Have you ever had this happen?
I have. The worst time was about 1985, when I asked an assistant to help and she and her boss purposely embarrassed me in front of women customers.
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Have you ever had this happen?
I have. The worst time was about 1985, when I asked an assistant to help and she and her boss purposely embarrassed me in front of women customers.
Sorry, never happened. Thirty years of exemplary service in women's stores.
Its never happened to me, but I have read stories where it has. Ironically most of those stories end with "And guess what? that store is no longer in business."
I'm a firm believer in the law of Karma. What goes around comes around.
The one I'm talking about closed down.
Heathr,
Humiliation can only happen if you let it. Will people have their opinions? Sure. How you react to those opinions determines how you feel about them. Recognize that they may not understand you and what you are doing, that they may not like it, and they might (unprofessionally) let you know about it. Just let it slide. If they do something to warrant the manager being involved, by all means do so - but not as a punitive thing. Instead, use it as a teaching moment. You're not trying to get the person fired, you're trying to educate and gain an ally.
In my dressing life, I have had two times where I felt they were showing an unprofessional level of distaste. Once was an older lady in Talbot's years ago. When I confronted her about her attitude, she told me that she was simply trying to protect the other ladies from a perceived threat - me. I told her I understood and let her know that I appreciated how protective of her customers she was. I told her that I never wanted to make others feel bad, and apologized for putting her into this position. That attitude . . . . changed her. The next few times I was in, she was nice, helpful, and genuinely glad to see me. What changed? She saw that we weren't the freaks many assume us to be.
The other time was in my favorite Ulta. There is an older lady that works there. Every time I came in - dressed or otherwise - she made a beeline to the opposite side of the store where I was talking to the other girls. Over the years, she has warmed up to me, and now greets me by name, and will make it a point to come and say hello.
So, in this - as in everything else - our interactions and our perception take two people. It is not only about what is said or done, but how you react to it.
Kathi
I've gotta admit that it has never happened to me. The least friendly thing I've ever had happen that I can recall, was when I was shopping in boy mode in a mall where the Macy's was separated into two different stores for male and female stuff. I asked if there was someplace I could try on the dress and she gave me kind of a sharp look and said "Not in the ladies dressing room!" I don't blame her for not letting someone who is obviously male enter the womens dressing room, but I do think that she might have been a bit nicer about it, or maybe offered to have it sent to the mens department so that I could try it on there. Blunt and less than helpful - yeah. Rude and try and embarrass me - no.
Never. Me customer, they employees. My money puts food on their table. I have never had any problem of this sort but would have no qualms about elevating it to the appropriate level to get satisfaction. As Kathi said, "Humiliation can only occur if you let it." I don't let it.
Kathi, I like the way you handled all of that! It would have been easy to blow up and make a huge scene, but that would just affirm that they don't want to do business with us. Sometimes taking the time to be calm and explain things goes a long way! Being nice usually goes a lot further than being angry or upset. Good on you! You are a great example for us all.
There are impolite salespeople out there, but they get weeded out very quickly. If they're willing to watch a potential big spender (and TGs are!) walk out with a story to tell other potential big spenders then they are not long for the business, nor are their stores if they encourage this sort of thing.
I went through a sensitive phase where the least negative feel from others bothered me greatly. I'm now to the point where I realize that nobody can truly tell my gender. They might suspect, but there is always the chance lingering in their mind that I am really a tall, not very attractive GG. They might giggle after I'm gone, but they'd do the same with unattractive GGs.
happen to me several times.
once a FTM said "hey you in the red tee shirt and blue jeans in the TG/TS/CD section of the store on a loud speaker we close in a half our out loud"
On a few occasions the sales staff were absolutely horrified that a man was in the bras and panties department. They never said anything but the looks I got were lethal. And to top it off on two separate occasions the evil harridans called security. I know it was because of me. I can't believe that they had never had a man shopping for lingerie. Needless to say I got somewhat spooked. Since then I pretty much stick with the internet. They are happy to service me!
I can pass fairly decently, it's just the voice that gives me away. So I try not to speak that much. I also don't dress to attract too much attention when I'm out, so I can usually cover it up with "God, don't you hate being sick? My voice has been like this all week!" In addition, I usually try to shop on the other side of the state line when I go shopping. It's kind of just a comfort thing. In general, I don't usually get hate, but I do have a crossdressing friend who was told to ask the women's section of a boutique a few months ago. They got robbed the other day, but they haven't gone under (yet)! Lol.
Note that the OP said this happened in 1985. That is 28 years ago. Long before the internet and the age of communication. In 1985, that kind of behavior could be expected.
In today's world, that kind of behavior is the exception, although, I'm sure it could still happen.
I have been shopping openly and trying on as a guy since 1999. Early on, I would experience some coldness and refusal, but as was said, these stores were not there the next time I went in. When this would happen, I would smile, tell them I will spend my money elsewhere and leave. In the last 10 years, I have received nothing but acceptance.
Jodi
Only one time many years ago an SA in a department store lingere department was quite rude when I asked about sizes. She rolled her eyes and walked away without answering my question. However that has been the only time. All of my experiences since then have been exceptional. I would like to think the rude SA was just having a bad day. The department store chain where it happened is no longer in business. (Montgomery Ward)
Hugs
Ellen Jo
This year - I was getting into the habit of going to a thrift store that had the lowest prices, but also always had the same cashier. The last time I was there I'm sure I was being laughed at by her and a male employee. I don't go there anymore. I'm getting a little too familiar in other thrift stores too, but at least they have several different cashiers.
A few years a ago I walked into a consignment shop and within minutes the manager/owner? said out loud in a joking way, "there's a man in the store ladies". I wasn't actually outed, but still felt it was best to leave.
If you go into a national dept store and get treated badly you can always contact the corporate office and I bet they will fall over themselves apologizing. I don't know what to tell you to do about a local business in a smaller city. I know in a larger city there usually a web page that rates businesses. Post something on a site like that would get their attention. A small town with with a small minded owner I don't know what you can do. I shop with my wife all the time and we buy clothes that the cashier has to know won't fit my wife and I have never had any of them make a comment.
I have never experienced any poor service or bad behavior from sale associates, and I shop a lot. Debglam and I have done a lot of shopping together, and I cannot recall a single bad incident in a lot of different stores. If someone asks nicely, Debby may share the rules to a game she came up with called Arden Fair Mall Melissa Bingo.
The attitudes in 1985 are quite different from today so incidences from ~30 years ago are not reflections upon today. Jerks and bitches can be found anywhere and at anytime. As others have said, most important is your reaction to the boorish behavior. Going ballistic rarely helps, and handling it with poise and grace often nets a better outcome.
A few times for me. I was nice to the SA verbally but I gave her a good stare that let her know I wasn't happy.
99% of the time I get treated well.I have a few SA's that call me by name and always give me a hug.
If you raise a big stink it won't accomplish anything.If you have problems call the corporate office or complain on line.
Never happened to me. I cant say what might have happened 28 years ago, but I assure you I would have looked a lot better!
Only once and it was when I was a teen in 1969. I had an absolute passion for nylon nightgowns (peignoirs) and I still do. I went into a small shop that catered to teen girls and found several drop dead gorgeous, super full and frilly 3 piece babydolls. I gave the usual beginner's BS line about buying for my sister. The silly thing is, I had made more than a few visits to this shop over the span of a year and being a kid, I did not realize they had noticed my several visits with a slightly different story each time.
The the next time I went in I started with my story -again- and the manager took the outfit off the hanger and rang up the sale. Just as soon as I gave her my hard earned money from my part time job, she loudly asked "What do you do with these when you are through with them?" I guess she assumed I was using them for sexual gratification. She then said "I KNOW you are wearing all these outfits. Do you want to put this one on now and wear it home?" That got everyone in the shop laughing at me. I know I turned 27 shades of red.
A couple weeks later I was walking by the store trying not to look in the window and one of the SAs came out and called after me just as I was going into the Woolworth's.. I stopped and was quite scared about being further embarrassed. She said she knew I was wearing these at home and that is was fine with her and the other younger clerks. She said they felt terrible about the way I was teased and she apologized. She asked for my number and said if I was interested, she would call me when something new came in and when the manager would not be in the store. I did and she did and it was a great way to forget the humiliation from the one visit.
I've usually been treated OK in a variety of settings. In boy mode one time a sales associate gave me bug eyes when she saw the sandals I was buying (the kind that lace up your leg and you tie in a knot, flat). I weakly said they were for my girlfriend, and she said, "Yeah right." At another store I couldn't quite tell if the gg SA was crackig wise at the flip flops I was buying, saying they will look really pretty on me. Ironically when I go out dressed up, I pass 3/4 (as in from the sides and from behind but not in the face), and I receive fewer issues. At an adult store a gg SA pointedly addressed me as sir, but that's usually been it. Yeah some are uncomfortable, but some are helpful. Vote with your cute feet.
Also when I was in grad school, there was a student in a class I TA-ed. She worked at Victoria's Secret. She told me about a guy who wanted to try stuff on in dressing room. Now Vicky's I think has a very tolerant position in that you need to wait for the rooms to be clear, but have at it. This young lady did allow the gentleman to do so, but unfortunately she commented to me how f'ing disgusting she found the whole episode. I seriously lost respect for her then, and small surprise she was fired shortly thereafter.
I don't recall ever being treated in a humiliating manner. I have had a few have to take a second look, then compose themselves, but then it was all smiles and helpfulness. Or at least a reasonable facsimile. A distant cousin of mine recieved a bad reception in a clothing store from a matronly SA. She politely asked for the SA's name, saying the state civil rights commission would love to hear about her. Instant 180, but my cousin, just smiled and said her money had better places to be spent. That cousin was TS at the time.
Leah
I have negative experiences, but as a bystander. I don't feel humiliated over them, I just feel as if the people involved are idiots. lol. But I've been in situations where I saw SAs nodding toward my SO (without my SO's knowledge), and two of them were particularly noxious. They never would have shown me their true faces had they realized that I was with my SO.
But to our faces, they're always polite, always professional.
In all fairness, I think that most SAs are more open-minded about CDers than were the two that I mentioned above. At least most have the curtesy to keep their opinions to themselves.
I also consider the possibility that some SAs have encountered those strange guys who get off on dressing up in the dressing room and being exhibitionistic in trying to get a reaction from the SAs. I have seen a couple times first hand. Plus the media always paints us in a negative light especially on TV shows.
I try my best to dispel that attitude.
I've never had any problems like that. Most of them want repeat business and will bend over backwards to help as long as your money is green.:)
1985? You're carrying a grudge a pretty long time, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by heathr1
The worst I can think of was at Penny's and my wife was trying on a nightgown and wanted me to see it. I was in drab. The SA said I couldn't stay in the hall by the dressing rooms if any other women came in. No big deal. Nobody has ever said anything cross about me shopping for women's things.
I haven't had a bad experience yet. I get out quite often (like two to three times a week) and I am actually a little surprised. Someone is going to be rude sooner or later just because there is a percentage of the population is that way. I did get called sir once.... But!
I love this phrase and use it myself. We are still coming out of the closet to the population in general. If we let people stomp on us or if we get angry with other people, it won't improve things. But if we teach them and let them know we aren't hurting anyone and are their neighbors, then that percentage of uneducated people goes down a notch and that person may be our next defender. We don't win by running away or turning our back on bad situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathi Lake
Can I make what might sound like a crazy suggestion? Next time, go against this tendency. Talk to the SAs. Ask for help. "Do you have this in a medium?" I really like this but it's a bit short on me." Don't shrink back, assert your right to exist and to be their customer. A GG with a deepish voice wouldn't hide it, you shouldn't either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandilynn
It's scary. It might be tough the first couple of times. In the long run it will give you a lot more confidence and make your outings more comfortable.
The wife and I were shopping and we were in the ladies section of a rather large department store. I was looking at some dresses and a sales lady came up to me and in a rather loud voice asked what I was doing in the ladies department. Before I could say anything my wife spoke up in a equally loud voice and told the lady how she hates to shop and that I always pick out things for her to try on and that I always picked out things that made her look good. The sales lady then smiled really nice and told me how great a husband I was for helping my wife shop. I smiled at her and said thank you. By then a floor manager had come over and discretely admonished the lady for her tone and loudness of her first remark. As we were leaving the store the lady came over and again apologized. I gave her my best smile and in a very low tone told her my wife was lying and that I really was looking for myself and then in a louder voice I told her to have a good day. We never went back to that store
I was told that this certain store was very CD friendly; I even called a few days ahead
of my arrival. I wanted a corset, and they specialized in corsets. Sure, come on in.
Now it was a 2 hour drive to the location for me, about 100 miles through the city of
Chicago.
I walked into the store, there where 3 SA tending to 3 GG customers.
I walled around a while admiring all the clothes they had, and even found a few things in
my size, (30).
About 30 minuets later, one of the younger SA came up to me and asked me what
I wanted. I spoke in a quiet voice that I wanted to be fitted for a corset.
She asked again, like she did not hear me the first time, I said that I wanted a corset
fitting.
She thens repeats what I said at the top of her voice.... "You want a Corset Fitting?"
I nodded my head, then she says again very loud as so everyone in the store could hear
it..."You want a corset fitting" "Are you Nuts"
With that last comment, I walked out fast. s I was leaving, I herd, He wanted a corset!
I was very hurt by this experience, and the drive home seemed to take twice as long.
Rader
I bought some really warm fleece type sweaters on sale in a local shop a few weeks back (In-Drab). The SA was a gorgeous young blonde girl. She had noticed me looking around because she said at the till 'You knew what you were looking for ! I smiled, winked and paid. I hope I see her next time.
The attitude has not change much since 85. Yes it is more accepting now but there are still the same idiots out there that have to belittle you for whatever reason they have. Some places probably evolved faster than others.
Never thought about it back in the day, when I actually was buying for my wife. I remember looking for an item that she'd wanted, and being confronted by an obnoxious SA. I very nastily told her that I was looking for a birthday present for my wife and she just blew a substantial sale. I was loud enough that the manager came out of his office and I unloaded on him. He looked sick when I waved several C notes under his nose and walked out.
I'm much nicer now.
Leah
And I was the one who told you that they were always good with me and were supporters of the TG scene in Chicagoland.. Anyway,what continues to show in this thread is that an individual SA,shouldn't destroy the shopping experience. Just don't play to it..everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by RADER
Never had a problem. I was at Sally beauty store saturday and wasn't sure if the girls were giggling about me shopping there or about something else. I just ignored it and continued shopping. A couple asked if they could help me and said i was just looking. When i went to pay they asked if I had a sally card and i did. If they were snickerig about me,so what. I did buy a nice hot pink nail polish so they could really have something to talk about if they wanted. The rest of the items were generic type stuff like shampoo, foot cream and my favorite item was magic shave. I've never had such soft stubble free legs before. I need a gallon of that stuff. Even helped with my facial hair too. All i can say is don't be so sensitive. Sometimes these people just need some education.
I would try my best to not let it destroy my shopping experience. It would really depend on how humiliating the experience was. It could rattle my cage a bit. I don't know .
I like Kathi's approach about teaching them and not trying to turn it into a scene. People are just scared of things that they don't understand. If we don't advocate for ourselves, no one else will.
...in 1985, probably happened to me too! But, isn't it time you forget about it and move on and try it again?
As with many others, through the years I've had my good and bad. Worst time ever was in a Belk's store. Old bat of an SA wasn't all happy with me being in "her" department, and commenting that there was nothing here a man should be interested in. I bought a bra, and then had her ring it up just for spite.
I turn the humiliation around and leave them stunned.
Nothing like shock value. :)
Have things really changed that much since 1985? For those that never had any negative responses while shopping, I guarantee that many times the SA was thinking negative thoughts, but knew better not to say anything. Certainly, you are talked about after you leave the store because CDing is just bizarre to most people in 2013. Comments you don't hear - "Did you see that?", "that was a transvestite", "that dude always goes to the ladies dept.", etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogina B
I kind of get the feeling that shopping for women's clothing and lingerie in drab is okay as long as you either know what you want or are being helped by a SA. It's the wandering around the store, touching and looking closely at things feminine that sort of looks perverted and may just scare women customers.
I agree with Lynn Marie about the looking perverted and scaring women customers. I'm sure there are men who do just that.
Remember, many of these SAs are temporary or inexperienced. They may have only seen crossdressers in movies or on TV. Or they may have seen the "man in a dress" in a gay pride parade.
If you know what size you wear, you can say you're shopping for a present for your wife or girlfriend. This may get them to help you find what you want. Just don't look like you're trying to hide from them.
So your complaint is that 28 years ago, someone was rude? Pretty successful run you got going now.
I've never encountered that either.
I've been going out everywhere the last 10 years and have never had any salesperson humiliate me in any way. Things are so tight right now in the economy that were someone to do that and you have the nerve to bring it to management's attention they will do something about it. Stores cannot afford to lose a customer for any reason these days and they are very attuned to that.
It always pains me to hear about treatment like that in a retail setting. I've run a small retail business for many years, and take the profession very seriously. There is never any excuse for such behavior. Smart retailers would recognize that opportunity exists in every encounter and every customer must be treated with respect.
We've only been shopping for Tina for 8 years but in that time my only problem has been too much help. Especially in Payless, once they see me trying on heels in drab an SA will invariably show up to tell me about all the savings when buying multiple pairs. Last shoes I bought were suede and at the checkout we had a discussion of what I'd need to keep them looking their best. SA was completely sure they were for me and did all she could to make it clear that was normal.
Still waiting for that first rude SA! It will be fun!
That has totally been an experience for me too. In drab trying to sneak looks at some shoes, and a damn SA keeps popping up to tell me of the sales and closeouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by suchacutie
Some people have to pay to be degraded and humiliated by women. Just think, you got it for free.:heehee::dom:
Quote:
Originally Posted by heathr1
5 bucks says they wake up alone.
I was out shopping a couple of years ago for a present for my wife in drab. I had picked out a skirt and sweater and took it to the check out register. The woman looked at the items and said to me in a not so quite voice, where several women were in ear shot, "Would you like to try them on because I think they are too small for you." My reply in my booming baritone voice was, "Yes I know they are too small for me, but they will fit my wife just perfectly." I turned the tables on her and she was the one embarrassed, not me. I did feel like just leaving the planned purchase on the counter and telling her that it was a rude remark she had made. Before I got a chance to do that another woman, maybe a manager, came over and took over the register and profusely apologized. Then my typical reaction was to feel bad for the SA that I had embarrassed. I completed the transaction and went on my way. And yes they did fit my wife perfectly.