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I've been xdressing since the early 60s. I found this site last year. It got me wondering. The first time I underdressed was in junior college. I wore my mom's girdle and nylons under my jeans. I was afraid someone would notice the garter bumps. Nobody did.
My question is how did I get the idea to underdress? I just thought this up on my own. I'm wondering if there is a genetic component?
How many others underdressed without outside influence?
Looking back, I can see that I was not as tough as the other kids, and probably had other signs of increased femininity, but my 1st cognitive feeling of wanting to dress was when I was 17. I was in a club, began to notice a rather attractive college girl. Then somehow I not only wanted to be with her, but I wanted to look like her as well. I wanted to wear what she was wearing. What a weird moment that was for me. I left the bar, feeling really weird and unsure of what the heck I was feeling. Blamed it on alcohol. Even though I wasn't overly drunk, but nonetheless I had to blame it on something. Then the feelings started coming back within days at school. I never had the experience of older sisters (I am an only child) I didn't have a close loving relationship with my mother. It just happened, and the feeling has never left.
Problem is, most people are influenced in subconscious ways, so they don't even know that there's a 'outside influence'. To answer the original question, sure, sometimes there's a genetic influence to our behavior. And then again, sometimes there isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dani0948
For it it was just something i wanted to do i was young proably 8 or 9 when i tried on my mothers stuff. Not sure why but it was a turn on and felt right. I was a jock in school and always played sports but i would always go back to trying things on when nobody was home. There was no influance in my life that led me to this but i do know this now i love it and it part of who i am.
I fantasized about it at a very young age... maybe 5 or 6. I used to dream I went swimming in a girl's bathing suit. I have no idea what drew me to this.
I actually cross-dressed for the first time around 9 or 10 in a female cousin's clothes. Started doing it more-or-less regularly around age 15.
I vote for both nature and nurture.
I started dressing in a serious way at puberty as an escape for unnecessary adverse events. I also developed a posterior more like that of a girl than a boy, which stayed with me into my 30s.
My half-sister is lesbian and I'm pansexual so I suppose one could make a pretty strong argument for genetics playing a very strong role as we share a common parent, but we also share a similar upbringing as our father wasn't the most... Interactive with our childhood, and she started out being raised by my mom. So who knows?
I always had an appreciation for women's clothing but it never really took hold until I was in a school talent show where some other boys and myself were dressed as girls and the girls were dressed as boys. The dress was to large and the the huge bra was filled with TP, the wig was of a Halloween variety, my makeup was clownish but it was like being struck with lighting when I was dressed I didn't want to remove it. Had that feeling always been there and I just realized it? Not sure. I can honestly say that I wasn't influenced by my surrounding's.
I blame it on nature.
I just "discovered" it myself many years ago.
Kids do weird stuff - who knows why. Doesn't mean there's a genetic link. You might have worn the girdle because it was there. The end.
Don't look for something that's not there :)
I totally disagree Missus. It makes no sense to cross dress and more so to keep doing it. Peer pressure drives many kids to do things that are stupid but no one ever got pressured to cross dress. No, it is absolutely a genetic thing. No different than being gay. No one "chooses" this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMissus
Ah, the nurture/nature debate. This one has been fought at all levels of psychology, sociology, anthropology and a whole host of "ologies". Not just for CD but everything from homosexuality to serial killers.
Why do we do the things we do? Why do some people go on the be law abiding citizens and others go on to be career criminals. Is it upbringing . . . plausible. But how do you explain someone who comes from a bad home environment and grows up to a model citizen or vice versa? Most working theories agree that there has to be a biological/genetic link there which creates a predisposition. We all have certain predispositions to behavior but for some it is not as strong as others and if the environment is there (nurture) it may or may not manifest itself. Point in case, most soldiers know it is wrong to kill. Specifically, I don't translate my work behaviors to real life (the predisposition is not strong). If the nature to kill just for the sake of killing was strong, then we have a problem.
Can this translate to CD? IMHO, yes. I can no longer change who I am than I can stop manifesting the behavior traits that make me a decent person. Did "nurture" feed into that? I grew up in a house full of women and girls (only boy). My older sisters and cousins thought it would be fun to dress me up as girl one day. Did that in itself make me CD today? Not likely. It is more likely that provided the environment for a behavioral predisposition (nature) to explore - think of it sort of as a behavioral trigger. There were other incidents in my life which continued to provide that environment, allowing the predisposition to flourish and manifest (nurture and nature in sync).
So to bottle the genie . . . if I did not have a predisposition (nature) and all the same things happened, I doubt very much it would have lead to me being CD.
So I would not discount the "nature" aspect out of hand. The cold hard reality is that the experts can't even agree and we know so little about genetics and formation of neuronal connections (grey matter side of the house) to say how it effects our behavior.
Isha
That may be the single biggest misconception on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
There was no overt outside influence in my case, nor much thought beforehand. I started when I was so young that every bought I had was new and original to me.
There is no doubt in my mind that nurture has very little to do with our enjoyment of "dressing". Curiosity may play a part in why a person first tries on feminine clothing but, IMHO, the excitement, desire to do it again, etc. come from the brain and how it is "wired". Most of us received negative "nurturing", not positive.
There are many males who have worn a dress, skirt, etc. once or twice that have no desire to repeat the experience. When I first started to "dress up" I convinced my younger brother to try it also. He did a few times but then said he would not do it any more, even though I continued to do so. To me, wanting/needing to CD is like sexual preference; your preference is not likely to change due to "nurture".
It's all about how ladies things feel! When I first tried on ladies things, I couldn't get over the way those smooth nylons, tite girdle, and bra felt! That's why I briefly under dressed to work and out in the evening alone a few times.:o
But, that titillating feeling soon turned into scratches and rashes. And, under dressing became a pointless and painful phase I grew out of as Sherry blossomed!:battingeyelashes:
For me it was definitely nature. I had feminine feelings since before Kindergarten. Felt more at ease with the girls in Kindergarten and in future years although I could hang out with either the girls or boys. Played imaginary games where I got to be the girl in 1st grade until I became aware that it was not excepted in society, that is when I learned to hide these feelings. I was never dressed by my mother or anyone else, the feelings were simply there from birth. Still feel like one of the girls in a girls group, but can hang with the guys too.
I have to believe nurture. I had three older sisters who would dress my like a girl.
I found out recently that my father was transgender. This brought the same questions to my mind. I don't know the answer but it seems that there may be a connection to genetics. I only wish I could have known the whole person he,she was.
I love the question and the answers it generates. I think the answer is, clearly, "yes". My dad was a Soldier and not often home. When he was home, our relationship was very close. On weekends when he was home, he'd take me with him when he went to check on the troops. We both have a love of aviation and military history. My Dad was my hero. In spite of my early discovery of my love of feminine things, i absolutely knew i wanted to follow in his footsteps - same school, same branch of service, same specialty.
While true that my mom did raise us pretty much on her own and i had two sisters and no brothers, i don't think that had much influence on my discovery of women's clothing. I pretty much discovered that when i reached puberty and realized what my older sister was wearing was pretty and i had an overwhelming desire to wear it as well.
SO, while nurture did play a very small part - i think it is nature. I happen to think that we all live on the somewhere on the male - female continuum. Most males live on the far left and most females live on the far right. I think CDs/TSs live somewhere on that continuum somewhere other than the far right or left. One thing i've learned --- when it comes to humanity, there is no "standard". That would be too simple.
My $.02 worth anyway.
It's a fun discussion, and I always learn something, but as usual it will not be resolved here. There are few things that are purely nature or nuture. We are what we are because of both.
I have a hard time believing there is a genetic reason for anything having to with clothing. Considering the millions of years for us to have evolved from tree-dwelling apes, clothing is a rather recent thing, probably coming about as man drifted into colder climates and/or colder conditions (ice ages) moved south.
There could be, though, a genetic cause of men having strong feminine identities and desire to express them through clothing types. But those clothing types are determined by society, that is, the nuture factor. Can't escape the mix.
Please keep in mind that our drives to dress are quite different. Not all of us dress in women's clothes because we have strong internal feminine identities, Some crossdressing men are very masculine but dress very girly, whether for sexual reasons or other. Some wish they were woman, and others content to dress up occasionally. How about the fetish dressers? Maybe having a fetish is genetic-based, but certainly not the object.
As nature experiments with little changes (that is, causes random mutations), those changes may or may not be good for the survival of the species (all living things, not just humans). Over time, those that don't are usually weeded out, and those that do may pass on those changes to future generations. It just makes me wonder, what's the benefit of some humans having a drive to crossdress?
I guess I think its nature.
I think its because someone who has a very similar upbringing doesnt nessicarily end up being a CDer. Luca had a really crazy family. But was drawn to his sisters and mothers clothes. I think when your first sexual experience is with women's clothing, there is some amount of nature to that. If that wasn't the case, would luca still be a CDer. I think probably yeah.
While I don't believe CDing makes someone a certain way "more emotional, loving, caring, or whatever". I think the same is true the opposite, someone who is raised in a certain environment that does not make them a CDer.
today most people seem to blame any anti-(current fad) social act on genetics., which sometimes takes all the onus of ourselves.
If we all wore uniclothes, unihair etc., the genetics-nurture question would disappear . if there was a genetic crossdresser in that mileau he or she (depending on cd type)
would be going crazy--not knowing how to scratch the itch.
jo :brolleyes:
the mad icons are for insanity, not anger.
I guess I am going to throw in with the nature crowd. I thought a lot about this even before this thread came along... and now I'm thinking some more. Being an only child there was not any sibling influence whatsoever, both of my parents were great, felt loved and wanted, they always took an interest in what I wanted to do. Basically it was a very normal childhood without any seminal event/s that could have driven me into the arms of cross dressing. I don't when I became aware of the desire but I knew something was a little different with me since I was always envious of what the girls were wearing... really fascinated me... from full skirts to dresses, even straight skirts, I just thought they were all neat. All the while I was wondering what it would be like to wear those clothes. When I would go to the movies, if it was something I wasn't particularly interested in I would admire what the women were wearing. Since I never heard any other boy talk about similar feelings, there was just something inside telling me that my feelings should remain with me only. Then on occasion there would be a column in Dear Abby or Ann about cross dressing... I would read that until the ink lifted off the page. That is when I realized that is exactly what I wanted. Never did anything while I was living at home, just wondered and wished. When I moved out on my own, I had a few brushes with CDing but nothing serious.
Not too long after striking out on my own, I got married and this was the first time I really had a full compliment of items to try on. Here is where my story is completely unique... (LOL)! I started out small, just try on an item here and there, then another thing or two and then on and on and on! There just is something there that keeps this urge going and where it came from, I really just don't know. I was not led into it by anybody or any event, it has been within me for as long as I can remember. So my vote will be with nature as you probably can tell. I'm sure that some of us could certainly have been brought into the CD fold by nurture. I'm sure that if I had that kind of nurture, it would have fit in very nicely with my nature.
IMO most males at a very young age wear females clothes as a lark or a way of exploring. They borrow the mother, sister's, aunt's clothes just to do something different. Some of us continue and grow & grow in your dressing, so I believe that there must be something in are DNA that leads us to dress enfemme and maybe decide to live our life this way. I hope that I made some sense. No one, in my youth, encouraged me in this direction. As I have posted many times that starting at a very young age I had many dreams that as an adult I would live as a woman, AND that a male, always wealthy and a young widower, feel in love with me, and wanted to marry moi, and I would always be troubled if I should just exit or be trueful and t6ell him who I really wa, at this point I would wake up. I must have had this dream, or a slight variation of it, hundreds, yes hundreds, of time. The dreams continued until I reached the age of 20 or so.
I would have to lean towards nurture. I personally never really had a male figure to look up to so over time I accepted it as the norm. I didn't come to terms with it until I left the military. I also have to agree that not every one who was raised this way would have the same outcome. Every one is unique in their own way.
I agree with Nicole.
I guess it depends on how you define nature, if it is in the DNA, or if some event triggers a preference for feminine clothes in the brain, at an early or not so early age. Not saying that the CDing is or continues to be a fetish for everyone, but if we do just look at any other preference for unusual things, I don't think people are born with genes that regulate a preference for latex, or bondage, or feet, or any other strong preference that people can have.
I think that nature is only at the root when a person is transsexual or some form of intersex perhaps. There is a real need to look and live as a woman (for MtFs) in order to match internal gender identity, and it is accompanied by a strong distaste for looking and living as a male. If someone identifies as a male and does not hate their penis but just has an intense attraction to the clothes or to wanting to look like a beautiful woman, then I think this is mostly nurture - an internal need brought on by some type of accidental imprinting, and not necessarily a need brought on by something external if for example their mothers or their sisters dressed them as children ... although this is possible too. But then again maybe some people have personalities that are more susceptible to the influence of one-time accidental events, or events that occurred several times. If the personality causes a person to be easily influenced by things or events, then I supposed this would be nature, although not necessarily for the CDing. If this makes sense.
To the CDers who always felt different than other boys, unless you are TS and don't know it yet, I know some men who are not CDers, are not gay, but who don't have the same interests as other men. One such friend is an historian. He is the least macho man that I've ever met! It happens without necessarily predicting a preference for the CDing, just as there are women who are very sports-minded and competitive and who hated all the ultra girly stuff during childhood ... and they still have a solid preference for presenting as a female.
As always, this is just an opinion.
No idea why, just found a dress in the closet when I was about 4 or 5. Put it on and have been doing it ever since.
I really don't have much of an personal opinion on the issue. I will say though, I once asked my therapist, long before I completed transition and SRS, whether being TS was nature or nurture. She told me that most probably that Nature paves the way for Nurture to do what it does and that it is more a synergistic union of the two to create the influence that pushes the person.
I know that for me, I knew from age of four that I was being treated in a way that was different than the other girls in my family. I knew that I was supposed to be the same as they were with respect to clothing and habitus and social expectations. At age seven, I ran away from home because I refused to dress as a boy at the start of the second grade. Needless to say, it was running away that got my family to realize that I was different and was sincere in my insistence that I was a girl and needed to dress the part. After that, Life was pretty much accommodating my needs. I had SRS then at an early age.
I think there's a middle ground.
I recall a news story about a man who had feminine feelings about himself. He was 50 something, I believe, when he went for an ultrasound of his intestine. And, while the article was not specifid, he apparantly had internal girl parts, in addition to his external boy parts. In effect the man was intersexed. Depending on your view, he was either suffering from "estrogen poisoning", or natural HRT.
So, how do we identify a boy from aq girl? Baby pops out, and the doctor identifies what kind of external parts are visible, and you get an M or an F on your birth certificate.
But all embreyos start out female, and then boys are washed in Testosterone, and the girl parts atrophy and the boy parts develop. But what if there was a little mix up in the T wash? What if it was too late, or too early, or not enough, and part of the brain was F and the other part was M. Ther's no way current medicine can test the brain to see if it is F or M, but just being mixed might pre-dispose a child to be transgendered.
What if puberty started late because the T was late increasing. Since the brain is still growing, couldn't that amke the brain part F and part M?
So, are these events nature? Maybe or maybe not.
My crossdressing just came about one day, perhaps a combination of nature AND nurture. I had no knowledge of crossdressing, or what it might mean, or if others were doing it – I just DID it. However, I didn’t underdress until later. I did the overdressing first, and then moved inwards, gradually becoming more and more like a traditional transvestite. One fine day I was complete. I looked in the mirror, smiled, and wondered why I hadn’t started sooner...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dani0948
:sad:
I think most of us are just "born with it" and there's something in our lives that triggers our crossdressing. For me, when I was little I always liked girls clothes cause I thought they looked pretty; even as young as age 6 or so I would feel this way. Eventually in my teens or so, I had a chance to try on my sisters clothes and really liked it and it all started there. From that point on, I guess I nurtured the habit and became the cd I am today!
I've always wondered why I wanted to dress and look like a girl. The first time I did I was like 7 or so, way before I became sexual, so I feel I didn't do it for sexual reasons even though I did later in life.
I'm now in my 50's and just recently realized I will want to do this all my life and just except it.
I think it occurs at birth.
However...I do not think it is genetic as my mother, father, grandparents, children, and grandchildren are not cds as far as I can tell.
^My ex wife. Her predilection for all things male was one of the hints that MAYBE she might understand my case of the reverse. Sadly, nope. Guys who like girl stuff were still considered somewhat insane by her.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I think there's an underlying nature, but nurture can trigger it, bring it out more, or repress it.
I'd say genetics in my case ?
for me was about 6 years old wearing my mothers nylons and getting caught by her! - I have no idea how this started all I can remember is putting them on and feeling pleasure (not sexual) - please don't tell dad I begged but she did, they had a good laugh
from then I always was thinking 24/7 about being a girl , being jealous of the girls at school wanting to be like them , all the while dressing at home wrecking several pairs of nylons , mom never said a word but deep down I knew she knew! then she had heels OMG how good were they??? lol
one day taking dad to work in winter I noticed he had nylons on under his trousers (excuse was that it kept his legs warm from the cold) hmmmmm I never really thought much of that until later in life ......maybe he was (he's been departed for 17 years now) like I am? This is where I think the genetics kick in?
Of course one day (about 12 now)I was climbing up a post at our house and got for the first time that AMAZING rush in my pants, wow I thought this is awesome and I began to associate dressing with this activity
I used to have a button shirt I would tie up below breast line and stuff with my socks and go to sleep like that more often than not with nylons on (had a lock on bedroom door!)
One day after waking and going back to sleep mom came in my now unlocked door and for some reason lifted the sheets up to see what I was wearing- but!! I had already taken them off before going back to sleep! PHEW!!! Deep down to this day I know she knows I dress or have dressed in the past but not sure if she thinks I still do
I'm 50 now and happily married with a wife who knows and encourages me to be me within reason, i have been out dressed with her to a few places and all gone well
Just doesn't happen often enough I feel as though I need to be dressed every day :(
Sorry for gibbering on and off subject at the end