Working through thoughts after counseling

Hey,

So, I figured I'd chat with you all and get some opinions... I'll paraphrase a good chunk of this for the sake of time: I've been dressing since I was like 5 or 6, and have always struggled with it and hiding it. Ultimately, the reality is at this point I'm only hiding it from the general public and co-workers, as my family, spouse, and a good majority of my friends know. For the most part, I'd say I have about 75-80% support on this part.

The issue that comes into play is right here: when I do it, I really can't stop myself. What I mean by that is this: I have documented past incidents where I would go out, go shopping, and spend too much money. All you need to know is that the amount spent was not normal. That as a result opened up a whole can of worms that is a whole other story.

I've been seeing psychologists and counselors and all those things, and we've for the last little while been treating this (on my suggestion) as an addiction, based on how, when, and why I do it. When I went through all my little CBT stuff and was showing when I had urges to dress, scenarios, etc - the session essentially stopped, and she just switched the whole train of thought: If I could go out in public, walk into a coffee shop, and just be dressed, would I do it? And, is this something I want to change for me, or for everyone else, because if I'm doing it for society, it's going to ultimately fail.

The other question she posed was the one people would ask a lot: are you happy being a man?

The first answer, for me, is that I totally would go to a coffee shop, if I could, and not get beat to a pulp. The second, is a tricky one for me to answer, and I'll explain in a minute. The last question, what I said to her, and where I really am today, is this: Over the years, I've definitely wanted to just grow my hair out, maybe even get implants or something, and just live that life. But at the same time, I haven't been able to 100% in my head confirm this is a route I'd go, and as such, I can't justify it. I'm not sure if I am not 100% yes or no because it's not for me, or because I'm scared of what could happen.

That part about stopping for me or others is like this: I am married, and I have a wife who is so incredibly supportive and will do anything to help me in any way she can. I could gush over her endlessly, but just know she's super awesome. About a month or two after we got together and she knew, she invited me over to her place to do girly stuff. So, she's that kind of person. The thing is, over the years, I still continued to hide this part of me and lie about it, even though I knew she was ok... so it got to the point that it had to no longer be a part of the picture. To be perfectly fair, I absolutely, 100% brought that on myself, so I won't put her in a negative light because of that. However, I know if I were to embrace this, it'd be this over her, which is hard because I would love both! But if I look at it like an addiction, I know it will consume me like crazy.

Anyway, with all that, I'm left with these scenarios:
- Treat it like an addiction, and get help stopping doing it for good, which is hard as I've done it for so long and love it.
- Accept it within boundaries, which is really hard because I don't think boundaries are going to work long term as I still end up hiding things.
- Accept it with no boundaries, which would mean I'd likely have to move about 5-6hrs away (or more), restart my career (which at this point, honestly, may not be too tricky as I've got a fairly solid resume, and could in theory start my own company if need be), and my marriage would be over
- Consider and possibly transition, which would be essentially the same things as Accepting with no boundaries in terms of consequences.

As a footnote, I'm actually in a fairly level-headed space right now, and just trying to sort through everything, so I can at least get real opinions from others who actually live this out already. I've been working on stopping, but after those questions, I'm now really just curious as to how I should approach this, because while a lot of these questions posed aren't new to me, I've never honestly figured out an answer. I know end of day that answer is from me and me alone, but again - hearing real people tell real world scenarios? Definitely helps me a lot.

What do you all think? Also, if you have any questions, feel free to inbox me.

Thanks everyone!

Emma, some of these are questions that only you can answer, dear.

You can try to treat it like an addiction, but so far I haven't met anyone who didn't go through hell trying to deny this inside themselves. Most people who have, have either "returned" or self destructed... or in my case, almost self destructed until I stopped denying this part of myself.

You can accept it within boundaries, but "boundaries" is a personal thing. Sure, I'd love to dress all the time but in our repressive society it's simply not acceptable in most places, certainly not in the West Texas town I live in! So I dress at home, with my beloved lady (who also accepts this part of me - wow that really helps!) but when it's time to go to the hardware store or grocery shopping I put in my guy duds and we go that way. This is where I live though, with boundaries, and it "works" after a fashion.

You can accept it without boundaries but you have to be willing to pay the price you mentioned. This is all personal to you - is it worth it? If it is, go for it. If not...

Consider transition - see, that's where folks have different ideas of "transition". To me, that means living fully as a woman, but not necessarily having surgery to "finish the job" so to speak. There are people who will disagree with me on this, who would think that you have to finish the job to really transition. Again, that's a personal thing, only you can answer it.

You really need to sit down and make a list of pros and cons of each step, and also talk it over with your loved ones and get their opinions - will they support you if you go all the way, or will they decide they can't do this? You need to know all the variables before you make a decision. I'd also suggest talking with people who have transitioned as well, find out what the gains and pitfalls are.

You've probably already thought of all this already, perhaps this is just validation. It really does simply come down to how much you're willing to give up to gain what you want. But you have to ask yourself "Is this really what I want?" as well.

~Mel

It sounds to me like your problem is something other than crossdressing. It might be a good idea to try and figure out what the real problem is and work on that.

Very few can treat it like an addiction and just stop. It is a part of who we are and that is very hard to repress.
To fully transition is also very difficult, unless you're TS. Then you are denying your male side.
Somewhere in between there must be a point that will make you happy.
Speaking for myself, I know over the years I set certain boundaries. Over time I have stretched and reset the boundaries as conditions changed. At first I was happy being a closet at home dresser, then I allowed myself to go out to CD friendly events. Now I've amended that to going anywhere I want to as Nikki, but I try to keep the two personas separate in who does or does not know. I don't think I'd ever out myself completely to everyone or want to transition, but, then again I've moved further that I ever thought I would so I'll never use the word never.
Basically what I'm saying is you need to find an equilibrium that will satisfy you.

emmajames,
I just read this post from Jacquilynne in a Closed Thread:

.."All this is to say. . . I feel you are correct in reality most SOs would rather not know that their husband presents as a woman even in secret! See they married a man and being deeply emotional women their perceptions of the husband and man they married wanting in some way to be a woman WILL change the way they look at you forever and this IMO can NEVER be erased!

That is why those who have an accepting SO's should hold on to her for dear life and find ways every day to tell her how much you love her and appreciate her . . . as this kind of unconditional love and acceptance in a relationship is rare!

As has been also touched on . . I too now wonder if it would have been best to bear my burden alone.

And in my experience honesty can be costly!

This bring up another point for more discussion:

If we feel we can't be honest and open about our secrets to our SO's and if we have to hide our secrets in guilt does that not make what we are engaging in morally wrong? Like sinning against one's conscience. And conversely does it make it right if we are "in their faces" and openly flaunting what once was our secret?"

emmajames, What is more important to you? Let your CD'ing CONSUME you; transition; move 5-6 hrs. away; restart your Career, etc. OR LOSE your super awesome wife whom you love?

When my wife learned of my "perversion" (her word) she demanded that I get "fixed". I, personally, felt that therapy was a waste of time for me. I adopted the "addiction" belief and, eventually, left therapy to tackle the issue alone (no support from wife). What I have come to believe about myself is that, if it is an addiction, it isn't, necessarily, a bad addiction. I love to dress and don't hurt myself or others (my wife would disagree with that, of course). I guess that accepting one's self is the biggest issue. The world at large will never accept what we do. With good fortune a spouse may (you have been lucky there), but we need to accept ourselves first.

Your story sounds a lot like mine. I also thought it was an addiction. I thought having thoughts and feelings of wanting to be a girl were just an absurd fantasy. I spent hundreds of dollars on clothes, make up, shaving products, wigs, etc. and would just throw it all out the next day. I hid it and lied about it to my wife and on and on. I found this website because I was trying to find a "cure" on the internet. At first I thought I was a CDer, after many agonizing years I finally admitted that I needed to transition. Life is WAY better now!

That's quite a first post Emma... I have to say, being only a tad TG and fortunate enough to satisfy my needs with a small amount of girliness every month, I feel inexperienced to advise on the question of potential transition, other than to say if the thought doesn't completely freak you out (as it would me...) then that probably is something that needs to be explored in more detail with an experienced gender counsellor.

As for the buying splurges - that could well be addiction, and is probably something else that needs some serious counselling and discussion. I would have thought it would be impossible for you to be definitive about any future course regarding family or career until those two issues are much better understood, if not resolved.

Stop spending money shopping and spend it on some experienced and recommended TG counselling if you can find it... This is not a simple question or group of questions to answer, and the resolution is likely to be complex and impactful... I wish you luck... :)

Katey x

You said you overspent when you went shopping. But you do not say if you compulsively cross-dress. Perhaps this is two different problems. Maybe you are a shop-aholic, addicted to shopping, and a cross-dresser.

Does the urge to cross-dress overwhelm you and cause dysfunction? Does the want to cross-dress and to be in public consume your thoughts? When you are not dressed does the lack of cross-dressing cause dysfunction in the bedroom?

Sometimes the word"addiction" is thrown around to casually.

But, even if you are a dick did to cross-dressing it doesn't mean you have to give it up 100%. I am an alcoholic, at one point in my life I was drinking a quart of scotch a day. Now I have my drinking under control. These days I drink once year, just when I am visiting my old boozing friends back inChicago. It depends on your own level of will power.
Basically, I got sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Emma,

I read your post, and was really moved by it.

I too struggled with the concept of cross dressing as an addiction. The thing is, I have dealt with addiction before - I'm a 24 years sober recovering alcoholic. And trust me, my need to cross dress was hundred's of times stronger than any urge I ever had to drink.

What I came to realize is that I had it exactly backwards. I was not addicted to dressing like a woman - that was not what was making my life unmanageable. No, quite the opposite. I came to realize that my addiction was pretending to be a man, and to live my life as one, when I'm just NOT one. That I was powerless over my gender - I can't get rid of the feelings because they are ME. The male mask I wore my entire life was a lie, a sham. It was built for my own protection, but in the end, it was literally killing me.

Even if you don't reach the same conclusions that I did, please do understand that you are powerless over your gender. It is an indelible part of you. Short of destroying your mind, I do not believe there is any way to fundamentally alter it.

You will never permanently lose these feelings - so it seems to me that you are doing the right thing by trying to understand what they mean.

And for a hint at what they mean, I'll use your own words:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emmajames

Over the years, I've definitely wanted to just grow my hair out, maybe even get implants or something, and just live that life.

---

If you'd like me to follow up on this, let me know in thread, or via PM. I've been in transition for nearly 1 year now. I'd be lying if I told you it was easy. But I am myself now, and alive as never before.

Emma if I may deal with the problem of overspending, given the chance most of us would spend too much. I have an enforced limit because I don't use a credit card solely because my wife can't track my spending, so I only use cash which is a good way of controlling your spending.
You say Cding started at 5-6 years but not how it started, I know mine is sexual and wish to share it with females, so I understand basically what my CDing is about. You have an understanding and caring wife but for some reason you're choosing to exclude her from your dressing, do you or the therapist know why ?
I feel you're hung up on the addiction problem because you haven't thought your Cding through, you don't know where you want to be with it so your brain is pulling you in different directions. I also feel that you are more into CDing than wanting to transition, most of us have thought it could be a possibility but the trade off of losing everything for something that may not work out brings you back to reality.
The fact that your wife is OK with your dressing has left you without boundaries, you will struggle to set your own because your CDing doesn't have any direction, it's something she will have to help you with.
The simple fact is your Cding won't go away, you'll do more harm by thinking you can control it enough to stop.

Try looking up some of Reine's threads in " Loved Ones" when you have past your 10 post restriction. She has some interesting comments on achieving a balance with you CDing.
We may not be qualified therapists but the advantage we have is we've all been there and lived it, which is worth a great deal !

Finding yourself and being that self is the important thing. The "window dressing" is optional. ;):)

It seems, you have assume that your CDing and compulsive spending are inextricably linked. These coexist, but CDing doesn't cause compulsive behavior. Of course your therapist may see excessive spending as a coping mechanism for repressing your desire to live more openly. Could be. Those questions seem to be leading in that direction.

Your addiction analogy may reflect your self image...seeing CDing itself as a character flaw.

You have begun to sort this out, and perhaps envisioning various is helpful, but you have imagined too few possible outcomes. In particular, you may be underestimating your wife's ability to accept and support you'd, despite her earlier demonstrations of support. No matter what course you end up pursuing, leave yourself open for surprises.

I would be worried about saying anything that mite influence u, Emma. We know too little about u, your situation, and your family connections.

If u can't come up with the "rite" decision on your own, with professional help? Maybe u have the wrong professional.

Great thoughts. You are brave to be processing these things. I don't like thinking about them too hard. I feel similarly, but I can't see myself transitioning. I fear commitment. : )

Hi Emma. I have read your post and a lot of what you are pondering I believe most of us have at one time or another. Luckily for me clothing is not a big issue (purchasing that is) as I have a very pragmatic view to dressing and keep my wardrobe small but interchangeable. I have placed boundaries on my "girl side" but for the most part as I explore and accept Isha, those boundaries stretch and break. I never thought I would go out in public but now I go just about anywhere I would "en boy". I never thought I would let family (with the exception of my supportive wife) and friends know. Now they all know. I never thought I would let work colleagues know but now quite a few do. I find boundaries are a good position to start with and as you explore your TG side you will know when those boundaries can be moved a little further to the right and you will know when they need to stay in place.

As far as transitioning, that is question only you can answer in concert with your therapist. Being introspective is great (it is how we grow in our understanding of self) and asking opinions is a great way to examine your own self thoughts. However, you are seeing whom I assume is a gender identity therapist and you should work with him/her understand your gender identity and how best to approach it. Advice given by many (including myself) is particular to our own experiences, life, circumstances and whatnot and may not necessarily translate to you. So please be very cautious about taking advice from lay people . . . yes examine our experiences in relation to your own, digest it and then go to your session and discuss. I take this approach in my own counselling and it has helped immensely to bring order to chaos in my own life and being TG.

Hugs

Isha

Wow, Emma, have you given us a lot to think about -- not to mention everything that must be going though your mind. I'm always uncomfortable about giving advice, and can only give you my perspective, which is similar to Isha's. I do not consider my TG to be an addiction; it is who I am and it is part of me. Accepting that -- and not hiding it -- has probably been the major calming and balancing part of my life. Wait -- belay that -- make that second to my wife! Thinking of being TG as an addiction implies that it can be "cured", and I don't think it can be "cured" any more than being gay can be "cured".

So I am probably somewhere between your #2 and #3 -- my boundaries are very flexible. Sometimes they are fixed, sometimes they are expanded, and I am comfortable with that. What I have found that this has added to my confidence and comfort no matter how I am presenting -- but this is just what works for me. As Isha has said, professional help is the best source of advice, especially on questions of transitioning. And do remember that we are all different, and try to find our own paths.

Oh -- about clothes. I probably now have more female stuff than male stuff -- but regard them all as my clothes. Fortunately our local GoodWill's and consignment shops have good stuff a low cost -- so I still spend less than my wife!

Emma
I feel for you. I have been facing many of these issues. I go out regularly and have come out to most of my friends and family. I will be living a large part of my life as a woman. I am taking steps toward that every day. It has not been easy. I think we know if the steps seem right with us. I have been in therapy through this period and it has helped immensely. I have finally found myself. But there are problems. It has been tough on my wife. But today we are ok and that is what matters. I can't figure out tomorrow. Try to breathe and let go! You will be ok!
Hugs
Suzanne

Hey, and welcome Emma!

Oh my, we are all so different and then not. When I first "let it out" of me I went on a spending spree. I wanted multiples of everything girl. It took a year or two for me to burn up the pent up emotion, and after that I became very, very level headed. The amount I spent on girl stuff in the last year I burned through in a week when i first got to dress.

Now, I have a second home which is a mini-mecca of all things femme. While there I girl out, or not. It does provide me the outlet I need to maintain my balance. I only get into trouble if long periods of time pass and I am not able to dress.

EJ:

Glad you have decided to join us. It is an interesting place and people have all kinds of knowledge and experiences.

As has been suggested, the fact that you crossdress and that you sometimes go a bit overboard with shopping may not be strongly related. Could be that it's 2 things that just happen in close proximity to one another, so they appear to be joined. To me, that would be one expectation I would have related to counseling. I would hope that eventually it would be fairly clear if it was one problem or 2 independent ones. It may just be that it is a very unhappy intersection.

Transitioning is a different deal. From the way I see it, one has to be so uncomfortable in their body and so mismatched to their current gender role that transitioning is seen as the only real remedy. That doesn't sound like your situation. And for the record, I believe transitioning relates to how you live, who you believe yourself to be and how you interact with the world. Surgical alterations are optional.

At some point, we all have to come to the realization that we crossdress. This occurs for a myriad of reasons, but it is a part of us. When we speak of control, it is control in that sense of anything else in our lives that we control, or attempt to control. And, everything that we do has consequences, such as one to many desserts or one to many cocktails. So, whatever we do has a risk and reward associated with it. Unfortunately we can't always balance that equation properly. Sometimes we put ourselves into situation where we invest in too much risk for a marginal gain, but it may be difficult to understand that when we're in the middle of the situation. For us, consequences can involve family, home and our livelihood, so we're playing for very high stakes. That's why counseling can be a powerful tool because it is much harder to fool someone else compared to ourselves.

Hey everyone!

Thanks for all the words of wisdom and advice - and I apologize for the lengthy delay in response. It's fascinating how everyone has a different story and scenario, and it's why I enjoy the internet, because you can sort of get a collective thought from different points of view and life.

For the most part, this is something that I've really been struggling with to some degree since around summer 1998 (go life and being able to remember things like that), so I've really been processing it for a while, but never really PROCESSING IT. It's now come to a point where I just need to do something, decide, and move forward.

The more I break it down, the ultimate outcome is I do it or not. And I know it's up to me to decide in the end. The most touching thing that was said to me lately, by someone incredibly close to my wife and who wants the best for us, was this: "try and get through this and move forward. ...and at the end, if it didn't work, you at least tried." The big thing is that if I see this as a sort of thing I do in specific scenarios, I can in theory try and alter the behavior. Simultaneously, if it's something that is just clearly part of who I am, and that's the reality, it'll inevitably happen. There's just no way around it. So, that's why I like to get outside thoughts, from people who actually have been in these shoes, so to speak. Counselors and therapists can say so much - people ACTUALLY DOING IT? That's a fairly equal help in discerning things. And as someone mentioned before about transitioning - that's where I'd be at a loss too - would I just dress full time, or go full blown HRT? So many factors!

One part I really struggle with is figuring out if these thoughts are conflicting because there are too many and I didn't settle on one yet because I'm scared, or if none of them are real answers and I can eventually stop.

And to clarify that last part, alongside the rest of it: as said earlier, I've been doing this to some degree my whole life... so, the eventually stopping part? I have some reservation with it, and I know many here would just say "go for it" - but it does freak me out to know that if I did it, there'd be no turning back, and if it's something I can subdue, ...it'd be awkward to not subdue, act on it, and then find out that was the best scenario for me all along!

Sorry Emma I've only just read your reply but when you read other members thoughts after therapy I some times get the feeling that they are being persuaded to be the person the therapist thinks they are and not who they actually are !
I had a couple of sessions but stopped when my wife refused to take part in the sessions, I also think the UK has a more sceptical view of therapy.
I'm sorry you're still confused about the right decisions but I still think the chances of stopping are small if you've CDed for so long !
I know I never considered stopping, the only thoughts were how to live with it but I do remember when things were really bad holding my head and shouting ," For God's sake leave me alone " !! When it nags at you every day, people don't believe you or understand that !
I think you have to learn to live it, hopefully get enough acceptance and enjoy it without harming anyone else !

Emma,
I would go with the flow and accept boundaries you do not need to jepoardise your marriage and your working future.
Think about it.

One small but important thing.... Don't ever, ever, tell yourself that you only have a small number of options and you HAVE to choose one of them. That is pretty much never true and options, possible choices, are constantly changing. Just one incident in your social, family, business life or a new medical diagnosis can change, limit or broaden your entire future. We all have to make decisions but we need to tailor them to fit the flow of our lives not just the way we see things right now.

Emma - you may think of it as an addiction, but my take on it - and talk to your therapist about this - is that it is more a form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. It is some thing that going back to your CBT and WORKING HARD AT IT you will learn to control. Every time you get this urge to overspend,drive away, walk away from where you are, and use your CBT skills - and this is crucially important - on paper, to work out risks, benefits and outcomes.

Practical tips? Carry small amounts of cash, enough for daily needs, except if you are out with your SO.
Get your credit card company to reduce your credit limit per day to a reasonable sum, if they will do so.

Take time each week to go through your feminine wardrobe, make sure everything is neat, clean and well cared for. Why? Because it will help you to realize just how well of you are, and give you an incentive to amke the best use of what you have.

You are a CD maybe even a TS, and you have an addiction with shopping and you are ashamed and hide this from your love ones. Am I making this to simple.

Go out to a coffee shop dressed as you like. You may find out that nobody beats you to a pulp, or does anything else that is hostile. I go to restaurants lots of times.

Emma, I really feel for you. I am in a similar quandary: How far do I need to take this? My advice would be to take it slow and really think about what you want. You should probably get help for the compulsive spending; that's likely going to be easier to deal with than the gender issue.

I don't know where you live, but I think in most places in North America and Europe you could walk into a coffee shop dressed as a woman with absolutely no fear of "getting beaten to a pulp." Maybe you should try going out in public and seeing if you like it? It might help clarify things.