Ignorance vs. Rude

Hi all,

Well it has been awhile since I posted some machinations of my mind. I was reading a thread started by Teresa about "teasing" and it seemed timely due to an experience I had yesterday during some Isha time. So I thought I would share.

Yesterday was what I equate to good Isha day. Make-up went well, clothing looked good, nice weather, great morning coffee, happy wife and happy pets. So I grabbed my purse and headed off to explore the world as Isha. First stop was to drop my car off for servicing. Next public transit (good old bus) to the city. No issues, just a few stares and odd looks but non-eventful. It was a relatively nice day so I spent most of it walking around window shopping, had lunch then headed back to pick up my car. Picked up the car and just to make the day even more glorious . . . no extra "bad news this, that and other thing needs to be fixed . . . cha-ching" :D. The service people are quite used to Isha and always refer to me gender appropriate and even open the door to the car for me when I drive it out of the bay . . . more of a great day. :)

So I picked up some groceries, wine and decided a latte at Starbucks would bring an end to a great Isha day . . . spoke too soon. :devil: I got my drink and decided to have it outside in the sun since it was so nice. There was a table full of guys (30 something group) but that was it. They all looked when I came out and I knew what they were doing . . . processing the girl walking out . . . that lasted about 20 seconds and then it became obvious . . . not a girl :eek:. No biggie, I have gotten used to the 20 second "fantasy to reality" when it comes to guys, so I always cut the "guffaws, giggles and whispers" some slack as I know a lot of times it is just bravado. The whispers and guffaws die down and dive into my E-Reader and latte. I then get the intense feeling of being stared at :worried: and peer over my E-Reader at the table of guys who are now looking at me, whispering, laughing and having a grand old time. Now I may have been a tad bit paranoid at this point but I was beginning to get a bit irritated by all the finger pointing and jesting which seemed to be at my expense. :raisedeyebrow: but, I let it slide. Five minutes later it was still going on so now I am getting a bit beyond irritated :Angry3: My gut reaction was to leave these rude as%&#@$^ to their own existence in the land of jerkiness. However, I was having such a good day that I was not going to let this little hiccup spoil it. So I looked across and said (in my best Isha voice) "Gentlemen do we have a problem because all I want to do is enjoy the sun and my latte" I have to admit the laughter died instantly and they all stared at me quite intently and for one brief moment I thought . . . "Oops, Isha may have taken it just a bit too far this time" The pause was probably only a few seconds but it felt like an eternity and then one of them spoke "Ah, sorry about that but you are the first tranny any of us have ever seen and you have to admit it is a bit weird" Tranny did he actually say Tranny? :eek: So I thought for a few seconds and replied "Actually we don't really like that term and prefer Transgendered. I can see how you think it might be weird from your perspective but for me it is completely natural so I will just take my latte and leave you to your conversation" . . . another pause and then one of the other guys said "No need to do that . . . ah miss? We didn't mean to insult you we were just curious". Now this resulted in a 20 minute conversation about transgender in general and answering a series of questions (Do you call a MtF her or him? Do all TG want to be women . . . you get the picture). They left and I finished my latte and another chapter of my book and put the rest of this great Isha day behind me. :)

So it got me thinking. When we go out and we hear giggles, guffaws and view odd stares are these people being rude? Are they mocking me? I suppose it is possible but it could also be that they just don't know how to react to something they have no experience or understanding of. We (humans) will sometimes make light of what we don't truly understand. I have to think if I saw someone at a bus stop wearing a lime green and purple superhero outfit singing the theme song from "The Greatest American Hero" out loud, I might giggle a bit "not because I am rude but because it is an emotional response to a lack of understanding". However, if I take the time to talk to that person I might find out he lost a bet and this is the price he has to pay . . .or he might truly think he is a superhero but is a nice harmless guy. :) . . . Ah point Isha? My point is that sometimes we see rudeness in others when in fact it is just ignorance. Now don't get me wrong if someone is openly mocking me ("Look at the Tranny! Look at the Tranny!) or being hostile that is different. However, sometimes people just don't know how to respond and sometimes a smile or giggle is all they have. I believe these guys fell into that category and by taking the time to educate they seemed to have a different outlook on TG persons when they left. But then again who really knows perhaps they were pulling the Tranny's leg :doh: However, I like to think there is good in people and perhaps these guys will go out and educate a few others.

Disclaimer: I am in no way telling people you need to engage people when out and about. You need to tread lightly with this as it could have gone very bad. Would I do it again? Not sure. It just felt like the right thing at the time.

Hugs

Isha

Nice that you had the patience to educate them somewhat Isha. That isn't always easy to do. My rule of thumb out in public is that if they don't sign my pay check, I don't care what they think. If they would only take the time to know someone as a person they may have a different perspective. Perhaps in this sense they see that we are real people with feelings after all.Well done my friend. :)

Isha, I applaud what you did. It was risky, but it paid off in some additional understanding in the world. Even if they were just being condescending, you may have given them some food for thought in the future.

Megan

Hi Isha I'm pleased you ended up with a good day, the sun has a mellowing effect maybe !
You made me smile about the Super Hero comment as something happened like that when I was decorating a kitchen for a friend. I looked across at the back yard's of the houses opposite, an attractive girl was hanging out washing when a guy came out with a full dog skin sleep suit on, I nearly fell off my step ladder laughing. later I heard their dog barking, and I said to the friend was that the dog barking or the husband ? There was no hostility it was just funny !
The group of 30 guys you mentioned made me think of the percentage of Cders, it would have been an even bet that one of them was thinking I hope they don't notice my bra straps ! I am always armed with answer now if confronted by that situation, OK so which one of you are wearing panties ? !

Hey there Isha. So very good to see you hon, as I haven't been on in a while.
I'm so proud that you have the strength and courage to go out and just be yourself. Seems as if you diffused a potentially dangerous situation with charm and assertiveness. It doesn't hurt that you have the training that you have, both physical and mental. I have a bit of that training myself but I don't think I'd have been able to handle it as well as you.
Glad you had a great day and I see what you went through with those young men as a triumph.

Love and hugs. Barbie

Wow, Isha, that's very admirable. I have to admit that you have a lot more courage then I do. I completely agree with you that most of the people in the world is simply ignorant toward us (usually also with some curiosity) rather than hostile. It helps that once in a while someone among us could stand up and communication with the rest of the world about who we are. Thank you. :-)

Had the same thing in a much smaller version happen to me last week when i was dressed up nice, did errands, talked to men and women small talk about business being conducted then went downtown had lunch made for me at sandwich counter in cafeteria of an office building and the whole end game changed, but was not in the least ruined buy two women in the lobby of building staring and giggling. No big woo.

Passed and interacted with 30 people ,come across these 2 naive office girls carrying their lunch back who needed to get a life and get out more. Usually when that happens like it did to you I take the bull by the horns and own the moment and brazenly go up to them, turn their tables and embarrassed them and say " saw ya staring and giggling,obviously you have never seen a transvestite before, first time right hon?, well lets play twenty questions and I'll give you the answers before you ask. Ready ?" Talk about disarmament.They are now the ones who become the embarrassed.Do it girls,
But it does make me wonder. How is it no one else knew in the least, read me, or detected my voice which is down good but these two nit wits who were 30 ft away and had only a quick fleeting glance,no interaction or voice communication .. know? Beats me, law of average.

Isha, I don't think I could handle a situation like that as well as you can... How to you suppress the 'fight or fight'? I would be too emotional to be rational.... You know, I'd have all the best comebacks only they'd be twenty minutes too late. I fear I'd over react and inflame the situation, make it a contest and not want to loose.

Just one of the reasons I stay safely at home. I so envy your confidence.

I really admire your self control and composure in that situation and your patient efforts to educate. I agree, they were displaying their ignorance. One would wish that ignorance didn't express itself so rudely. Alas, it seems thatmuch of our society's intolerance and bigotry seems to grow out of ignorance.

Isha, this is a great story. I just love how you took a potentially bad situation and turned it into an opportunity to educate. Sometimes I see people looking at me and I wish they would just ask me about it. I would love to educate them about transgender people.

Kelley

Isha, you handled that situation brilliantly. I'm so glad it turned out well. I think most people just don't know how to handle a situation when they see someone they perceive to be different. So when they do, the whispers, looks, etc become common human behavior. When they see you are not a threat to their existence, so to speak, they accept and continue on. You showed these gentlemen that you are just as human as they are, and maybe even gained some respect for you...and maybe the community in general. Stay safe... :)

Isha, honey, you are my hero! My respect for you grows and grows! I doubt that many of us at all would have handled that with anywhere near your maturity, bravery and skill. Kudos!
I do expect that your location and the civilized nature of Canadians in general had something to do with your success... my countrymen, sadly, are often far less... understanding?
Still, your point is superb. People often react badly when faced with the unfamiliar. A little patience goes a long way.
Thanks so much for sharing. Yay. You brightened my day.
Hugs

I love how you handled it. I am solidly with the thought that we should be out educating instead of trying to call people out. I have certainly said that over and over in this forum and I firmly believe it. People are not used to us or are just getting used to us and education is paramount to understanding and acceptance. Once you start calling people out, it becomes combative and that type of approach will never receive acceptance.

I probly would have said "Grow up" as I walked away... Outstanding that you turned it into a learning experience!!!

I can't really blame them, a 'bloke in a dress' is frigging hilarious, especially when it's very obviously a bloke. Us TG folks have obviously seen our fair share of them in pictures and IRL and we're 'conditioned' not to find them all that funny anymore, but in all popular media, a guy wearing a dress and a wig is a joke in and of itself. I can see how that's problematic for the transgender community, but it's not just ignorance, it's also how many 'muggles' are conditioned, a cultural problem.

Isha,

Good for you and you are braver than most and I applaud you.

Well done Isha, glad you maintained a great day. I think it's awesome you took the time to educate those guys. I'm giggling at the thought if triggered the Pink Fog in one or two of them.

Bravo !!

Very good story Isha, and I applaud you for how you handled the situation. Thank you for sharing.

What a positive outcome!

It serves to remind us that other people are basically good and decent, not always rude and boorish, and if they are treated kindly they usually (not always) respond in a positive manner. If we treat others with respect and courtesy, they most often will respond positively and it is a "teaching moment" for all.

Isha,

I love the way you handled the situation. For me, I would have just ignored them. It got me thinking, that when people laugh at us it is sometimes maybe just their way of reacting to a situation they have not faced before, and that they are not intentionally trying to be mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grace7777

Isha,

they are not intentionally trying to be mean.

---

I agree. Sometimes laughter is how humans deal with cognitive dissonance. Other times laughter can be mean, though. Trick is to be able to distinguish the two and react appropriately.

That is an amazing story. You certainly handled it well but took a big risk. Of course I think you are brave for going out in the first place. I haven't even come close to working up the nerve to do just that much.

I think you did the right thing. Accessed the situation and played the cards you had. Kudos.
A teachable moment is how I look at it.They said its was their first time seeing a TG person so ignorance is the proper term I would think.
You explained who you were and they actually learned something thru you.
Maybe now they know have a better understanding and can teach others.

Wow I can't think of a better way to handle that situation.

I would have either run off glowing beet red or started tearing limbs from bodies.

You are awesome and an inspiration.

Kelly

In all my years of internet surfing and reading forums, I have never felt so energized from reading someones post.

That was the best reaction you could have ever given them. I was completely floored. A huge 'YES', was being screamed in my head while reading your story.

I bow to your courage and patience.

Isha,
For me I say ignorance and when explained and discussed many are at least polite about it and appreciate the explanation.
If the discussion is carried out with any arrogance you lose the battle.

Isha, you are due a decoration or a hero medal or something for the way that you handled the situation. I must say that I would have expected you to do sometihing like that judging from what I know of you.

I don't think that the reaction of the group of guys should be all that unexpected, how many straight men have known or even talked to anyone in any of the LGBT catagories? It is easy to disparage/discriminate persons of different color (colour for some), native language, etc when we have never interacted with such a person.

Isha, you put a face to the title "transgender" for that group and showed them that you didn't have any horns, fangs or any other strange characteristic, (at least I hope you don't), that you are just one member of the human race with the same basic needs and desires.

Thanks for being such a good ambassador for this community.

Hugs Bria

I want to re-join the chorus and say that Isha does deserve a medal.

But I would like to suggest that the "other guy" who said that "we didn't mean to insult you" and "we're just curious," which invited a conversation, deserves a medal too. That showed a level of maturity and open-mindedness that is laudable.

Isha, good for you girl, I happy that you stood up for us girls, and show that we are so people too. very enjoyable thread to read.

Isha...I'm struggling to find a way properly applaud you for your guts in that situation. I liked even more how you helped them learn something instead of simply being angry at them- that shows such integrity. If I could give you a hug, or a hi-five, or a handshake, or whatEVER I would haha

What a great ending to a good day. :)

Hi Isha,

Most people don't see folks like us day-to-day, so when they do it stands out. At 30-ish, they still feel things from their 20's.. and being in a group together, there is a certain level of 'face' they figured they needed to maintain in front of their 'bros'.

You gave those boys a 'teaching moment'.

I'm happy that it didn't escalate, and that it actually ended up in 20 minutes of conversation. You did them, and our Tsisters/Tbrothers a huge service.

If *they* see folks like us on a regular basis, we aren't 'strange' anymore.

...and being army, if things had escalated they would have had to explain how a guy in a dress 'effed them up :)

<3

- MM

Good on you for standing up to them, many people in this world are to narrow minded and always come out with idiotic views, i usually dont rise to it and just go on with my business as its really not worth it, i usually tell guys to grow up as its usually men that cause the problems.

Isha love your outing stories I think because you seem so open an honest as to who you are it just brings out the conversations. It's cool you got to give a little education to those guys, good for you hon.
Hugs Leigh

Isha, you handled that superbly well. I'm jealous because I probably would have left the latte and walked away.
One question, though, and not intending to defend the guys' original actions. Are we overusing the term 'ignorance' a bit on these forums in general? I know that the strict definition of ignorance may not have negative connotations, just meaning a lack of knowledge. However, in common usage we tend to confuse it with stupidity or stubborness (unwillingness to learn). (It does sound like these guys might have been ignorant). However, we do tend to look at the rest of the world and assume that they should understand what motivates a crossdresser or others who fall into the TG space. Consider the lime-green superhero. Our initial reaction is that he's a bit crazy. Yet, we may be guilty of ignorance, particularly if he is on his way to something like a cosplay event.
Is there a better word than ignorance for those who don't know/understand but might be willing to learn???
Please keep raising your great discussion points. Cheers!

You touch on some important points Isha. Your superhero costume is a great example. We never truly know what is going on unless we dialog with each other. It's the old adage about ASSUME - you make an ASS of U and ME. And also, when faced with new experiences for which we might not be prepared, we often don't have the correct "think on your feet" response. It's not always easy to give people the benefit of the doubt, but life is easiest when you don't immediately assume the worst. [There's that word again!]

I really hate that word "tranny". Everytime I hear it I cringe.

I always recommend caution if you are passable, to not dress provocatively.

Most people will leave you alone if they do not think you are trying to affect them in one way or the other.

You were minding your own business and they were acting rudely but it does not sound like you dressed in a way that was done to intentionally draw attention to yourself.

Thats what usually leads to problems.

Its much easier to educate the public when dressed tastefully.

Inspirational is what you are, Isha. I'm also full of admiration.

Christen x

Hi Isha & Megan, It sure sounds like you both had the last laugh.

Isha, you did an excellent job of deconstructing that Starbucks incident, trying to make some sense of the ignorant behaviour of those yahoos, confronting them with regard to their ignorance, and turning that situation around into a teachable moment that will hopefully result in them not reacting in the same way when they next see a "tranny". Note that I also said "when", not "if", because as more and more of us transgender folk come out of the woodwork, the higher the odds of the "muggles" running into one of us and having their world turned on its ear.

But here's the thing - you lost me when you tried to rationalize their boorish act of laughing, jesting, and finger-pointing etc. after they had "made" you. Yes, I get the possible double-takes, the surreptitious stares and the looks of bewilderment as we out-and-about crossdressers are not exactly mainstream yet. Truth be known, for most people, we are like the Sasquatch or the Abominable Snowman - widely reputed to exist, but for them, solid physical evidence of our existence is either sketchy or hard to come by. But the giggling, "nudge,nudge; wink, wink" and finger-pointing and so on is just plain rude and more appropriate for 3-year olds, not 30-somethings who are such one-dimensional prisoners of their "dudeness" that this is the only way in which they know how to react on a gut level.

We - and especially those of us who live in major urban centres - are exposed to all manner of diversity these days, and political correctness dictates that we take all of this in stride and not pass judgement based on the narrow value systems that we were often brought up with.

Every day, we see Muslims proudly wearing their burqas, hajibs, chadors, and niqabs, East Indians or Pakistanis wearing their saris and shalwar kameezes, Sikhs wearing their turbans, Amish or Mennonites dressed in plain black with their long beards (all the while eschewing the modern world and driving around in their horse-drawn buggies), or Hassidic Jews in their long coats, black hats, prayer shawls, and sporting long ringlets.

Then there are the others who, for non-religious reasons best known to themselves feel compelled to express their individuality (narcissm?) by adorning themselves with extensive tattoos, body piercings, punk hairdos, and hair dyed every colour of the rainbow. Is a shaved head a good look? Dreadlocks? Non-Caucasian women dying their hair red or blonde i.e. in a manner not native to their actual ethnicity? They seem to think so, and as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For many young men, the "gangsta" look is the epitome of "coolness", while many young women seem to take their fashion cues from porn stars these days.

My point is - all of these non-mainstream ways of presenting oneself have become acceptable in our democratic and diverse societies in the Western world, and no longer attract undue attention simply because we have gotten used to them. Most people no longer regard the sight of a person with full sleeve-type tattoos as jarring because we have become immune to that visual, but for others - like the aforesaid yahoos - a "man in a dress" is a vision that they have great difficulty in processing and therefore gives them "permission" to pass judgement on such a person.

So yes, Isha, you did well in calling them on their B.S. and turning the tables on them, but ignorance and/or lack of education in certain areas is still no excuse for such rudeness, and that is what irks me the most about this incident.

We all need to put our best foot forward when out in the world like Isha did.
To run and hide is not an option and only shows weakness/lack of conviction on your part.Isha and I have been trained to stand fast and win the fight so to speak.
Its situations like this where we the TG community can make a huge difference in how people perceive us.
Don't leave the teachable moments for some other CDer to take care of do it yourself.

You handled this beautifully!

I agree, I think that most people just don't know how to react and so they stare, giggle, snicker, etc. And when given a chance they welcome asking questions. We've had strangers come to our table specifically to make conversation with us (although I suspect it was to hear my SO's voice ... but I may be overly suspicious).

You had an episode several months back with a man who showed disdain or disgust. That was different, and I think that people who experience this do not giggle and point. I also think it is rather rare, thankfully, for someone to have such strong negative feelings over seeing a stranger crossdress. Most people do feel a huge degree of separation between themselves and a stranger they know they will never see again so they don't feel a need to react so emotionally.

Hi everyone,

Thanks very kindly for your comments. For me when I am out and about I prefer to cut people some slack when it comes to reactions. I have had people smirk, snicker, nudge, smile or just look plain stunned when they see me. I get it on a fundamental level . . . CDing to the uninitiated can seem very odd. I mean why would a guy want to dress as a girl? In most cases these are harmless reactions to a situation and I think we have all been there at one point in our life. Now if it ramps up as it did with the guys at Starbucks (guffaws, blatant staring and pointing) then I will call people on it. It is not escalate it to a verbal joust but to see if I can deescalate the situation. If they have told me to "*&%$ off" I probably would have taken my latte and left as the odds were not in my favor with a physical confrontation and even if they were, that is not the potential YouTube (people with smart phones) I want going viral . . . "Tranny beats up guys at Starbucks". In a sense they were being rude but IMHO not out of spite but just ignorance of understanding.

I think sometimes we take things a bit too personally and in the end it is not what you think. I have walked into a store and heard "shouts of laughter" from young girls. My first reaction "they are making fun of me". However, when I took time to look in that direction they were laughing a friend who was showing them something on a smart phone. When I walked by them one girl said "love your necklace where did you get it". There was no malice in her voice . . . oh she knew I was a guy but she chose to act accordingly. However, if I had gone with my gut reaction and just beat a hasty retreat from the scene I would have missed a great moment because I assumed they were making fun of me.

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of unkind people in the world and you will know when it is glaringly rude or potentially dangerous. Confronting people is something you need to do with caution as you never know how it is going to go.
However, most times you just need to cut some people some slack . . . the world will get there, it will just take time. :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

Great story!
I wonder, when the guys said they were curious....they wanted more information. I'll bet my 70 years experience, that deep down they were trying to get the courage to do the same thing as you. There are a lot of US out there!

I can't keep a secret.....but I din't tell ANYONE about my cross dressing till age 40+

Those guys, were actually sympathetic...in a "kooll" sort of way. And you were lucky!!

Great story!!

What a great story, I am glad it all turned out well for you.
confronting a crowd like that must have been very nerve racking,
but on the other hand you have educated a group of people in a good way.
the next time they see one of us in public, they will certainly be more better mannered,
and realize that there is a good person,, who just happens to prefer to dress in womens clothes.

Huge Kuddo's to you. Thanks for this he step you have taken for us.

Isha - that is another great experience for you - and you are a great ambassador... :cheer:

Now, we only need another 2 million like you spread around every continent and we might be in with a chance - and then I might go out.. ;)

Seriously, you do handle things well - you are a great example of being ladylike about it... :D

Katey x