why the term transgender applies ( ouch, I know). It's more than the clothes to most MTF's and that's where the general population gets confused about it and the MTF's sexuality. They just assume a man dresses as a woman to attract men. It makes sense if you look at it objectively.

Marleena is right. If society had evolved so that only men wore dresses and only women wore slacks, we'd all be in slacks and visiting this site having the same conversation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pythos

I agree with Kate. I am one that thinks if more guys tried this or that, they may like it. Reason being? Well, when you have been restricted from something all your life due to social or familial reasons, and then you finally get to experience it, at least a portion of the sample group will take to that new experience. Remember many many men are under the notion that fem clothing is "sissy" or other such things. They have NEVER been able to experience said styles unless it was done in a manner that in many ways is derogatory to the usual wearer's of said styles (eg, frat party pranks, and such).

I do not think the idea that if SOME men who have not tried out the styles actually did, some would take to it is anywhere near a "silly" notion.

---

I was thinking the same thing.

In the original post it was suggested that males are happy with their choices. I understand that it may SEEM to be true. How can it not seem to be true when NO males (even most of us here) would admit to anyone that we are not happy with the choices we have (except in this forum)? Most males don't know what they're missing, right? So it's not like they've all CHOSEN to not like wearing something "different". And if the thought ever occurred to the average male it would most likely be suppressed? If the suppression was not present then there (I think) would be many more "average males" that would want to expand the choices that they have available to themselves. This is only my guess since no survey that I'm aware of has ever been done on males but even if there was such a survey I doubt that it would prove anything (again due to the suppression).

Current male culture is such that for the most part we are supposed to look "the same" or very similar and to the extent that we push the normal is to the extent that we are "made fun of" even if it is just playful fun. The "making fun" of any male that tries to look nice (in male clothing) is the first wave of suppression that we experience -- like why are you looking so nice when most everyone around is wearing T-shirts (or shirts chosen for comfort exclusive to style) and jeans and running shoes all the time?

This is the opposite of the current female culture which promotes the idea that women should express themselves through clothing to express their individuality.

Within our popular mainstream male culture, we're supposed to not care, not supposed to think at all, about what we wear to the chagrin of many females. It's almost so bad that if a male wears male clothing that shows that he's put some thought into it that something is weird about that guy(!). If a guy shows that he puts A LOT of thought into his male clothing then there is definitely something strange about that person -- so our popular male culture tells us. If you don't believe me then try wearing "cropped" mens pants (maybe an inch shorter leg length than normal) to work which show your socks a little more that the average pants that slouch over the shoes.

I read an article just over a few months ago in that stated that upwards of 70% of females consider themselves tomboys. And I know from my own experience that almost every intelligent (not exclusive to attractiveness) woman I've known or befriended has claimed to be tomboyish or have some typically male qualities. But I doubt that so many average males would suggest that they have traits typically considered "feminine". We're supposed to be all man all the time, right? At least pop-culturally.

It's not Rocket Science for anyone WILLING to pull their heads out of the sand and their fingers from their ears.

Yes to your original post and I resist the trend to call my guy clothes drab also. I like what I wear as a guy. It's comfortable, looks good, it's easy and way less expensive than girl clothes.

I agree. Most men are fine with the choices they have and do not see anything boring about it. I also do not wish to see men start wearing womens fashions. I like that there is a difference between men and women, I just would rather be a woman so I attempt to look the part. A man who looks like a man does not look good in a skirt or dress and that will likely not change. For the most part men like being men and women like being women. There are just a few of us who prefer the opposite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by almostalady

A man who looks like a man does not look good in a skirt or dress and that will likely not change. For the most part men like being men and women like being women. There are just a few of us who prefer the opposite.

---

This is not true. A website exists where men wear skirts as men - not pretending to be a woman. Men have worn skirts and sarongs for years, and in many cultures still wear skirts today. It is the same as women wearing pants.

I think it's partly because many men view clothing as utilitarian. They wear clothes to cover themselves, to keep warm, to stop sparks from the welding torch hitting their skin, etc. I know that's long been how I view my men's clothes. Clothes for many men are meant to fade into the background, not stand out -- hence the preference for dark, neutral, and cool colors (blues, blacks, greys, khakis).

Take a look at the younger men's section of a department store, though, and you'll see a lot more brighter colors, textured fabrics, styled looks -- in other words, clothes meant to draw attention. That's because younger men are courting, and so they need to "look good".

Women's clothes, on the other hand, always seem to be in part about being on display. Even utilitarian clothing like workout clothes in the women's section usually have points of bright color -- gray workout pants with bright pink piping, etc. Not surprisingly, women are more often judged by the way they dress then men are ["OMG! Hillary's wearing a pantsuit!"].

I dunno, in a professional environment lets say. Man comes to work in suit and tie, or dress shirt and slacks daily. Now you can dress this up with plenty different colors. But at the end of the day, its still slacks, shirt, coat and tie. Now imagine wearing a pink suit, or red slacks or a yellow suit? Folks are gonna make fun of it. Say it's not appropriate. Women can wear all those colors as the basic out fit. All those different styles of boots they wear. If you came in with pants tucked into boots they'd laugh.
I do like to look good in male mode. To me, there are more possibilites that exist for fashion within the realm of women's wear.

Are you saying they are just as many options available to men as women? I don't know what it is that causes me to CD, but I know it goes further than the clothes themselves.

I agree with Sarah and nearly al the posts here. It really is an individual thing. Some men like plain vanilla and don't even think about. Same can be said for women. Others have that second sense about fashion, both male and female, and can make it really work for them. Either way, dudes are dudes, and gals are gals. Some of us now get to walk both sides. I was plain vanilla, blue blazer, white shirt, tan slacks, and an occasional nice tie to "spice" it up. Now I like heels, dresses, jewelry, then blouses and skirts, always conscious of presentation and total picture. I am happy with either right now, but have preferences. And aren't we all glad we can pursue our preferences.

Barbara

I think that if you have to dress like a dude, you should go all the way. My dude attire usually includes slacks, dress shirt or turtleneck and a sport coat. Sometimes a suit and tie. Even back when I worked on construction I used to enjoy putting on nice dude clothes when I got off work. I like dressing up even when I can't wear a dress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marleena

Well said Sara! "Alpha males" have no interest in women's clothes other than taking them off her.:) They can't be converted.

Many MTF's use the excuse of better choices and fabrics in women's clothes. Most of the population doesn't buy it. Besides most Cder's go beyond the clothes and get into wigs, forms, makeup, fashion mags, etc. That's why the term transgender applies ( ouch, I know). It's more than the clothes to most MTF's and that's where the general population gets confused about it and the MTF's sexuality. They just assume a man dresses as a woman to attract men. It makes sense if you look at it objectively.

---

Completely agree with you. In my opinion, I believe that cd's are (for want of a better word) using clothes, wigs, make-up, etc to externalise (project) something that resides inside ourselves. One way I look at it is that I belong slap bang in the middle. My birth gender is male, yet I don't regard myself as a man in the same sense that I believe other men do. I can't say for sure, because I can't speak for any other man, but by the same token I can't speak for women either. Hence why I position myself somewhere between the two. Not completely masculine, but not completely feminine either. But in embracing my feminine side, I dress and present myself in attire that is traditionally associated to the female gender. In essence, I'm projecting my inner self externally.

As far as the general population getting confused and thus trying to rationalise their own confusion by questioning the sexual preference of a cd, I believe that's just people trying to put people into boxes in an attempt to make it easier for themselves to overcome their own confusion. If you, Marleena, are right and such people just assume that a man dresses as a woman to attract men, then it says more about their own attitude towards women (and more specifically women's fashion) than it does in regards to cd's. For such an attitude would be akin to saying that women's clothing is designed solely for the benefit of men - to make woman attractive to men. An egotistical attitude that completely ignores the fact that women do not dress solely in order to attract men. A statement that I think (hope) we would all agree on. And I believe that exactly the same can be said of cd's. In short, we dress the way we do because we like it. We don't do so in order to appeal to the conceptions of others. Just like women will, we simply dress for ourselves.

I dont think anyone is trying to get every man in the world to all of a sudden change their fashion choices towards androgyny, but the pages of this website are filled with people complaining about mens fashion.

Finding a balance for people is what the threads that you are complaining about, are about. There is no need to emasculate the Tuxedo or the everyday choices for most men.

In spite of all the same classic fashion choices that are available to men everyday of the year, the fashion industry still keeps making cool new styles every year that break the Man Laws of Fashion. That fact is what keeps me excited, not the fact that other men wear the same thing, but the fact that i have new choices for my male attire.

As a Crossdresser, i still shop in the Women's section for my girl clothes, but i have no problem rocking mens combat boots with my Drag look....or incorporating something femme into my male attire. I will always leave skirts for Drag/CDing, unless im doing a Braveheart......

-Donni-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jenni_xx

As far as the general population getting confused and thus trying to rationalise their own confusion by questioning the sexual preference of a cd, I believe that's just people trying to put people into boxes in an attempt to make it easier for themselves to overcome their own confusion. If you, Marleena, are right and such people just assume that a man dresses as a woman to attract men, then it says more about their own attitude towards women (and more specifically women's fashion) than it does in regards to cd's. For such an attitude would be akin to saying that women's clothing is designed solely for the benefit of men - to make woman attractive to men. An egotistical attitude that completely ignores the fact that women do not dress solely in order to attract men. A statement that I think (hope) we would all agree on. And I believe that exactly the same can be said of cd's. In short, we dress the way we do because we like it. We don't do so in order to appeal to the conceptions of others. Just like women will, we simply dress for ourselves.

---

Ahhh.. I should have worded that better. What they (general public) are seeing is a man appearing as a female in front of them. They automatically question that. It has nothing to do with dressing provocatively (although some CD/TG/ might).

Anybody that goes beyond the clothing aspect has to question why they do it and learn to accept it's more than the clothes instead of making excuses for themselves, I've been there myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marleena

Ahhh.. I should have worded that better. What they (general public) are seeing is a man appearing as a female in front of them. They automatically question that. It has nothing to do with dressing provocatively (although some CD/TG/ might).

Anybody that goes beyond the clothing aspect has to question why they do it and learn to accept it's more than the clothes instead of making excuses for themselves, I've been there myself.

---

To be honest, the way you worded it was just fine. In my reply to you, I never meant to imply that it had to do with dressing provocatively, so perhaps I should be the one who should have worded my post better. To clarify, my post was specifically addressing the notion of simply appearing as a female in front of men. No matter the style of clothing, be it provocative or conservative, there are men (there are people in the "general public") who will interpret others "public persona" in the way that will not extend beyond their own rationale.

But, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves here. We are speaking only in terms of expressing opinion, not fact. You, nor I, can really say with total assurance what "THEY" are seeing. Nor what "THEY" are automatically questioning.

Quote:

---

also do not wish to see men start wearing womens fashions. I like that there is a difference between men and women

---

and there, in my opinion is a thought line that poses a big problem.
I for one DO NOT like the limitations based upon what is on our chest and between our legs (and lets admit it, that is exactly what it is)

This line sounds like the men that were all "I personally never want women to get into my field of work, I like women knowing their place."

Sorry but that is what I see when I see a male, or a female, or a Tg saying such a line.

The only limitations are those which society imposes. I love the fact that you do not like limitations, and I'm with you on that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

Stop trying to recruit him to the cause. Let him be happy being the man he is, something he really gives no second thought to.

---

This line you really can't prove. Assuming everyman is an individual, then what you see isn't necessarily what you get. Supposing someone saw you at a company presentation looking all tony in your Brooks Brothers suit and said that of you. It would in fact be a total miss on their part. some men may not be "aware" of deeper feelings, some may have buried it, and some men may "come around" when they are 50 and some just do it and hide it.
By looking at some of yesteryears great dressers like Cary Grant, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire,, even Rock Hudson and Tab Hunter and Richard Chamberlain were pretty classy dressers but hardly anyone would have pegged them as gay/bi, since they played the romantic lead with such panache. They certainly looked like a man's man.
It is hard to make a real assessment of your neighbor, as they often times turn out to be serial killers, bank robbers, child molesters and worse.
People that appear to approve , or at least don't say anything contrary, of men is skirts may have their own pecadillos so they don't see that being a Cder is necessarily odd. We vocally or silently approve of things based on our own inner condition. Someone doesn't look like a commie but they might give someone a pass if they started spouting Lenin. Are they a liberal or a sympathizer?
to suggest that 99 whatever% are cookie cutter people isn't fair by a long shot and may be missing a lot of things by a mile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pythos

and there, in my opinion is a thought line that poses a big problem.
I for one DO NOT like the limitations based upon what is on our chest and between our legs (and lets admit it, that is exactly what it is)

This line sounds like the men that were all "I personally never want women to get into my field of work, I like women knowing their place."

Sorry but that is what I see when I see a male, or a female, or a Tg saying such a line.

---

Pythos, you hit the nail on the head! We should not base clothing choices on what is between our legs. I have been doing some googling with interesting results. For example google "men wearing womens clothing" and read the websites that appear in the top 20 results. After you have finished, then gooble "women wearing men's clothing" and read the websites that appear in the top 20 results. In the case of men wearing women's clothing, there are a lot of negative comments and social implications. In the case of women wearing men's clothing, there are not so many negative comments or social implications, and in fact, there is a lot of encouragement and reference to articles in women's magazines on how to incorporate men's clothing/accessories to appear more masculine. Yes, many of these magazines actually advocate women appearing more masculine. Google proves the double standard, Just do the google searches above if you don't believe me.

I stated this in another post, but I think it would serve better as a point to be reiterated here:
I am a human being who just happens to wear clothes.
Leaves didn't cover enough, and loincloths were somehow worse. LOL
Sometimes it's Guy Clothing, sometimes its Girl Clothing, and I style myself accordingly to what I wear.
I feel comfortable in what I wear when I wear it, as I choose my attire with equal care either way.
Beyond the stripped down elemental fact of I wear clothing, everything else is simply a matter of personal taste.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pythos

I agree with Kate. I am one that thinks if more guys tried this or that, they may like it. Reason being? Well, when you have been restricted from something all your life due to social or familial reasons, and then you finally get to experience it, at least a portion of the sample group will take to that new experience. Remember many many men are under the notion that fem clothing is "sissy" or other such things. They have NEVER been able to experience said styles unless it was done in a manner that in many ways is derogatory to the usual wearer's of said styles (eg, frat party pranks, and such).

I do not think the idea that if SOME men who have not tried out the styles actually did, some would take to it is anywhere near a "silly" notion.

---

I agree with this post.

I think a lot of people just take our society's norms for granted and forget that a few centuries ago, men were dressing in heels and such and as far as I know, no one was questioning their masculinity back then.

Quote:

---

If I could post post male pics here, I would to show my outfit.

---

Can we not post male pics or were you just making a statement about your own situation?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ariamythe

I think it's partly because many men view clothing as utilitarian. They wear clothes to cover themselves, to keep warm, to stop sparks from the welding torch hitting their skin, etc. I know that's long been how I view my men's clothes. Clothes for many men are meant to fade into the background, not stand out -- hence the preference for dark, neutral, and cool colors (blues, blacks, greys, khakis).

Take a look at the younger men's section of a department store, though, and you'll see a lot more brighter colors, textured fabrics, styled looks -- in other words, clothes meant to draw attention. That's because younger men are courting, and so they need to "look good".

Women's clothes, on the other hand, always seem to be in part about being on display. Even utilitarian clothing like workout clothes in the women's section usually have points of bright color -- gray workout pants with bright pink piping, etc. Not surprisingly, women are more often judged by the way they dress then men are ["OMG! Hillary's wearing a pantsuit!"].

---

I agree with this as well in regards to where we are as a society now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DonniDarkness

Finding a balance for people is what the threads that you are complaining about, are about.

---

I agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamie001

In the case of men wearing women's clothing, there are a lot of negative comments and social implications. In the case of women wearing men's clothing, there are not so many negative comments or social implications, and in fact, there is a lot of encouragement and reference to articles in women's magazines on how to incorporate men's clothing/accessories to appear more masculine.

---

I love your google idea and it really shows the double standard that is going on.

Hi,

As a Scottish woman what i have seen is very different in dress attire , the men have some wonderfull clothes, look very smart & very stand out . & quite frankly they do have some nice clothes they can choose to wear apart form our highland bands . so dont put down men in what ...they ... can wear,

& some of you do dress quite lovely . it would be nice to know what other women think , how they see this in terms of who are we dressing for to show others or we just like dressing in something nice & looks nice on us,

With my Scottish background ill be looking at makeing one or two outfits up as a member of our Scottish soc, i think it would be approprate & now i have our colour's & our Coat of Arms ill be able to do this, it's taken me over 50 years to finiliy get our information .

...noeleena...

"normal" guys are bored with men's "fashion" too. So bored they don't even care; its like it doesn't even exist. But I have no idea what you could do to mens fashion to get normal guys (or CDs) to care. but it bores everybody.

But as many have said, (for me at least) "having more styles/fabrics" is just an excuse. As a guy I don't care about guy clothes. I never wish I had a satin dress shirt. But the girl part of me looks at the way a dress flows on a girls figure or how soft a top feels and that I want/care about. Its not about the clothes. Its about a connection with the female desire to feel pretty. (I don't even want to think about the philosophical implications of that statement right now.)

I agree that the majority of males are quite content to be and present as just that. All the men I know personally see themselves as male and as one put it to me a few weeks ago; "Why whould I want to dress as a woman? I'm a man." Societal pressure and fear of persecution does play a small part but it is VERY small. The overwhelming majority of men just don't want to dress in a skirt, end of story.

However, I also agree that mens clothing choice is severly limited. Putting aside styling it's all a variation on a theme. Think about it. Jeans/shorts and a t-shirt, slacks a shirt, suit and tie, shoes or trainers. It's all the same, just slightly different.

Womens clothing on the other has has far more variety. Skirt or trousers, blouse, t-shirt or vest top, tights, stockings or bare legs. Dresses in a huge variety of styles. High heels or flats. There's even more variety in underwear. Men can have boxers or y-fronts/pants; whereas women can have knickers or thongs or french panties, push up bras or support bras or even a single piece combination. Even tights have a large variety of colours, styles and patterns.

I see myself as male because that's what sex I was born. I do wish I had been born female and to that end I dress in female clothing a fair amount. However, whether I'm presenting as male or female I don't really give a crap about fashion. If it's comfortable and looks good on me I don't care if it's trendy or not. I don't mix and match though, aside from my toe nails which are always painted it has to be either female or male, not a combination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Megan72

I guess I may be a little strange on this topic as I really kind of like men's fashion. It's not the same as woman's fashion but there are ways to spruce it up. I tend to wear a lot of French cuffs, since they are coming back, I love to accessorize them with cufflinks and ties etc. Just like crossdressing and wanting to look good as a woman when I go out, I also like to look my best whenever I venture out of the house in man mode. I don't really like the term drab because really it's not.

---

Not strange at all. My en homme mode is pretty casual, although I do like dressing-up-dressing-up in guy mode almost as much as I like going en femme. I would almost say my "everyday" is non-gendered and that I "dress the role" when I do dress up. If that makes any sense.:strugglin

Look, this stuff about men's clothing being boring, doesn't feel nice, etc is simply a manifestation of needing to create an excuse to wear girl stuff. Pick up mens fashion magazines, start with GQ, and you'll find plenty of great clothes for men. And yes, nice fabrics too. Want fancy colors? Go to racing automobile and motorcycle shops, websites, and buy the fancy bright colored outfits that the motor companies sell to promote their products. I'd hardly call Ferrari red or yellow bland colors. And I have an absolutely terrific Sunoco 260 action bright blue and yellow jacket from the seventies. Look and ye shall find. But like GG's go through, you're not just going to walk into one store and immediately find what you're looking for; I've known women who've had to search for years for that perfect pair of shoes or a top to match the rest of her outfit.
Great fashion is a lot of work. So if you really want to live it like a girl, they get used to all the trouble they go through as well! Living life 'like a woman' isn't as easy as you think it is.

good luck with changing the world...

i don't see anyone here saying there is something wrong with dressing...cd'ing or fetish dressing... just accept that what you are doing is viewed the way it is...dont be defensive about, dont make up stuff about what others guys might want to make yourself feel like more the other guys..no doubt there are some guys out there that might like a blouse, so what...

if you choose to fight for the right of other men to feel good about wearing feminine clothes then go for it... but trying to convince a huge swath of men that there are better clothing choices outside their normal clothes achieves what exactly??

also for some people, if what you are wearing now was socially acceptable, you'd wear something else anyway..

and saying "you can't prove it" doesn't add anything.... according to David Hume, technically you can't prove anything anyway...

As the heading on this thread goes, " dudes are totally cool with being dudes...get used to it", well I can, but can they get used to our tastes? Unfortunately they can not...so we need to get used to that! I am not trying to change the world to be like me, just change the world to be more accepting of anyone who may be different. There is a cultural cliff to climb here and it has few hand or toe holds available. Yet, take hope, I have seen many things change in my life time, who knows what tomorrow holds in store. We may distain the comic CD routine as occasionally seen in some TV programs, but it is still trail blazing a path for others to follow.

When others comment on how women are adopting male qualities, what do you expect when we live in a culture that still doesn't fully regard their women properly, and their qualities. In a male dominant society most want to be in the dominant arena, if a society was unisexual in dominance... then logic says that people would drift to that ground!