Going in Public - Selective Attention - and CDing

Hi all,

I have noticed a few threads about going out and wondering if you might be noticed by those around you and/or close friends or work colleagues (clocked). Now this thread in no way is advocating that you should go out if you are not ready to do so. However, if you are planning to do so and are reticent with people noticing the "guy in the dress" I just wanted to share a bit about human cognitive processing with you.

Selective attention or attention control is something we all do. It rests in the pre-frontal cortex of the human brain and is part of executive function (that which allows you to function as a person in day to day life). Lobotomies of the past used to sever executive function (pre-frontal cortex) from the brain to make a person more docile. But I digress so back on track . . . If you think about driving to work or someplace you go each day, can you recall every detail of what happened on that drive with clarity? Most likely not as you are processing selective attention (eyes on the road) not paying attention to the world around you. The only time you might remember detail is if something unique happens . . . say you get cut-off by someone. At that point executive control kicks in and voila . . . you begin to process at the detail level.

Now you are probably saying . . . what the heck does this have to do with CDing? Well, if we apply this to a busy mall scenario and you are out and about doing your thing, you are most likely concentrating on the salient (what is important to you - such as getting to a store, going over in your mind what you need, etc.). Your selective attention is directed at that level and not the broader world. However, if something catches your eye, you may shift your attention and process (say an argument between two people, or something out of the ordinary).

So . . . if you are "en femme" in a crowded mall with lots of people (both male and female) going about their business, the chances of being noticed drop as most people are working on selective attention - we humans have a finite capability to divide out attention control and most choose not to divide the attention from the salient as it is too difficult. Think about it . . . are you processing every little detail when you walk through a busy mall?

Now you are probably saying "Well Isha, a guy in a dress will most likely shift someone's attention". Well . . . you are both right and wrong. Yes some people may shift attention long enough to notice the guy in the dress (hence the reason why we get clocked now and then) but most will go on oblivious as "selective attention" is a strong focus.

There is an interesting experiment on "selective attention" using basketballs at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo if you have not done this experiment give a go but follow the instructions exactly . . . the results are interesting.

For those who know this experiment you get what I mean . . . Does a CDer really get noticed? :)

Hugs

Isha

Ish
Great thread. but can we expound on the reasons WHY we want to go out. I have been trying to find the answer to this for quite a while. I can understand the initial reaction of needing to do it to see what its like. But I cant understand the reasoning why you would want to continue to do it. Even knowing people are not taking any notice what is the appeal? The clothes dont feel any different (except the feel of wind around you legs in a chiffon skirt) indoors or outdoors. I have heard of validation but this is in your eyes only. You cannot know what goes on in other peoples minds as you walk past, or what they do (cameras) when you turn your back. I would love to see a secret camera taking a video of a CD walking through a shopping centre to actually see what transpires in the 360 degree arena not just the perceptive arena of the CD.
Ill hope to find the answer one day...Ellie

That is really interesting! I don't pay attention to the people around me too much, so I don't notice how many times I get clocked. But after seeing your lovely post, Isha, I feel that i might not be getting clocked as often as I think :)

Thanks for the confidence booster!

Great vid too, I wont post my result because it would hurt the nature of the test, but very interesting :)

I think we get noticed by people we interact with, but do they care much?
Not really from my experience.

My advice to others going out for the first times is to go somewhere busy...probably quite the opposite of what most newbies think. Most people are so wrapped up in their own business that they do not notice and if they do, well, they do not seem to care. I really think alot of our thinking that we stick out is in our minds...

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Originally Posted by KayleeTaylor

Great vid too, I wont post my result because it would hurt the nature of the test, but very interesting :)

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Originally Posted by Ellie52

Ish
Great thread. but can we expound on the reasons WHY we want to go out. I have been trying to find the answer to this for quite a while.

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Hi Kaylee,

Thanks for not sharing your results. It is very interesting just how much we miss when we focus our attention. Glad you enjoyed and glad it gave a confidence boost :)

Hi Ellie,

Million dollar question with an illusive answer (at least for me). I guess I continue to do it because it feels right/good. The same way it feels right when I am out "en boy". I suppose there could be a part of me (my type A personality) which gets a bit of a rush doing so. I have sport parachuted for years and you would think at 50 I would have gotten tired of it but I keep going out and throwing myself out of perfectly serviceable aircraft. Can't explain why but it just feels right/good. Perhaps there is an endorphin connection mixed with a behavioral component . . . who truly knows.


You are correct though, we don't know what goes on in peoples minds when they see/and clock us in public. But for the most part I have stopped caring . . . if they think it is funny, weird and apt to laugh, that is their baggage not mine.

Hugs

Isha

Honestly Isha, I was trained to pay attention to detail from being formerly of military Intel and after that my career in the pharmaceutical industry especially in connection with process controls and CI (continuous improvement) efforts, so my senses are always taking in a plethora of data. I more or less have to tune things out to concentrate on one particular thing with alacrity. In other words, I would probably notice details in a crowded mall scenario which most would not. I can intensely enjoy the moment but simultaneously take in surrounding details.That's just the way I'm put together. I guess it could be both a blessing and a curse depending on how you look at it. :)

My balloon is deflated....here I thought I was successfully blending, and the truth is I was simply ignored;)

Hi Kate,

I hear you, my time with my one military employment beat divided attention in to me so I spend an inordinate amount of time taking in detail. However the average person, unless trained, tends to stick to the salient. In the case of CDs, unless someone is purposely going to the mall to "clock" CDers, it is unlikely they are even looking. Get you though about the blessing and the curse though :)

Hugs

Isha

Good video Dr Isha :D
If I ever go out now it will likely be in a nice mini skirt, boots (of course!) - all over a gorilla suit.
I think all we need now is David Attenborough to tell us how we tell the difference between a male and female gorilla!

On a serious note I think this is a true reflection of people - I have a couple of acquaintances I meet for business about every 3-4 months - last week I was meeting them in a fairly quite hotel bar and even so, one of them got several tables past me before we spotted each other, and we knew who we were expecting to see!

Good example... :clap:
Katey x

Great post, Isha, but it all boils down to one simple concept that we're all familiar with - "hiding in plain sight" ;) .

That is a great post , Thank-you !!! when people ask me aren't you worried about people seeing you? I always say most people are just so busy and focused on their errands or shopping most don't even notice or bat an eye. The way you explained this was excellent ! Giving it some thought after reading your post I would say that if I went into a few stores, mall, restaurant, walking on sidewalks or to and from car etc.. and potentially passed by 4 to 5 hundred people, I probably had direct eye contact from 4 or 5 of them, and they just usually smile and go about their business. Many years ago I had another cd friend and she explained to me that people see what they want to see. If they want to see a woman that's what they see, and many people (I'd say mostly men...lol) once they focus on something that is appealing, like a pair of legs in heels, their attention doesn't divert much from that, and find themselves bumping into someone else's shopping cart, LOL

Great post! I love to be the fly speck on the wall and observe people, especially in public places. Some of my own observations of how, or why some one would get "clocked" are rather simple in my way of thinking. The most obvious is over dressing, I have been in Walmart and seen women dressed to the limit and every guy in the place is looking her over. A full make up job, sexy dress, hose and heels clicking on the floor is like waving a red flag in front of a bull, duh, guys are going to look. Another is someone who's face, body, looks like a 1940's gun moll dressed like a teenager. I have seen Cders out in public, I would never say anything to them. What gives them away is usually inappropriate clothing for the location, their height, then adding heels, and lastly their hair/make up. If some one doesn't want to stand out then wear camouflage, by that I mean look like every other woman in the place they are going to.

both were absurd caricatures. I didn't aspire to be either one.

This is a great post especially for those of us who have yet taken the plunge, and I did figure something out while yes I do want to go out dressed and able to blend I think it comes down to just wanting to be part of the crowd and share Leigh with people, my male person is rather shy at times but for some reason I don't think Leigh is. I also want so bad to share this with my wife and wish she could get over her objections to it. I know that's a big leap but a girl can dream can't she?

people see what they expect to see. I was told years ago that everyone has an agenda and unless you interfere with said agenda, they don't care anything about you.

As far as noticing things in certain professions, I would like to say that is true. But being alert in a situation that can be life threatening is far different than daily life. b The drive to work is classic. Everyone thinks they can tell you exactly what happened on the drive, and yes you are paying attention but it is a habit, you do it everyday and many peopke actually place an event that didn't happen on that particular day into a story. I always wanted to believe that police officers noticed things, but they don't anymore than anyone else. And even when an event occurs, our mind processes and reprocesses it until we have a whole different scenario. What color was the person's shirt in front of you at the store today? The waitress' name last week? This is 99% of your life. Did you lock the door when you left?

I do on occasion do one thing that actually makes a person notice and no it isn't wearing a micro mini, even though I have done that and not been noticed. I smile. When you smile the person you smile at has but two options, smile back or act like they didn't see. Most are programmed to smile back. Now when you smile, they may remember that but ask what they saw you wearing...

Did you lock the door when you left this morning? Are you SURE? Now without scrolling up, what is in the background of Isha's avatar? Hell, men prove this everyday. How many times have you noticed your SO's top, hair color when she changed it, a fair number of you here don't even know her eye color (they are the color of a summer day, warm and welcoming with little flecks of laughter that dance when you smile...Hey I am good at tap dancing when needed).

And then on the other hand, most of us have gone through life being invisible. When we can dress to attract attention, we may want to do it. I always say "If I spend this much time getting ready, someone better darn well notice". Otherwise, why bother?

Did you lock the door? Are you sure?

What should I were while crossdressed on a basketball court? Isha Interesting link I counted them correctly and saw that something had entered the picture but not what it was

Once while sat in a college class, another lecturer walked in, picked up the waste paper bin, set fire to it and walked out. Our lecturer just carried on. After 10 minutes or so he stopped and asked us all to describe the "culprit". Despite us all watching the same event, no-one accurately described what the lecturer was wearing some being way off. Eye witness statements are not all they're cracked up to be.

I saw a program on how the brain processes images and test subjects were asked to look at a screen with a street scene on it. As the subject moved their eyes, the computer changed the image by adding or taking away some object, like a bus! Those tested didn't see the image had change. It seems we only "see" as long as our eyes aren't moving. Don't ask me to explain but it's just another example of how little we actually take notice of.

A lot of good posts here with plenty of insight and food for thought. Psych 101 for cross dressers.

"No one should hide. Women shouldn't feel pressured to look a certain way and neither should men. Giving in to social pressure is never going to inspire change. I know it's not easy, but who cares what other people think? When I go out people constantly are judging me. For my hair, my clothes, what I drive. That's what some people do, they judge. But it shouldn't matter. Everyone has a beauty inside them unlike any one else. Wear it with pride.
(I should mention I'm a straight woman in a relationship with a CD)
If you want to keep your CD life to yourself and vail it from friends and family, take a mini rd trip and go somewhere no one knows you. Go shopping, get your nails done, do whatever. You'll never see those people again. I'm a strong believer of living life to the fullest and no one should ever be afraid to do so.

Good luck to all the beauties here!! Be happy and stay positive. This world will change, be the change you want to see!!"

Yes another great post from Isha. Thanks!

Getting read as a CD is one thing, being recognized by someone who knows you en drab is quite another. I blend in until I actually interact, then I'm immediately read. But rarely recognized. People see what they are expecting to see.

For Real and exactly - I have stood in line to use the ladies room for 15 min., lots of people everywhere and fixed makeup at the mirror with others inside waiting for an open stall not a second glance ... but in a public place with very few people around everyone is scoping everyone else out and that's when it happens "psst, hay look is that a man/"..........................Debra

I would say on the contrary to the video shown, people do notice you rather quickly in real life.
Usually when I go shopping for female clothes and shoes, I wear a longer male wig of good quality and glasses to change my usual apperance and still look natural. That is necessary, because I can't afford to be recognized from several meters away by people I know. With changed apperance like that l expect I'll have enough time to avoid them before they can come close enough to recodnise me. At least that's a plan and luckly I never had to test it for now. This precautionary measures are necessary, because I would have a hard time to explain why I'm trying on or to some people even why I'm buying female clothes or shoes of big sizes. The disguise also prevents people to recognise me on surveillance videos from shops, if by any chance one of them would find their way to the internet.
Lately I also become a little more brave or reckless, depends on a personal opinion and when I go out of home town for shopping, I wear beside a wig and glasses some neutral looking female jeans and boots or flip-flops and nail polish (dark blue, beige or light silver). On those occassions I see that people sometimes notice the difference when you past them. You see them looking at you in certain way, especially when you are standing in line waiting to pay and they can see your hands and give a good look to the clothes you wear because you're standing still. But I must say, noone ever said anything to me. I was always wondering what they are thinking. Do they know I'm a crossdresser or they just think I'm gay and dress more feminine because of that.
As a conclusion, I would say that people do notice, but usually don't care or at least don't show that to you because they're polite. Sadly it's enough to meet the wrong person only once to have problems.

Whether or not a Cd gets noticed in public is largely a function of their confidence and how well they present. As you said, most people have tunnel vision at the mall and elsewhere being focused on their needs and wants and paying little attention to others around them. You will garner more attention if you fall out of the normal range as perceived by the average person, meaning if you are (in our case especially) taller than average, or dressed very differently from the 'crowd' (think WalMartians), or something like that.
The advice I was given when I first was venturing out was to do so only if I was say 50 miles from home where the chance of meeting some friend or relative was dramatically decreased. If you venture out close to home then you must be prepared for that chance encounter with someone you do know, who MAY recognize you. If you are not prepared for that possibility then it's best to either stay home or go out only far from it.


My first time out I was certain that everyone would know, everyone would stare, people would make comments. After about an hour of watching others to see if they were watching me I found THEY WEREN'T. It was slightly disappointing, but also reassuring. They had their business and I had mine and hopefully "never the twain shall meet".

You're quite correct, Isha. But As Lorileah also said...

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

people see what they expect to see.

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This is what I count on even more. Unless I do something to seriously catch their attention and cast doubt, people will make a quick assessment based on general features and leave it at that. If I'm blending, this is an easy assessment. If something is obviously incongruous (a full beard for example), it stands a greater chance of catching their attention and leading them to consider more factors. But even this is a problem only if there's time to gather more details.

If you want to try this on the flip side, as I've done on multiple occasions, just take a seat at an airport, restaurant, or mall and watch people go by. You'll notice that many women have noticeable attributes that might make you doubt their gender, be it facial features, arm hair, or walk. Now it's possible a small number of these might be CDs, but really there are a lot of women who exhibit attributes that don't match up with our criteria for an ideal female. We're all used to this, and the wide latitude given to classifying people as female works the same whether assessing GGs or CDs.

We don't need to convince anyone that we're female. We just have to avoid convincing them that we're male.

Miriam

I had taken that "test" a long time ago, and still remain astonished at how many people apparently don't notice what is going on. (It was painfully obvious to me) I think we assume that what we notice as individuals is what everyone else notices. I think acting totally normal while dressed in public is the best way to simply not draw too much attention. A great film with this theme is Le Samuri, it helps to change how we think about the chaos of being noticed, and especially remembered later on!

Isha, what you have said about only noticing somethig out of the ordinary as we go about our daily business, validates something I said in a reply to one of your early post about going out in public. What I said at the time was that if you go about YOUR business with confidence, without watching others to see if you are clocked or even noticed, then you won't be clocked. If you don't do anything out of the ordinary to wake up the potential observer you will go unnoticed.

BTW, great post, you have made us think again!!

Hugs Bria

Isha...
WOW! Great film...I watched a bunch of them. Sure helps those of us who worry...alot...about this subject. Thanks and great job as usual.
Fortuneta

Hi everyone,

Thanks much for all your great comments and insights. I am glad some of you took the test and discovered that we really do miss things. Does this mean you won't get "clocked/read" by those in the vanilla world, absolutely not. What I did want to demonstrate is that it is not as often as you might think.

I was out today with a GG friend of mine shopping (didn't find anything :sad:)) Now we came into contact with lots of people during the day and I can count on my hand the number of folks who legitimately did the old "guy in a dress" double take (not to say others did not read me). However for the most part, nobody paid us much attention and processed what they thought . . . two girls out shopping.

Hugs

Isha

Hi Isha

"All warfair is based upon deception"

One of my favorite sensei (way way way back when, it's a long story) said Europeans say I'll believe it when I see it, after a while you will begin to understand that you will see it when you believe it. If you're confident and walking to a shop people will see a woman walking to a shop, if you're perfectly done up but nervous people will see a frightened man in a skirt. doesn't work all the time, but frequently enough for me

The hiding in plain sight analogy pretty much sums it up.
I was trained to scan the area take mental notes of everything and formulate an exit strategy if needed. I still do that if I am in a crowded place no need for it now but I still do it.
I always watch what or who is in my general area.I can't break that habit its just second nature.
But I can say from what I have experienced going out enfemme if you blend well 90% of the people around you won't be paying any attention to you.
Hence the hiding in plain sight analogy is spot on.

@ Elle your statement saying if you went out once why would you want to do it again?
I really don't get that approach at all and makes me think you had a bad experience your first time.
There have been a few closet dressers here that swore they had no need to leave their homes dressed but yet now they are going out enfemme all the time.
My suggestion is to ask those people for your answer.

Sounds great...except I'm 6"1' in regular shoes. In heels I'm like 6"3' and up. Kinda hard to blend in as a girl like that. Could blend in at the gay bar great but I've been to many of the gay bars in my area as a male. Sometime I think I want to try going out of town to a nice bar to see what happens. Definitely way to shy to even try it out in regular public.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

@ Elle your statement saying if you went out once why would you want to do it again?
I really don't get that approach at all and makes me think you had a bad experience your first time.
There have been a few closet dressers here that swore they had no need to leave their homes dressed but yet now they are going out enfemme all the time.
My suggestion is to ask those people for your answer.

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Tracii, I have been out a few times and never had any adverse reactions at all. I think sometimes I am a weird crossdresser as I get bored with the dressing after about 2 hours. My mind set changes and I feel silly and very self conscious. When I was out it was Ok but I just couldn't see what I was trying to prove. I wasn't scared of being outed as I interacted with several people who thought I was actually a woman. I am lucky in the fact I am only 5'8 and very skinny, and my voice is passable. I have small hands and dont have much facial or body hair. My wife says I make a very nice woman.
I am having a dress up night tonight and I know that after 2-3 hours Ill be bored and into the shower to wash it all off again. I know you'll think if I went out and joined other CD's I would enjoy myself, but let me tell you, that's something I would never do. I find the thought very disturbing, like some of the posts on this forum talking about picking up men when dressed en femme. I find that quite disturbing. I know in the eyes of this forum we are all the same, but I treat dressing up as a hobby or fancy dress and don't take it seriously at all. I hope I don't offend anybody. I may one day venture outside again if I can find a reason to do it but it wont be just because people think I should....Ellie

I too find some of the activities disturbing but we are all different.
If its just a hobby with you thats fine by me.I enjoy interacting with other CDers and we have a great time.
To each his/her own I guess. I respect your views and you post some great threads.

NGC's Brain Games has clearly illustrated your point in numerous episodes, not to mention "solving" many other CDing "related" issues. One being how our brains [on a daily basis] will perform all manners of "behavior adjustment" in an effort to protect us from ourselves.

It should be required watching for all CDers.

wow this is so interesting. i've been keeping my legs shaved i wear pantyhose with shorts, keep my nails long with clear polish, pink, red for the toes (if i'm wearing pantyhose otherwise clear with flip flops) i wear a light eyeliner. haven't had the guts to go out dressed but all this while i did this i would eye every body i crossed or met just to see if they would look towards my feet or hands or notice my eyes. so far nothing, i on the other hand notice if a woman is wearing tights, stockings, pantyhose, sheer, opaque etc. i notice their nailpolish, their makeup, their clothes lace, satin, lycra etc.
i do notice every feminine men that i pass, i notice and love it when i see a feminine woman absolutely soaked in femininity. wow i once read 1 in every 10 men like to dress up so do i get those unnoticed curious stares at my stockinged feet nail polish peeking out?