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EXCUSE to "be nice" to folks. Or be "nicer" than I could as a man.
This ^^^ is often the impression I get here from so many posts, both Qs and and answers. And yet some of these folks say they are the same person no matter how they are dressed.
Surely no one thinks only females are allowed to be caring, compassionate, considerate, etc.? Or, that for a man to exhibit these qualities makes him somehow less of a man?
I've said this many times. I do not change my behavior based on my clothes. Whatever my attire I am the same person....sometimes more thoughtful and considerate than others. While the change of clothing doesn't affect my behavior, acknowledging that I am TG has. I am far more mindful of and accepting of differences in others.
A symptom of GD - which I believe some here suffer from, even some CDs, is anger and hostility. I think some here may experience mild forms of these, mitigated by CDing. So relief from GD would really allow someone to be nicer.
No, academically, if you asked someone expressly like that.. I bet most would say no.
But that is a 'brain' reaction, not a 'gut' reaction.
People assess a LOT of things on the first scan of how you appear. Roles being what they are, the caretaker is a softer role. Protector is a harder one. We look for certain traits to identify if those are present, and more of the caretaker ones are present in a female presentation.
As a male who 'drifts' into a partial female state, I can confidently say that I *feel* different when I dress different. Just like if I'm working from home and I stay in PJs, I don't get as much done as if I had dressed for work. Putting on the skirt makes me feel more open & comfortable. I do crafts (metalworking with silver, brass & copper) and my results are different when I dress female.
Its our heads we are trying to stabilize here. We are people with mismatched equipment. Society has come a long way in the last 30 years, but there is still a lot of bias, which causes fear and uncertainty in those who are 'different'. How do we feel stable? Safe? **Comfortable**?
We may be the same person inside. Just as selfless or caring regardless of how we are dressed. But people need to GET to that point to know it. Those early screens/filters hit on moment one.
So I submit that yes, our appearance *does* matter.
- MM
I'm definitely the same person whether femme or homme. I try to be more feminine in my movements as part of my presentation, but mentally, I'm unchanged.
As I've grown older, I have become a more compassionate person in certain aspects of my life, but I have always been very emotional. Not a sopping wet useless lump, but able to express personal upset or empathy for another's plight. I think being a caring, compassionate or considerate person is the sign of a solid individual, insofar that it is possible to think of others, in addition to or to the exclusion of ourselves.
Rebecca
I'm not disagreeing with how you feel, hon. Its about what THEY see. You can be the same cool, responsive person you always are, regardless of dress... But other people make a BUNCH of decisions on who/what/how you are based on how your present. Male is protective, Female is supportive.Quote:
Originally Posted by reb.femme
How we present matters, IMHO.
If it didn't matter, why would we bother talking about it?
- MM
Females? Like every species or just female humans? You mean like women? I like Paula Q's explanation, but yes, there are at least some people who would think exactly what you just said. I'm in the 'same person regardless of presentation' camp by the way, so I'm a dick all the time.
I try to be caring, compassionate, considerate and thoughtful regardless of whether I am "en femme" or "en boy". Do I always achieve my aim? Nope, I am human after all. :)
Hugs
Isha
I think you are missing the point. The question isn't really about how YOU feel, it is about how you are perceived.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zylia
You *want* people to see you as female, right? So it *matters*, right?
I'm approaching this from the 'social roles', anthropological perspective. In much of the world, our kind have been traditionally holy people. Wise ones. Matchmakers. Counselors. Special people. Those who saw both sides. Treasures.
You have to understand that this is about those first 3 seconds that someone sees you. A hundred different things are decided in that time, and you and I are talking about clothing & makeup choices that affect the way we are seen.
If you didn't know that already, I don't think you would be here.
- MM
No, I'm pretty sure Wild is talking about those people who think they can only be nice when they present as a woman, because some people think only women can be caring, compassionate, considerate, e.g. weak and not competitive, or so they think.
In the first 3 seconds when people see me out and about only one thing is decided "Dude in a dress" :eek: . . . just saying. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
Hugs
Isha
Being a Hospice nurse I have never had to hide my caring and compassionate side as a male. I actually get applauded for it by fellow workers as well as family members of patients and no one questions my masculinity or says that I am overtly feminine because of these personality traits. So I guess I have to say that I am the same person either way. I will note that I am more passive in the prescence of a male admirer enjoying the turnabout of being the one cared for. It's a nice vacation from my male life as a nurse.
Ok. Please don't understand me.
I agree that we are who we are. What we are dressed in is insignificant to that end.
I know what roles we can and will fill. All I was trying to say was that other will make assumptions/judgements based on how we appear, regardless of what we can deliver.
Beyond that, I step off. I have no desire to be at odds with you folks.
I'm new here, and I bring my own baggage.
- MM
I'm always the same nice person to others whether in a dress or jeans
?Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
I get what you're trying to say with the rest of your post, but that wasn't the original poster's point, so there wasn't really a point I was missing. It was very much about what some people think they can (or should) deliver. If you want to change the subject you better start a new thread.
Well, then I'm sorry for misunderstanding. I will start a new thread.
:)
- MM
The notion that women are innately more caring (compassionate, sweet, tender, nurturing, yadda, yadda) than men - or are supposed to be, anyways - is just another form of chauvinism. Males = this, females = that. It's on display quite frequently here, and it's so 50 years ago. I find it an unharmonious blend of ironic and disappointing, that a group of people who ought to damn well know better than to reinforce silly notions of gender-appropriate behavior, are so quick to flip the coin around.
I guess it tells you something about the blueprint for the Male Experience, or whatever, doesn't it? Guys put on a dress, and all of a sudden they're free to do all kinds of stuff that their buddies would mock them for. Sad.
I feel that I am the same person in that I don't perceive two separate male and female personalities.
However, the way I am dressed does change the way I act. In male clothing I have to behave as a male to appear normal, and that means a certain level of assertiveness that a normal female would not display. In female mode I don't have to display that characteristic and in fact it would detract from my presentation.
That's not to say that females cannot be aggressive and even nasty. There are ample examples of GGs acting in this way, but most CDers don't desire to explore that avenue of femininity. It falls a bit close to home.
I can be a real bitch or a b*st**d. :)
I can also be nice as pie in whatever mode I am in.
The people around me tend to dictate my demeanor
Wild, I love that you asked this because this is one of my major peeves with my H at the mo. He has a thing where he has put women on a pedestal and all things sugar and spice are female and all those nasty things are male. This drives me mad as being a GG and knowing hundreds of others I can safely say that yes, we're awesome :) but no, we sure don't deserve a pedestal any more than a man. Why does he think this?? I have no idea. Maybe it's social indoctrination or his absent father or whatever. But it's not reality and I wish he'd get over it and realize women and men are ALL nice or nasty. There's no chosen gender. But I also think this might be a large part of why he dresses - because he wanted to join what he perceives as the 'good' side.
Does anyone else here favor women over men? Or is that another thread topic.
I'd like to think I wouldn't change, but have never interacted with folk en femme so that's still up for confirmation. What Eryn and others have said rings true about presenting in a way that meets others expectations of how a female would present, otherwise one would definitely be flagging 'dude in a dress', but perhaps some here are already more feminine in those overt aspects - it still shouldn't change the deeper aspects of compassion, care, etc.
Tinkerbell - I think you must be seeing some sort of extreme reaction from your SO - you give the impression this isn't necessarily normal so perhaps something has triggered this - and yes, by all means kick off a thread if you think it would help... :hugs:
Finally, I have to say that being exposed to the trials and battles that all of us TG folk experience with ourselves, with understanding and with the wider world has made me a more tolerant individual. Accepting that TG aspect of me has taken a lot of soul searching but has ultimately made me a more accepting and happier person. I would say again that I would hope that wouldn't change however I was presenting... :)
Katey x
You'd be wrong to ignore the non-cultural differences between your average woman and your average man. There are genetic and biological causes for women and men to behave differently. Does this mean men can't be caring and emotional and sensitive? Of course not. But the two are not identical. We are just a higher form of animal after all and anyone who has dealt with male and female animals knows there are definite diferences between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaliBrooke
I personally have always been much more emotional and empathetic than the other men around me. As Sally that doesn't change, but my outlook does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG
Sometimes the "Male World" is just too much competiveness, I used to do the Male Bonding things like Baseball Games, Camping, Skiing, and such . and instead of being relaxing, it was an extension of the work week. Everything was competitive or talk was about work, or the next "Deal", or how Big your house is, or the next job promotion. Talk about stress. I really enjoy things now because around women you can talk about life, your kids, feelings, how you are doing as a person, there is a lot of stress release in being able to unwind a bit. There's a lot to be said about being able to get emotions out.
Don't we tend to gravitate toward the norms we are exposed to as we grow up? If so, then who were the role models, the heroes, the idols of our youth (girl and boy)? Were they tender and nurturing? Were they stoic and commanding? What were the typical results from such exposure?
In my own limited experience, the heroes and role models of my youth were tough guys. They could occasionally be tender, but were typically hard living, tough as nails, "Real Men" that took care of business with never a thought about how it made people feel. The girls' were patterned after softer, nurturing, caring women that were keenly aware of others feelings.
Best wishes
MsVal
Since I am an in-home cross dresser I cannot gauge how I would interact with others. On the male side my behavior is governed a lot of times by the behavior of others. Some require more compassion than others. I seriously doubt the nurturing I did with my children has any thing to do with my cross dressing. There were times I went through self loathing because of my cross dressing. Cross dressing is not very "manly" in the eyes of society. Was I to take this self loathing out on my kids or my wife? No. If I knew what compelled me to wear women's clothing maybe I would be able to see if there was something that resulted in a higher degree of nurturing I exhibit as compared to others I know. There must have been something that occurred in my early formative years that affirmed what some perceive as 'feminine' traits. That being said, I have known many men over the years who I do not believe are cross dressers and are as compassionate, etc as I am.
There are duties and behaviors society has required of men. It's the societal norms. I have engaged on those behaviors. I have seen many women adopt the societal norms men are suppose to work under. I wonder if cross dressers on this forum think their wives or long term girlfriends are less feminine or compassionate because she Works outside the home along side men. And many women have joined the ranks of the military in military occupation specialties which expose them to death and harm?
Frankly, I've seen too many posts on this forum where male chauvinist behavior is exhibited toward their wives when it comes to cross dressing. But, that may be a different thread.
I'm a bit disturbed by this perspective. I'm an assertive woman, more assertive than most, but that doesn't make me less of a woman, it doesn't detract from my "presentation" as a woman. And I don't see it as a negative trait ("aggressive").Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
This is one of the things that bothers me about people on the transgender spectrum, is that so often they feel they have to reinforce stereotypes (such as that "normal" women aren't as assertive as men), in order to be most convincing. I wish transgender people would see the opportunity that they have to help break down society's gendered expectations, instead of reinforcing them.
As a man, you don't have to play the male games if you choose not to. What will they do to an adult male who doesn't engage in the competitive one-up-manship? And when presenting as a woman, you don't have to be gentle and friendly to everyone if that's not how you're feeling that day. Let's remind the world that we're all individuals, and we have different ways of being in the world that are not always tied directly to our gender.