Embarrassed by representations of TG people

An earlier post about a peeping Tom posing as a CD to video women reminded me of how many times I've been embarrassed by real life or fictional representations of transgendered people over the years. You know, those grainy videos of Milton Berle, John Cleese and Eric Idle 'drag racing', corporal Klinger, etc., etc. (about the only positive TG person I remember was Cpt. Whatever's girlfriend from Hill Street Blues.

It seems that whether real or fictional, my first reaction was "someone may recognize me in them" and the other fear was that 'I'd end up like them'.

Oddly enough, to some extent, the latter proved true...but now I'm ok with it.

So, for you folks, has the representation of transgendered ever bothered you by the unflattering portrayals or by the fear that it revealed something about you...or some other way?

Yes, it seems it's just fine to make fun of crossdresser or transgendered people still. Don't try to do the same with black people, Latinos, native Americans, the handicapped, etc. or you'll be in serious trouble.

I hate to see the crossdressers on the Jerry Springer show if my wife is watching, especially if I'm sitting there in my forms, blouse and skirt. It's embarrassing and I keep waiting for her to comment.

Yes Linda, Though my wife doesn't know I dress, whenever a cd is on TV she has a nasty comment about them. Makes me uncomfortable.......

Embarrassed by representations of TG people? Chalk it all up to a lack of knowledge that the general public has about us. It is the responsibility of each and every one of us to work hard at changing that perception.

It's not so much a need to thrust an explanation on them. Half the battle can be won just by being nice when we do interact with the public. Basic good manners and a smile will leave them thinking there goes a nice person. Sooner or later when we crop up in a conversation they'll be more likely to defend us if others are being derogatory.

Yes, every time I see something like that, it going to make it harder for us as a group, for every step we make forward, they take us two back. We can't give up we all need to keep putting our self out there to show that most cross-dresser are not like that.

I don't watch sitcoms too much. I certainly do not watch Jerry Springer type shows. Once in awhile I encounter a show that does have a transgendered person portrayed. I usually cannot see why the character was worked into the plot. It almost seems like pandering to a segment of society for an unknown reason. Being in a DADT marriage, it does bother me to see any cross dresser in a show because it makes my wife uncomfortable. If my wife is at home in the morning while I'm watching the Today Show, I don't think she realizes I'm taking in the pretty dresses the female hosts are wearing. When I'm out with my wife and we encounter a poorly dressed cross dresser with bad makeup that gives me an unsettling feeling because I am wondering what my wife thinks. My wife has never seen me en femme.

And, I totally agree with Linda that the public would not stand for ridicule for any protected minority.

Kim, I have a basic expectation that portrayals on TV will be negative or a joke. I am bothered that when crimes occur, and a cross dresser is involved, that connection is always front and center. So in the eyes of the normals, cross dresser = pervert rather than that pervert happens to have been cross dressed. The news always likes salaciousness if they can offer it up.

As for it revealing something about me.... no. I am not at all related to criminals and perverts. I do not see my circumstance as remotely similar.

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Originally Posted by Megan Thomas

It's not so much a need to thrust an explanation on them. Half the battle can be won just by being nice when we do interact with the public. Basic good manners and a smile will leave them thinking there goes a nice person. Sooner or later when we crop up in a conversation they'll be more likely to defend us if others are being derogatory.

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Exactly. Just as our perception of others is swayed by their actions, so too is their perception of us also determined by ours.
I was once walking down the street and happened to pass by a man walking with his daughter. I said "Hello." as I went by. The little girl said "Hi." back to me. The father looked down and scolded the child saying "Don't talk to that freak! Somebody should put a gun to her head and pull the trigger!"
But I heard the daughter say. "But why? She seems like such a nice person."

Perception. The child did not perceptive me as a threat and responded in an appropriate manner to my greeting.
The father, being naturally protective of his offspring and drawing upon incorrect data, perceived me as a threat to the stability of the world around him and responded in a negative manner. Had his knowledge of TG's been correct he wouldn't have viewed me as a threat.

Great thread Kim! I don't like the portrayal of us or negative media stories either. I think we have to get used to the fact we have no real control over this or what other people do/say. The LGBT community and TG spinoff groups are actively trying to change public perception. Unfortunately not enough CD/TG/TS people want to be associated with those groups.

As long as none of them sign my pay check, I could care less what people think. I'm all for TG rights but realized long ago that getting solidarity is damn near impossible. Either someone is afraid of being exposed or on the way marching to the courthouse most bail at the last minute. It's really up to us individually for the most part.:)

I get concerned about the skewed publicity we get....
Portrayed as some mindless freak or sexual predator of some kind.

This is the main reason, perhaps the only reason why I will never come out to my family or anyone else.
Call me a coward if you want to, that’s O.K. with me.

I have said this before. The TG community gets pigeon holed for entertainment purposes. Yo won't sell a news story that says crossdresser saves puppy. I can promise you that if you did save a puppy the story would ignore the cross dressing part.

In the "real" world we are only seen as Clowns (the Milton Beryls, John Cleeses, Robin Williams (and later Nathan Lane with Robin Williams) the Tootsies. The over the top extreme comedic persons. There is hope though because 50 years ago other minorities were portrayed that way also.

Or we are perverts (ie the peeping Tom or the people everyone worries about in the women's room). That makes the news. But there is hope, several minorities were portrayed as sexual monsters before too.

Or we are criminals and especially murderers. Psycho, Silence of the Lambs. But don't worry, other minorities were portrayed that way in the past also (some still are).

Or we are all looking for SRS. Or we are all unbalanced.

Think for a moment. Name 5 TG people who have been shown in a positive light. It doesn't get noted or when it does it is buried (there are TG people in the government upper administrations). Of course there was Marv Albert...Oh he was listed in the pervert section.

Most TGs can fade away, disappear, hide. Most do. Look at the posts here. The number of people who won't tell anyone. Can't blame them,why would you want to be associated with Clowns, Psychopaths and Degenerates? Oh My. We know better. We have members in the armed forces, public safety, management, education, medicine. They can fix a car or fix a pipe. They can build a rocket ship. They can invent a new device to save lives or, find a cure for cancer, or they can bring world peace. But we don't advertize that. It doesn't catch attention. We need to do things that bring POSITIVE attention. And as long as we are only seen in glitter and thongs in the Pride parade, it ain't gonna happen

That's why I always TELL,,,,Tell,,, If anyone asks I TELL ,,, Because for the simple fact they already know me ,, They know what I am about an how I live an what kind of person I am already ,, So then they will THINK ,,,, Hummmmm ,,, If he is like that an no one knew ,,, I wonder how many other people are like that ? An that way people don't think of us in a bad Light . I am the same person ,, Just correcting a little Malfunction from birth it will be all over soon an then we can get on with it ,,, All of it ,,lol,,,

Stand Back people ,,,, Let a Fat Girl through ,,,, STAND BACK !! LOL,,,,,

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Originally Posted by suzy1

This is the main reason, perhaps the only reason why I will never come out to my family or anyone else.
Call me a coward if you want to, that’s O.K. with me.

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Suzy, You are far from a coward. You continue to do what you feel is right for you and yours. Nobody has the right to judge you or anyone else for doing that.
Just as I don't have the right to judge those who persecute me nor do they have the right to be judged and persecuted by me. Wouldn't the world be so much better if we all just stopped judging and persecuting each other?

Well said Lorileah. Aside from all that has been said, I'm reminded of a few other instances where publicity comes to include the fact that someone was a crossdresser involved in a crime or subject to public ridicule. There was once a couple in our town where the husband would be seen with scraggly long hair wearing yellow slacks. He looked like a freak and people noticed. Then there was a local CD who murdered "her" boyfriend. Then there is the pending case in Massachusetts of a TS who murdered her wife and is now in jail seeking SRS, and a judge mandated the state pay for it! What an uproar! Then there is another individual who rarely bathes and dresses poorly, and frequents local businesses. "She" once made the news by greeting a police officer at the door with a shotgun.

We can't help it with these individuals. But they sure cast a bad light on the rest of us who just want to blend in. No wonder we are negatively perceived.

Cheryl

The answer is a resounding YES! It seems as if most of the media uses every opportunity to make inaccurate, inappropriate and uninformed remarks regarding any situation where a CD, T-girl, etc. person is somehow involved.

Even the portrayals that try to be sympathetic get almost everything wrong.

But Hollywood gets everything wrong. I'm a computer expert in real life and I can safely say that no computer expert in the movies or on tv is anything like a real life computer expert. (No, we don't spend all our time hacking into the CIA. As if that we're possible.)

great comments, all! I would bet that Lori has saved lots of puppies, kitties and a few large animals too!

If the American people, and this statement applies to all nationalities, use their thought process, they should then realize of all groups, sub groups, et al, contain people of all conceivable actions good or bad. But people love to sterotype and put others in the same box, especially if that box conforms with their own preconceived notions.

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

Kim, I have a basic expectation that portrayals on TV will be negative or a joke. I am bothered that when crimes occur, and a cross dresser is involved, that connection is always front and center. So in the eyes of the normals, cross dresser = pervert rather than that pervert happens to have been cross dressed. The news always likes salaciousness if they can offer it up.

As for it revealing something about me.... no. I am not at all related to criminals and perverts. I do not see my circumstance as remotely similar.

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I agree with this. I have only ever seen TWO positive(Ish) portrayals of CD's in mainstream television. one was on the MENTALIST about a kid who is found dead behind a drag club and one of the queens helps with the investigation. She shows up to the precinct in full dress. The end of the episode is actually really good. I would recommend that one. Really emotional ending about how they are all family and stuff.

There is now a transgender in GLEE on television. That show isn't very good though. But she is a MTF TS, she wasn't a major character until this year.

but no one ever talks about normal TG people.

Who thought the movie "TransAmerica" was an accurate portrayal of what it's like for someone transitioning from male to female? I didn't. The whole movie was filled with inaccuracy. The only redeeming factor was the underlying story about a father trying to build a relationship with his estranged son.
A much better transitioning movie was given to my wife by a therapist many years ago. She was having a hard time dealing with having a transgendered husband. It was a 2006 movie entitled "NORMAL" about A Midwestern husband and father announces his plan to have a sex change operation.Director:Jane Anderson.Writers:Jane Anderson (play), Jane Anderson (teleplay)Stars:Richard Bull, Mary Seibel, Danny Goldring.

I typically don't get embarrassed at how others are portrayed even if I'm in that group but today at lunch I heard a radio station commercial that said.... "Tell us what you like...... I like banana pudding....... served on the breast of a Thai $hemale" and it thought how derogatory was that as I changed the channel.....

The public portrayal is overwhelmingly atrocious. Not just the entertainment arena, but the press.....OK, maybe they are just entertainment anymore too. They really don't care about reality. Just follow the case of the TG murdered in Cleveland, CeCe. The initial press coverage was atrociously uneducated. They used her mug shot from a previous arrest, as a male. Later corrections, after serious prodding, merely indicate the uneducated nature of society toward us right now, and I cringe.

All we can do is be ourselves and be civil as we go about our daily lives. Those that can, get involved.It won't change overnight.

Barbara

So why is anyone embarrased or shocked by bad press; smut and sensationalism sells.

The "news", be it printed or in electronic format, has not been news per se for several decades. What is foisted off on the American public tends to be the same, half dozen, stories offered as a cross of editorial comment, speculation, inuendo with a few bits of real news to hold the whole sham together. You know, the cause of the day!

Look at CNN, CBS, ABC, et al; surely there are more than six note worthy, news worthy events in the world at any given time. Surely, something new happened today so we don't have to hash and rehash the same stories day after day!

Just saying!

I get sick of hearing about ru Paul's drag race as if I should be into it. I don't watch it and I don't care for it. Besides I'm not a drag queen, sheesh

I keep turning around but I still don't see any paparazzi following me. Nope. I guess my life is just interesting enough. Boo Who. Boo Who!
Now suppose I decided to do something wrong like blow up a building.
The headlines would read "TRANSGENDERED TERRORIST TOPPLES TRI-CITY!"
Then every TG in the country would be labeled a would be terrorist and be subject to strip search on sight. That is how the behavior of one individual can have a negative effect on everybody else.
But that wouldn't happen. Not in AMERICA.
Yeah right.

Of course you realize Dawnmarie, that that statement has just been filtered by the NSA, and you are on the watch list, and most likely all of us posting here are listed as potential accomplices.....lol

I must add that I do not get embarrassed by the representations. Saddened by their lack of understanding and education, or even minimal caring. I lament society's descent, but I know that the girls here will remain transcendent.

Barbara

Barbara, Not only the NSA. But the NRA, FDA and the PTA. I'm also on the national AARP mailing list. LOL!

YES!!! I'm glad someone else feels this way. My wife watched part of one episode and I'm pretty sure it set us back a year.

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Originally Posted by Antoinette

I get sick of hearing about ru Paul's drag race as if I should be into it. I don't watch it and I don't care for it. Besides I'm not a drag queen, sheesh

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Most of the time 9 out of 10 shows on this subject are not the way we want to be portrayed . I screen all the stuff on the subject an don't just Holla hey baby come watch this !! It might not put us an you in that good of a light ? Just like Rue Paul's Drag Race ,, That is mostly Gay guys that are proformer's an they are way younger than most of us an they have a different culture all there own . An if you don't want your wife to think your a Drag Queen you might not want to watch it with her ,, You know EVERYONE thinks if you dress your a Drag Queen !! There was a documentary on the other night prime time that gave us a hand up ,, Other than that there few an far between !

"strip search on sight"

ooohhh I usually have to pay extra for that!

I've never felt embarrassed by media representations.

Every now and then on the news they will report a robbery and describe the guy who did it as "..and he was dressed like a woman." If they have video usually you can see he had on a wig that was intended to be a disguise. But it seems to me that there is an inference connecting crossdressers to those who commit crime. Maybe I am being too sensitive.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Who

I've never felt embarrassed by media representations.

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I am of the same opinion. The more the merrier out in that big bad real world. Look at the gay/lesbian coming out. Many times they were portrayed in less than flattering ways in movies, books and television. Look at the TV sitcom Will and Grace. The one gay is what the gays like to call a "Flamer" or "Flaming Gay" because of his overtly feminine gestures and mannerisms, which are typical exaggerations when used for entertainment. From my experience living in the San Francisco Bay area and visiting the predominantly, though changing, Castro area regularly, the Flaming Gays are definitely in the minority. I have no idea what the gays actually think of how they were portrayed on Will and Grace, but just by having them in a long running funny and successful television program helped the uninitiated (unlearned?) to see them in a pseudo real life situation and get more comfortable that, like it or not, they are in our midst, everywhere. In the big picture that is good for all of us helping to clarify that "unknown" area for a lot of people and at least helping them to learn how to tolerate differences in others.

I personally do not see a direct connection with the masses (not some individuals) with a male dressed as a female and doing something wrong which then reflects badly on the greater whole. The majority of people out there in the real world are not that dumb and will not, as some here state, think that one bad example ruins it for everyone else. Yes, it may affect a few, but not the majority. Just read about all the successful trips out of the house dressed as a woman by so many members here from all over the USA and world with zero negative reactions.

As for committing crimes as dressed as a woman, that has been going on forever. So, saying that a man dressed as a woman robbed the bank means nothing more than that. Yes, it is mentioned more specifically for as others have already stated the news needs something different and exciting to increase or maintain readership and viewers/listeners to the news. The news organizations are really trying to accommodate us and to be more respectful on how they report about us, using proper pronouns and some of those dreaded labels like transgender.

"So, for you folks, has the representation of transgendered ever bothered you by the unflattering portrayals or by the fear that it revealed something about you...or some other way? "

Yes the depiction of CD/TG on the 'trashy' talk shows like Springer and Richard Bey (remember him?) were poorly done. I'm talking about those episodes where a couple would sit down on stage, and the host would ask the male, "Do you know why you're here today?" before revealing that their female partner is actually a CD or TS. The intent here was obviously to depict CD/TG people as dishonest perverts and turn a buck by doing so. To shock the audience and get them to sympathize with the man who was tricked into entering into a relationship under false pretenses. I am sure Oprah would approach the topic with due sensitivity, but she is in a different league than those trashy shows.

I never really had a problem with Chris Farley playing Adam Sandler's wife in an SNL skit. It never bothered me when the dudes from Monty Python dressed up for a skit either. In both cases, the actors were presenting as women in a comedic situation, but the intent was not to make fun of TG's/CD's in so far as I can tell. Check out "The Whitest Kids You Know" from IFC for a more modern example of CDing in sketch comedy. And lets face it, Chris Farley played a mid-western housewife extremely well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYQD3R6bmU

I appreciate all the observations shared, I should point out that the source of my embarrassment was largely my fear of being outed. I cringed at any portrayal or even conversation about transgenderism. It was my problem, really.

I am in the middle on this one. There are a lot of negative stereotypes out there but there are also some great ones as well. I don't mind someone poking a little fun. When asked why I am who I am I attribute it to drinking diet soda from a plastic bottle and watching too much Monty Python.

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Originally Posted by Megan Thomas

Basic good manners and a smile will leave them thinking there goes a nice person. Sooner or later when we crop up in a conversation they'll be more likely to defend us if others are being derogatory.

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I agree with Megan. Its easy to draw stereotypes about a minority that you have had no association with other than what you see on TV or the internet. The two best ways to overcome those sterotypes is to be proud of who you are and to conduct yourself like a person that someone would want to associate with.

I have have had some wonderful experiences with folks that have never met a transgender person before. I prefer to blend in, but if noticed I don't shy away from who I am and I certainly don't worry about what the other person watched on TV last night.

You can't let it get to you, and use whatever opportunity presents itself as an educational opportunity. Most of the world isn't going to take a CD seriously right now. Maybe in 10 years they will, but we live for now. You have to take a lesson from Jackie Robinson and just grow a really thick skin, and prove you belong. Yes, it isn't fair, but who said life was? Its a battle that can be won. I dress in public every year for an event, I get teased, I just laugh it off and nobody really cares. When a Lesbian friend said "you're having too much fun with this, everyone is going to think you do this alll the time" all I said is "let them think whatever they want so long as they support me, there's worse things to be known for" and she just smiled. I suspect she knows I actually enjoy dressing but she could care less, and probably respects me more for doing what I like and/or support, regardless of the consequences.

I liked the Tim Burton movie Ed Wood. A lot of times cross dressing is portrayed as a counter culture, which I am comfortable with. When it is judged as being "perverse", I become defensive.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Think for a moment. Name 5 TG people who have been shown in a positive light. It doesn't get noted or when it does it is buried

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Well, just off hand I can think of Jan Morris, the travel writer who used to be James Morris, Chaz Bono gets pretty good press, sometimes on the front page (yes, in part due to MOM,) There was a concert pianist in NY that got a write up not too long ago, and recently in the NYT there was an article on a data search companywhose chief scientist a TS PhD in computational neuroscience.
here is an excerpt
"But Vivienne Ming, who since late in 2012 has been the chief scientist at Gild, says she doesn’t think Silicon Valley is as merit-based as people imagine. She thinks that talented people are ignored, misjudged or fall through the cracks all the time. She holds that belief in part because she has had some experience of it.

Dr. Ming was born male, christened Evan Campbell Smith. He was a good student and a great athlete — holding records at his high school in track and field in the triple jump and long jump. But he always felt a disconnect with his body. After high school, Evan experienced a full-blown identity crisis. He flopped at college, kicked around jobs, contemplated suicide, hit the proverbial bottom. But rather than getting stuck there, he bounced. At 27, he returned to school, got an undergraduate degree in cognitive neuroscience from the University of California, San Diego, and went on to receive a Ph.D. at Carnegie Mellon in psychology and computational neuroscience. During a fellowship at Stanford, he began gender transition, becoming, fully, Dr. Vivienne Ming in 2008.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/te...pagewanted=all

Mostly though, I agree with your post. It is one of the reasons I believe that crossdressing as normal in public will never be accepted. And, people shouldn't worry about it. If you want to do it, do it safely, don't make the community look stupid (e.g. shave your beard if you have one,) and stay out of trouble. There is a wide scale of acceptable dress and it can include cross dressing. Overall , the culture is getting cruder and going down hill (IMO) and anything that doesn't fit with that mindset will get jeers.

Another WKUK fan, alright! They do a good job with their CDing and aren't making fun of us. Some of them are convincing enough that I've had to stop and go, hey was that Zach Cregger or an actual woman?

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Originally Posted by Krista1985; Check out "The Whitest Kids You Know" from IFC for a more modern example of CDing in sketch comedy. And lets face it, Chris Farley played a mid-western housewife extremely well. [url

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYQD3R6bmU[/url]

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Originally Posted by stephNE

Every now and then on the news they will report a robbery and describe the guy who did it as "..and he was dressed like a woman." If they have video usually you can see he had on a wig that was intended to be a disguise. But it seems to me that there is an inference connecting crossdressers to those who commit crime. Maybe I am being too sensitive.

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I think you are being too sensitive. Dressing like a woman is intended as a disguise in this case and it has nothing to do with being a crossdresser. Now if the story was "Crossdresser robs bank", that would be different.

There are certain "bad requirements" or prerequisites that still exist before a trans character can appear in media.

This is an article that lambasts trans representations in the media, written by Calpernia Addams in 2009. In the section entitled "Narrative Film/ Television" she addresses are the four P’s of representation of the transgender community in media: prostitute, punchline, psycho, and poor thing!

Here is the link: http://www.calpernia.com/diary/favor...ypes-in-media/

excellent and very thorough article on trans depictions. Thanks, May!

There are a few people on this forum who actually KNOW that there are TGs out there doing well. My favorite is Wendy Carlos (nee Walter). But the thing is that 99.9% of the everyday population (and members here) could come up with Rene Richards, Calpernia, Chaz and....? Some will hit the UFC fighter if they are in sports and do we really want Dennis Rodman as a representative? (he got press but I believe that is all he was after).

In a way not knowing is a GOOD thing. They have dropped off the radar to live (hopefully) normal lives. That is the ultimate TS dream and often not being seen is the ultimate CD ideal too.

But I keep hoping. I see that things have gotten better (note NOT perfect) for many people who were held down before. However, I also believe that there are so many even here that prefer to NOT advance the TG "agenda". And until we get more who are willing to stand out and up (Chaz) we will be relegated to being 3rd class citizens. Mice in the dark. We allow the rats top get exposure. So we are lumped with the rats.

Anybody happen to catch SVU last night? There was actually a cross dressing character who WASN'T the killer! He was, however, a high school principal whose 'wife would kill me if she knew,' and who was worried that he'd lose his job if word got around. I think they probably just put her in there so the general audience would assume that since he dressed like a woman (convincingly, apparently) that he was the one whodunit.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

So, for you folks, has the representation of transgendered ever bothered you by the unflattering portrayals or by the fear that it revealed something about you...or some other way?

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Many depictions of TG in the media have bothered me over the years. I’ve come to realize that they WANT to show things this way, to keep any M-to-F portrayal silly and/or ridiculous, perhaps to dissuade any boy from trying on girl’s clothes. When I first started to crossdress I came across some beautiful (and inspiring) depictions of MtF, and I really had to dig to find them. A little glimpse of something true now and then was all I needed to launch my own explorations...

I reached a stage where I began to look like what I initially feared, but it was OK... :whew!:

Be ready for a CD news story today. A school kid in Michigan found a thumb drive today. It contained child porn and some other sick shit I won't mention. They made a point of saying the person the drive belonged to was a CDer.