I think I handled this well...

I was traveling today and ,as I often do, was partially dressed; completely under-dressed with a nice skirt and male shirt, no makeup or wig.
So I stopped at a roadside fast food place for a drink and while the young man, probably 16 at the most, that brought me my drink was making my change, he obviously noticed how I was dressed. At least I noticed a dramatic change in the look on his face - kind of a curious/surprised look that I am sure a lot of us have seen. So, I ask him "wondering why I'm wearing a skirt?" He replied, a little shyly, "Um, yes sir." I answered, "Well, I think they are comfortable and besides, it would be inappropriate to let people see my panties."

Poor kid almost dropped his tray.
I may have marred him for life. I guess I should be ashamed but I laughed to myself all the way home...

:hugs:

Shelby

A lovely & amusing story, thank you for sharing.

Good for YOU!...sometimes we are better off adding some humor to make our point!

What the heck does wearing a skirt have to do with letting people see your panties. That statement just confirmed that men in skirts are pervs. You should have ignored his shock. You know my niece works at Arie in our home town mall. She says that there are a couple of creepy men who come in with skirts and tube socks just to fondle the underwear. If you want society to accept cross dressers and trans people stop acting like pervs. Be respectful and you will get respect back. I totally didn't think your story was funny in the least. :(

When I said this:

In any community, it's important to think of the whole community. The choices that an individual makes can and will affect us all.

In this thread:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post3356546

The actions of the OP will negatively impact CD's in the area. That teenage kid will tell all his friends about this encounter and it will snowball from there. Especially at the kids' school. For me, crossdressing is about finding peace and happiness with who I am and expressing my feminine side to others and I do that without being an exhibitionist. I would rather have people get to know me so they can try to understand why I dress the way that I do. Most of the time, people are nice to me and considerate of my feelings and I respect them for that. Shelby, you could of handled the situation entirely different.

Cute story; good for you.
Rader

I think it's extremely important for us to represent our community well. It's okay to be a dude in a skirt, and it's okay to pass as a woman. It's not okay to start talking about your panties with anyone or be an exhibitionist, not even another dude, not even to another CD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShelbyDawn

it would be inappropriate to let people see my panties."

Poor kid almost dropped his tray.
I may have marred him for life. I guess I should be ashamed but I laughed to myself all the way home...

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Your comment was completely uncalled for. This kind of behavior is what gives CD, TG, and TS a reputation of being perverts.

Word to the wise. When you're a member of a persecuted group, it's extremely important for us to be on our best behavior to show the world that we deserve respect. When we do things that are disrespectful, perverted, mean, cruel, violent, or engage in any of the sins of the persecuting group, we're allowing the other side to win. If we act no different than the established persecuting group, people are going to side with the persecuting group simply because they are more established than we are.

Sadly, a few members of all persecuted groups are guilty of poor behavior, and ruin it for the entire group.
- Crossdressers who act like perverts and exhibitionists
- Transsexuals who commit violent crimes
- Women who take all their husband's money in a divorce
- Poor people who can't afford a car who jaywalk and think jaywalking is funny
- Members of one minority group who are racist against another minority group

All of the above examples are behavior which fuels bigotry.

As members of a persecuted group, we really, really need to step up our behavior.

Oh, and remember, one person does ruin it for all. Our teachers always told us that in school, and the sad truth is, this holds true in real life.

This is proof that we should march to our own drummer, that there is no bigger picture, no community to be concerned with.

Or not. :(

Did he nearly drop the tray because you were a man in women's clothes or did he nearly drop it because a customer and person he didn't know offered him a mental picture of them in their underwear without any invitation to do so?

Kudos to you for bravery and willingness to address an obviously confusing situation. (I would have just left it with a casual "I like skirts.") Humor will vary from person to person, but I would take note of the responses you've gotten here.

I agree with the majority of the comments. If we wish to be accepted in life to be able to wear what we choose to wear then we need to set a good example. While confirming the attire is ok, I think it was a little over the top to add the panties comment.

Poor kid, but he still may have a lot to learn about life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michelle789

I think it's extremely important for us to represent our community well. It's okay to be a dude in a skirt, and it's okay to pass as a woman. It's not okay to start talking about your panties with anyone or be an exhibitionist, not even another dude, not even to another CD.

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My sentiments, exactly.

Why on earth do you get pleasure out of shocking people? Are you craving for attention?

Well, certainly not the response I expected but point taken.

Were u flirting with him, Shelby? Maybe unconsiously? If I were him, I would have thot that.

Personally, I find discussions to do with panties, including on line here, to be unseemly and inappropriate.

Well I wonder if you were playing with fire there.
Not being there it is difficult to judge the situation.
Whatever floats your boat.

I would of loved to had been the fly on the wall! Then I could help judge you and decide weather this was good humor or done in bad taste! Every situation is different!

Not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.

Tracii,
I think I contributed too much to the conversation as well. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShelbyDawn

Well, certainly not the response I expected but point taken.

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I agree with you Shelby, however as confused as I have been lately I do see both sides. At the first read I laughed and thought good for you, after reading the comments I do believe the panties where over the top. I guess if we want to be comfortable in the world we have to allow the world to be comfortable with us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

Not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.

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or a 6 foot Swede

You have a right to wear anything you want and a right to say anything you want, but with these rights comes responsibility. Talking about your panties might be OK among friends but it wasn't really called for in this situation. You could have been asked to leave.

It bothers me when crossdressers call attention to themselves in public because it reinforces the immage that crossdressers are perverts. If we want to be accepted or even tolerated, we need to just act like normal people in public.

I don't go out much, but when I do, I'm doing my best at acting and dressing like a woman my age at the place and time of day. I'm not trying to call attention to myself or shock anyone.

So no, I don't think you handled this well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShelbyDawn

Poor kid almost dropped his tray.
I may have marred him for life. I guess I should be ashamed but I laughed to myself all the way home...

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Seriously?

How very interesting

Then you wonder why people think the worst of us.

No, you didn't handle it well. You went way over the common courtesy line. He didn't ask why you were in a skirt (and if he did it would have been him over the line) and your underwear comment was just to get a reaction.

What you do in the privacy of your life (at home ie) is up to you...but if you are dressing for attention, you should at least be more controlled.

This is another fine example of how things are taken way out of context here most of the time. Shelby stated that IF she wasn't wearing a skirt that the world would see her panties. The same if ANYONE weren't wearing their pants/jeans/whatever the world would see their under things.

She didn't say "hey little boy, come see my panties" so I don't see how she is getting labelled an exhibitionist. She was being humorous as the kid noticed she was wearing a skirt. So to represent this community we have to lose our sense of humor?

The first two responders saw the humor in the OP's post....then the minute the next poster miss reads the post or takes what she will from it....it becomes a perversion instead of a humorous story. Then everyone jumps on that band wagon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

What the heck does wearing a skirt have to do with letting people see your panties.

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Nothing. The Op never said she wanted people to see her panties, she said just the opposite.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

That statement just confirmed that men in skirts are pervs.

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Thank you for painting the whole community with that bold brush. I for one, do not appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

You know my niece works at Arie in our home town mall. She says that there are a couple of creepy men who come in with skirts and tube socks just to fondle the underwear.

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That is just her opinion from an observation from a distance and the label she chose to give them. She really doesn't know what they are or are not doing as she probably hasn't offered them an ounce of customer service to find out otherwise.

Maybe they are CD and looking through the panties for a certain style or maybe even their size. It tends to happen when most stores have a barrel/table full of panties and the customer has to dig through them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

If you want society to accept cross dressers and trans people stop acting like pervs.

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While I am sure there are some that do act like perverts as you state, There are some that do this just to get their rocks off, and their are some that do this for other activities, I am also sure they are not part of this community.

I have never seen a thread that stated as the topic "I flashed a crowd", "I fondled every pair of panties I could find" or "is everyone perverted like me".

This community is about help, support, and trying to gain some acceptance in today's world. It's a place for like minded individuals who thought they were alone in this to come together and talk and try to figure this out for themselves.

Painting all of us with your "perv brush" sure isn't helping anyone nor is it bringing anything positive to this community.
I am sure if anyone pulled out one of their brushes and painted you in the same light as you have painted each and every one of us, we would be condemned.

And yet your tag line is: "Don't ask for "honest opinions" if you can't handle an honest answer."

Well the OP got honest answers. And you posted your honest answer. Maybe someone should post a poll.

Joanne, she didn't paint every one as "pervs". She said the perception is that way, and mostly due to the way the OP did handle this. The way it should have been handled is to say "thank you" and drive away. Bringing the panties in was a statement designed specifically to get a reaction...and it did. But now that attendant will think A) every male in a skirt who comes here wants to talk about their underwear, or B) I have less respect for TGs now because they are looking for attention, or C) creeps come in all shapes and sizes.

The OP would have done well to not say anything or to have at least stopped at "I like it".

Kitty makes a strong point here. How we present does make an impression and as I said before, when you dress for shock value, you put all the community in that boat. Her points were supportive in that she was trying to convey that certain behaviors (no matter what you wear or who you are) imprint certain ideas.

I fail to see where my tag line has much to do with Kitty painting us all with a very bold brush. She said, and I quote:

That statement just confirmed that men in skirts are pervs.

So if I wear a skirt, to cover my panties, and tell anyone that may question as to why I am wearing a skirt it is to cover my panties, I really want to show them my panties or that I am a perv? She painted each and every one of us with that brush. We say it all the time around here that we all walk different paths, have different levels of dressing....and I can't think of anyone on this forum that doesn't wear a skirt....so are we all pervs?

while she may consider her response an "honest opinion", I found it insulting to everything we do here, who we are, and what we are about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Joanne, she didn't paint every one as "pervs". She said the perception is that way,

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Funny, I don't see the word "perception" any where in her post. I do see "That statement just confirmed that men in skirts are pervs."

If you "fail to see", read it again. And again if necessary.

From the original post: "So, I ask him "wondering why I'm wearing a skirt?" "

That in itself seems perverted. When I go to a restaurant I don't ask the server if he or she wonders about my clothing. Most people don't. The kid didn't ask about the skirt, the OP made an issue of it by asking the question.

Maybe Shelby got extremely nervous at that point because the kid's facial expression change when he clearly did notice. I know for a fact that you can't read emotion or intent from a forum post. Anyone one of us that are brave enough to head out in the world as who we are may or may not act the same way if all of a sudden fear grips us. Maybe Shelby's wording is a bit off all around? who really knows?

I am not saying that shelby is right or wrong for the way she handle it. Yes, she probably should have not even mentioned it until the server did BUT when you are gripped with fear, your first reaction is to protect yourself so she made a humorous situation out of it. She never said do you want to see my panties which everyone is trying to turn this post into.

I am saying that Kitty is wrong for painting us all with a bold brush. The same brush that her niece painted two possible sister's with because they were looking at panties a store was selling.

Personally I found it amusing when I 1st read it too... as Joanne did, I'm wondering if it's the word panties that got everything all bunched up (pardon the pun), if the OP had said "so no one could see my Hanes!" would it have been seen for what it was in the 1st place, an ill attempt to ease the situation.

When you notice someone's view changes mid contact you take one of 2 actions, you try to defuse the situation or attack...

Unfortunate for the OP the way it was worded one can take it either way... apparently!

Nobody starts up a conversation by talking about their underwear which is exactly how I feel this conversation went down. Nobody cares what you are wearing underneath your clothes, unless you tell them. Which that information should be kept between SO's. The way that he said it, yes "he" a man in a skirt is just a man in a skirt, especially since he didn't even try to pass as a woman. Okay, anyway the way that he said it implied that he would rather just wear panties an nothing else. IMHO, he came off as a perv.

I see this thread getting locked soon. No sense in arguing about it.

Shelby, sorry about all the bruises, I am sure they will go away in time. Personally, I chuckled after reading your response. Not sure when we ALL were required to represent "the community" but I am not sure I want that mantle.

Robyn

really Joanne? You think the OP was in such a state of fear that they laughed all the way home about it?

I know there has been a lot of piling on here but it amazes me that you're not seeing the fact that a grown man going around talking about his panties at a fast food restaurant to a teenager isn't probably a poor choice. The poor kid probably thought he was being hit on!

How many times at a fast food restaurant do you talk to your server about your underclothes? the answer is never lol.

I wager after you left the security video footage was played over and over again to much enjoyment of the staff. Hardly a comment I would have made to a minor. It would not surprise me if your picture is now on the employee bulletin board.

~Joanne~, please give us a little credit. I doubt there is any group-think going on here. The statement made was creepy at face value, or at least that's my perception, my own conclusion after reading the little ditty without reading a single comment thereafter.

The very first thing that came to mind after reading the OP while trying to reconcile creepy with humorous was the Peter Graves scene in Airplane where he says to a young boy "Ever see a grown man naked?". Creepy, but in the context of that movie, funny as heck (and probably couldn't be in a movie these days). Dude in a skirt going through the drive-through talking to a teenager at the window about his panties, creepy no matter which what spin one puts on it.

I think OP got the message and hopefully took it to heart not to go there again, or at least not to write about it wish such glee and pride. At the end of the day this thing probably would have gone away with much more of a whimper but all this talk about whether or not such behavior creates and/or perpetuates a stereotypical perception that our community is rife with perversion requires response. Right or wrong, that is exactly what happened. There is a very high chance that the young man at the window has told all of his co-workers, friends, family, etc. about the PERV at his window. Not about a good experience where he was enlightened to learn that some GM's can present wearing something feminine with some semblance of dignity.

Ladies,
this has a been a lightning bolt thread. We all have different opinions about what was said, what our roles in society we play as crossdressers, and how we are represented.
I do think the comment was inappropriate and the young man's opinion about t-girls and crossdressers will likely be influenced by what was said.

Let's please stop beating up the original poster. We are, ultimately, a sisterhood and a site for support.

Many of us are upset about this comment and perhaps will damage our cause. We can't take back what was said. One person was likely influenced by another. This was a conversation between two people.

The wonderful thing about us is that many of us we feel we have to represent trans people and crossdressers to the rest of the world. We can't take back what was said, but we CAN educate others.

Over 1000 people have viewed this thread. If even half of us go out to the real world, and represent crossdressers the way we want to be represented, maybe we can change someone's opinion about us for the better. One of my goals when I go out is to talk to people. My hope is they go home, or go to work, or talk to a friend and say something like "I was chatting with this crossdresser today at Starbucks, and she was really nice."

Let's calm down, and go back to changing the world. ;)

Love, Hannah

Well said Hannah. I like your idea about chatting with others when you go out and it does work in educating people. I had a lovely chat with an elderly lady who read me at Starbucks last week. She wasn't rude, she just wanted to know why I choose to dress in women's clothing. We chatted over coffee and I told her all about me, I was married, I have been in the military for 32 years and have completed several combat tours in Afghanistan. She was shocked as she was a believer in the old stereotypes and did not realize that CDers have lives and are productive members of society. When her husband came to get her, she introduced me as a "nice young girl . . . Isha" and left. I think she walked away with a different vision of CDing.

Hugs

Isha

Hannah & Isha, you have both stated the moral of the story very well.

If you take the emotion and politics out of it, you basically flirted with him.

Its not the end of the world...isn't the bottom line to say you probably won't do it that way again.

Just to add a bit of closure to this amazing display of how seriously some of us take ourselves...
First, the young man in question and the two other employees of the fast food establishment he obviously outed me too were all laughing and waving at me as I pulled out. Proving that
Second, the story was funny unless you chose to find a reason to be offended.
Third, while I appreciate all the support, both public and private, it is not really necessary. If I have anything to offer the ladies in this forum, whom I love and respect almost universally, it is that your opinion of me is none of my business. It is just not my garbage.
If we would all stop worrying so much about what we think other people are thinking and saying about us, we would all be much happier and to be honest, most of the time what "they" are thinking and saying about is absolutely nothing because that have too much of their own stuff to deal with.

Thanks you all for you input and support. I count on you for a sense of balance and a base of sanity to operate. Just don't expect em to agree with you all the time.

:hugs:
Shelby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShelbyDawn

Just to add a bit of closure to this amazing display of how seriously some of us take ourselves...
First, the young man in question and the two other employees of the fast food establishment he obviously outed me too were all laughing and waving at me as I pulled out.

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I'm glad you witnessed that reaction, but that's not how you described it in your first post. You said that he nearly dropped his tray and that you may have scarred him for life.

If you had told about the smiling and waving in the beginning, then I'm sure your approval rating would have been higher. :)

The more I think about this thread the creepier it gets. A man puts on a skirt and walks up to a sixteen yeear old boy and starts talking about his skirt and panties. He's lucky they didn't call the police on him.

How would you react if some guy did this to your child? What will this kid and his friends think the next time they see a crossdresser, most likely one who is acting normally and just trying to get by as a female?

It's wrong to defend this action and there's no taking it back. It happened and the OP went home and bragged about it on the Internet.

Creepy!

I would hope that that child would handle it like a man and let it pass, later share it with his friends and get a good laugh out of it. Today's 16 year olds are like the 20 years when I was 16. Times have changed and so have out youth. I still do not understand why so many here are making this a Federal case out of a simple single moment in time that the participants thought was funny. Call the police? You have to be kidding, why?? Get a life people.

Shelby, some of us take these things seriously because we are out in the real world, whether part time (me) or full time (many others) interacting with other people. Those people often rely upon a combination of perceptions and stereotypes to come to conclusions about who and what we are. I'm sorry, the fact that the young men laughing and waving as you drove away proves nothing in your scenario. They were likely laughing AT you and I would bet they continued to do so after you were gone. Their getting a good chuckle doesn't make any of this right. Just re-read the original tale, is that any way to talk to a 16 year old boy???

Remember, many of us are read as being trans-whatever. I would not want to be the full time transitioning woman to walk into that establishment in your wake. Perceived as trans, I'd more than likely be lumped in as part of "creep is as creepy does".

I guess there are two ways to look at this and I have a hard time seeing that standing up for decent portrayals in our community amounts to a federal case. If this is the behavior we wish to admire and encourage for the betterment of transgendered women in our society, who am I to try to convince anyone otherwise?

Pretty sure post #43 is all made up just to try and make you look good and those that disagreed with you look bad... well it didn't work because you still look bad and what you did was wrong and you know it.

Next time, think before you speak and with that, this thread is done!