Odd reaction

I've been out to my wife since before we married more than a decade ago and she has been quite supportive of me over the years. In the last four years, I have certainly gone farther than over the years that preceded and along the way I've spoken with my wife about her feelings and my intentions.

Recently, however, I have learned that my wife was feeling troubled. Oddly enough, it wasn't so much by my dressing, but her concern that she had not been entirely honest with me about her feelings. And those feelings compelled her to seek help from a local gender therapist.

She summoned up the resolve to talk with me about this last week. She came away from the counseling with a positive and encouraging attitude, but had some things she wanted to address. First, because I'm dressed nearly full time when I'm at home, she wanted to where I thought I was heading. Second, she acknowledged missing the male partner and third, admitted that she wasn't quite sure how to relate to me as a woman and felt herself pulling away as a result.


She also wanted to offer some options that she hoped would allow me the level of self expression I need and give her a break from having me dressed while we were together. One was to participate in a group arranged through the gender counselor with other transgendered people for dinner and socialization at LGBT friendly establishments in the area. Another was to designate some days as "male" and "female", so she could have time with me in "male mode" more often. And she asked me if I'd accompany her to a session with the gender therapist.

The odd part was my initial reaction. I really didn't handle it well at first. I was taken aback when I learned of her concerns - and I admit feeling hurt that she had mislead me into thinking everything was good. And at least until I had a chance to sleep on it, I told her I was inclined to go back into the closet or try to quit altogether.

After a long and relatively sleepless night, I got over the hurt feelings and started to think more positively about her "options". I agreed to split the male and female days 50:50...more or less. I was a bit less enthusiastic about the group get togethers...and offered to think more about it. The same went for the session with her counselor.

Now after a few more days of consideration, I'm inclined to go along with both the get-togethers and visiting with her counselor. I'm a little surprised and disappointed at my initial reaction and the fact that its taken a while to get comfortable with her ideas. Fortunately, she realized that it takes time to process such information.

My take aways on this: 1) communications is tricky and silence is not the same as agreement; 2) both partners need to allow each other time to adjust to change and 3) even when it seems you're on the same page, its important to reopen the conversation and "re-check" from time to time.

In summary "assume nothing"

Kim,
It is something you have to address regularly.
Your reaction can be likened to wives accepting what we do.
Every now and then I get a little "leveller" thrown at me and that means I back track a little before proceeding.

Kim,

I'd say that's all both sound observation and advice.. :)

I'm pleased you've found a way through your initial feelings to a more positive perspective - perhaps the inherent nature of what we do, makes us a little self-centred as we can often be trying to satisfy two sets of desires and needs internally, even before our nearest and dearest get involved... :thinking:

Good advice again - thanks for sharing it.. :)

Katey x

Kim,

Congratulations on being able to arrive at a decision that will, probably, be the best for you and your wife over the long haul.
The last paragraph is a good example of what helps to make a marriage work.

Although it did take some time, your wife should be praised for being honest and open with you! Also the fact she was going to counseling to try and correct her issues is wonderful. It is never be taken as an implication her issues are your fault, but you should do the same for her. Keep communicating (perhaps more often), do not judge each other for feelings or needs, and continue to be honest in all that is discussed. You both are strong and can get over this "bump" in your lives. Thanx for sharing.

I have found that sessions with the therapist can be nerve-wracking. It usually comes down to the therapist taking sides--and that makes the other party angry, particularly if he sides with the person he knows the best. Be ready to remain calm--even if pressured to make big concessions. A couples counselor might be better--or maybe not.

Kim, you and your wife are role models for us all. This is how loving couples work to find common ground. Peace, happiness and contentment to you both! Hugs, Michelle

I'm not really sure I'd characterize this is a bump. It was more of a lapse in communications. My wife was so apologetic for not responding earlier when I asked. As for the counselor taking sides, I don't really see that as an issue in this case. It seems from my wife's description that the counselor was very even handed, and if anything, very much pro-TG in her attitudes.

One other observation - my wife's comment. We both seemed to be intent on trying to accommodate each other, to the point of putting our individual needs second. While its a good thing to care enough to give up something in consideration for your partner, we have to take care of ourselves while we care for each other!

It all makes perfect sense to me.
Permitted through a lack of communication, you favored, almost to exclusivity your feminine side. Also due to lack of communication, your wife's resentment grew until she sought professional help.

Had the lines of communication been open and frequently used, neither case would have manifest, your feelings and your wife's would be better, and you would have been able to use that therapist's money for something else.

Disclaimer: I seldom know what I'm talking about, and our lines of communication are blocked ~98% where it comes to crossdressing. They will be opened in the spring when the workload and pressure where my wife works drops off. I hope that at that time I have the presence of mind to follow my own advice.

Best wishes
MsVal

Kim, Really glad after thinking about it you will try your wifes suggestions.

AND love this

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One other observation - my wife's comment. We both seemed to be intent on trying to accommodate each other, to the point of putting our individual needs second. While its a good thing to care enough to give up something in consideration for your partner, we have to take care of ourselves while we care for each other!

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I think your wife was worried how to tell you what she was thinking as she knew your first initial reaction would be going back in the closet or quiting.

You have a very loving caring relationship:hugs::hugs::hugs:

Kim, thank you for your honest story. We would all like to think that we wouldn't react that way, but in reality, probably would, so owning up to it is really brave of you. The important thing is you slept on it, and you were willing to see things from her point of view. It sounds like a great relationship.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

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She also wanted to offer some options that she hoped would allow me the level of self expression I need and give her a break from having me dressed while we were together. One was to participate in a group arranged through the gender counselor with other transgendered people for dinner and socialization at LGBT friendly establishments in the area. Another was to designate some days as "male" and "female", so she could have time with me in "male mode" more often. And she asked me if I'd accompany her to a session with the gender therapist....

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Kim, I think these are great ideas. You are a partnership after all....

all pretty reasonable. I responded, as I usually do - first as a grumpy old man - then, after a night of tossing and turning, as a somewhat more reasonable being. My initial Scandinavian reaction is always "no", followed by "maybe", and if I think long enough about it, I can get to "yes"

Thanks for sharing such an honest situation. Personally, I would be conflicted in such an arrangement. I guess it boils down to how important the relationship is to you. If it is the most important thing, than sacrifices will be made.

Kim, although she caught you off guard ,this may be something that has recently got her to think how things could be different. People at different stages of their lives often find themselves comparing themselves to others. Usually it's only the positive they see in others and negatives in their own relationships. However,the good news is that she wants you to see her counselor together. At least you know that she still loves you and needs your help to work through this. I'm willing to bet that you do too. All the best for both of you.
Kristy :)

Like Taylor Ray said,I see it as "caving to your wife's wishes"..and that is fine! But two things..Did you discuss WHY you feel best when in female mode? And you are premature in deciding that it will work out and you will be as happy...If it was so important to you,then you won't feel the same without it... Only my opinion,of course.

I don't see it as caving in to her wishes I see it as your wanting to work with your partner to help her feel better in your relationship. All relationships are a 2 way street no matter what the type is.

As I read through your post, I was a little mad. It wasn't at you, though. I was mad at myself because through your post, I realized my own faults towards my SO. So, I'd like to thank you for that. I, too, have trouble accepting her ideas from time to time. Usually they do not pertain to dressing, but just in general I have a hard time accepting ideas that are not mine.

I think it is fair to your wife that you attend the dinners and help her along. I put my SO in a very hard place by staying closeted until years into our relationship. I wouldn't look at this as a negative, sure you lose a little girl time, but over the years, your wife has lost her man time with you. It will be hard, but I think it is the right thing to do.

To take your story and expand a bit, since your wife is very supportive, has known all along about your dressing and yet she has seemingly had deep concerns about "losing her man" and "how to relate to you as a woman" is going to be the in part the same problems that society at large have with cds and ts. They find it difficult to relate to men who want to dress as women and "be treated as one" even though they are not women and generally are not fooling anyone. If an understanding person has problems, what are the chances that society at large is just going to accept cds in the general course of things? Nil, I'm afraid.
so perhaps the better policy for those who want to go out is to not even consider being accepted and just go about their business . They will be seen by people in their own way. Gay people don't look any different than anyone else, it is their partner preference that is different but that is not visible. Men trying to pass as women imho will never get mainstream no matter how many get out there. I think that nis the continuing fallacy here that eventually we will get acceptance.
Just imagine your self as a bag piper, most people will hate , a few will tolerate it, and a tiny bit of the population will follow you for miles.
I think this TED talk by a Belgian therapist on intimate relations is worth watching. It is 20 minutes. This will confirm what your wife said she wanted back in her life.
http://www.ted.com/talks/esther_pere...ationship.html

No question that your approach is the best way to go, but boy oh boy, that's not the way it's been going in my marriage. For years, my wife has refused to talk about my dressing, while my need to express myself has grown. So my method is one that most people here wouldn't recommend. I just go ahead and wear whatever I want, whenever I want. Two reasons: I gotta be me, and secondly, maybe she will say something, anything. My SO's silence is not acceptance, but a refusal to go to war. I'm left with putting together the most tasteful look I can and hoping she sees I'm not a freak or an abomination, that I'm the same person whether in femme or drab. I think it is actually working. More and more, her attitude is like, 'it's not a big deal' and the atmosphere at home is becoming more relaxed. And my dress collection has gone from good to fabulous (yay! ), but she still doesn't want to talk about it. Again, not the best method, but the only one I have.

Kim

Thankyou for the post and sharing. I just posted something a little similar in vein in LO forum before reading this. I was also a little surprised at your initial response to your wife but not to your eventual response after giving it thought and consideration as I have always found your posts to be full of thoughtfulness for others.

Hi Kim,

Thanks for sharing this story and it is a bit of a reality check for those of us who have supportive SOs. My wife and I try to talk at least once a week about all things CD but I find as acceptance grows we talk less. Gives me pause for thought that perhaps we need to go back to the hard fast rule of a few hours a week to sit and discuss to ensure there is no issues brewing below the surface of acceptance.

Hugs and thanks

Isha

It all depends on a person's form of "Tness"...What is fine for one,doesn't work for another. Over the years,the OP has made comments that alluded toward believing that "her form of Tness" was deeply entrenched in her psyche..If that is the case,then compromises may prove to be unrewarding for her. Interesting to me is how easily people tell others here to compromise without knowing much about them. I would love to hear what a gender savvy relationship councilor has to say after meeting with the couple.

Yes Kim, assuming is not good. My wife tolerates my dressing (not nearly as much dressing as you do) but every once in a while there's a snide remark that brings me back down to earth.

I don't think there are many women who are truly happy to learn that their husband is a crossdresser. The ones who accept it or even play along are doing it out of love or out of fear of divorce and finding a new husband, possibly with worse habits.

I think those of us with accepting wives are truly lucky but we must remain in touch with reality, that reality being that your wife married a man, not a woman and she doesn't want to lose that man.

From everything I have read, when working with a SO on the CD issue, there have to be some ground rules. For example, mywife and I have a DADT relationship with regard to my CDing. She allows me my time to do it, but she never wants to see me dressed. I'm OK with that arrangement.

Kim
Glad to hear that you are working it out with your wife good luck with everything

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Originally Posted by Rogina B

It all depends on a person's form of "Tness"...What is fine for one,doesn't work for another. Over the years,the OP has made comments that alluded toward believing that "her form of Tness" was deeply entrenched in her psyche..If that is the case,then compromises may prove to be unrewarding for her. Interesting to me is how easily people tell others here to compromise without knowing much about them. I would love to hear what a gender savvy relationship councilor has to say after meeting with the couple.

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I'm honestly a bit nervous about how the counselor will view my Tness...to use your term. I see myself as a middle pather...but really leaning a bit towards TS. I'm not in anguish, not trapped or anything like that... I like to avoid questions like 'in a perfect world, would you prefer to live as a woman", because the answer is obvious, and it's also obvious that this is something less than a perfect world.

I do not see myself as being driven towards anything....more like I'm gently drawn.

Based on your last post about where you are going, is there an element of fear in talking to the therapist in that you may state that you are moving towards TS and that will frighten your wife?

I think everything she come up with was acceptable and fair, going to the group meeting and the counselor, she is trying. You need to too.

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Originally Posted by Laura912

Based on your last post about where you are going, is there an element of fear in talking to the therapist in that you may state that you are moving towards TS and that will frighten your wife?

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Of course....not great trepidation....but a measure of uncertainty. I have been around long enough to know never to say never.

Kim stated in her first post that she told her future wife prior to marriage...So her "Tness" is obviously an important part of her psyche like it is to some of us through out this forum..it isn't just a matter of some clothes..Sometimes people with this "level of T in their psyche" need to stand their ground in order to be happy with themselves.Standing her ground..by having some couple counseling with a gender understanding therapist..

It's true that being TG is and has been an important part of who I was 15 years ago and remain today. We all change...grow..as time goes on too. I don't know if I've simply allowed myself to reveal more over the years or have changed in some fundamental way. I have tried to keep my wife apprised of where I'm at and, to the extent I know, where I'm heading.

As an adherent to the Harvard business schools approach to negotiations, I prefer to be on the same side of the table as my wife...looking for common answers to our questions. Of course, I'm human, and,the point of this thread is that, despite my best intentions, I can still be a pig headed, obstinate fool. But those moments pass.