Feeling a little down today....I didn't pass

So, the past few days I've been passing as a guy, you know, holding doors open, deepening my voice, getting a lot of 'sir's at stores...I even went and bought a suit.

Then today happened.

I went to go walk my dog and this little kid and two teenagers were fighting with foam swords in the park. I wandered over and asked the little kid if I could try and he said sure and explained the rules.

Then yelled, "Hey, this girl wants to play too!" I winced a little but let it pass and fought against the two teenagers and beat them both. Then one of them goes "Wow! You have really good defense for a girl!!" right as a neighbor that knows my girl name showed up and started calling me by it -_-;

As I walked back I looked in the reflection in the windows and my silhouette just looked so...girly. I've just been kinda down ever since. And my monthly started today!!! I tried so hard not to look female today too...

It just feels like the whole world has made it its special mission to remind me that I'm biologically a girl :sad:

Does anyone else have these days?

Perhaps people raised male can speak to this better, but my impression is that men don't generally approach kids /teens they don't know, because our society has a lot of anxiety around that. So maybe their reaction had more to do with the fact that you went up to them, rather than how you looked?

Hi Len
Not being there to witness the incident, I would not get too upset by today. From your picture, I can say that you definitely pass as a guy. My guess was that it was your mannerisms rather than your appearance that gave you away.

You will have to reverse everything that I am learning to do presenting as a female. You will have to start using your shoulder more, rather than just your hands/wrists. Shuffling your feet, slouching, horrible posture, all that kind of stuff

Good news is that it all can be achieved with practice, don't let it get it down too much
Gretch

There are days, usually in a string, where the world enjoys reminding us of our birth sex.
You get to a point though when all it does is ruin the moment instead of your whole day.

If you plan on starting HRT, I think you will have no problems passing as a man. You are just now starting on your journey. Once your confidence grows and presentation is better, you will seldom if ever get called "ma'am", even if you do not use male hormones. You already have a hell of a good start looking like a guy.

The blows to our egos is just part of the process. You cannot imagine how similar the paths are for FTM and MTF. The only big difference is how we try to present externally.

BTW I know nothing about training a voice to sound masculine but I imagine if you could open the lower 1/2 of the voice a bit more, it would deepen. Unlike MTF where we restrict the top 1/2.

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Originally Posted by JessM.

Perhaps people raised male can speak to this better, but my impression is that men don't generally approach kids /teens they don't know, because our society has a lot of anxiety around that. So maybe their reaction had more to do with the fact that you went up to them, rather than how you looked?

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Yeah true men do not do that, they are afraid of being accused of something, but the bottom line is all the transwomen I know avoid teens and children because they are always the first to clock you. Probably works the same.

You are my friend Len and that is how I think of you. Nothing further is required. :)

At this point in my transition to female, I seldom interact with children, partly because I'm not accustomed to doing so, but partly for fear of being accused of being "obviously a pedophile" ("He even dresses as a woman to molest them!")... and if I'm clearly not touching them, then.. oh, I must be trying to hurt them in the foam sword fight... or I must be there in my role as a pedophile "grooming" the kids.

I don't know how often older women play with children not their own... not unless the older woman is the neighbourhood "auntie", trusted by the parents.

But yeah, adult male + stranger's children = assumption of malicious intent.

As I gain experience I've found that I care less and less about whether I pass or not. 99% of people treat me as the gender I present and if someone is impolite or impulsive enough to verbally express their suspicion that I am not the presented gender that is their problem, not mine.

In short, don't allow your self-esteem to be dictated by children and drunks! :)

It was probably one of two things:
1. Your lack of facial hair - particularly beard shadow.
2. Your voice. I don't think you have posted a video with your male voice in it, but when people start to otherwise pass, it's usually the voice that's the last tell.

"T" will fix both of those things over time, if that's the route you go.

And I know it really sucks to not pass - believe me - I know, I went full-time with ZERO medical intervention at first. It's hard to pass 100% of the time even with medical intervention. Without it, it's incredibly challenging.

Succeeding to the extent you have in the short time you've been trying this is actually quite impressive hon.

I am sorry this happened to you though - it really is unpleasant when it does. (Believe me, I've had service people, at my house, while I've been fully en femme, in full makeup, everything, and had them consistently refer to me as "sir" - it sucks.)

Len, Sorry this day got you down, But my personal opinion, you are putting to much emphasis on passing
Sure it is great to pass, but in the end you have to feel comfortable with who you are and as long you
had a fun day, dressed how you like, then does it really matter if you passed or not?

It is hard to be misgendered. But there is a good side to it. It helps to develop a thick skin, which is mandatory when transitioning. There is always a period that is awkward and tell tale signs are noticed. With time it is less of an issue when it happens and you just shrug it off and keep going.

And yes it does matter. It matters a lot, but it does get better.

Time.

As someone trying to decide where I fit in, figure out how female my identity really is, I found that increasing discomfort with being Sir'd was a good indicator of my internal need to go further female. I am a classic over-thinker, always trying to make rational decisions about whether to press on to more female (better internal life, harder external life as I don't look very female) or to retreat to male (harder internal life, easier external life), so these kinds of cues from inside me are key to my decoding what I really need.

Ouch! Yep, Len, know the pain that comes with that one!

Not much helps except to know that it happens to all of us. Once I was on a London subway ("tube," I believe, in Britspeak) with a GG friend of mine. Guy across the way stage whispers to his companion, "You seee those two? They're guys!"

Oh, and while it doesn't seem to apply to what happened to you, be aware that boys and men also use the word "girl" as one of those guy-to-guy "insults." Sports coaches have been known to walk into the locker room and shout, "Listen up, girls!"

Maybe I haven't said anything that makes it any better when it happens, but maybe I made you smile a bit. Now, whipe that smile off your face and get back to scowling like a man, guy!

Hugs,
Persephone.

Jess: Really..? 0_0 I like hanging out with kids and teens though. They're a lot easier to get along with than adults. I really hope that I'll still be able to hang out with younger people when I transition.

Gretchen: You're probably right :) I've been focusing on taking large steps but I'll admit that I don't slouch lol I'm missing about an inch and a half of my tailbone and standing straight/having good posture helps with the pain :)

Nicole: Thanks for the encouragement :) I know that it's a part of the process and suspect that me getting so down about it was due to my monthly cycle starting up and thinking about some personal stuff.

Angela: That's a good point! Thinking back, I was usually pretty good at telling men and women apart when I was younger...Kids have crazy talents lol And thank you :) It does matter, but I know that I still have a long way to go in my journey so...Thick skin, I better develop some, haha!!!

Kate: Thank you. You're so sweet =^-^=

Sandra: That still seems weird to me but then again, I usually end up being the 'auntie/babysitter' type whenever I'm en femme. People just always seem to sense that I'd protect children rather than hurt them ;) I really hope that that doesn't change as I transition to being more male.

Eryn: Thank you :) And you're absolutely right

Paula: Thank you for the kindness. You're probably right :) T will take care of a lot of my 'tells'. So will my binder...right now I'm doubling up my sports bras. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't

Raychel: I think I was just a little disappointed ^_^; But I'm okay with myself, presenting or not :)

Persephone: Haha, thank you for the smile :) I'm glad to know that I'm not alone and after sleeping on it, I've realized that I passed for THREE WHOLE DAYS before I got called out as a girl. That's what I should be focusing on, not some little kids calling me a girl :)

Hey, I am simply telling you what my therapist tells me - "when they are on T for a while and start to get some whiskers, they just start passin'" (She's a country girl, my therapist!) She's right too - I've seen some amazing FtM transitions. You get a little body hair going, your voice drops, you start getting some muscle tone - yeah, you'll be a really studly dude.

The great thing about being your age is that nobody says you can't be a nurturing father, especially not anymore. Being a Dad is basically the *only* part of being a man I enjoyed. You'll be a good one hon. Don't sweat it.

I can second what's been said about men not typically approaching younger teens/kids. A friend of mine does parkour, and was teaching some kids (who approached him, I believe) a few moves at the park. When their parents came along they grabbed their kids and stormed off, thinking he was up to something :I
I felt really bad for him, he's such a nice guy, and was pretty upset by it.

When I was your age, I did exactly the sort of thing you did, stopping and playing with some random kids. (Have times really changed that much?) I don't THINK that was the problem. I agree with others that you look quite masculine in your avatar picture. So I have nothing specific to suggest, but can offer a few generalities. Walking, running, and sitting are things to pay attention to. Also laughing; women and men sound different when they laugh. As a general matter, I'd Also recommend upper body exercise; weight lifting would be great (think how great you'd look with some veins popping out on your forearms.)

I feel you there. At least you can pass though... I can't do shit because of how feminine I look. Could down dress all I want, but til i grow a beard of some sort, and gain a shit ton of muscle, then yeah all I'm gonna get is the stupid shit i always do. Lol but soon though.

When young I passed as a girl. Today, I couldn't pass. You have time on your side. Also remember young guys are much more fem today which is on your side. Understand what guys do is not genetic but training.

You're doing fine, Len. There's nothing wrong here.

It appears that you want 100% success at presenting as a male (no awkward glances) 100% of the time (every situation). Now that's just so wrong it's silly. The only thing I've been able to do that reliably is breathe. A baseball player with a .500 average is considered really good, even though he fails 50% of the time.

Why not try setting some realistic goals and getting back out there? How about 75% / 75%? That sounds really easy and you probably hit that mark regularly. If / when you do, bump it up a bit and try again.

Best wishes
MsVal

Ahh children.....

Children have very few social inhibitions, particularly when in play mode. They generally don't need them as they are typically protected from the consequences of socially inappropriate behaviour by their parents. Consequently if ANYONE is going to be "read", be they MTF, FTM, TS, TG, CD, DQ GLBT or whatever, it will be by a child. Also don't fogey that they have a limited experience just in out and out years so they are just trying to mash you into their experience of adults, grown ups are either boys or girls because that is typically what they see in their lives i.e. their parents.

Generally after the initial book cover response kids frankly mostly couldn't give a toss whether you are male or female. You could be alien as far as their concerned as long as you listen / play / pay attention to them they don't care. I agree with everyone else, you pass well in your avatar and elsewhere by the sound of things, maybe just focus a little more on being yourself irrespective of how others perceive you, not easy I know but long run if you can you will feel better for it.

Adina - three whole days without being read? Classic. Me, I'd settle for three whole hours.

Go on now, give us all a big SMILE!

Thank you so much, everyone! :) I'm slowly reaching the point where I don't care if I 'pass' or not. All of you supporting me during this transition is just so wonderful. Thanks again! :D

That is when life will truly be good for you, Once you stop putting so much
emphasis on passing and just enjoying yourself. Just be yourself and have fun.....

Hello LenGray,
children work and think on a different wavelength to adults they do not yet have the advantage of experience to know that there are so many variations in gender styles or appearances so they say things in a very innocent way often things that an adult would not and believe me being a parent it can be quite embarrassing sometimes :o so do not take to much notice of it , just know who you are and go forward with that in mined .

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Originally Posted by Raychel

That is when life will truly be good for you, Once you stop putting so much
emphasis on passing and just enjoying yourself. Just be yourself and have fun.....

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Now the reason life starts being good - who knows if it's because confidence helps us actually "pass" or if people just start showing respect for how we want to be treated, who knows. It does get to a point where you just expect to be called by your chosen gender. Well that and we tend to hone our presentation so yeah over time, there is confidence AND presentation improvements.

At first, someone calling us by our birth gender can ruin a day or several days. After a while when it happens (less frequent), it ruins only a couple minutes at worst.

You really will get there hon. It just takes time and hormones. :) Get you some whiskers and folks'll sir you left and right.

To amplify what Nicole said - your attitude has a lot to do with this. If you don't care whether or not you pass, it's much easier to pass. My GF is not very far along on HRT, and she's a big girl. (6' 3"). She passes more than I'd expect, and I think a big part of the reason is that she absolutely does not give a damn whether or not she passes. I've seen her pass when she doesn't even TRY to pass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LenGray

It just feels like the whole world has made it its special mission to remind me that I'm biologically a girl :sad:

Does anyone else have these days?

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Don't give it any more thought than the last Speed Bump you drove over...

Don't give up, Len. Progress a little at a time is the best way.
Maybe you need just a hint of makeup--beard shadow in the proper places--5 o'clock shadow.

And someday you will want to experiment with fake moustaches. Of course, you might get the giggling fits the first few times. Buy a few online--or wait for Halloween in stores.

And try carrying a macho accessory: pipe wrench, football, baseball cap, briefcase, shovel, chainsaw. Keep working--it takes time to get it right.

When I was transitioning I used to pass as a guy a lot but sometimes it didn't work. I remember 2 or 3 years ago I went to Six Flags with my parents and I'm pretty sure a lady called me a girl. I thought I looked boyish though; I even had on a sports bra and my shirt ccovered my chest well. It ruined my mood for a while.

You juat gotta suck it up and deal with it. Even cis blokes get miagendered. One day it'll likely stop.

Yeah :) I'm slowly getting to the point where I don't care what people think. That day, I was just feeling like the whole world was yelling 'You're a girl!' lol

Since then, I've been a lot better about not letting it get me down :)

I think you are doing very well Len. :)

Kids I tell ya, it's like they have a freaking radar for that sort of thing. But hey, chin up Len! Congrats on going strong for three days, that's awesome! but not much of a surprise, the person in your avatar photo is a very handsome young man :)

Kidar; like gaydar but snarkier and much less useful...