If it's not genetic ...

I think baby birds imprint on whatever they see first that moves when they hatch. What they imprint on is what they try to stay close to during their early stage of growth. I would say their tendency to imprint is probably genetic, but what specifically they imprint on is not.

Could it be similar for humans? I remember as far back as age 2 and a half. I remember the feeling of the scarf Mom put on my head when I went outside and loving the feminine feel of it. I remember around age 4 asking Mom if I would be like her (a woman) when I grow up. I enjoyed activities with Dad in those early years, but Mom's traits appealed to me much more. I think I was probably called pretty at that time and I think I felt pretty. I wanted to be pretty like Mom when I grew up.

Do you think you may have "imprinted" on your Mom when you were very young? Did you like your Mom more than your Dad? Do you think you may have wanted to be like her at an early age? Does it seem very probable that your desire for femininity started in that way?

Your post has given me a lot of things to think about. It is stirring up a lot of memories of my childhood. They are mostly good memories.When I get things sorted out I will try giving you an answer. I can say one thing, I think you might be on to something.

Interesting thought Lela.
I have some early childhood memories of my mothers femininity, cant quite recall the detail but I do remember how important it was to be pretty. Dad always had me in the shed helping, sorting out bolts and screws and any other mundane task that oddly enough I do in my own workshop to keep good order.
I cant say that I had ever wanted to be like her or my sisters. I led a typical boys life, sport, getting into trouble, kiss chasey with the girls at school ( always ran a bit slower for the girls I was keen on).
The moment that seems to stick in my mind though was accidently watching the Christine Jorgenson story. It was on the tele when I was in the lounge playing with my toy cars. No one was watching it and I was the only one in the room. Something caught my attention and I had a WTF moment. I only tuned in to bits as I had no idea what it was about but something stuck with me and grew.....and grew.......and GREW!
Sheesh! what a drama
Cheers
Amanda (whoohoo my 100th post)

I'm not sure if I would call it imprinting. My mother was essentially crazy and beat us regularly. I can remember one time my brother and I got to stay home from school, oh joy, because the hand print from my mother's hand didn't go away on my brother's face. Yes I cross dressed from an early age . Womens lib was not kind to us in the 70s. But I loved at an early age that the clothes made me feel awesome as f'd up as that is.

Personally I disagree with your imprint theory. I think we are drawn to things that our makeup predisposes us to.

No, I don't think that "imprinting" -- in the sense that ducklings imprint on their parents -- would be a cause of crossdressing, or transgenderism. There are probably lots of guys who had similar experiences as an infant or toddler, but never have the urge to CD. I do think that most of us who are TG (CD thru TS) were probably born this way, perhaps through chemical influences in the womb. So we have the built-in responses there, and when we first feel that silken scarf, or put on our first pair of panties, it's reinforced.

At least my :2c:

It's interesting to me either way. As for Christine Jorgenson, the trans woman since 1952, I think I first heard of her during a high school class in the mid 60s. I guess I didn't think much about that because I didn't think I'd look very good as a girl in public anyway and I wouldn't want to come out to my family and I had a girlfriend at the time. I liked to CD in private, but didn't have much thought about doing it publicly. I was satisfied doing it in private.

I think imprinting is important, but not in the same way as baby birds with their mothers, driving CDing.

We imprint on our parents clearly, in most cases it's very hard to split the bond of family.

We may imprint on CERTAIN aspects of femininity. But the issue issues that arise from the theory have already been stated. Some will have gotten imprinted from a mother who was abuse, or in my case wrought with problems that made her non-functional through a lot of my life. I also had an absent father, which wouldn't explain why I do enjoy things more oriented with male hood if this was the only factor at play.

As Claire said too, an even simpler version of the problems with this theory come in once you consider how motherhood normally means that there is more contact between a mother and son in almost ALL cases very early on, that there aren't more of us.

I really do believe that it is a combination of nature-nurture but the association with mothers femininity seems to not be the primary attraction. We are probably wired in different ways, and pre-disposed. Also as the cartoon thread suggests in it's question, there are interactions with femininity that end up triggering responses. For us those responses tend to be positive. For other's it's negative. And yet for others its just what it is at face value, a fact of interacting with said part of life.

It may not the same mechanism that imprints baby birds, but I have long thought that some event in early childhood may have made a brain connection, even earlier than our ability to recall. Remember that we don't all crossdress for the same reasons. I suspect that strong internal feminine identities may have a genetic cause, and it makes sense that people with such an identity would want to dress to express that identity. Another group of crossdressers have normal masculine identities and like to dress occasionally (or often) for pleasure (sexual, emotional, comfort, etc.). Those who dress to feed their fetish would be most likely to have been imprinted, and their crossdressing not genetic-based. We can't recall anything from the first 2-3 years, but a brain connection may have been made then. Imprinting makes a lot more sense than, say, a high heels fetish gene for those so afflicted.

Hi Lela, I wouldn't rule out my mother as an early roll model at around age four 67yrs. ago.

Is it nature or nurture or some combination? i don't know and the professionals who have studied this don't seem to know either.
I grew up in a very feminine home with a mother and three older sisters. My father was a workaholic and was not home until late and would ofter be away on Saturdays also. I was dressed by my sisters at at early age when they were just fooling around. From that time forward my sexual development revolved around dressing in lingerie.
So, was there an impressionable young male waiting for a strong external influence to become a cross dresser? I like female company and will gravitate to the ladies group at parties. I also have strong memories of being fascinated by women's clothing and makeup. I would love to watch makeup being applied and I follow the same routine when making up myself.
So what made me a cross dresser? Those early childhood influences had to play a very important part but was there something in me that dictated my sexual development? I wish I knew.

I like your "imprinting" concept, and I believe it fits well with my theory that cross-dressing is a form of synesthesia.

During our first 3 years the brain is developing neural connections at a very, very fast rate, 700-1000 neural connections per second. Neurologists call this synaptogenesis. In fact, at this stage we have many more neural connections than at any other point in our lives. We also have a lot of nonsense neural connections, and then there is another process called neural pruning. It is believed that through the learning process we prune many of the nonsense connections and reinforce others.

If during the first three years of our life we relish anything that is associated with contact with our mothers, it will be imprinted into our brains. The imprinting process may also include some sorts of female envy, and in any case, the brain associates cross-dressing with actual contact with a women. While most men can wear some women's clothing and feel nothing special (except humiliation, and embarrassment), others, with the right neural connections will feel contact with woman. That causes an immediate, and involuntary response where the brain releases neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and others) which produce sensations of well-being, comfort, pleasure, sexual gratification and bonding. Yes, the reason why cross-dressing makes you happy is because of the neurotransmitters.

So, to be a cross-dresser you need to have your brain hard-wired for it (the biology), you have to have some positive experiences imprinted (the psychology), and you need a trigger to take the step to do something completely irrational.

Unfortunately, we all lose the memories of our first three years. It is called childhood amnesia. So, it is very, very difficult to find the psychological imprinting that contributed to our current condition.

Lose all our memories from the first 3 years?

You might need to make that the first 2 years. I definitely remember numerous things that happened when I was 2 and a half. It relates mostly to things that were being done on increasing the size of our house. And I remember some of the people involved in the work. I saw dirt being removed from the basement, Dad's uncle and cousin working on the rafters, Dad nailing a sheathing board on the side of the house with me thinking I was helping hold the board, my uncle building the brick chimney, and Mom cutting shingles from a wheelbarrow for Dad to nail to the house. When Mom put her scarf on my head, I may have been younger than 2. It's a more vague memory, except that it really felt good.

You all are providing more interesting statements than I expected. Thanks much.

Actually, current research suggests both a genetic component to gender variance, as well as probable hormonal issues during pregnancy.

I don't think its genetic, but something that happens to us in the womb. Sometime after the chromosomes take over, as we all start out gender neutral. The hormones take over. their first job is to decide who we are. Either to make us feminine, masculine, or mixed. The same thing about who we will love. The reason this happens is because of being gender neutral so that our egg does not know what chromosome our father will give us. Then if something happens that the hormones did not do their job right we end of trans other wise we would be born cis gendered.

If you mean did I want to be loving and nurturing the answer is yes and I've succeeded in being that even as a guy. :battingeyelashes::)

Again, this would have to explain why 99 of 100 male children didn't imprint on Mom.

Imprinting allows a baby bird to attach, usually correctly, on it's care giver. So far as I know, however, male ducklings don't go on to emulate their mothers as adults.

I know i learned a lot from my mother thru the years but not sure about the Imprinting. I've felt this way for as long as i can remember honestly.


Tina

Every new born that can imprints on their mother, or whoever is the primary caregiver. As kimdl93 asks this does not account for the vast majority of people (and other mammals) being gender normative, or, as I prefer, cisgendered.

Most of us have fond memories of our mothers from early childhood. Most of us do not have the same memories of our fathers from this time. And yet most people are heterosexual, gender normative, and not at all uncomfortable with their sex.

I am often surprised why there is so much interest in this forum on why we are the way we are. Are gay males, lesbians, bisexuals so interested in why they are the way they are or is it just the T in the LGBT that is so curious? And why? Are we reluctant to accept ourselves as who we are? Do we think if we could find out we could somehow fix ourselves and just be ordinary heteronormative cisgendered folk?

Just asking. Sometimes a lot of what I read here reminds me of talk I heard among gays and lesibians 30 years ago.

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Originally Posted by janetcgtv

I don't think its genetic, but something that happens to us in the womb.

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Maybe that's what happened to me. I took 10 months to pop out. Back in the 50's they didn't do C sections like they do now.

Again, you're looking for the one, true reason why we crossdress. And there doesn't appear to be one. Each person is the sum of our genetics as well as our experiences. Our brains aren't stamped complete when we are born, we continue to develop throughout our lives, and exactly when we develop the feeling that we should wear the clothes of the opposite gender will vary as well. You can argue until you're blue in the face about your own life, and how you believe it defines the condition for everyone, and I understand why you may feel that way, but really, it's different for everyone. What I have learned since coming here, is the huge desire to put the responsibility for crossdressing on someone, anything else but ourselves. And that is a result of our societies trememdous pressure on men to avoid ANYTHING feminine in our behavior at any cost, even to the death. To be feminine has always been the absolute worst thing a boy can be. So we look for anything to alleviate the concept that we are in any way responsible for this.

Hi,

Imprinting ....sorry not a show or possible , i was born different and that was there long before i was born the imprinting is in fact our program just before conception and it can go ether of three ways at conception male , female ,or intersex, and there are some differences there as well, though the basic is one of three ,

mine was intersexed , and that is what i am cant be changed no matter what , now wether i had a father or not had no bearing on my life I did not have a father,

i was brought up by my Mother and allso we had her Mom and Dad for 7 years with us ,

i did not lean to wards my mom as your saying in how my life would go , I was and am my own person as to being what i am and that has been through out my life, i did not copy or follow others , and no influance by others in being what i am as an intersexed person ,

The imprinting as you say did not apply to all birds as i keeped pigeons for years and no matter thier Mom dad or other feeders i was there at birth made no difference at all so long as thier gob was stuffed full of food they did not care one bit , and they would sit on my shoulder when i was with them or cleaning out the loft, both inside the loft or out aside,
Young or older ones , Oh and by the way they were lovely to have and i spent lots of time with them , Yea really quite neat.......

...noeleena...

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Originally Posted by devida

I am often surprised why there is so much interest in this forum on why we are the way we are. Are gay males, lesbians, bisexuals so interested in why they are the way they are or is it just the T in the LGBT that is so curious? And why? Are we reluctant to accept ourselves as who we are? Do we think if we could find out we could somehow fix ourselves and just be ordinary heteronormative cisgendered folk? .

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From a GG POV, I suspect this is because gay men attract other gay men and lesbians attract lesbians and bisexuals have a very large dating pool! But heterosexual crossdressers very rarely attract the partners they desire - heterosexual women. That's a huge, life-altering issue so I'm not surprised many here wonder why they are the way they are. Wouldn't most people wonder why they're driven to do something that repels the very partner they seek??

Just a thought :)

Actually I've heard plenty of gay men ask "why am I this way?" What else can one ask when faced with the loss of friends and family for simply being who you are?

Believe me, I can relate to those feelings.

Paula, I thought about that in my comment but at least these gay men who feel shame are still attractive to their desired audience, and I thought of transexuals in my comment too, but then assumed you'd ultimately appeal to the partner you desire when fully transitioned? You're either a straight woman or a lesbian, but still appealing. Maybe not everyone can handle the journey you took to get there, but outwardly you still present as that which your future partner desires. The male crossdresser, on the other hand, is an enigma as he desires straight women yet he presents as a woman. Trust me, that's NOT appealing. There's no logic behind it, hence the endless questions here.

Surely the question a transexual asks is 'why was I born in the wrong body??' Rotten luck, I'd guess. Life randomly deals this out to people. The crossdressers answer isn't so easy - so far, there isn't one!

I'll give the thread back now...:)

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Originally Posted by devida

. . . I am often surprised why there is so much interest in this forum on why we are the way we are. Are gay males, lesbians, bisexuals so interested in why they are the way they are or is it just the T in the LGBT that is so curious? And why? Are we reluctant to accept ourselves as who we are? Do we think if we could find out we could somehow fix ourselves and just be ordinary heteronormative cisgendered folk?

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Funny you should mention this Devida. When I first started seeing a "gender identity therapist" this was central in my discussion. I wanted her to explain to me "why" . . . why should I want to dress like a girl when I am guy. She would never give me a direct reason (a few floating hypotheses) because there is no agreement in the literature or for that matter a true body of literature on what makes people crossdress. She did ask me why I was so fixated on finding out why and was it because I was hoping that by identifying the root cause I could somehow fix it. It was at that moment that I realized my inability to move forward and accept me (including Isha) was due to my incessant drive to find out why. So I gave up trying to explain it and accepted it. At that point I found true peace and was able to continue in my journey.

Hugs

Isha

It is not at all important to know how we came about; the only thing that is is that we are as we are. I realize that we are curious as to why, but it is far more important that we cope with the situation as best we can.
The comparison to the imprinting of baby birds is assuming that humans (or any mammal, for that matter) are born the same way as chickens; obviously untrue. Then there is the matter of gestation; ours takes 9 months, birds 2 to 3 weeks, so our imprinting would have to take place in the womb.

It's totally important that we know "why" - but it isn't so important for us as individuals. Our lives are set, and we live in a world that hates and fears us, depending on our degree of variance from the norm.

But look, it's very, very likely that the issues we face are naturally occurring developmental and genetic issues that are totally beyond our control, and that society's views of us are cruel. We aren't deviants, nor perverts. We aren't protesting our roles as men - at least that's not why we do what we do.

These are medical conditions that usually manifest to some degree in childhood. We are being punished for conditions we never asked for, that are beyond our control.

We need to make them understand "why", not for our sakes, but for the sakes of the children yet to be who'll be born with gender issues. They need to be able to live authentic lives - and I'm not just talking about transsexuals like me. Look - if CDs could really be free and accepted by our society, you'd be able to find spouses who accepted and loved you for who you are. And it would be easier to FIND them, because they wouldn't have to hide who THEY really are.

What society does to us all is wrong, cruel, and monstrous, and children will continue to suffer.

And that's the reason that "why" matters. They need to see their cruelty, and understand it for what it is.

As I have mentioned before, I didn't know little boys didn't wear frilly dresses and wear their hair in pigtails until I was six years old and started the first grade.

Try going from ringlets to a butch haircut at six years old.

Talk about a life changing experience.

I believe in free will to a great extent and, even if I didn't put much thought into the matter, I think I did decide at an early age that I wanted to be much more like Mom than like Dad. I think that because I remember some of my thinking back then. I also identified with "feminine" back then, meaning how I should look, not so much how to act etc.

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Originally Posted by LelaK

Do you think you may have "imprinted" on your Mom when you were very young? Did you like your Mom more than your Dad? Do you think you may have wanted to be like her at an early age? Does it seem very probable that your desire for femininity started in that way?

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Not in my case, although I was close to my mother when I was young. For me, a desire for protection and shelter from the world, coupled with isolation, magnified my senses and made me seek out some sort of sensual expression that would make sense to me…
:o

I feel deep down that we don't know what might have been imprinted on our genetic makeup at birth. I know certain animals can be imprinted especially baby ducks, kittens, and even just maybe humans. I do know I had a problem of mom wanting a girl for her first kid to the point she had sewn home made dresses for me before I was born. She let my hair grow and dad finally put his foot down and made her cut my golden blond locks off. She secretly painted my toe nails till I was around three. She let me play in her makeup. She even took some of my baby pictures all black and white, shows how old I am now, while I was dressed in gowns and dresses she sewed. Dad finally imprinted me by making her stop around the age of three to four. He started me with being with him around the farm. In my teens I started back to playing with her nylons n girdles and panties and then her makeup again. This was when I was big enough for my parents to be gone and me by myself. I discovered guys could be aroused by the silky under garments, but that part is a whole other story... Lol

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Originally Posted by PaulaQ

It's totally important that we know "why" - but it isn't so important for us as individuals. ...

What society does to us all is wrong, cruel, and monstrous, and children will continue to suffer.

And that's the reason that "why" matters. They need to see their cruelty, and understand it for what it is.

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You might be right. I think that gays and lesbians achieved much more social acceptance and much more rapidly when the social consensus changed from homosexuality being seen as a lifestyle choice to same sex attraction being hard wired. Perhaps being transgender needs to be understood in the same way. Some commentators believe that society's general consensus on being trans has hit an inflection point based on this very understanding, that gender identity is no more a matter of lifestyle choice than same sex attraction is. I hope that this is true. I worry that (mostly) male hatred of transgender people (particularly mtf trans people) is so visceral that this might be difficult. But then I had gay friends 40 years ago who thought the same. I recall Dan Savage saying just a few years ago he didn't expect to see gay marriage in his lifetime. So maybe we should feel more positively about the decency of ordinary people.

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Originally Posted by Claire Cook

No, I don't think that "imprinting" -- in the sense that ducklings imprint on their parents -- would be a cause of crossdressing, or transgenderism. There are probably lots of guys who had similar experiences as an infant or toddler, but never have the urge to CD. I do think that most of us who are TG (CD thru TS) were probably born this way, perhaps through chemical influences in the womb. So we have the built-in responses there, and when we first feel that silken scarf, or put on our first pair of panties, it's reinforced.

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Adding to what you said, Claire. I think that with so many that try to hide crossdressing but are still drawn to it, that is something innate or built into our personality. Otherwise, more people would be able to "will it away."

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Originally Posted by Claire Cook

I do think that most of us who are TG (CD thru TS) were probably born this way, perhaps through chemical influences in the womb. So we have the built-in responses there, and when we first feel that silken scarf, or put on our first pair of panties, it's reinforced.

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The problem with that is, genes don't predispose us to clothing or materials. They can, however, predispose us to behavior, but then that doesn't get addressed until that behavior is consciously acted upon the observations we make.

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Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG

The male crossdresser, on the other hand, is an enigma as he desires straight women yet he presents as a woman. Trust me, that's NOT appealing. There's no logic behind it, hence the endless questions here. <snip> The crossdressers answer isn't so easy - so far, there isn't one!

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Actually, that's correct, in a fractured sort of way; there isn't ONE. There are MANY different answers. It's kind of like standing at JFK airport, and pointing out to all the different vehicles; motorcycle, car, bus, truck, helicopter, boat, plane, and asking which one will get you from new york to philadelphia. The answer is, all of them; but they all get you there in a different way. Logic has nothing to do with it; clearly, if we consciously want to attract women; well, straight women, we should be dressing and behaving in masculine ways. So, something is getting screwed up while our personalities are developing and learning appropriate behavior according to the society in which we live. Then if the role pattern behavior we learn conflicts with who we are attracted to, and who we want to attract, you have a mismatch that won't be corrected subconsciously, so the conscious mind tries to resolve it, but the underlying feelings are still there, leading us to feel a need to behave and appear as females, yet also wanting to attract them. Then the dilemma because there's no way to resolve the mismatch.

The enigma exists only if you believe it is a choice to want to crossdresse, as opposed to making the choice to actually do it in response to that desire. Otherwise, reading these forums, there are many different paths that lead us to become crossdressers.

I empathize with the desire to know why we crossdress. I've spent more hours than I can count seeking the answer myself - still wonder occasionally. I think a far more interesting question, though, is: What would you do if you had the answer? Is there an answer that would allow you to hang up your heels and quit cold turkey? Is there an answer that we could point to and say, "See, it's not my fault!"

I suspect that deep down we hope that it's genetic so we can absolve ourselves of the guilt we feel and gain sympathy because we can't help it. Even if that's true what do we really gain. Are women the world over going to say, "I want me a genetically defective cross dressing guy."? Are half-wits going to stop verbally and physically assaulting us? I think we all know the answers.

I've heard it said that gays and lesbians have gained wider acceptance because society has come to believe they were born that way. I disagree. They enjoy wider acceptance because they put themselves out there. And as young people began to know their friends were gay it has become no big deal. In short, prejudice is dying out. We will only achieve that level of acceptance by leaving the closet and the first ones to do so are going to suffer.

To be honest I still want to know why. In absence of THE answer, though, I am happy with the simple truth of my life. I am transgendered. It's not my wife's dream come true, but she loves me and supports me to the best of her ability. My children support me. Sometimes it causes me strife, but I love myself. And I love being transgendered, even though I can't tell you why. The rest of the world doesn't have to understand, or even like it, but like it or not I'm real. How they deal with it is their business and I'm under no illusions that if CDing is genetic that haters are going to change.

Yes. My mother used to dress me up as a girl before I was old enough to know it. She decided to tell everyone in the extended family about this in papers she wrote before she passed away. I'm not real thrilled about that but there's nothing I can do about it now.

I do remember her using me as a model for dresses she would sew for her brother's children. I was probably three or four at the time.

She really wanted a daughter but had only sons. I can probably put the blame on her for my crossdressing.

When I was young, I spent more time with my mother, learning to cook and bake than I did with my father. My brothers preferred to learn woodworking from my father, while I preferred to bake cookies. It took me a while to realize that most boys didn't want to wear dresses and work in the kitchen. I still prefer feminine pursuits to male hobbies. My big regret is that I never learned to sew. My grandmother was an award winning embroiderer, and I have taught myself some embroidery, but I'll never be in her class.

I don't buy the imprinting theory. I think transgenderism (the whole spectrum from cross-dressing to transitioning) has biochemical origins.

I had a very good relationship with my mother and grandmother when I was young, but I also had a very good and close relationship with my father. As a young kid, I wasn't particularly "girly" in my everyday life and didn't enjoy stereotypically-female activities like cooking or playing with dolls.

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Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG

But heterosexual crossdressers very rarely attract the partners they desire - heterosexual women.

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I think heterosexual cross-dressers cross-dress despite wanting to be with women. IMO, there's some underlying biochemical cause in the brain of cross-dressers that makes them want to cross-dress.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Again, you're looking for the one, true reason why we crossdress. And there doesn't appear to be one. Each person is the sum of our genetics as well as our experiences. Our brains aren't stamped complete when we are born, we continue to develop throughout our lives, and exactly when we develop the feeling that we should wear the clothes of the opposite gender will vary as well. You can argue until you're blue in the face about your own life, and how you believe it defines the condition for everyone, and I understand why you may feel that way, but really, it's different for everyone. What I have learned since coming here, is the huge desire to put the responsibility for crossdressing on someone, anything else but ourselves. And that is a result of our societies trememdous pressure on men to avoid ANYTHING feminine in our behavior at any cost, even to the death. To be feminine has always been the absolute worst thing a boy can be. So we look for anything to alleviate the concept that we are in any way responsible for this.

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Exactly. If I can rest assured that I had no responsibility in this, did not ask for it. Then it eases some of the pain and guilt that comes with it. Lately I've been trying take responsibility. No one made me do it. I did it, although I don't feel I made a conscious decision to. I was compelled to it. Compelled by what I don't know but ultimately compelled by me.
But is society's take on it as bad as we make it out be? I was recently out in broad daylight earlier this summer. Went into family restaurants, malls, etc. Believe me when I say I was definitely gauging people's reactions to me. And you know what, they're weren't really that many reactions to gauge, if any. Now, what they said after I left is really none of my business.
What I am saying is until I really went out and saw for myself that I'd basically created this big bad bogeyman, I never would have known he was made of straw.

Sometimes I felt like wow, is the rest of society kind of moving forward on this and leaving me, the person who is affected by it, behind and shackled in my own guilt?
Don't get me wrong, there is a long way to go and you still can get fired, lose friends, etc.

I can't really buy the "imprinting" idea, this gets into that whole "nature versus nurture" issue and the most obvious and famous case is the David Reimer case. Here is someone who was nurtured as a girl for almost all of his early years and yet never identified as a girl, not even remotely.

Does anyone know of any cases where someone was born male but nurtured female and they accepted that gender identity? I'd love to read about it.

~Mel