Just wondered what everyone thinks about that statement? Someone posted it in another thread.
I have been going out dressed a lot recently and have my opinion. But, I think I'll see what others have to say first!:D
Just wondered what everyone thinks about that statement? Someone posted it in another thread.
I have been going out dressed a lot recently and have my opinion. But, I think I'll see what others have to say first!:D
I agree Sherry.
I tend to agree with it. I always try to be on my best behavior when I am out. I may or may not be recognized as TG, but if I am I want to be a polite, classy TG.
In any community, it's important to think of the whole community. The choices that an individual makes can and will affect us all.
Be yourself when you go out, make your decisions and live with the consequences. The world is too big to worry about one person's actions and how they may or may not affect everyone else. I say that because soon we will hear from the dress your age, dress appropriately, don't dress like a slob, which for many people is comfort dressing, and then who gets to set those artificial and unenforceable rules that everyone should live by. We have people who already dress and present themselves as they wish who are not even transgendered, and I never hear from anyone that they are setting a bad example for women, men, Catholics, northerners or southerners. It really is no big deal. Each of us have to live our own lives, own it and deal with the obstacles that we encounter without looking to blame someone else why we are not accepted nor tolerated. All for what it is worth, which for many here may be nothing.
I hate to say it but it is true, and not just in this community. I have learned that in my career for sure, over and over, and it applies in many other areas. For example, look at the opinions people have of people from West Virginia (my home), or Alabama, or California. People in or from those states do things and others look at is a representation of everyone from that state. It is absolutely not a fair statement but it is true.
Danni
I do feel that I have to consider how I present myself. I know I won't pass - at best hope to either blend in somewhat, and when the inevitable happens, I hope that people will see me as someone who presents self assured and comfortable with being who I am.
Much as I want to agree with Sherry it just isn't realistic. While many just want to pass at least from a distance, a few strive to and do pass up close, I have seen posts on this Forum of those who go out wearing a beard and a dress, don't wear a wig and have short unstyled hair or no makeup or "any gender" clothes and so on. Others pass at a distance but everyone knows of their true gender --- are accepted in their town and are confident, comfortable and contented --- and we all say "You have a perfect right to present in any manner you choose". Does
that kind of diversity further our cause? Does it help an unitiated unlooker understand what is a crossdresser? I don't know of one answer that would satisfy everyone in this wide spectrum --- wish there were.
Julie
In my neck of the woods, most GG's and GM's don't 'pass' for their own gender. I feel like I have to go find a pair of SpongeBob square pants yellow pajamas, clogs, and a red non-matching sweatshirt and mess up my hair to blend in. That's actually an outfit I saw today at the market. It was a mom with four rather well dressed school kids.
I won't even get to the weight issue because I believe that no matter what your size or shape, there are still stylish clothing choices that anyone can make to look good. I swear I should call the fashion police, but then this town would be truly vacant.
I saw, no matter what gender you want to present as, try your best. If you want your outfit to say "hay look at me", then have at it. But don't complain with people stop, stare, and take videos of you to post. Me, I prefer to blend in both genders. I dress well for office work and dress well to go shopping. Even if I'm working on the lawn and have to make a trip to the store for a part, I'll change out of the sweats for something more presentable....
Just my thoughts.....
Renne.....
Julie ,
You are so right with what you said...What is representing anyways? Everyone say's we do not have labels but then threads like this come up .. Shall we all be clean shaven when we go out? Should we all dress a certain style ? It's not possible and for us to have no labels the expectations are set pretty high to fit under one umbrella..If I was the type who loved going "out" I wouldn't care to follow any unwritten rules on how I should go out..Rather just be myself ..No phun to the O.P. or anyone who doesn't agree with me ..
When those boys were giving me grief the other weekend, I really wanted to take the fight to them, then I thought about YouTube and my sisters on this forum, so being a lady I returned to my seat after a polite chat to them.
One reason I dress to fit in when I go out is so the general public can learn to accept us without people feeling threatened. It may not be 7 inch stillettoes and miniskirts, but it still rocks!
I think as a whole we are on our best behavior when out and about. Speaking for myself, I always try my best to make a good impression on people. I have been on several group outings with other CD and trans girls and in many cases we have acted more ladylike than some GGs
I think I was the one who said that, Sherry... :)
You have to remember, most people have formed their opinions of crossdressers from sources like the Jerry Springer show. (Amy shudders) Most of them have never seen a real live CD en femme "in the wild." The impression you leave them with may influence their impression of all CDs. It's not "fair," but that's how it is.
So I do my best to dress attractively but not provocatively, and comport myself in a ladylike manner at all times. Of course, I may get read anyway, given that there aren't many GGs out there in my size. But if so, at least I'm leaving them with a good impression. And, later on, if that person is in a conversation with someone else and the subject of crossdressers comes up, which would you rather hear him or her say?
"I saw one of them the other day. Dude was a total FREAK! He was dressed like a 2-dollar hooker. NO WAY would I want one of THEM near MY kids!"
Or:
"I saw one of them the other day. She actually looked really good, and seemed like a nice enough person. I don't see what the big deal is. She's not hurting anybody."
Of course, this may not always work, and even my relatively-classy appearance might still inspire a knee-jerk "CD! Yuck!" response. But, you know the old saying: "You never get a second chance to make a first impression." So make it count. :)
- Amy
I do think that I do represent our community when I go out.
Whether I pass or not is not a concern to me. But I do try to look my best and I do get complemented on my appearance. Classy, not trashy or flashy.
I believe that the statement is B.S..
Should I as a person who treats crossdressing as recreation really be expected to be representing someone with GID and vice versa?
To the average Joe and Jane there is no difference between recreational CDers and people with GID. All groups should promote a positive image simply for our own mutual self-interest.
"We must hang together, ladies...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately"
- Benjamin Franklin, um with edits by PaulaQ
I find that true and false at the same time.
True we are representing a whole community and we want to be presentable and not stick out.
My false comes in because of the perception of us in the eyes of the public. Not that cders are bad people but at times we just want to blend in as a female and not a cder. Lets just say not enough people accept us and we dont want to be associated with crossdressing we just want to be ourselves.
I hope that made some kind of sense.
Tough to answer Sherry and a very complex statement. Are we talking about (1) our presentation e.g. fitting into the CDers 'rule book' of age appropriate dressing; (2) the friendly disposition that we portray and the friendships we build by being different and personable; or (3) educating those with whom we interact about CDers?
My going out dressed is purely personal and I enjoy the friendly interaction in the community. Where I (often) receive great service I provide written feedback to the owner/manager. Builds relationships and rapport. Far more important and meaningful to the entire community than blending in the 'right' clothes.
I represent me but the CD community hopefully benefits.
Princess Chantal often dresses more traditionally female than I do. He dresses as costume, including historical costume. I dress for identity.
My wife complains sometimes that I dress "too PTA-ish" (PTA is Parent Teachers Association). Especially if I am wearing "Business Professional", such as a suit/skirt or suit/dress. And I keep saying to myself, "And that's supposed to be a problem??" There are casual "going to Home Depot and Costco" kind of clothes, there are business professional clothes, there are fancy dress clothes. The fancy dress clothes put me in mind of "a guy who is trying to look like a woman". Overdone for the situation. I guess somewhere I have some "nothing special" dresses and skirts, but some days you just want to be better put together than a $15 polyester print dress. Why not business professional? Why not look sometimes like you are not "imitating" being female, and look like you are a professional? At least for those of us more on the trans side, those of us who live dressed, rather than dressing "on special occasions" or "when we think we can get away with it" or "taking a day of femme time".
Anyhow. When I go out dressed, I now seldom think about "representing" the community: I think about representing myself. Some people who have never seen me around before might possibly see me as an example of "cross-dressers" and potentially their opinions might be altered for the worse if I am sloppy that day. But by now that seems to be a small portion of the people around. Some of the people have seen me before, some have not, but people on the whole seem to sort of mentally file me under "exception to the rules". Harmless. Not invoking of the class of cross-dressers. Doing what is natural for me. "Nothing there to see, move along."
Graciousness was part of my upbringing. I always attempt to present grace and caring whether dressed or not. Dressing as a slightly naughty librarian and a classy old broad shouldn't put too many folks off!
I am reminded of seeing someone crossdressed when shopping at a Sears store once. She was dressed like an down and out transvestite hooker (not passing at all) wobbling in 4" heals with spandex pants that were so thin you could see the outline of her hip and butt pads. But the worst part was the cruel comments of the shoppers that witnessed her. No they didn't say it to her but talked among themselves. They asked the SA to kick her out because she was an affront to their sensibilities and thought she was obscene. No one had anything good to say about her. The SA said he was powerless to do anything because [he] was breaking any rules or being unlawful. I don't think she knew what she really looked like to others and she probably thought she looked hot. By the reactions of the "srtaight" people she wasn't a good ambassador for the cause. There could be 100 great representatives of crossdressing for those people to see and all they will remember is her. The good ones don't even have to pass just not offend.
The one who said that isn't wrong and I believe it to be true for basically any subset of people you can imagine (e.g. people with certain interests, people from certain areas of the world, people with a certain colour of skin, etc.). Your behaviour (or in this context apparently more relevant, your wardrobe) may change or affirm other people's ideas or prejudices of the subset you recognisably belong to. There's no denying that the whole 'T* community' (many think we're all the same anyway) has something of an image problem. People think we're somewhat odd at best (probably justified) and totally disgusting and offensive at worst. The question remains however how effective a single member or even quite a few members of that group can be when it comes to changing and especially improving these ideas.
FALSE.
Are any 2 CDers [no matter what label {if any} they CHOOSE to use] exactly alike?
Or have the same "goals" in their dressing?
There is no right or wrong way to CD.
Doc,
I tend to agree with you there, but there are those that seek freedom of expression and their values are quite different.
I like to enjoy appearing like a woman and pass.
It does not always happen.
Looking through the threads from others, lets not get into arguments trying to express ourselves, tread lightly and get your message across.
This could be a good discussion.
Don't wake up the mods, they may be inclined to close it.
If we as a community wish to gain the acceptance of the general public then it is a very important thing to remember.
As with other groups, it's always the ones that stand out for the wrong reasons that are remembered the most, like those bikers in NY that assaulted the family in the SUV.
How interesting is it that nearly all put most of their emphasis on appearance for representing a positive respect for the transgender community. Eryn focused on behavior in her post. I believe that behavior and actions have more positive impact for representation of a person.
On a fundamental level I agree that we (the community writ large) should strive to provide a positive image of TG gals so we can gain greater acceptance. However, I am not convinced this has so much to do with clothing as it does with interaction. Rather than getting too hung up on short skits, stiletto pumps and crop tops, I think the messaging should be smile and normalize. Heck if a GG dressed provocatively, people would still stare and whisper (I've seen this) but if the interaction is pleasant and person is gracious then it becomes a non-event. More of an "each to their own".
When I go out dressed, I hold no illusion that people know I am a guy and while my clothing may be subdued and more mainstream (jeans, tops, boots, coat), the opinion about me is still there regardless of how I am dressed. However, if I run over to every person who gives me a snide look and "rip a strip off them" people around me are likely to think . . . crazy tranny regardless of how good I look. So I prefer to normalize the event, smile and move on. I think this becomes a non-event and if I were dressed like I was going clubbing, the same would most likely happen.
In the end, I think as a community we should strive to be "good people", interact kindly, help others and just be a nice person . . . wait a minute shouldn't we be doing that as guys also? :battingeyelashes:
My two cents
Hugs
Isha
People of Walmart comes to mind, in that perspective I gotta say yes.
I have no control over the entire community. I can only control my own personal actions.:)
I think the statement is unfortunate. Yes we can appeal to people who are placed in the same category as us to behave in a manner that is less likely to reinforce negative stereotypes on us, that makes sense. But we can't enforce it and we can't judge others. To do so is the ultimate hypocrisy from us, because here we are saying "I know I belong to the community called genital males, but my personal position is that I am x% female so i have to express myself in this way or I will go insane." For us to turn around and say "Now you're one of us, you have to conform to a particular standard so that w***ers with TV shows stop mocking us" is simply imposing the kind of homogeneity on transgendered people that society is trying to impose on everyone with its artificial concept of two mutually exclusive genders.
Some crossdressers are respectable ladies, some are wild party girls, some are quiet stay-at-homers, some are drag queens and tranny ****s. (Women cover that range too.) None of us can do other than be ourselves, and that includes me, pedantically pointing out that this isn't a debate knowing full well you will all be yourselves and have that debate anyway! It's no different from the debate journalists are trying to stir up among women about Miss Cyrus "setting a bad example for girls". We all behave as we are. If you go out and you behave well and you don't get read, you're nto representing TVs, you're representing women. If more well-behaved crossdressers were more visible, (ironically) we could change public perception. The naughty girls are the ones who get noticed, isn't that obvious?
(All said in love and sisterly affection, I must add!)
Exactly!!And they don't know what is in your panties unless you tell them!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
CDers with a strong feminine identity who dress to express their femininity and blend in public do not represent me. As an over-the-top dresser who occasionally goes out but mostly stays home, I do not represent other CDers. I expect good behavior from everyone at all times, CDer or not, and people should be held personally responsible for their actions. Unfortunately, there are many here who consider bad behavior going out dressed to a different standard as themselves.
While they jump on the "there's no right or wrong way to CD", they don't really believe it, taking cheap shots at those who like to express themselves by wearing six inch heels and miniskirts.
The reasons we are driven to dress and the way we express those drives are so diverse, there really is no "community" here. So in my opinion, Doc, the premise of the question is invalid.
As I read through the responses to the original post I started noticing a common theme among many of the replies, that we do need to remember that we are representing a larger group. While I agree that this is true there is a second issue which I think that this type of thinking ignores, before we represent the group, we first represent ourselves. Which of the two thoughts is more important, should we worry about representing the group, or the individual? I know a lot of people are of the belief that the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one. This is where I have to differ. If we put the needs of the group ahead of the individual are we any different than the rest of the world who look at us and decide that there is something wrong with a person because they don't "measure up"? Personally I try to put forth a good image and have appropriate attire for where and what I'm doing, and hopefully that does present a good image for the whole group. However I'm not doing that because I am worried about representing the group, but because I'm representing myself. So I guess what I'm trying to say is first we have to worry about representing who we are, and if that goes along with the image that the group wants to present great, and if not, then so be it.
It's important to remember u represent an entire community when u go out.
thats not what i am thinking when i go out ... most of the time i go alone because in the past a few tras/cders get half in the bag and try to be fem or get their sexy on huge side show not my thing..... if i go out its abought going out to enjoy.... i have had encounters some good some bad.... but i go as myselfe not to be a side show so that probly dose going out to enjoy represent an entire community..........
That's true for any group or culture.
I think this statement made by Doc is very true. Anytime someone sees one of us in public it leaves an impression of some kind or another. I always try to look my very best and dress for my age unless I'm going out to a glamour/drag event or costume party wearing a long ball gown etc. I feel dressing the best I can makes it easier for someone to approach me, maybe ask questions if they want to and maybe, maybe I can shed a little bit of light to that person about what we do and change that person's view point.
If I'm dressed with belly shirts, tight shorts, PVC boots and have a beard then people might not be so inclined to engage me and worse case leave them impression in someone's head that we're all just a bunch of creepo's.
One man doesn't necessarily represent all men. To live life constantly worrying what others think....well. There will always be some people out side the norm. Who defines it? Just live your life as you wish as it is your life, and I will live mine
My preference would be to not take on the mantle of representing anything. Much prefer to fly under the radar, blend in and, at last resort, present as a cute CD. Barring achievement of the first two, guess I will be on best behavior. But then am I always not on best behavior ;)
Hugs, Robin
I agree that attitude and your actions often means more then how you look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
I don't think that statement was intended to mean that every cder who goes out needs to dress the same and the act same. The fact is that all of us in this group get labeled by what is seen in the various media and the stories that go around. Just look what you come up with when you do a web search for crossdressers, a lot of it is purely pronographic. I believe that what is being said here is that the overall appearance and attitude presented should be one that would not lead to further criticism of the group as a whole.
That being said if you look around plenty of people out there try to make a statement about the "group" they belong to. Tattoos and piercings, what they drive etc. and a lot of other people look at them and don't like what they see. It's a fact that not everyone is going to accept everyone else no matter what lifestyle they persue. You just have to make a decision about what you as individual want to represent and live with your own actions.
Like it or not this is how those outside of our community often times form their views and opinions. This applies to any segment outside the common view of the norm. I think that as along as we are reasonably considerate of those around us we are OK. Even the example of the obvious CD in Sears probably adhered to this concept. She didn't act obnoxious or confrontational and although she didn't present well in the opinions of those around her she just did her thing. I would hope I don't appear that way.
Another example of how I apply my rule is to usually call a women's clothing store in advance of my arrival so as not to make them or myself feel uncomfortable. I personally wish to go where i'm welcomed.
In closing I do see the contrary view as having valid points but this is how I try to conduct myself.
Sherry this board is only a small sampling of TG people. When I go out I try my best to look good and blend.
I can't and won't try to control what others do, only what I do.
Sorry, I don't want to represent you are anyone else, I choose to march to my own drum beat thank you, and have enough trouble representing myself.
I think in any community there are always groups with in the group. I think we as CDs are just as diverse as GGs and personalities and interests will stretch from one extreme to the other. There will be girls who dress and act very conservatively and others who will spend there time at the adult theater dressed like a hooker. And I think that's fine,to each there own. I don't think that anyone of us is responsible to maintain a certain image for the sake of someone else. If that were the case we should all just stick to men's cloths because that's what the public at large would except. I think all the same rules that would apply to a GG. Should apply to a CD. To me that's kind of the point of the whole thing. I know what CDing is about for me. And I know and accept that it may be about something totally different for another girl. To me the whole point of this forum is to have a community where all CDs can come together and support one another and escape the pressure and general BS. From the outside world likes to force on us. I think is we push our own vision of CDing on the group as a whole we are no better than the vanilla crowd that would look down on us from the outside
Doc, the statement is NEVER true. If you want to see just how untrue it is, apply it to other groups (Blacks, Jews, Gays, Asians) and you will see that it is this kind of collectivist thinking that motivates racism, sexism, homophobia, nationalism, & etc. The so-called "transgender community" is nothing but an abstraction. If that abstraction were to be used against me to deny me my right to to express myself as I see fit, then the "transgender community" is my enemy the same as the bigots they hope to placate. Luckily, I'm a closet case so I really have no dog in this fight.
Isha and lilSissyStevie both have it right.
For me, cross-dressing represents a means of expressing another side of my being. Remember the days before the Internet when we (most of us) thought we were the only ones who were this way? The Internet brought freedom and the realization that we are definitely not alone, and that it's OK to be different. It would be a travesty to use this same freeing mechanism to enforce some notion of group-think for the "collective good" of the community. The people who judge based on clothes are unlikely to ever to come around to accepting how we are. Concentrating on being the best PERSON you can be (whether male, female, or in between) is a much more laudable goal to have.
Another interesting aspect of this thread is that input is coming from people from many nations where different life approaches are acceptable. As an American, it is part of our nature to crave freedom in expressing ourselves. I accept that people from different cultures may have different approaches to life than I do, and that is cool. And isn't that the whole point? Granting acceptance to someone else AS THEY ARE gives us hope that the same will be granted to us. My two cents.
I think it's how you represent yourself and if you do that well the representing of our community should be fine. I try to dress appropriately when going out and pick my battles wisely, in other words avoid battles or confrontation.
I've had this used in this forum as a stick to beat me for what people assumed about my presentation, so, no, I'm not going to go along with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
When I go out, however I'm dressed, I try to be a decent human being. That's hard enough (and beyond some people's ability, to judge by some of what I hear and see.)