getting discouraged over passability?

So ive really been in a slump tonight... i was all ready to get dressed up, and i just kind of... stopped halfway through doing my makeup. I just kind of looked at myself... ugly face, beard shadow, and all, and just thought "why do i even bother?" I really want to be able to get to the point where i might even be able to go out in public as Kayla, but im just too afraid that i dont look different enough from my boy mode that i would wind up being outed, or even recognized, by someone. I just dont think i would be able to cope with it if that happened. I just dont feel like ill ever be able look good enough that when people look at me theyll actually see a girl, rather than just a guy in makeup. Its a very discouraging thought, to think that this is such a big part of my life and who i am, but i may never be good enough to reach my goal of being able to go out as a girl and actually be seen and treated as one. I know that there will always be some people that will be able to tell, and i know that i shouldnt worry about it so much and just do what i want... but still... i cant help but feel that if i cant get to the point where i can do it without fear of being outed, then theres not really much point in doing it at all. I really dont want to just give up on it, but a lot of the time i feel like i should, because i just cant look good enough. I hate it, and i wish i could be more comfortable with myself and the way i look when im dressed up, but im just not... any advice? i dont want to just seem like im fishing for compliments here, because im really not. Im just asking for tips on what i could maybe do better with my looks, or on ways to be more comfortable with the way i look now.

Kayla I can't put myself in the same position as you because I had so much going on at your age, I didn't have time to think how well I was going to pass. I've a been CDer from the age of 8-9 and at 18 it was just snatched moments !
Maybe if you can fill your life with other things your balance with CDing will get better. It use to eat at me every day and still does but don't let totally rule your life because it may ruin it, sometimes you do have to fight it !!
I don't know if you have a partner or not but they can alter your life overnight and bring new interests !
You'll never stop being a CDer but there other things in life as well and they're there for the taking !

I know. I have a girlfriend. actually if it wasnt for her i never would have started crossdressing again. Its not like im letting it take over my life. I do have other interests. Actually the most i do it is for a a few hours a night a few times a week. I dont know... part of me wants to be able to do it more, and thats the part of me that feels like im just not good enough, and part of me knows that i cant let it get in the way of the rest of my life, and that along with not thinking im really good enough is what makes me feel like theres really not much point in doing it at all. Its not like its really "out of balance", just... i dont really know how to explain it..

Hi Kayla, Your face looks like you have a lot of possibility's for a great feminine look.

Hi Kayla . . . I believe from what I am reading is you have two areas of concern in your life (please correct me if I am wrong):

1. The desire to pass (be seen as a woman by others); and

2. The desire to go out in public someday and the fear that goes along with it.

WRT passing . . . sweetie very few of us truly pass and generally the younger you are and if you have been blessed with more feminine features, smaller frame, more girlish figure you can blend exceptionally well. Blending means that you can normally flitter from place to place with little attention drawn to you because people process the big picture and fill in the blanks . . . smallish person, long hair, make-up, girl clothes . . . GIRL. They seldom go for a closer examination unless something draws their attention (acting nervous normally gets the attention second look). I in no way pass but I can blend reasonably well but still it is only for a short period of time and eventually people see me for what I am . . . a guy in a dress. However I have made peace with that and accept that I will never pass.

When I look at your avatar, I think you would blend well enough. So don't get too wrapped up in passing . . . to be honest it is a race we (CDers) cannot win. Don't try and be a GG, unless you are TG/TS and being a woman is what you aspire to. However if you are a TG/CD be the best CDer you can without getting too fixated on passing.

WRT going out in public . . . only you will know when you are ready. Yes you do face the prospect that people will see you for a guy and I won't lie, some people will stare, others may giggle and point but for the most part I find people are too busy with their own lives to care about me and how I am dressed. If you are worried about being recognized by someone you know then when you are ready to go out, pick a venue away from your normal stomping grounds. While this may sound counter intuitive, when you do go out for the first time . . . daytime is best and a venue with lots of people (e.g., mall) as this will allow you blend among the many. I know scary with all those folks about but it is easier to blend. :)

Hugs

Isha

Kayla - you have youth on your side and probably a fairly androgynous look without trying too hard...:hugs: I'll leave comments about the real world to come from girls here who do the real world, but I think your contentment for this has to start with your own acceptance of who you are, how you look and how you feel about that?

If your real concern is about being outed by someone who recognises you, why not just go somewhere that's not likely? That may allow you to build some confidence and experience without the fear...? Certainly there are experienced girls here who still do that after many outings to ensure their two lives are kept carefully separate... :)

Katey x

Kayla,
From what I see in your profile pic you have alot going for you, mainly your age. By looking at your profile you are only 18, ugh Id give anything to go back. Take some advice from someone who missed out on all of the good years. Be YOURSELF. Dress when you can, practice makes perfect and dont be afraid. One thing you can do that might help is go for a more androgynous look. It will let you dress the way you want and in time if you want to blend in a little female here and there it wont be as noticable. Maybe you can start with a hair style that can be worn either in a male or femme style, try wearing girls jeans now and then or a neutral style top. Little things can help you feel better about your self.

My wife did my makeup last night. It was the first time i had full makeup on. When she finished, my first thought was " yep... dude in makeup".
Your not alone in your frustration. There are many tutorials on youtube on makeup for crossdressers. They include how to contour and highlight to de-emphasize male features. Its not night and day difference but definitely helps.

Hey Kayla, does passing necessarily have to be the "end" justified by the means of makeup and sexy clothes? Isha and Katey have made some great points on this topic. Going out is fine though if you're comfortable with it (admittedly I am not yet), but again sometimes getting dolled up is fun on its own...at least I think so. Re: your beard...there's a lot of good tips out there. I like to let mine grow out for a few days so I get a really close shave...using a hot cloth before you apply cream helps too. I love how after a layer of beard cover and foundation I start to look like a completely different person. We all have ups and downs...hope you have fun with it :).

Kayla,
From the pic I see you are very cute! In boy mode I would hit on you and ask you out. I wish I had some of your features

I think this is great advice

Kayla, Isha's advise is spot on here and others are good as well. You say that your girlfriend is the reason you started dressing again, so I am assuming that she knows and sees you when you are dressed. If you are concerned at how you look, ask her for help or her opinion, if she knows i'll bet she will be willing to help. Also If you would like some help with your look, consider posting some pix of you dressed in different outfits and make-up. The girls here would be happy to critique your look for you.

From what I can see in your profile picture you have a lot going for you, most importantly is your youth. I think you would probably blend quite well. Their are a lot of tricks with make-up that can be used to draw attention away from male features and to highlight the feminine ones, YouTube is full of tutorials in this area. Going to cosmetic counter at a major department store or a Mac or other specialty cosmetic store for a make over is also a possibility, I have found them to be very helpful and also very friendly to the TG community. Other little things like trimming your eye brows a little to neaten them up, can greatly improve your look, they do not have to be overtly feminine to improve your look but bushy eyebrows scream guy.

I can sympathize with your dilemma over your desire to be "passable enough". For any of us who are out and about it is something that we all struggle with. Keep in mind though that we are our own worst critics and can easily see in our selves the familiar features that no amount of make-up can hide from us. It is a different story though when others look at us who do not know us, they are not looking to see if we are the same person we were without the make up, they only see what they see. I know that I am not "passable" when I look in the mirror, but when I go out in public feeling relaxed and confident in who I am, I rarely get a second look. My wife is always looking for other peoples reactions when we go out together and is amazed at how often people either do not care or do not notice and just go about their business without a second glance.

The most important thing I have found in being out in the main stream world, is to be comfortable and confident in who you are. If you are nervous or trying to hide your self it will only draw more attention to you rather than away from you. People notice when someone is nervous or not comfortable with them selves and will usually look harder to figure out why. So when you are ready to make that first trip out the door, be confident and own it, you will be amazed at how great it feels.

Good Luck
Michelle

Thank you so much everyone.... after a while to cool down and get my mind off things, and after reading your replies the conclusion ive come to is this: when i was thinking all of that, i was only looking at my negative features, when there are so many positives i could be looking at instead.

isha:thank you that really makes sense. I had already been aware of the "passing vs blending in" idea. In my mind passing is if i were to go out shopping or to get something to eat people wont look at me and immediately think "guy" which i geuss does sound more like blending in.. i never have been a particularly big person. Im well under 6' tall and not very muscular. I am pretty good with makeup too. And btw, in my book i would definetly consider you passable, even if you say youre not.

Renee:i think youre right. Practice makes perfect. And now that iv gotten to a point in my life where i can actually buy new CDing stuff for myself i can actually get the right kinds of things. Iv gotten a few new clothes and some new makeup recently, and
honestly comparing recent pics to older ones theres quite a difference. They seem to get a little better every time.

Thank you everyone. It made my day seeing all the responses and knowing i have people i can talk to when im struggling like i was last night :)

Some day(nights) the War Paint does not go on easily.
Results are not good enough. Read the results and use that to improve the next time.
Blending, Contouring, Shading are all tricks of the trade. Takes time and utube has ALOT.
Enjoy the path Kayla, even when there are pebbles to step on.

Judging by your photo, I think you could blend in very well. Of course, looking the part is only half the job. You need to act like you belong as well.

You are probably making the same mistakes with your makeup that I do. I have a girly kind of face, and get maam'ed in guy mode sometimes. But I put on makeup and I tend to highlight the few masculine features I have.

I am getting better and you will, too.

It takes alot of practice. I'm sure it takes more practice for us than it would a girl, they don't have anything to prove.

I agree about going to a makeup counter and youtube videos. Practice only makes perfect when you practice the right techniques.

We are all with you.

I do spend a lot of time on youtube already actually. But i think you may be right. I dont exactly have the moat masculine face either. Far from it. And actually, when i used to have my natural long hair before i cut it short like it is now (past my shoulders) i got mistaken for a girl without even trying more often than i care to admit. And with that said, if people can mistake me for a girl in guy mode, who knows how things may turn out

I went back and read some of your posts. You're 19 and out of school. You describe the geographical area that you live in as being anti anything. There are areas of the country that are more accepting of cross dressers. You may want to consider the option of relocating. There are states, such as Washington, that offer legal protections to transgendered men and women. Your youth shown in your picture would suggest you have immense potential. I think if any person stares you would be recognized as a cross dresser. However, if you're in an environment where cross dressers and transgendered men and women live, there a fewer prying eyes. I'd considered relocating, attending college, and joining a support group. I think a person becomes less self conscious when he or she can associate with similar people. It's only natural.

I would guess that MOST of us have gone though ( and still go through ) your exact feelings.
When I was your age, I was too scared to go out - but also I did not have passing wardrobe,
there was no YouTube to find great tutorials for makeup, no eBay to find a wig, etc etc etc.

Now I only wish I had, because I am not able to wear more youthful styles and pass.

These things helped me finally go out in a mall.
- I went to a different community ( different province ) and rented a hotel room to dress in, retreat to.
...... nobody knew me there.
- I placed craigslist, ( kijiji/Canada - Gumtree/UK ) ads seeking someone to help me with makeup and accompany me
....... ( not "escort" me haha - language makes a difference ) so that I'd never need to TALK to anyone.
- I bought little items that really helped me look feminine, all for under $100 ( email me for the list )
- I practiced walking with a video camera over and over until I learned how to do it in a feminine way.

I agree with Isha,
Its just a state of mind, you look like you are passable to me from the pic you have but its all your attitude. I feel / felt the same way you do, I want to be as passable as possible. My first outing, I was scared to death about being out in public. From my experiences, it is part of our growth with self acceptance, if we want our fem selves out in public. I have been read before when I first started going out and it does feel discouraging but some people will read us, most people will ignore or not even notice us an some people will be very supportive and encouraging too. Last time I was out in public, I was hanging out with a guy friend of mine (while en femme) and we went out to dinner, a few teenage girls saw me and giggled as I knew they read me... the funny thing was, it did not bother me much at all, they don't know me, I never have to see them again, and me and my buddy had a fun time hanging out. After a while of going out in public, you get confident and comfortable and ignore the few that stare / giggle and enjoy the compliments fro others that know but are supportive :)

Kayla, my sister-in-law sent my wife something about a year ago that helped me with passing, "What others think of you is none of your business." The idea being, if you don't completely pass and someone figures it out, who cares? The idea that you feel feminine and pretty is the only thing. Feeling comfortable in our own skin is probably the main reason we're all here on this forum.

I understand the desire to blend in public (or even pass) and it's definitely a state of mind. I look at my avatar and I don't think that's me, but it IS me. We are all our own worst critics.

But if someone read you as a guy cross dressing but treated you respectively and nicely just the same, would that be so bad? My friend pitched to me that the reason we desire to pass is because we're ashamed of what we are, be it transgender or just cross dressing male. What's so bad about being either one of these? We don't want to be shamed by the world and we have to start by not seeing the shame in it ourselves. I used to want to pass in public as well but I honestly don't care anymore. Sure I do my best to look good and I mask my voice but that's because it feels better for me to go those lengths. If I am "sir'd" or given mean looks, I just shrug it off and realize that I am indeed a man in a skirt and some people will find that strange. You do not have to accept me, but I do demand to be treated as a decent human being. If you can go out dressed and people treat you nicely, then to me that's the highest bar you can reach.

I would like to reinforce what Daisy said. You are young enough that you are likely to experience the great changes of the gender revolution that is already beginning. If you look at fashion, celebrities, musicians and artists these days you will notice that it is sometimes quite difficult to gender them easily. As it becomes more and more a matter of personal preference what gender you present, society, especially in cities and especially in coastal cities (in the US) will care less and less about passing as one gender or another. Being androgynous is already almost the norm among many young college age and educated women and it is becoming increasingly so for men also. Associate with those people in your peer groups. Don't try to pass according to some probably inaccurate view you have of what women look like. As others have pointed out most people don't really look anyway, they go on some broad cues. When I am out with my wife people often relate to us as two women, and I do assure you I am not trying to pass as a woman. I'm just not interested in presenting as a man so the kind of androgynous clothes I wear and the bit of makeup and my general presentation make some people default to thinking I am female. Also, the more you present as the gender you feel yourself to be, be that boy, girl, or as in my case, something in between, the more people will see you as that. Most people want to be friendly. Most people want to reflect back to you what you want to present just as they want you to reflect back to them what they present. Hang in there. The world is changing and some places are changing much faster than others.

It takes some us a long time to get the IDC 'tude. While, I care how I look and what I wear, I gave up caring what people think of me when I'm out and about. Except for the few "OMG it's one of them" looks, it's mostly everyone minding there own business.

I've found that getting out and about is 90% 'tude and 10% hair, makeup, mannerisms, outfit, walk, makeup, and all that other stuff we worry about. I've been in this lifestyle for more than a few years and although I haven't yet mastered the 10% part, I'm a master of the 'tude. So I figure, I'm 90% of the way there.

Hope this helps.... remember to count your blessings as there will always be someone worse off than you and someone better... just life I guess.

Renne.....

This is really one of those lamentations of the ages for trans* girls of every stripe.

I'm not a particularly feminine guy at 5'7" and 300 lbs. My very dark hair leaves a nice deep shadow even when I've just shaved. My legs, in spite of my weight, are ridiculously skinny and I have no hips to speak of. That's a lot to compete with when trying to look like a girl. I've been doing this actively for over 20 years now, though, and I've learned lots of tricks and techniques. In addition, it takes lots and lots of practice even when you know the tricks and all. It's not an easy thing or a quick thing, but you just keep doing it over and over until you start to see the kinds of results you want to see. Plus, it takes more than just thinking about it as a part-time commitment or hobby. Each day I moisturize my face and brush my hair, check my eyebrows, and basically make sure that I'll have the base ready for the times when I do dress up - it's a permanent commitment even though I don't dress every day. Finally, the biggest key to passing is truly CONFIDENCE. You've got to own the fact that you are this person and that these are the clothes you choose to wear. You may not be at your goal, but you can choose to own yourself. Even if people were to readily be able to tell you were "male," your confidence in yourself and your ownership of your own choices will usually be enough for people to not give you a second thought.

A rough analogy of what I'm saying is something I learned once about shoplifters. They said that you should go in, pick up an item, and then walk out with it as if that's exactly what you should do and that attitude will help people not notice you just stole something. That attitude will serve you well in passing - just go out there in your girl stuff like that's what you're supposed to do. After all, for you, it is what you are supposed to do.

I hope that helps somehow.

Oh, and never feel pressured that you have to be any particular way. Don't let other peoples dreams and goals become yours unless you really want to be those things. Be the kind of girl you want to be and do it only as much as you want to do. You aren't here to please anyone but yourself and your girlfriend.

hey girl i think you look great...and i would NEVER worry about what other people think about you...let them judge you..who cares...be the best you you can be. I was out this weekend..and there were girls of all different levels, shapes, sizes, some looked great...some not so great...but everyone had fun. I understand the pressures of wanting to look your best ( try being the girl with the makeup blog in public and your mascara is running and you got some shine on your forehead) I'm judged twice as hard...I can feel the eyes sometimes...and I can never tell if they like it, accept it, hate it, hate me...and i cant tell if a compliment is real...or its backwards...but I DONT care what they think either way...or at least I do my best to say F%$* THEM...and be me and not care ...an artist is her own worst critic anyway..be you...the best you you can....we are all the same in the end..men in dresses...oh...and have fun with it...xoxo

btw...Daisy brings up a great point...my attitude is like hers I go with the attitude of 'Hey...I'm a drag queen..Love it or leave"...I guess growning up around them and seeing how they diddnt care what people thought about them, and how much confidence they had no matter if they were dressed as a woman...or in a chicken outfit they were always fab...so i borrow allot of that attitude into my cding....

I really cant stand the term "drag queen"... the mental image it draws for me is just so far off from how i actually want to be. I get what youre saying though

In all fairness, drag queen is simply an entertainer. It's not meant to be derogatory or anything. It's like people who may not understand sports who might say getting a touchdown in football is a home run. Many people are ignorant of the terminology (and honestly, we have too much of it in this corner of society as it is: crossdresser, drag queen, genderqueer, pangender, genderfluid, transgender, bigender, agender, it goes on and on).

Hey Kayla,

Totally understand where you are coming from. As people around this forum can attest to, there were 1000 baby steps forward followed by 999 steps back to where I am today, and that is still not comfortable in my own skin.

Advice from your post is as typical rock solid, from attitude , to hints on to venture out. Here is my 2 cents.

1. As Isha says, venture out to a different town to where you live and/or work. This greatly reduces the odds of getting spotted by someone you know, therefore gives you more confidence in your demeanor, making you less conspicuous

2. It summer time, hidden in plain site works best, go out during the day, wear a pair of shorts and a cute top, and find a nice park to take a stroll.

3. Try to find a transformation studio in your area. First, it will build your confidence, plus it will show you your possibilities. I went to a pro, and learned much about contouring makeup and concealing beard cover that I can never get on you tube. Something about 1:1 that makes it much better.

4. You are 18. I hate you :). Looking at your avatar photo, I don't think it will take much other than self confidence to get you where you want to be.

Best of luck. Send me a line anytime I can be of any assistance

Gretch

we are not drag queens girls....... i was just stating i go in to the situation with thier mentality......it is a game i play in my head....i learned alot from drag queens....

a few makeup tricks you would be pleased with what you see in mirror

Thank you everyone but i get the feeling you arent really trying to help. In fact some of the private messages iv got have just downright creeped me out. No, im not telling you where i live, im not emailing you pictures so you can "evaluate me" and why would you send me something saying its for makeup and have it redirect to a porn app? what kind of person do you think i am? after all of that im done crossdressing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaylaRoxx

So ive really been in a slump tonight... i was all ready to get dressed up, and i just kind of... stopped halfway through doing my makeup. I just kind of looked at myself... ugly face, beard shadow, and all, and just thought "why do i even bother?" I really want to be able to get to the point where i might even be able to go out in public as Kayla, but im just too afraid that i dont look different enough from my boy mode that i would wind up being outed, or even recognized, by someone...

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I was in your place a few years ago. 6'2", beard shadow, no expertise with makeup, and a farmer tan that wouldn't quit.

I still managed to get out. I taught myself makeup, learned about effective foundation (Cover Girl does not cover boy!) and acquired clothing that was very feminine. I learned about feminine visual cues and never went out without full makeup, nail polish, and femme everything else.

Once out, I realized that I needed to learn about feminine mannerisms and modes of communications and work on my voice. I also had to unlearn masculine habits like nodding at passerbys. Women don't look at passing men and they smile at other women!

With experience the rush of adrenaline went away and was replaced with confidence. I had gone out, I made mistakes, I got "made," and the sky didn't fall in. I began to enjoy myself not because I was simply out, but because I was presenting as I wished. Confidence turned out to be the key to the kingdom. Eventually I found that doing my nails every time wasn't practical so I keep them clear-polished and a bit longer than males generally do. I learned to dress in casual feminine styles so I wasn't overdressed for a particular situation. I even learned how to walk in heels, not because I needed the height but simply because I wanted the style. I started to interact with other people more and found that I was always accepted as I presented. Occasionally I'd overhear someone commenting on me and the comment was always "look how tall that woman is!" Note that they said "woman" which is logical because I'm obviously dressed as one and the general public is not searching for evidence of CDing as some of us do. I've even had people come up to me in public and ask how tall I am. It's just something that should be expected if you are the tallest woman in the room.

I found that being made isn't a major concern if you stay away from seedy places. Being made in a biker bar would be life-threatening. Being made at a Philharmonic concert is no issue at all because people are polite there.

Being recognized is one of my fears as well. My appearance with a wig is considerably different than my male appearance but I'm growing my hair out and pretty soon I won't look much different. Like many CDers, I maintain a "No-Fly zone," a radius around my home where I do not mingle in public dressed. I drive through the zone and have complete freedom outside of it. This isn't a perfect system, but it has worked for me.

Kayla,
Please allow me to apologize for any "raunchies". I am so sorry that there are those kind of people out there.
Don't believe that we are all like that. Most of us really are here to help & support each other

Good luck with quitting.

Friendly Hugs from Connie Marie

I know what you mean, I used to be that way too. If I didn't look 100% female and or attractive it felt like it wouldn't be worth the effort to finish dressing up, go out, or even just CD in the privacy of my own home with plenty of time on my hands. Now if I don't it is usually because I am hot and lazy but still try to put something feminine on, even if just a bra, breast forms and a tank top so at least I go to bed feeling better that I at least wore something.

Kayla,
If you really feel that bad inquire about a private makeover session to see how well you can look.
Even go to one of the specialist makeover services.
It costs but at least you should get an honest opinion.