Dining out questions

I realize some of you have no problem going out dressed and being read. However, that's not my goal. I would like to go out to a sit down restaurant with my wife dressed as Alesha and have a nice dinner without being read. I've been going out in public for almost 30 years and I feel pretty confident that I can pass 98% of the time. My only concern is if I had to speak because that would surely give it away.

My question is, have any of you gone out to a sit down restaurant with someone and enjoyed your meal without being read? If so, how did you handle the speaking/ordering part? As for the waitress asking what we want to drink, I thought I could "conveniently" be on my cell phone and let my wife order our drinks. I also thought about maybe going to the restroom just before it came time to order our food and just let my wife order for both of us. If the waitress tried to make small talk, I might be in a pickle. Other than that, I think I could pass in a dimly lit, busy, noisy restaurant. I'm thinking something like a Texas Roadhouse. Thanks!

I usually speak in a low soft voice, a bit husky but I get by.

I've thought of that Beverley but I don't think I could pull it off.

Treating myself to a nice dining experience is one of my favorite things to do dolled up. I have never had anything remotely resembling an issue. My girly voice is so so at best; I could not pass the "telephone test" to save my life, for example. However, if you look nice, and your level of confidence is that you belong there then you are without a doubt good to go independent of voice quality.

Now, I would not consider the evasive actions you're considering to show the required confidence level so do please let those go. Letting your wife do the talking is OK but better is to represent yourself. Smile a lot, demonstrate you're happy to be out having fun, respond with confidence. I'll let others with voice skills fill in the details but if you raise the pitch a bit, soften it up, keep your responses short you will be fine.

If you look at some drag queen videos on Youtube you'll see totally passable girls pretty much using their dude voices. Close your eyes and it's a dude! Open your eyes and it all works - presentation, voice and confidence.

I see that I've used the word "confidence" five times in this reply. That was not unintentional. Have fun! Hugs, Michelle

The restroom (for Americans), washroom (for Canadians), WC (for Brits) is what holds me back.

I have a small bladder and dread the thought of having to go to a women's toilet and being read... :(

I can't read minds, so even when I think I'm doing pretty well it's possible...eh probable that I've been read. Still, I make an effort to raise my voice just a bit and to speak more softly.

You've been doing this for 30 years...relax and work on your pitch if it makes you feel better. No one else will care.

Also, it's probably better to pick a quiet place...I find it harder to control my voice when I have to speak loudly?

Michelle, thank you for the encouraging words. I would like to follow your instructions so much. I guess I'm lacking in the courage department. :( I guess I just expect the worst when it comes to doing something like that. Having my wife along and having things go south would be terrible. On the other hand, part of me says just do it and be happy and enjoy the time out and don't worry if others stare or laugh. I just don't want to embarrass my wife.

I dress when I'm out of town on business and that's been a lot lately. So I go out to dinner by myself and have a very nice time. I raise my voice 1 register ( my voice is not too deep anyway). I just try to speak with confidence. If you act sheepish and speak too soft and don't engage it can give you away. If you are confidant they don't think twice, just another chick with a deep voice

I don't understand the importance of not being 'read'. Who cares? Everyone will treat you exactly the same ei. with the dignity and respect due a gg. You've gone out for 30 years without speaking? I go to restaurants a few times a week. Would I have any clue wether I've been read? I doubt it, cause people would treat me the same anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alesha_cd

My question is, have any of you gone out to a sit down restaurant with someone and enjoyed your meal without being read?

---

I don't know nor care if I was read or not. I was having dinner. If anyone has a problem with that they can look away. I have never had a server ever do anything disrespectful and they always treat me like a lady.

Quote:

---

If so, how did you handle the speaking/ordering part?

---

I say, "I'll have the-----" Or if i have a male date he will say "The lady will have the----"


You are making way too big a deal about this. Most waitstaff will break their necks to serve you because they want the tip. This past weekend there were 4 people at the table one GG, one GM and two TGs. The meal took 4 hours and the tip the waiter got was well over 25% of the tab. I think they were happy with us

I doubt any of us, (atlest those without hormones and/or surgery) pass 100%... I think as long as you're reasonable, both in appearance and deportment, everything is cool. This has been my experience so far.

I've eaten out in all kinds of restaurants and diners. With other CDs and TGs and also with a GG friend or two. My voice does not pass but I was treated as I was dressed , a lady.
After going to an IHOP on a Saturday morning, early on in my going out stage and getting out alive LOL. I'm not easily phased anymore, just no biker bars for me.

Quote:

---

I don't understand the importance of not being 'read'. Who cares?

---

I care. We all have our own desires/goals when we dress and mine has always been to pass as well as I possibly can when I'm out. If that's not your desire/goal and you don't care if others see you as a guy in a dress, then that's your choice. I'm not going to question you because of that. Yes I've been going out occasionally over the past 28+ years mainly in shopping malls and department stores. My ventures out into public have for the most part been made while avoiding verbal contact with others. That's what I'm comfortable with and if that makes some of you gasp with disbelief, then so be it. I sense a lot of "I don't give a da** what others think about me because I'm me and that's that" attitude when the topic of being "read" comes up. You're entitled to those feelings but keep in mind we're all different in what we're comfortable with and what we want to achieve when we go out.

Quote:

---

You are making way too big a deal about this.

---

I don't think I am. I'm just trying to see if anyone else has done anything like this with the objective of trying to pass while having a nice dinner date with their wife or SO.

Quote:

---

I don't know nor care if I was read or not. I was having dinner. If anyone has a problem with that they can look away.

---

Again, I do care. If someone has a problem with me being a guy dressed like a woman then it's their problem, but my objective is to pass and I'm asking others with the same objective if they have done this with their wife or SO and how they handled the ordering process. It's kind of like trying to paint a picture as realistically as you can because that's your personal goal, but if others don't like how it looks, then that's their problem. I simply want to know what techniques were used to paint that picture. I don't want to know how you feel about those who don't like your painting.

Quote:

---

I think as long as you're reasonable, both in appearance and deportment, everything is cool.

---

I totally agree and that is how I have it envisioned. I was just wondering how some of you would handle the ordering process if you didn't want to get read. It seems as if that's a bad word on here. Kind of like throwing rocks at the bee hive.

We all have different levels of comfort and different desired outcomes when we go out. Some on here dress every day as a woman while others may only get the chance or the desire to dress maybe once every other month if that. Some wear women's clothing and/or makeup daily while others don't. We all have differing circumstances and desires. Please don't dismiss them if they don't match what you believe is "the right way".

I just go up in my voice register so its kind of in between male and female.
Just speak softly and smile you will do fine.
Don't be scared there is no need to be.
If you have been going out 30 years how did you never speak to anyone?

Alesha, simply working on your voice is what's in order. You could practice by recording yourself and listening back to see where you can improve any rough spots. 15 minutes a day should do some good unless your voice is similar to Johnny Cash or Jimmy Durante. There are female voice training vids on youtube too. Good luck hun.

Just search "feminine voice" on youtube. There are dozens of video to help you with your voice.

Alesha,

There is more to consider than just the inital ordering of the meal where you and your wife may have to interact with the restuarant staff. Is there valet parking? The maître d' who greets you at the door may ask you the name the reservation is under, the host or hostess may chit chat as you are being seated, one waiter may take drink orders and another may take the meal orders. The wait staff most likely will drop by through out the meal to see if everything is ok. Heaven forbid if you have to send something back. Sometimes management will drop by to get feed back on your experience at their fine establishment. Then there is always after meal coffee and/or drinks with dessert.

If you are celebrating something special and the wait staff knows about it, you are guranteed special attention.

I go out often to resturants and do not realy have a problem. I can only recall two incidents where I was probably read. One was at a Mexican resturant late at night when I was more hungry than made up and just had to get something to eat. The other time was passing through one of the Houston airports picking up a quick byte to eat.

My experience has been that the fancier the resturant, the better the people skills the staff has. If you are a repeat customer, the wait staff will recognize you as a valuable customer and treat you as one. Sometimes I go out with a group of girls to a comedy club. The group has an open invitation the second Saturday of the month. The wait staff loves us there and often drop by to chit-chat before and after the show. They even remember our drink preferences. It is always a fun evening.

Go out and enjoy your dinner with your wife.

Why not just go out as a dude in a dress and other feminine accessories? Then you don't have to worry about being read.

Alesha, I appreciate your concerns over being read from your voice. I don't think mine passes either, and it is something I am working on. However, I've had good luck going out with my wife, as well as alone, and much to my surprise, I seem to pass mostly, even when I order, or have a conversation with a waitress. Mostly, I figure people see what they expect to see, and if you aren't self-conscious, they mostly won't notice.

We are far from passing voice or no. However as we practice make up and I improve my mannerisms. I have a bass voice. This will be a challenge for me. We have joked about learning ASL. frankly I may consider it as it would have many practical applications.

When dressed on an outing with my wife, she does all the talking. I pretend I have laryngitis.
It’s worked for 15 years.
No problem.

Hold your menu up as a barrier and talk from behind it. Lots of people do. You cannot engage in conversation so the cell phone works. Carry something you can be distracted with - a watch or piece of jewelry. Try to be selective where you sit, if possible. Your wife is going to have to intercept your server's attention. Do what is fun for you and enjoy your nights out together.

I had the same concerns when I first started going out and mingling with the public. I started off by trying to avoid small talk with others and quickly realized it was just not as liberating of an experience as it could have been if I would have just stopped worrying so much. Plus, my reluctance to be social with those around me was putting extra responsibility on my wife when we went out together. She made me realize fairly quickly that there was no good reason to be sheepish, aside from my own internal fear. Plus, socializing was absolutely necessary for me if I was ever going to start feeling like my femme side wasn't just graduating to larger and larger cages instead of breaking free of all of my self-imposed limitations. I learned that if I wanted to feel normal, I have to break out of all of those reclusive patterns I was used to with regard to my female presentation.

After several nights out and one very memorable Halloween night at the police station filling out forms due to my wife's and my car being broken into, not a lot really rattles me in terms of interacting with others. Diving into conversation with others can still be a bit unnerving on occasion, but being social with my voice softened just a bit seems to work just fine.

This would be a good test for my Amy-voice, and also something I haven't tried. I'll have to put this on the list!

- Amy

Alesha, having passed just one nite in my life, I clearly understand how different people treat u if they believe u r woman!

If this is so important to u, simply have your SO say u lost your voice cheering at a ______ game, or just got over the flu, etc. I'm wondering how that will work with the surrounding customers, tho?

Personally? I'd try my passing at a simpler venue. Like a club, bar, etc. where the back ground noise will drown out your voice to everyone further than 2' or 3' away!

I totally understand you not wanting to be read and that speaking is problem. In my own case, in the beginning my wife would "do all the talking" but after a while she said no, that she thought that "two GG girlfriends" would order separately and that it didn't seem right to her that she would be, or should be, ordering my food. Net result ... I had to start talking to the waiter/ress ... gulp! :eek: Ok, I have to admit at this point that my talking is kept the the absolute minimum and I have practiced (in my best femme voice) the phase "I'll have the same too, thanks" a hell of a lot :) LOL ... my point is, you can't get away without saying anything, but keep it short and sweet and practice a lot .... unless that is, you want something different on the menu than your wife!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alesha_cd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tgirlceleste

I don't understand the importance of not being 'read'. Who cares?

---

I care. We all have our own desires/goals when we dress and mine has always been to pass as well as I possibly can when I'm out.

---

I can promise you that 99% of TGs will be read and are read. You won't get away with not being unless you are VERY lucky and since you brought it up I would say you aren't. Otherwise you would be so confident you don't care. You need to lose that fear because you will be read and you will be outed.

Quote:

---

If that's not your desire/goal and you don't care if others see you as a guy in a dress, then that's your choice.

---

I know very few who think that way. You have a very skewed opinion. Maybe you need to re-examine YOUR prejudices. You definitely need to re-think you will not be read even if you don't speak....you have been read already. Then you even describe yourself later as a guy in dress. Let me tell you a little secret. Unless you are a very small male who was very luck either genetically or have a hormone imbalance (or start hormones before puberty) and spend thousands on surgery, you WILL be read....and you know who will read you? that man ins a dress you mentioned above. I know a Post op TS who has spent close to 100K on cosmetic surgery and she still gets read.

If you are 98% good, then the way you can do your meal is have your wife answer for you... 'she will have the special, we are both having the ....'. You just smile and nod and point. It is possible. Just a few words won't get you read.. pretend you have a sore throat or something or speak a different language, if you need an excuse.

i've only been out to eat a few times by myself and had to order in my best female voice. i didn't notice any looks of shock on her part and all seemed to to go well.
the check came to around $22.00, i placed $40 on the table and left the restaurant. smartest move i ever made!! i've gone back there several times and no matter where
they seat me in the restaurant she always seems to wind up as my waitress. wonder if the tip had something to do with it...lol anyways i've since recieved the best service
from her and really don't think it would matter if i had a full beard and wearing a dress. it always come down to the benjamin's, and now i have a nice place to eat without worry!

Alesha, I understand your concerns quite clearly. From what I see, being 'read' visually is highly unlikely. Therefor, I suggest some voice coaching - with a lot of practice you will be able to do it quite convincingly.

For me, it's not really a big problem. We don't get out together often, but when qwe do, it seems to work well. Can't say I've ever had any nasty comments or funny looks.

Oh, and Lorileah, some people's prejudices are to them matters of choice or serious issues. What works for you may not work for them!

I'm sorry, but I don't get this thread at all. If you've been out for 30 years and pass 98% of the time. How did you do this without ever working on your voice? I admire your lofty goal of passing, I just can't fathom how you could have completely ignored the last and most important key to passing. Oh well, this is only my 3rd or 4th year out and sadly, I'll never pass at 6'3", broad shoulders, large chin, big hands, and a deep voice. I make up in confidence, boldness, and graciousness what I lack in passing ability. I've had the hostess in one of the restaurants that myself and a few CD girlfriends dine at actually climb up on a chair to give me a hug on the way out the door. This is the norm for me and my friends. We exude confidence and boldness and fear nothing. The last time out, we had 10 classy ladies raising the bar and looking fabulous.

Alesha - the thing is, there will be two levels of people you're trying to pass TO. The waiter and the other guests.

The waiter is a very big ask. The other guests, much less so.

I did the whole restaurant thing the very first time I went out in public, which was a Friday night to Sunday afternoon trip to Glasgow. Restaurants, clubs and shopping. I had a pal holding my hand the whole way but it was only scary at first and soon became very natural. OK, the waiter probably spotted me but he didn't let on if he did.

And you know what. That experience was so liberating. I have NO qualms about going anywhere it would be appropriate for a woman to venture.

If you want to practice your voice, start singing along to female singers in the car.

Soften your voice and raise the pitch slightly. I know it's scary, but if you've been going out for 30 years then it's time you joined the conversation.
As for not being read...that's not going to happen 100% of the time for any of us. Just be confident in who you are and enjoy yourself.

I call BS to your 30 years of going out! It is impossible to be out in the mainstream world without interacting with others. Did you ever get hungry when you were out? Like Lorileah,I find you have an impossible obsession that just plain doesn't matter.And like Lynn Marie,people will be happy to have you,no matter what if you are good with them. How do you assign a "passing percentage" anyway? Have you been talking to Kate Spade? Come on, grow up and enjoy yourself rather than set goals which you will truly never know if you attain.Waitstaff doesn't have to show emotion to you if they clock you,they can talk about it with others in the kitchen while they are gathering their megaphones to stand around your table and embarrass your wife.After all these years,it is about time your wife got some confidence in being with you as well. So,I call BS to your story!

Personally, being read is not a big issue with me, that will happen, no matter how convincing you may be. My main issue is simple, just accept me for who I am.

Bobbi

This has been an interesting thread to read. On one hand, the OP asks for help with a specific issue in order to have a pleasant experience with her SO. On the other, some posters come on strongly with severe criticism for that behavior and spend more time chastising (mild choice of word) the OP for having her feelings and asking for help. Then there are those in the middle who listen and try to help. Maybe we could all try helping with a little empathy shown along the way?

Hi,

Interesting , It would make totaly no difference for myself,
Now what could i pass & not be noted or who would pass me & not ...look... at myself . to me its when people dont look at myself id be very worryed, because then there must be something really wrong with me. do i pass its minis , no way ever .

Voice, after talking to many 1000's of people i was only ever told by a trans woman 7 years ago i would need to sort my voice out ooops was i that bad. so what did i do . nothing , never did nore try to change my voice i wont bore you with detail , it changed , & no one ever says any thing about it, .

What im trying to say is people accept who i am the way i am if my voice is suspect no one gives a damm, nore have, & i really am in the public domain as a P R person. I have & know women who's voice's are lower than mine im allso a singer do soprano & barritone so im some where in there,

One woman is so low i struggle to get down to her bass sound, when i heard her i thought she was a male, jos was with me as well. & we comented on her, wow she is so low, join a singing group & flex those cords, you maybe surprised how you sound after,

...noeleena...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alesha_cd

.................. I've been going out in public for almost 30 years and I feel pretty confident that I can pass 98% of the time. My only concern is if I had to speak because that would surely give it away........

---

After 30 years, it's apparent this isn't going away. :heehee:

It's time for you to work on your voice. As someone else mentioned, there are instructions on youtube and I think someone has an instructional DVD on the subject.

Crossdressers appear often on the Jerry Springer TV show and most have a reasonably convincing feminine voice so it can be done. The trick would be to use your female voice often enough that it comes naturally and you can carry on a conversation using it. It's something I wish I could do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laura912

This has been an interesting thread to read. On one hand, the OP asks for help with a specific issue in order to have a pleasant experience with her SO. On the other, some posters come on strongly with severe criticism for that behavior and spend more time chastising (mild choice of word) the OP for having her feelings and asking for help. ..........

---

It happens a lot here. Many folks cannot think past their own private world and experiences and think everyone should be in that same small world. Any advice they give is based on that small world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laura912

This has been an interesting thread to read. On one hand, the OP asks for help with a specific issue in order to have a pleasant experience with her SO. On the other, some posters come on strongly with severe criticism for that behavior and spend more time chastising (mild choice of word) the OP for having her feelings and asking for help. Then there are those in the middle who listen and try to help. Maybe we could all try helping with a little empathy shown along the way?

---

No, it's simply a dose of reality.

Lorileah said it succinctly when she pointed out that 99% of us will never pass. Even those with delusions of grandeur will never truly know if they pass as you have no idea what is being said in your wake, or over dinner that night when the Muggles are having a little giggle at your expense. Life is easier when you accept that passing is not an achievable goal. Embrace the alternative, present and behave with decorum and people will treat you as you present.

This has nothing to do with settling to be seen as a "guy in a dress" (I found that insinuation to be mildly offensive). Instead, it's accepting reality. When I am out & about, I typically go out of my way to engage others. Trust me, they don't bite and when they are providing a service (such as a server in a restaurant or a sales associate at a retail establishment), they are often blinded by the green you are about to spend.

By the way, going out of your way not to speak when in a clearly interactive situation (such as dining out) will only draw further scrutiny, further ensuring that you will not pass.

I truly wish you luck in getting your head around this situation to the point where it is what it should be, a non-issue.

Alesha,

I've frequently dined out dressed with my wife and / or a number of GG friends, and I have never had a hassle. When I order, I guess I speak little more softly, and try to pitch it a bit higher. But .. even if I'm read .. I've never had a problem. I recall once that we were asked who was ordering the wine, so I said "I guess I'm the wine lady" ... a few giggles and we were set. Actually small talk with a waitress (or any GG for that matter) is something I really enjoy -- part of the girl in me coming out. And waiters have been always respectful.

Dining out en femme, at least for me, is a special experience. just a whole lot of fun. I'm sure that your wife can offer tips on how a lady acts at the table -- eat smaller bits, etc. Expect to be treated like the lady you are, and enjoy the evening!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alesha_cd

My question is, have any of you gone out to a sit down restaurant with someone and enjoyed your meal without being read? If so, how did you handle the speaking/ordering part?

---

I've probably not achieved this. But I feel it would be easier to achieve at, say, an authentic Indian or Chinese restaurant. People with other ethnicities seem to have more difficulty "reading".

- Becky

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lynn Marie

I'm sorry, but I don't get this thread at all. If you've been out for 30 years and pass 98% of the time. How did you do this without ever working on your voice? I admire your lofty goal of passing, I just can't fathom how you could have completely ignored the last and most important key to passing. Oh well, this is only my 3rd or 4th year out and sadly, I'll never pass at 6'3", broad shoulders, large chin, big hands, and a deep voice. I make up in confidence, boldness, and graciousness what I lack in passing ability. I've had the hostess in one of the restaurants that myself and a few CD girlfriends dine at actually climb up on a chair to give me a hug on the way out the door. This is the norm for me and my friends. We exude confidence and boldness and fear nothing. The last time out, we had 10 classy ladies raising the bar and looking fabulous.

---

Lynn Marie, I think it's wonderful that u can confidently go out dressed, be yourself, have fun, and be treated well by vanillas. Some of us can't comfortably do that, however.

And, in my limited experience of passing, (only one evening), I found being taken for a woman to be an eye opening experience! Men can be very dismissive. And, GG women? Treat u VERY differently!

U must admit, waitresses do NOT generally come up and give new customers hugs. The fact that u were treated BETTER than a regular patron is nice. But, simply enphasizes my point that u didn't pass. Confidence is one thing, passing as a woman entirely another!

If you can afford a vocal coach, that ought to get the job done. If not, there are various resources available for learning how to develop a convincingly female voice. IMO, the vast majority of us can develop a convincingly female voice if we work at it hard enough, using proven techniques.

Carol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

U must admit, waitresses do NOT generally come up and give new customers hugs. The fact that u were treated BETTER than a regular patron is nice. But, simply enphasizes my point that u didn't pass. Confidence is one thing, passing as a woman entirely another!

---

Very true Sherry. I'm afraid you missed my point! I'm more than quite well aware that I don't pass, and short of shortening my body and other major surgeries, I'm never going to. My only alternative is to dress well for a classy old broad, and compensate with confidence, boldness, and grace. Pretty simple actually.

What Lynn is suggesting is to do your best and be happy for being there.Treat people properly and you will get the same.To hold out from enjoying yourself due to not reaching an immeasurable goal,is silly.Life is way too short for that.

My wifes best friend has a deep female voice , and I have a very deep voice - I do stress a little when out and have to talk but I remember her and that eases the fear - I just keep the banter to a minimum do not act shy and everything will go smoothely...................Debra

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amanda M

Oh, and Lorileah, some people's prejudices are to them matters of choice or serious issues. What works for you may not work for them!

---

Interesting choice of semantics. Prejudice as a matter of choice. Seems like that would be something to work on getting rid of, No? And the replies do not seem to criticize the OP but addresses her worry that one tiny small part of her dressing will out her. Truth is, she will be outed even if she acts like Harpo Marx all night...People are not ignorant on this. They just have other agendas and you sitting there speaking Basso to order isn't going to turn any more heads than you already do. If someone "passes" 98% then the voice isn't going to change anything.

My goodness I didn't expect some of these reactions! Some of you need to chill and loosen up! On the other hand, some of you have your hearts and minds in the right place. I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth the time asking for advice on this forum with so much negativity and snarky remarks.

The comment I made about some being OK with being perceived as a guy in a dress was simply saying some of you don't try to pass and you don't care what others think and that's OK, but some of us try our best to pass and we DO care how we are perceived. That's what we strive for. If you don't strive for that then don't disrespect those of us who do. I certainly don't disrespect those who don't try to pass. Wow! Some unintentional ruffling of feathers there. It wasn't meant to be a negative comment.

For those who seem to doubt what I have said, that's your choice. I can assure you I've been going out and interacting in public for the past 28 years. Believe it or not, that doesn't have to involve talking to other people. Often times I don't speak to people even as my male self when I'm out running errands or shopping. Going out in public doesn't REQUIRE speaking all the time. Pay attention in almost any department store. Women are too busy shopping; they aren't all chit-chatting with one another. And just because I say I've been going out for 28 years doesn't mean I go out every week. I might get out 3 times in a year some years - if that. Other years it may be more - it varies. Again, we're all different and have different circumstances and degrees of CDing. Linda Allen you expressed it best. Laura912 I wish I could give you a hug!

Thank you Amanda M. I feel pretty confident that I pass visually most of the time. Now before some of you get fired up over that comment, I realize I don't pass 100% of the time but for the most part when I'm out shopping amongst the public, I blend in. If some of you have a hard time believing that then I don't know what else to say. Nailing the voice would be a great thing but it's not necessary for me. Kind of like visually passing isn't necessary for everyone. The whole restaurant idea is just that, an idea. My wife and I have been out shopping on occasion but we haven't gone to a restaurant together. We have however been to a movie. She bought the tickets and we went in together. I was simply asking for some ideas about the restaurant venture and how others have done it. I had no idea some would take it the way they have.

Lorileah, I think you are misunderstanding a lot of what I'm saying. I never said I have never been read. I'm not sure where you got that. You speak patronizingly to me and you seem to really want to let me know I'll never pass. So much for encouraging words. I know I'll never pass 100% of the time but I do feel like I have blended in well on several of my outings over the years. Why the anger? What did I say that set you off? I apologize if something offended anyone in this thread. That was never my intention.

Rogina B, yes I get hungry and thirsty. That's why I plan ahead and take snacks and drinks with me. I interact with people without speaking. It is possible. I shop next to people, walk through malls, fix my hair and touch up my makeup in the ladies restroom right next to GGs, etc. all without speaking. If that baffles you or if you think I'm "bluffing", then I can't help that. If you think that's a terrible boring way to spend an outing then I would have to disagree. As for my derived percentage, it's an estimate based upon what I have perceived over the years during my times out. There are times when I can go out and not seem to get any second looks from anyone. And there are times when I seem to get a lot more. I can't see everyone's reactions but I've been going out for a long time and I seem to be able to sense when I'm getting read and when I'm not. Obviously I have no idea what they do behind my back or what they say when I'm not around. Again, it's a perceived percentage. I'm stating a percentage solely for the purpose of letting others reading this thread know how I've experienced the public during my outings over the years. It has nothing to do with vanity or that I think I'm passable as a GG. You're actually telling me to grow up?....Really?! Nice. More condescension.

Thank you Claire and Becky for your wonderful advice. I want to stay positive and say THANK YOU to all the ladies who have provided encouraging words and who have been willing to provide useful suggestions for my original post. I know there will be disagreements. I guess I simply don't understand why some people feel the need to patronize those with whom they disagree.

Personally I don't think i have ever sat there and it did not cross my mind that person read me.
I just order another beer and enjoy myself..

But seriously people are in general curious and will look think it is our own self conciousness that will make us think they read us.

Enjoy your dinner with your wife and don't worry what others think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alesha_cd

Lorileah, I think you are misunderstanding a lot of what I'm saying. I never said I have never been read. I'm not sure where you got that.

---

maybe the words I am 98% passable?

Quote:

---

You speak patronizingly to me and you seem to really want to let me know I'll never pass. So much for encouraging words.

---

you want sunshine up your skirt? But ordering off the menu is minor.

Quote:

---

I know I'll never pass 100% of the time but I do feel like I have blended in well on several of my outings over the years.

---

Several is not 98%. You don't see saying I pass 98% as braggadocio? The OP read that "if only I could have a female voice, the world would see me totally as a woman". Maybe I misread that? What people are saying here is that your voice isn't the whole thing. You even mention that it is a perceived passing for you. Here is the truth. The world has an agenda, unless you interfere with that agenda people are not going to bother you or call you out. Just because you walked the mall, strolled the sale racks, smelled the roses doesn't mean you passed. You were just not a target a the time. The servers in a restaurant have so much more to worry about than if you sound like Lauren Bacall or Harvey Fierstein and they certainly won't laugh and point if they want to keep their jobs.

There are many many threads about how to change your voice (or walk or mannerisms) with links and directions to other sites. What people are saying here is that with as much experience as you have, why is a thing like talking to a waiter such a big hurdle? And yes I read your comment about how some people here are just guys in dresses as being rather snobbish.