Wife issues - advice needed.

Hi all, it's my first post here. Sorry if I'm too verbose, but it's difficult to express. As a matter of fact I've never told anyone about my issues but my first girlfriend and then my wife. Feel free to skip to the actual questions at the bottom if you like.

I've felt the urge to crossdress since early childhood but it only really happened first time when I was 20 with my first girlfriend. As you can imagine it was hell just to figure out what I am and accept my desires as integral part of me and not some mental illness. It was before internet, so information was not available. I'm straight and CD part of me is not dominant, and relatively small. Ideally, all I would like to do is to dress up discreetly and occasionally (but more or less regularly) and have some fun with my wife while doing it. You can probably already guess what the problem is... But let me continue. So, I don't want to do it full-time, I'm not transgender, I'm happy being a man and a father and so on. However crossdressing is a part of me and it is important for me, possibly more so because it's very rare. I can't be entirely happy if I have to totally suppress it, and my wife understands that.

I have told my wife about my desires and fantasies soon after we started dating, she was shocked but she is very caring so she didn't shut me out and for 15 years since then she tries to be accepting and very occasionally agrees to participate and help me dress up and even do some kinky stuff in bed. She does it because she loves me and wants me to be happy, but she's just coping with it at best occasions, and it can make her sad and unhappy at worst. I try as much as I can to make the experience enjoyable for her, but unsurprisingly it looks like I'm failing. We love each other very much, and try to make each other happy.

Recently when she saw a groupon for "Rocky Horror" live performance on my screen (I didn't even dare to ask her about going) to my astonishment she suggested we go. It was my first time dressed out in public (while having a decent excuse for doing that). It was wildly exciting and exhilarating. She liked the show, was cheerful, and I was completely happy. However when I mentioned later that I'd like to repeat that experience in some way or other, she became very sad and said that the problem with me is that no matter what I have I always want more of it and better, and I can never be satisfied with what I have, that she can never make me entirely happy because of this. In CD side of things she is right because I feel "starved" and I always interpret every good or new experience that we share as a step towards acceptance and leading to something better, but it's not.

I had 15 years to realize that it's not going to get much better, and that every time I talk to her about doing anything I just make her unhappy. And making her unhappy is the worst thing I can imagine. Each time I dread the moment I try to ask her for the next "happening" and every serious talk we have about CD is excruciating for both of us. We don't fight, but there is no solution in sight. Last night I was particularly sad with a case of "winter blah" as they say, and we ended up with another sad and awful talk, she was in tears and even said some not very nice things to me, which almost never happens. Things like crossdressing being ugly and she is surprised that I with my sense of aesthetics don't understand it (well, I do understand it, women naturally look better dressed the same way, and no matter how I try I would look weird, but it doesn't change anything for me).

Here is the actual dilemma I need advice about: she feels jealous about this side of me, almost as if I'd be seeing another woman. So she is strongly against me dressing up on my own in any shape or form. The problem is she doesn't like to do it with me either, and even when she agrees to participate, it's emotionally difficult both for me (because I realize she is doing it just for me and doesn't like it at all, and I have a huge guilt complex because of this) and for her (because she has to go way beyond her comfort zone and it's still hard for her to accept this). So it's a vicious circle - can't do it with her, can't do it without her. Lying is not an option - her intuition and perception for detail are amazing, and I'm not a good liar, so she would always find out. Besides, I'd feel awful lying to her, we never do that to each other.

I can't continue like that, something has to happen. I can't force her to like it - and honestly there isn't much to like... I'm afraid to even raise the issue after our last talk, because it makes her so sad and now even a bit angry (that's new). Even before yesterday when she agreed to participate, realizing the damage I'm causing to her well-being sometimes killed much of the enjoyment for me. Now, I wouldn't even know how to ask...

The only options I seem to have are the following:

1. Continue trying to suppress the urges and fantasies and do my best to suffer in silence - which eventually makes me depressed and in turn her as well, because she hates it when I'm unhappy (same applies to me). I'm afraid it's not very feasible, I couldn't last for very long...

2. Just force the issue and say that I have to do it and she has to let me to do it on my own if she's not happy doing it with me, basically implying that I have to disregard her feelings and act on my own (not sure how exactly BTW) and she would just have to accept it. Nothing like that has ever happened with us in terms of forcing the issues and applying a strong pressure, I'm afraid that it could strain our relationship to the verge of breaking, which I would never ever want to happen.

Neither option seems good for our marriage. We love each other and have kids, so splitting up is just not an option. We have to deal with this somehow. Not doing anything just eats me inside...

What should I do? What would you do in this situation? What compromises can you think of that I haven't? What arrangements can exist that we haven't thought of? I would appreciate any advice, because I guess the problem is far from unique, maybe other people have managed to deal with it more successfully...

I realize that it's not likely that any advice can really help, but decided to try asking for it anyway - maybe at least there would be some ideas we could talk over and there would be some progress...

I would respond to any ebb and flow of acceptance in a cautious and caring way.
When there is a positive flow do not go overboard, never ask "how do I look or what turns you on".

When things are negative just do as your wife desires.
Things will happen naturally as long as you don't push it.

Yes, it does take patience.
A lot of it.

Almoni maybe seeing a therapist would help you both.

Wow, Almoni, I'm so sorry to hear about your dilemma. Truth is, you could be one of thousands who have or will write almost the same story. It is good to hear that you have been able, at some level, to have your wife included in your activities. The level of stress you are both feeling is not surprising. It sounds as if it is the result of a lack of understanding in both of you. I don't mean that in a negative way at all.

This is a situation where ignorance is almost never bliss. I doubt it you will ever seriously consider giving up on your feminine self. You might try, but you sound like so many others of us who have this completely ingrained in all you are. On the other hand, it is completely evident that you love your wife. So how do you do both? This is going to sound trite, you do it very carefully. The balancing act necessary in many relationships like yours is critical to the survival of your marriage and your identity.

I agree with Crosstina that you will probably benefit by seeing a professional therapist. I almost never recommend that, by the way. Shrinks are shrinks are shrinks. You have to be very careful who you choose to talk to--make sure, if you decide to see one, that they are well-versed in gender identity issues. I can tell you after many years of dealing with these very people, that you (and your wife should she decide to go with you or see a therapist serparately) will probably be more comfortable with a female. That might not make sense right now, but it will later on if you go that route.

Whether or not you ever see a professional, remember to put your wife first--as much as that is possible for a crossdresser. More than anything, she needs to understand how much you love her regardless of your predilections. Search and read posts here as often as you can. This is a place where you can find solace, get information, and sometimes just have a good laugh.

Your situation is identical to mine, even down to the encouragement at first and then the jealousy. Neither of your two options at the end are to be considered and will destroy your marriage.

Here's what I do, for what it's worth: my wife knows I like to dress but we no longer ever speak about it. I keep no feminine clothes in the house but instead, whenever I feel I need to, I go to see a professional dresser in another town where I keep my clothes. She does my make-up, makes me presentable, and sometimes I just hang around her house or on occasions go out on the town. It's expensive but nobody gets hurt.

I hope this helps.

L

If you are pushing 50 then I have to assume that she is also. A mid life re-evaluation for both of you is happening. Life is not measuring up to what you thought it would be and you haven't done what you wanted to do when you were younger. You mentioned kids. This has been her focus for sometime now and they are or starting to show indenpence from her and you. I'm in the middle of this also. The best thing I can suggest is get her and yourself involved in something outside the home away from you and the kids. Something that is her own. That way she has something else to think about.

Brenda

Welcome. Couples of all kinds have issues that build up over time. This is often because none of us is perfect at communicating. I would suggest that since the two of you have not been able to resolve this matter together, that you seek the advice of a competent professional counselor. He or she can help each of you communicate your feelings and needs and keep the tone constructive and productive.

Hi Almoni,

Firstly welcome to the forum. That is quite the first post and dilemma.

I really believe you and your wife are heading for a "don't ask, don't tell (DADT)" relationship. Specifically she knows about it but does not want to know. There is nothing wrong with such a relationship as many gals here make this work within their marriage. Basically, you do your thing at agreed upon times but your wife will not partake, want to see or hear about it. However, if this is the route to follow, you will need to discuss it between yourself to set guidelines and boundaries. This would not be forcing the issue, this would be you saying, I need to do this to make me happy but I also am cognizant of your needs to not see it.

You have to look at this from your wife's point of view in that she may be seeing the man she married being swallowed whole by this new persona so I would not push for greater acceptance until she is ready to move in that direction (and she may never be prepared to move that way). If she is willing, a marriage therapist who specializes in gender identity issues might be a good option. The good thing is that she has stood by you for 15 years and you both seem to care deeply for one another.

Hugs

Isha

Almoni,
You are in a difficult situation, one which I was accustomed to in my first marriage. I think the one thing you have going for you is your honesty and the fact that your wife knew while you were dating. That is a big plus that she married you knowing who you are and what you do.

It is understandable that she has feelings that there is nothing that she can do to keep you satisfied, but there are surely a lot of worry thoughts going on in her head also. Unless the both of you can get everything out on the table and come to some sort of agreement or compromise that will work for both of you in terms of happiness, what is acceptable and comfortable, and both of your needs, unfortunately both of you are going to be unfulfilled and be surpressing both of your needs and desires. It is not a healthy situation. There is also a possibility that there is more than the dressing underlying also.

A therapist who deals with marriage and CD/Transgender issues should be your top priority. There are things about your dressing that you might or might not understand but the fact is regardless, she does not have to or will never understand when it comes to that. What she NEEDS to understand that it has nothing to do with her ability to keep you satisfied, it has to do with what you need to keep you satisfied and where the acceptable middle is for both of you. She NEEDS to hear from a professional exactly what she is dealing with and what she should expect.

I wish you all the best in finding the solutions which can work for both of you, going in to this you both have to be willing to put a lot of work in!

Been there. Quite a few differences between your situation and mine, but still the same plot. I didn't think there was any way we'd split up, either. My marriage lasted 30 years.

Simply, you've got to live without it or she's got to live with it, or you might find out that splitting up IS an option. Getting her to go to a counselor for something she perceives as your problem and your problem only will be a hurdle unto itself, but if you don't do it you're either going to continue to suffer through without it or learn to lie better.

Maybe one of those "marriage weekend" things would be a step in the right direction. Seems like those at least get couples talking directly about things. Looking at this from the advantage of (bad) experience, I wish I'd done exactly that. If that turns out to be a good experience, that opens the door to further counseling.

In theory marriage and relationships should be a straight forward thing but how often are they actually that way , you have two people who have come together in the hope that in some way you act,think, like and dislike as one but unless you are a Vulcan and do some sort of mind meld it will never happen so the next best thing to hope for is that both will take into account each others needs likes and dislikes and come to some sort of compromise when things get to deep for one to handle unfortunately this does not always happen for many reasons because of individual personality's and beliefs throw into that someone dressing in clothes that the other thinks should be for one particular gender (let alone gender issues) then things can get upsetting for both .
It is funny how clothes can cause so much conflict and it is so easy to say that they are just clothes but to some they represent far more than that and so easy to criticize or dislike what someone else is wearing because that is not what you personally like .
I wonder if the first step in a marriage/relationship is to explain what the clothes mean to you personally and how they make you feel then ask the other person ( wife /so) what they represent or mean to them and then see if there is a way forward that will help you both thought this dilemma , it is not so much as getting one to change their mind but more of understanding that two people at some point will have different minds and accepting that there has to be a compromise somewhere on both sides for it to work .

I think Lara has nailed it. Lucy's idea is one option, but not for you, because yo say your wife is observant, you suck at lying, and your wife is already jealous about your dressing and you don't need to add an actual other woman into that!

I would research local therapists, can you give us your area? Some on here may be able to point you to a good one. When you suggest this to your wife, point out that you, need some help to see this from something other than the 2 viewpoints you already know.

Thank you for all the replies. Food for thought. Just to clarify: she more or less understands what this is about and what it means. In some respect she figured it out from my desires and fantasies faster than I did, including autogynephilia (or the similar idea) mentioned here. She doesn't refuse to discuss it and except for the last talk doesn't hold me guilty of anything or accuses me of anything. Obviously it doesn't mean she likes it. She never will and it's not her fault. But the problem is that because of the negative emotions she experiences I feel increasingly guilty to convince her to participate in this, or show any initiative at all, and obviously she's not initiating this either, so often nothing happens for months. And because she's jealous of me doing it alone without her - I can't do it either. We arrived at a same stalemate again, that I'm really suffering to be in, but she is quite OK with. I suspect that she thinks just acknowledging it, having done it before, and talking about it makes it OK (and I agree that it's a lot for her to process already), but for me it is obviously problematic because as a result nothing happens and as Douglas Adams wrote "nothing continued to happen". I'm afraid to hurt her, but I keep hurting myself in the process.

Maybe we could see a therapist. I'm sure she would go if I suggest it. We talked about it before. The problem is that she knows about me as much as I know about myself, and I know what she is going through, so I doubt that a therapist would be able to tell us anything new. I guess we could still try...

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Originally Posted by Brenda79135

If you are pushing 50 then I have to assume that she is also.

Brenda

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I'm actually pushing 40, and kids are still small. Your suggestion is still wise, I always kept encouraging her to take on any hobby and supported anything she would want to do just for her own enjoyment. It borders with another problem we had: I have several hobbies but she has none and never had one, so it was difficult for her to understand that I need time for something beside her and our family. We mostly dealt with it, besides I have so little spare time now that I can't afford to spend a lot on my hobbies. We still couldn't find anything she would like to take on. She has less spare time than I do and no specific desires for a hobby beside watching a good movie together or spend an evening with friends.

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Originally Posted by UNDERDRESSER

I would research local therapists, can you give us your area? Some on here may be able to point you to a good one. When you suggest this to your wife, point out that you, need some help to see this from something other than the 2 viewpoints you already know.

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Toronto area - Mississauga/Oakville/Burlington would work as a therapist location.

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Originally Posted by Joanne f

it is not so much as getting one to change their mind but more of understanding that two people at some point will have different minds and accepting that there has to be a compromise somewhere on both sides for it to work .

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We both understand that, but we fail to find such a compromise...

I certainly empathize with the "Catch-22" you're experiencing. My wife and I need to be honest and keep our lines of communication open but I know she feels under pressure about my cross dressing and neither of us is able to initiate a conversation without fear of hurting the other. The fact that I don't know where I am going with it just makes it more mysterious to both of us. One thing that has helped us keep it on the table while keeping the pressure lower is my forwarding to her some of the posts I see in this forum, especially the funny ones but also those that echo what I think her own feelings are, so she doesn't feel so alone. Reading the Loved Ones section of the forum has helped me to understand some of the feelings she has but has difficulty expressing. It's a work in progress. My thanks to you all for sharing your experiences here.

Almoni, I have to conclude that after a lifetime of dealing with the unshakable inclination to express myself in other than male presentation, the only thing that stands out is the need to have all priorities in proper perspective. Raising children is the only thing we have to do correctly. Everything else we do points to that. Children are our statement to the future after we are gone and our primary goal is to advance our genetics into the future. But, we need to be happy along the way. You and your wife need to find the correct balance to accommodate your gender exploration and her acceptance of it. A good therapist is the key! I've been there. Key word, good. And, if your CD is a deal breaker, prepare yourself to pay alimony and child support. Crossdressing is a fantasy behavior nestled into a reality where it's not necessarily welcome.

When I was younger I was always wanting my wife to participate somehow with my cross dressing. It was an awkward situation. Early in our marriage BOTH of us discovered my attraction for women's clothing. It was strictly a playful bedroom thing. HOWEVER, that kindled a desire in my for more. When my wife found that I had progressed from a playful nightie to slip, bra and panty, we BOTH realized this was something more. That turned off any interest by her. I clearly understand her declination to participate. After the customary clearing of the air conversation; "No, I don't want to become a woman:" "No, I am not gay:" etc, we entered a DADT marriage. Along the way I wished she would buy me panties for my birthday. I think I was trying to gain some acceptance from her, because I felt I needed her validation of who I was. We did go shopping at Mervyn's for panties. It was a painful experience for her. With hindsight it bordered on spousal mental abuse. Then I realized I needed to STOP trying to seek her validation and respect her feelings. Once in a while she will find I had left out a bra or panty. She will put it in the wash closet by the dryer and tell me.

Frankly, based on my experience you need to stop pestering her for participation. You do not need to validate your cross dressing by tormenting her. Your posts suggest to me she has been trying to accommodate you at the cost of inflicting torment upon herself.

I suggest you find another outlet for your cross dressing. Sure, you can go to a therapist to validate what you and her seem to already acknowledge: She accepts the fact you NEED to cross dress, and, she does not want to willingly participate in that part of you. Perhaps, you need to attend a support group. I do not mean bar hopping. I mean meeting with other "ladies" and their spouses for dinner at a restaurant. If you do, then you need to clearly convey to your wife the nature of the activity, so she does not think ill of it.

Also, you and your wife need some couples time. This has nothing to do with cross dressing. If your wife is at home with young kids that can almost create a prison for her. Repetitious activity will kill a desire to do anything. Exhaustion. Take the initiative and drag her from the house. Create a date night for you and her with NO cross dressing. Get a neighbor or family member to babysit and take her overnight somewhere.

I know many women and men who do NOT have a hobby. Many women just want some time away from kids. They want attention. Sometimes the greatest luxury in a marriage is the opportunity to do absolutely nothing.

Above all, stop trying to get your wife to accept you on YOUR level. Frankly, you're way more fortunate than many cross dressers. She hasn't thrown you out the door. You need to respect her right to not participate. Forced accommodation is NOT willing accommodation.

Remind her that after 15 years.... "she became very sad and said that the problem with me is that no matter what I have I always want more of it and better, and I can never be satisfied with what I have" ... this doesn't hold true with her in your eyes.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is any discussion of what she might want sexually. It sounds like the two of you do have a sexual relationship -- when was the last time you sat down on a comfortable couch together, maybe with a glass of wine to relax you, and had a conversation about what sexual activities each of you would like more of? Most women get used to not getting what they want -- there's some position that works best for the woman, or some toy, or some fantasy they'd like to play out with the guy. But because it doesn't turn on the guy, the woman stops asking for that position, or toy, or fantasy.

I think it might help older couples to stop focusing so much on what generates the erection, and give more attention to the woman's pleasure (and satisfying it in ways that don't require an erection). If you can find things that she really really loves, then she may be appreciative of your efforts and happy to give back to you in the way you want most (that is, by supporting your cross-dressing). But as long as she feels that her own needs as a sexual woman are unimportant to you, she's not going to feel generous toward you.

I could be totally off-base here, but I just wanted to bring it up. In my own marriage, I have certain needs (for BDSM), and I appreciate the times when my husband makes an effort to go there for me. And in turn, that makes me more understanding of his own particular needs.

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Originally Posted by Laura Collette

...neither of us is able to initiate a conversation without fear of hurting the other...

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I know exactly how you feel...

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Originally Posted by CarlaWestin

...if your CD is a deal breaker...

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For me it is definitely not. I'm prepared to make sacrifices and I did, not engaging in CD as much as I could and not bringing it up for as long as I could. If it means I have to live without it for us to stay together - I will try. She's not demanding it, she is sad that I can't by fully happy without it, that I need it for happiness, that her is not fully enough, and I can certainly understand her. She doesn't want anything but me, so why anything but her is not enough for me?

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

Frankly, based on my experience you need to stop pestering her for participation. You do not need to validate your cross dressing by tormenting her. Your posts suggest to me she has been trying to accommodate you at the cost of inflicting torment upon herself.

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I would be OK with DADT arrangement if it would mean she would feel better. But she definitely does not want that and refuses to agree to that kind of a compromise. If it has to happen, she wants it to be with her, but then she does not want for it to happen at all and if I'm lucky and she happens to be in the right mood she might be OK with it, but other times she's in emotional turmoil, and I worry every time that I hurt her. It is kind of a catch-22.

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

Also, you and your wife need some couples time.

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Yes, I have definitely not been proactive enough about getting some "couples time". We do this, but I should generate more ideas and be more active for this. I'm a kind of a "home person" and she comes up with ideas to go out more often than me. Thanks for reminding me. That's something I have to work on.

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Originally Posted by Cheryl T

Remind her that after 15 years.... "she became very sad and said that the problem with me is that no matter what I have I always want more of it and better, and I can never be satisfied with what I have" ... this doesn't hold true with her in your eyes.

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Not sure if I got your meaning correctly (English is not my native tongue), but I could not possibly demand anything more from her. She is almost perfect in all respects but this one, and this is not something that can be held against a person. I'm the one that has a "weirdness", she's not at fault about not fully embracing it. And I strongly suspect that a girl who would fully embrace it and find it interesting on the long run might not have a personality that suited me.

LOVE DOES NOT CONQUER ALL.

End of story.

Sounds to me like she has done the very best she can for 15 years but YOU insist on pushing it.

Maybe, you think because there is a Dating site on every corner, you can easily replace her. OR, you are not very picky and can easily replace her? Trust me, the plethora of Dating sites has actually made it harder in many ways to find a companion.

Sounds to me like she loves you very much and often bends far more than she is comfortable with. Even the strongest of materials can only bend so far or so many times before they break.

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Originally Posted by JessM.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is any discussion of what she might want sexually. It sounds like the two of you do have a sexual relationship -- when was the last time you sat down on a comfortable couch together, maybe with a glass of wine to relax you, and had a conversation about what sexual activities each of you would like more of?

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Yes, we talked about it many times. Without venturing into details, she's not interested in anything unusual, more than trying once out of curiosity. I try to be as good and attentive as possible in the ways that she likes. For the last years with kids that are not sleeping well there is not much time to get creative, but I hope we're OK in that department.

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Originally Posted by Wildaboutheels

Sounds to me like she has done the very best she can for 15 years but YOU insist on pushing it.

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No, I don't want to push her. Well, not really - I did a little, didn't we all? But definitely not after I realized that it can hurt her, and it does.

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Originally Posted by Wildaboutheels

Maybe, you think because there is a Dating site on every corner, you can easily replace her. OR, you are not very picky and can easily replace her? Trust me, the plethora of Dating sites has actually made it harder in many ways to find a companion.

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Nothing can be farther from the truth. I don't want anyone else, I love my wife very much. I'm ready to sacrifice everything for our relationship, including this part of me, but I'd rather find a compromise, and that's why I was asking for advice. I'd much prefer doing it with my wife, but it's getting so emotionally difficult for us both... I would be content doing it on my own to spare her feelings, however she doesn't want that either. So I don't know what to do anymore.

It's hard to add much to what has already been suggested here and would also suggest finding a therapist to talk to that understands gender issues. I'll reinforce on the issue you talked about here:

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Originally Posted by Almoni

Yes, I have definitely not been proactive enough about getting some "couples time". We do this, but I should generate more ideas and be more active for this. I'm a kind of a "home person" and she comes up with ideas to go out more often than me. Thanks for reminding me. That's something I have to work on.

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We also have young kids and struggle finding time (and babysitters!) to allow us to get away, but it's very needed when we get it. Often, it seems that it's only one of us that can go out and do something and if I take some of my time to dress and go out she can resent it somewhat if it seems to be happening more often than, or in lieu of, time spent together. So, we definitely need to work to find time together and make sure things stay balanced. Hopefully you can find a balance in your lives that works for both of you. Good luck!

-Bree

HI Almoni,

I'm a few years older than you and also a devoted husband to my wife and loving father to two young children. I know how difficult it can be to fit crossdressing into such a life. Given that your wife has known for 15 years, I don't see her attitudes changing much in the future. However, I think she is being very unfair with the "you can't dress without me" and "you can't dress with me" stance you describe. You need to be able to find a compromise that works for both of you. Find out what bothers/worries her most and discuss boundaries that you can both live with.

One final thing, how often do you do something thoughtful for her? Did you express your sincere gratitude after getting to go to RHPS? Maybe you need to give up some of your other hobbies so that the balance of time away from her and family is lessened? Or if you are in the stage where work and raising kids basically takes up the time that you are not sleeping, maybe you need to take a break, and approach it again when life has gotten easier. She may be more flexible if you do more "giving" and less "taking."

Jamie

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Originally Posted by JamieG

I think she is being very unfair with the "you can't dress without me" and "you can't dress with me" stance you describe.

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To be fair, she's not exactly saying that I can't do it with her. But because it's emotionally difficult for her and often makes her feel unhappy, it's getting excruciatingly difficult to even suggest it anymore. On some occasions we had a lot of fun and she seemed OK with it, but sometimes I feel that she is doing something unpleasant for her just to keep me happy, and obviously I feel very guilty. After last talk I'm just afraid to ask anymore because I don't want to hurt her. She's almost saying "you can't dress with me" but not quite. But she effectively creates such an edge around it that she might as well say it. And this situation is kind of going in circles.

Funny thing, this attitude also applies to clothes: "don't touch my clothes" coexists with "don't buy anything". Obviously sometimes there are exceptions, but this is the general sentiment...

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Originally Posted by JamieG

how often do you do something thoughtful for her? Did you express your sincere gratitude after getting to go to RHPS? Maybe you need to give up some of your other hobbies so that the balance of time away from her and family is lessened?

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I try to, as much as possible. I did "express my sincere gratitude" for RHPS to her several times and very emotionally, as I do every time she helps me, and also in unrelated issues I think I'm fairly grateful person and I don't take things for granted. Maybe my multiple thanks for an exciting event scared her even more. She fears that now that I've tasted more, I will want to expand it more and more and maybe she's afraid where it will end. Obviously I could not help but getting my hopes up a bit, because I never thought before she would agree for going out. But even before I could think of an idea for the next time, whenever it would happen, I got pretty much got shot down just trying to talk about CD in general.

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Originally Posted by JamieG

Maybe you need to give up some of your other hobbies so that the balance of time away from her and family is lessened? Or if you are in the stage where work and raising kids basically takes up the time that you are not sleeping, maybe you need to take a break, and approach it again when life has gotten easier. She may be more flexible if you do more "giving" and less "taking."

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Alas, "giving up my hobbies" is already what is happening essentially, as there is almost no time for any of that. CD would not require much time at all, so that's not much of an issue. But we're stressed more because of kids and work, but when will live "get easier"? I don't think it ever will, just some problems go and other come.
I will work on my "giving", now that we can at least go out at night sometimes I need to be more proactive and find occasions and places to do so and have more "couples time".

You seem to be saying that there's nothing she wants sexually. I'm dubious. I think most people just find it hard to talk about what they want. Maybe she'd like more backrubs, more footrubs, more foreplay, more orgasms for her? Does she ever get time without the kids, during the middle of the day on a Saturday, when she could explore erotica or something by herself when she's not already sleepy? Do you have a lock on your bedroom door so the two of you can get busy without worrying about the kids interrupting? I think women often don't have the drive to make sex a priority, but if you can help her figure out what really gives her intense pleasure, then you'll have a more willing partner to help you with your pleasure as well.

Alternately, since you already know that she would like you to be more active in planning date nights, really make that a priority. Find a regular babysitter -- it's a lot easier when you have a regular relationship with a sitter for Friday nights, than when you try to find someone for a one-time thing. If you can't afford that, then find another couple in a similar situation, and exchange babysitting with them each weekend. Yes, that's a lot of kids in one house, but over time the kids will learn to play together, and meanwhile both couples will be able to go out twice a month.

The point is to really put more effort into stuff that she likes -- increase the number of date nights you have, until it feels like a happy routine, not a rare treat. Don't expect an immediate pay-off, but in less than six months, if you have a strong relationship, she should notice that she feels better, and be looking for ways to make you happy too.

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Originally Posted by JessM.

You seem to be saying that there's nothing she wants sexually. I'm dubious. I think most people just find it hard to talk about what they want. Maybe she'd like more backrubs, more footrubs, more foreplay, more orgasms for her? Does she ever get time without the kids, during the middle of the day on a Saturday, when she could explore erotica or something by herself when she's not already sleepy? Do you have a lock on your bedroom door so the two of you can get busy without worrying about the kids interrupting? I think women often don't have the drive to make sex a priority, but if you can help her figure out what really gives her intense pleasure, then you'll have a more willing partner to help you with your pleasure as well.

Alternately, since you already know that she would like you to be more active in planning date nights, really make that a priority. Find a regular babysitter -- it's a lot easier when you have a regular relationship with a sitter for Friday nights, than when you try to find someone for a one-time thing. If you can't afford that, then find another couple in a similar situation, and exchange babysitting with them each weekend. Yes, that's a lot of kids in one house, but over time the kids will learn to play together, and meanwhile both couples will be able to go out twice a month.

The point is to really put more effort into stuff that she likes -- increase the number of date nights you have, until it feels like a happy routine, not a rare treat. Don't expect an immediate pay-off, but in less than six months, if you have a strong relationship, she should notice that she feels better, and be looking for ways to make you happy too.

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Oh, she has drive :-) I meant she doesn't want anything unusual, not "nothing sexually". She's not shy to tell me what she wants but it never hurts to ask again and again and try to improve so that's good advice. We do have locks in our bedroom and we have a live-in nanny. We almost couldn't go out before because smaller baby didn't sleep well and needed breastfeeding when she woke up, so we were limited to very short time out and quite nervous. Just a few days ago baby stopped breastfeeding and now our nanny can handle her, so it opens up occasional opportunities for us to go out for longer time, to a restaurant or a concert etc. So I will make it a priority, that's good advice too. If I will be proactive and make sure she has enough attention, who knows, she might warm up to something more. At least she won't feel "neglected" and maybe will be less jealous for potential CD activity.

Now, I'm only hearing this from your point of view, but my understanding of this thread is your wife is not very empathic where other peoples viewpoints are involved. She has her family at the heart of her world, and doesn't need "hobbies" outside of that. All well and good, and I don't say that there is anything wrong with that, but she simply can't see your need for anything, beyond that. When you had time for hobbies, what was her attitude to them? If she was enthusiastic, or at least generous with allowing you time/money for them, that might indicate I'm on the wrong path, but if she tended to grumble about them, or complained about reasonable cost, it might be another indication that this is part of it. If she will "tolerate" but doesn't really accept that the need to dress is part of you, then it all starts to become a serious issue in her mind. You say English is not your first language, are you from an area where the traditional family is a very strong part of life? Perhaps with a strong religious component?

I am starting to think that this will be something that isn't going to get solved without an outside mediator. You're almost past the 10 posts limits, when you can send and receive private messages, hopefully one of the others in your area will know of a good therapist/counsellor.

Best wishes and good luck.

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Originally Posted by UNDERDRESSER

if she tended to grumble about them, or complained about reasonable cost

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Well, that's pretty much dead on :-) It took a visit to a psychologist to convince her that letting me spend couple of hundred dollars a year on some new or old hobby is OK and harmless. Not that she is bad about it, she just doesn't understand why do I need it...

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Originally Posted by UNDERDRESSER

are you from an area where the traditional family is a very strong part of life?

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Right again, but no religious component there... Pretty much all of the world is relatively conservative with those issues, outside of north America and parts of Europe. Still this is not very accepted even in those "tolerant" countries...


Once again, thank you everyone for your replies, it definitely helped.