Dose of Reality

I really don't get it. I have a lot of friends and aquaintences and most of them tell me I'm semi-passable which is great. I don't mind being 'read' upon close observation or if I have to talk to you. However, it would be nice if I passed while, lets say, walking past you in the supermarket or the mall, which I thought I did because people usually don't give me a secong look. Apparently, I don't pass AT ALL. Depressing! Today was the second time in two weeks that people in the car next to me at stop lights were looking directly at me and laughing. Each time there were 3 or 4 people in the other car looking and laughing. I guess all those friends who said I pass or said wow, you look good, were just being nice. In reality, I stick out like a sore freakin thumb. "Man in a dress" might as well be written on my forehead. It's certainly not going to stop me from going out. In fact. now that I know I don't pass at all, it frees me up to wear all the things I like that I KNOW I don't pass in. I just found it hard to believe that, from a car over, through 2 panes of glass, you can tell I'm a man but you know when they know. Just sucks.

This is why I hate the passing threads Aalynn. It lures one in to a false sense of security. Out in the real world is the true litmus test. A quick glance is just that, most people are in their own world and won't notice or care. Don't let it stop you from going out and enjoying yourself.:)

These things happen. Has happened a few times to me (I'm 6'4" in 3" heels...I know people see me)...been called a "freak" from someone who was about 2 ft. away. It's a bruise to the ego...everyone here has kind words for just about everyone...and it's nice to hear. However the real world is full of all kinds. I'm sure you've had your good moments too. As humans we aways seem to remember the bad rather than the good. I understand your hurting and I wish you well. So enjoy your new outlook...wear what you want and be who you want to be.

Don't feel bad, I also had one of those experiences recently. I decided I was going to go to a Walmart in another town not to far from where I live. I have read many threads suggesting not to go to Walmart but hey, people don't pay attention when they are driving a car, why would they pay attention to me in a store. I was wrong! This was my second time out, and when I walked into that store I seemed like I got read like a book. I kept my composure and got what I needed, checked out and left. I felt very disappointed but I can say, it was a big step for me. I have not been out since and that was a couple of weeks ago.

In your avatar you look very passable. Just a question do you do your own makeup? Sometimes that is the giveaway. If not why not try a professional makeover and then learn from it. I have been doing this for quite a few years and was fairly comfortable with my look. But I did change my look and lo and behold I now have more confidence and I think I do pass better than before. You shouldn't have been read while in your car from the looks of your avatar.

You never know exactly what those people in the other car were looking and laughing at. It might have been a man in a dress or it might just as well have been a hundred other things. If they were teens their natural state is one of giggling!

Let's assume the worst, that you were "made." In that case, you provided a few moments' entertainment for some people desperately in need of intellectual stimulation. Nothing more will come of it.

If you observe GGs who are driving you'll note that they do not look around at stoplights, instead keeping their head pointed in the direction of travel. They've learned as young teens that if they look at someone it might be considered a come-on so they develop the habit of not looking around. I try to emulate them and by doing so I am no longer bothered by what people in surrounding cars might see or say.

Remember the words of Eleanor Roosevelt: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

IMHO anyone who already knows will never able to make a reliable judgement on whether you pass, I don't think they're just being nice by telling you that you are passable, they're just incapable of making the judgement. I don't know, maybe they are simply looking for female traits in you, and ignoring the male traits which they already knew about. Anyway, you all are a lot braver than I am...

For me its when some one gets with in five feet of me, that is when I get nervous. Most of the time nothing happens or they can't seam to figure me out and stare with a some what confused look as they pass. When I do get "read" I usually hear them mutter something under their breath after they pass. I've heard "freak", "WTF", "fag", or "that's a guy?!", mostly from people around my age. It doesn't bother me too much, but it makes me feel uncomfortable for a few minutes. Pretty much why I don't go out much if at all, I always get that second look and can't do too much about my man hands or jaw line...

This idea of "Passing" is incredibly complex. First of all, our reading of others is biased by the fact that we KNOW we are dressed! We don't have a good perspective on what others see because all we can possibly assume is that we've been clocked and are about to be raked over the coals. Clearly, that isn't always going to be the case.

Secondly, our static picture may be a start, but passing completely requires all manner of subtle actions including voice, mannerisms, hiding the male cues successfully, using the proper language, responding to others as a GG would, deportment, and fashion sense. Then there is the intangible of "attitude"!

There are probably a dozen people actively on this forum who can truly pass. The rest of us have a certain percentage of the time that our illusion works. Let's face it...when Kimberly says she gets clocked, we'd better all be prepared for it and let it go when it happens!

Just my 2 cents :)

It really is quite an unpleasant experience when reality smacks you in the face and pops your warm and fuzzy bubble. It has happened to all of us in one form or another and it sucks, but is often for the best in the long term.

This may not be a popular opinion, but the vast majority of cross dressers do not pass upon even casual inspection. There are so many gender clues that in combination give it away. Sometimes for a specific moment, a certain visual angle or the way light hits a face highlights masculine features that the most skillfully applied makeup cannot disguise. Most of the time it does not happen, but the wrong set of conditions acts as a spotlight. Some people are more aware or have a better eye at detecting trans people (i.e., their transdar is very good). Unfortunately, I see threads here where someone is told they totally pass based on one or a few pictures, and I sometimes wonder if we are looking at the same pictures. Sorry, if that seems harsh or critical, but it is my reality. As already mentioned, you cannot fully trust the opinion others who know. Even an ugly baby get treated like they are one of the cutest creatures on the planet. Who has the heart to tell the parents otherwise?

Some say passing is overrated. It may be true for some, but for others it is not overrated and quite important. What really matters is how one deals with the reality of their passing level. Aalynn said not passing is not going to stop her from going out. Yay!

BTW, there is no such thing as 90% or 95% passing. Either you completely pass or you don't pass. What I think is being said is how often you get read which is different from how much you pass.

If you are going to be an out and about girl,then you have to have a thick skin. Absolutely essential for all of us. So..I will ask the big question...What harm has actually come to anyone on this forum from being "read"? And remember,in this day and age,no one knows what is in your panties unless you tell them. Go out,be safe,and enjoy your freedom to be yourself! And jump right in an elevator of teenage girls and you will learn they they won't bite....

I learned long ago don't look in the car next to you.
I have been read many times but I don't react to any words they may utter.

I recently had my first real outing. Getting clocked was a huge worry at first, but I realized I was not going out for "them". I was going out for me, to embrace and celebrate who I am. Some knew, some did not. I know there are those who had derogatory comment that they shared with their companions. The only one I heard was "that's what you get for wearing those shoes" referring to me tripping over someones foot while wearing 5 1/2" heels. I'm not entirely sure the one who commented wasn't the one I tripped over and I'm pretty sure that if it was....they did it on purpose. I stumbled slightly and continued walking through the crowd. The comment bothered me for about half a second, then I just let it roll of. I was there for me, not anyone else. I was there to have fun and that's what I did.

You all are AWESOME!! Thank you all sooo much for these replies. I started tearing up. I feel much much better now. It sure is nice to have this forum here.

Heck, I know there's no way I would pass. Ev-err. I used to be a powerlifter and still have big, no-doubt-a-man shoulders and arms. That said, in my mind I'm cute and petite. I I stay indoors and out of the public eye, and me and the wife just make this work. Good luck, hon.

Yes, coming here and posting pictures will not reflect reality, because no one is going to tell you the negatives. Friends won't, either. They want you to feel good. And then of course, there's the pink fog.
In the automotive world, car nuts will often refer to paint jobs as 10 foot, 20 foot etc., to say that the paint looks good from that distance, but looks lousy if any closer. So basically, about 98% of us are 50 foot or more crossdressers. 1% will pass at 30 feet. Another 1% will pass at 20 feet or less. But the rest of us will have to be at least 50 feet away (me, about a mile away), and should we decide to move any part of our body, make that 100 yards.
HOWEVER.....remember, GG's don't look as good as they want to, either. Nearly all of them spend a bunch of time in front of a mirror before they leave the house, and all they see are the parts they don't like, AND THEY ALL HAVE AT LEAST SOMETHING THEY CAN'T STAND but have to live with.
So now that I've told you all how rotten you probably look, try remembering this: Be nice to the women you know. They have it harder, they HAVE to try to look beautiful, it's been hammered into their brains since they were 2 years old, while we can always give up for a while, put on a flannel shirt and jeans, and go out anywhere and feel fine about it. They can't. And that's something I certainly do not envy about being female.
So compliment the GG's whenever you can. Don't go overboard. Just say something nice. Make her day. Because she's not trying to pass as something she's not, she's trying to look good as what she really is, and that's a whole lot harder because she compares herself to the airbrushed people on TV and periodicals.

Melissa said it best, very, very, very few of us will ever completely pass. I've met some of us in person (no names need to be mentioned ;) who are very good at passing and easily get past the blend in, first look glance. But these are people who put in a lot more effort than most of us have time for, and even they have trouble with the second, more challenging look. But you tried, aalyn, and the effort needs to be applauded. Don't get discouraged if this is what you want to do- just this week I went outfit shopping for an event where I will semi-dress (no bra, forms, makeup) and was welcomed with open arms by the people who work at the shop, and the other customers didn't blink an eye (except for the GG who thought she was looking at a mirror and saw me instead! But even thenm she was more than ok with me in a skirt and blouse.) :)

I started to send a few PMs to several of the posters in this thread; then I decided a single post to all of you would make more sense. There is *so* much excellent, sensible advice here. Thanks to you all! Hugs - Diane

Aalynn,
Post a picture of yourself and I will give my candid opinion.
I will not be cruel but I may not say you look good if you don't make the cut.
Others have their own opinions,and I have mine.
It may be your posture, the way you walk or even the clothes you wear may stand out. I like your avatar it looks great to me.
Maybe you are being over critical and even looking around trying to make eye contact all the time.
If you do that........ Smile at the perpetrators, all the time.

I dont care what other peaple think, sometimes I get read, most of the time I dont,. at least I am able to present as a woman in public, and that is all that matters.

Hi Aalynn, I feel for you as I only recently started going out. I have been extremely lucky to have a couple of GG who come out with me. I was so nervous the first time they took me out, and thought everyone was looking at me. I am over 6' 2 in heels so I kind of stand out. We walked past a group of guys who said as we passed "wow that chick is as tall as a guy", I was over the moon, he thought I was a woman, until my friend called out to him " that's because she is!" I nearly died. Why did she do it? Because she said I was so nervous about not being " read" that I stood out like a sore thumb! It actually helped me with my nervousness, as she said I "fit in" a lot more when I am relaxed. Maybe it's a state of mind that's important as well.

Hi,

Can i tell you something it take's a lot of guts to be a female /woman i am one so i should know & do know only to b..... y well. . You know what hurts the most.what gets to me yes its hard not haveing my ...womb....not haveing what i need to have and carry ...my ... child, with that comes hard on the heels is i dont look like a female or woman , soto pass or blend in is a non event iv done the clothes makeup & wigs made no difference so given up on wigs & makeup.

Funny as it is my point is im not trying to be other than who i am so no props if you like so what you see is what every one see's every day .

Im just one of those females who's a woman, just not, dare i say it it's true one weird woman well thats what i see, others who know me say very different,

This as i know is why i had to go through some tough detail to help when i needed it so as you can see its not allways ...a ...well your female, does not make it any easer, as i know full well when im working with other women with issues,

Some times we need & i relie very heaverly on my advantages other wise id have nothing, be nothing , & i mean Verstorbene , Kein Labens , kaput
= no life .Iv had to be very strong as a woman because of my disadvantages,

Lieben Sie jenen surports diese Frau
Im so glad i have a lot of women around me so im surounded by a lot of love,=

...noeleena...

Mmm, lets see... seen it here and many times in the real world, people just are not honest, it's like they just want to make you feel better about yourself and give you false security. It actually causes more destruction to the person when they get told that they pass, then go out thinking they will, and then get humiliated in the real word. Please ppl, if you don't think that somebody will pass, either be quiet or tell them honestly. .. I would rather like to be told I don't pass at all, than go out thinking I do and get humiliated.

There is no reason to feel down.
Human senses are very good at discerning M or F.
The male skeleton has larger bones with different proportions , especially the shoulder to hip ratio, pelvis height, torso length etc.

My partial solution is to widen my hips but as 6'2" in heels, regardless of appearance, I am much taller than the average woman in heels and the human mind will strike on this difference in a snap.

Not to mention my giant hands " My what huge hands you have Grandma"

Things are changing , not perfect but much better than 20 years ago - in another 20 perhaps we can walk unharassed with dignity.

Passing in here in a photo is not really a good way to find out if you pass, even a fat old guy like me can get a photo to look pretty good at times, but the real world gets a lot more to look at to read you.

Take a breath. First, All they could possibly see was your face and shoulders, so That is a small part of your "look". The rest of you - your hips, legs, your clothing choices, could ring as completely female, so that when you walk around, people would not notice at all. I have caught myself scowling, and it transforms me into a man in a second. If your mouth turns naturally to a scowl, and you hunch over, then you will be read in a split second. Women rarely scowl, and most men dont walk around with a big smile on their face.
Your hair looks very natural. Honestly, there are some very unattractive women out there in the world, and they don't get read as men. They smile, they dont relax into a scowl, and they dont hide from the world. I bet you just were relaxing into a bit of male posturing without thinking about it. Own it, girl. Go out for a nice walk at dusk, get your confidence back. MK

Yes passing is something I would love to do too. I know that there is no way that I can. This one of the reasons I wear Lolita clothes because it presents a very feminine image, some would say “Sissy”, which is a word I cannot abide.
I know that if I wore everyday female clothes I would not pass, but I really wish I could. I really feel sorry that you got hurt like that. Most people just do not understand gender variant people so they think it is a big joke.
I have never had the courage to go out of my house; you are inspiration just by being who you are.

When you first get out there it will seem like anybody that is laughing about something is laughing at you. Are you sure you weren't picking your nose at the time the cars were beside you?lol. Get back on your horse again and keep doing your thing.

I wouldn't take it too hard Hon. The real reality of it is that since the economy is so bad, many people have nothing better to do than make life miserable for other people. They don't pay your salary in any case, right?:battingeyelashes::)

I assume that I don't pass at all. I try, but I still want to keep reality firmly in sight. Therefore when I get a compliment or I'm acknowledged as a lady, I'm thrilled half to death.

Just do the best you can with what you have and try to keep improving. Don't worry about passing so much as just going out and not having the locals chase you with pitchforks and torches. I don't think I have ever noticed what people in other cars are doing so I cannot say if anyone in another car has clocked me. I have gone into stores and the only thing ever said to me by others was " excuse me" or something like that. Maybe I do not pass but I get by and no one has given me any cause to avoid dressing in public yet. I have the same right to do so as any other woman out there.

Dose of Reality?

Neither you nor anyone else here can READ MINDS Aalynn. Doesn't matter how many times and how many people claim it. Unless they held up a sign saying "Yes we are laughing at you" while pointing at you.

Even if they were laughing at you... Apparently you HAVE passed many people many times dressed en femme and "passed"? Certainly you can't expect to fool all the people all the time?

Your friends? Most friends will tell you what they think you want to hear.

If you just keep your eyes pointed straight ahead while stopped at lights, [like most people do?] I think your problem will go away.

I've got a feeling that both cars probably contained teens which really shouldn't count and that it won't stop you from going out, so good for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aalynn88

I just found it hard to believe that, from a car over, through 2 panes of glass, you can tell I'm a man but you know when they know. Just sucks.

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Oh my gosh, I feel so bad for you right now. I know just how it feels because I have had a similar situation happen to me. It feels like I pass often as I just don't feel like people look at me much at all, and so it kinda gives a false sense of security, but I too had a "traffic light incident" once and it really dented my confidence pretty bad for a day or two. I am so glad that it's not going to stop you going out. I saw it as just "another page in the book of experience!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarinaKirax

Take a breath. First, All they could possibly see was your face and shoulders, so That is a small part of your "look". The rest of you - your hips, legs, your clothing choices, could ring as completely female, so that when you walk around, people would not notice at all. I have caught myself scowling, and it transforms me into a man in a second. If your mouth turns naturally to a scowl, and you hunch over, then you will be read in a split second. Women rarely scowl, and most men dont walk around with a big smile on their face.
Your hair looks very natural. Honestly, there are some very unattractive women out there in the world, and they don't get read as men. They smile, they dont relax into a scowl, and they dont hide from the world. I bet you just were relaxing into a bit of male posturing without thinking about it. Own it, girl. Go out for a nice walk at dusk, get your confidence back. MK

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Absolutely! That was my first thought: when people pass you while walking they see the whole presentation and that is what they use to identify you; when you are seen in a car they see your shoulders and head so they don't get as much information to process to identify you.

"just found it hard to believe that, from a car over, through 2 panes of glass, you can tell I'm a man but you know when they know. Just sucks".

Hi,

I don't "get it" either. Were the people laughing young men? My experience has been that very few people even look at people in other cars, unless one is doing something to attract attention or is really "over the top" in their appearance.

It is good advice to not look at people in the cars around you. In any case, their laughing at you won't actually hurt you. Do take stock of how you were presenting yourself and try to determine what might have caused these people to react as they did.

What mystifies me is why some people think it's ok to look straight in your eye and laugh. Who raised these bums anyway?

I once had a guy at a fast food window laugh right in my face. It didn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, it occurred to me that I must be a very kind and generous person. After all, here's a guy who probably gets looked down upon by a lot of people. (Not by me. All work is honorable.) and here I am giving him the opportunity to feel superior to someone.

Aalynn,

Yes, it's disturbing and deflating when something like this happens -- but these Yahoos might have had the same reaction toward Bea Arthur or Janet Reno. Look at it this way: it's their problem, not yours. Do follow MK's advice-- it's confidence and your own self-esteem/self-acceptance that do the trick!

I'm out and about at least once a week, sometimes for several days at a time. I know I'm read -- and you know something? When people realize who I am -- and see this nice, pleasant, smiling person who seems very comfortable with him -- oops, I mean her -- self, THEY become more pleasant and comfortable! (Especially, I think, women.) As my signature says, I'm a big fan of Lacey Leigh and her book, The Emancipated Crossdresser. Let me quote two sentences from her chapter on "Passing": "A funny thing happens when you no longer care if you get clocked -- it doesn't happen as often." (Her emphasis.) And: "When others recognize you as a man in a dress, and they still treat you with repect and courtesy, it means one thing: they pass!" (Again, her emphasis.)

One more point about this. I dress conservatvely, and try to wear what other women my age (well, maybe 10 years younger...) would be wearing under similar circumstances. Fishnets, miniskirts and bright red lipstick are definitely out for this lady. In other words, I try to blend in with, and be part of, the scene, and I find it so gratifying when I do.

... with help and or study of make up,proper wig selection, clothing styles to complement body type, selection of the proper colors for skin tones, dressing techniques and accessory strategies etc...


...any man can look extraordinarily feminine...and feel beautiful ... ever seen a supermodel sans make up? The look like my brother- LOL.
it's easier to enhance what one has than worry about what we don't.

Study technique and form. For example selecting the right color patterns and style when dressing will markedly dampen height, shoulder width etc.c etc.

My challenges are to dampen height and increase apparent hip width - I don't wear the 1 piece color dresses anymore, layered colors dampen height better.

Based on your Avatar pic I really don't understand how someone could identify you as a man in drag when you were seated in a vehicle. My feeling is that most of us get 'clocked' because there are very few women who are six feet tall, wear a size 42 suit coat, and have 15-16" biceps, and my mantra has always been "Be Thin, Be Thin, and Be Thin." However, that shouldn't have been a factor in traffic. Were you wearing a muscle shirt, girl? :-)

As other posters have noted, sometimes mannerisms give us away more surely than appearances. Women sit more erect in the driver's seat, their heads and necks are straight (just like they don't walk with their heads and shoulders thrust forward and their necks bowed), they smoke cigarettes differently, the talk on cell phones differently, they wear different sorts of glasses frames, they hold their hands on the steering wheel slightly differently than men. They even flip the bird differently when they get cut off by another driver, trust me on that one, I've watched my ex-wives do it many times.

I guess I am lucky, I live in an area where people are more respectful. I rarely go out with any makeup on at all and yet I get no comments. Even in the local Walmart. People just go about their activities without saying anything at all, so I cant say I have ever been "clocked." There are some kids and even teens that who might point but that is the last of it.

As Claire points out, fromThe Emancipated Crossdresser.

Quote:

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Let me quote two sentences from her chapter on "Passing": "A funny thing happens when you no longer care if you get clocked -- it doesn't happen as often." (Her emphasis.) And: "When others recognize you as a man in a dress, and they still treat you with respect and courtesy, it means one thing: they pass!"

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The key seems to be to relax and just be yourself, walk with confidence and the rest takes care of itself

Aalynn, I can relate. My first full day out in the world dressed up, I was OMG'd by teenage girls, shouted at rudely by two guys in a truck, stopped by a cop for nervous driving, laughed at , at a drive thru, tooted at a few times, which was fine with me! The most embarrassing thing, was when i parked, and strutted around town, then returned to my car. The man parked next to me had a dead battery, asked me for a jump start. and told his kids not to look! I did not look as good as you do. i had a used too small wig, too short a sleeveless dress, huge hands, jutting man jaw. It was worth the experience though!

Alice - that is really, really rough first day out!

When someone tells me I pass well or anything like that I know it is BS. If they spent some time in my shoes they would know better.

When they look at you an Laugh ,,, Just do what I do ,,,Just smile back an Wave ,,
Hell I love to Laugh an I will Laugh right along with them ,,, :D


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The passing thread of yours is B.S. as far as I'm concerned. In your Avatar and profile picture you are extremely passable. It all how you carry yourself and deportment. The deal with the car pulling up next to you can be easily explained liked has happened to be sometimes. Your profile side view that they see from a next door car may suck of you when your face on view looks much more believable. I have a prominernt eagle beak nose but try to face people amd get photos face on and no profile shots. Not to sweat it, Confiedence!, Sometimes it takes years and lots of practice

Hi Aalynn, Don't feel bad I've seen a lot of GG that don't pass either.

Passing is completely relative to the situation. I generally pass fairly well, but know I'm not 100 % In recent times, I have been in a bar and a guy asked me if I was a man. He wasn't sure, but when my voice gave me away , he figured it out. Just tonight, I had to walk the gauntlet betweeen a group of contractors standing along the sidewalk outside my hotel. I heard them chuckle after i passed. It's nice to know I pass cassually, but yes, I do get made, I'm a bit conscious about it, but it doesn't hinder me much.