How do you feel when you're "out with the boys"?

Inside, I'm pretty girlie. But like many on this forum, I have a lot of boy interests...and a lot of male friends to go along with those interests -- absolutely none of them who know or would even suspect that I am TG. This past weekend was spent with four of my good friends in a bit of a throwback weekend (lakeside cabin)...something we do from time to time. Lots of booze, late nights, trash talk, and, invariably, a few manly barbs thrown around with gusto: "Don't be such a girl!" "I'd rather go out with a transvestite!" "Put your big girl panties on!"

I think you get the point. I've got decades of practice deflecting these types of testosterone-fueled remarks. But I always end up being a little embarrassed...sometimes if a barb is directed at me and hits a little close to home, I know I can get a little red-faced.

Do you ever deal with any of this? Aside from the tell-all strategy (which isn't going to happen in my case), how do you deal with and deflect these types of comments?

It would be priceless to see the looks on the faces of my friends if I were to 'fess up. But the blowback would be huge, and it's not an option.

I get pretty stressed leading up to these types of events...I'm careful not to shave a damn thing for weeks/months, etc. It's a shame, because I really enjoy the friendship, camaraderie, etc.

Any thoughts appreciated.

I feel like this constantly. My friends are very much the same way and it frustrates me. Despite many of them knowing it still happens

I can get red-faced too when something really hits a soft spot, but usually I try to throw something extra vile back at them. Boys are competitive! :D

That being said, I don't start with remarks that are based on gender I only reply in kind. There's not much else you *can* do, unfortunately.

Stephanie, that's usually my strategy as well. But I'm toning down on responding to cd barbs with another cd barb. I think it's somehow being dishonest or betraying the cause when I respond in kind. So I guess I'll try deflecting with an alternate genre of insult, if that makes any sense...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bridgette Ross

"I'd rather go out with a transvestite!"

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What a coincidence....me too! lol

I don't really have any guy friends...i always moved a lot and never really
got close with any. But it'd be So nice to have friends I could be honest
and open with.

The guys I have hung out with, though...it wasn't going to ever happen.

Strange thing....many of them were seemingly nice open minded people....
but get a bunch of them together in a pack and they're completely different.

I wasn't going to fit in. I may as well go home and dress up....lol!

:)

Kate, you're right...it's the pack mentality that's the worst. Individually, probably all my friends are pretty open-minded, and odds say that at least one or two are probably in my camp!

It'd be so much fun to see a few dozen CD's together in guy mode
and hit a few of those manly-man bars.

They'd all be loud talking about heels and dresses and yelling and
drunkenly calling each other "tranny" this, and "tranny" that,
while the rest of the bar fell into dumbfounded silence.

I think i'd hang out with Those guys....lol!

Although I can chew cigars, drink and swear like the rest of 'em my preferred company is not a bunch of guys. I'd rather be with a bunch of women any day. They use less energy and accomplish twice as much. :battingeyelashes::)

Honestly, though I played the part convincingly, I was never comfortable around groups of guys. I never had many close male friends either. A very select few. When I was with them part of my mind was always thinking they would somehow suss out that I was not really one of them. If the subject of CDs and TG came up, I would always deflect it by remarking that I had seen some that looked so good I would be tempted. This ALWAYS provoked most to agree with me. And it always turned the conversation from one of disparaging CDs and TS to one of more serious appraisal. It was amazing what that small comment did to diffuse the competitive testosterone fueled bravado that had created the offensive barbs. I suspect way, way more males are secretly attracted to "girls" than ever let on ... until someone else opens the door conversationally. Lol
Of course, what male friends I do have are never the kind to be terribly close minded or bigoted anyway. I have never really hung out with shallow sorts. That does make a difference I am guessing.

Hi Bridgette, When I'm with the guys I am as manly as any of the other guys.

If I am out with a group of guys I am the girl. Just saying.

I do not really go out with the guys ever.

Hi Bridgette,

It is funny in a way as most of the guys I still hang with (good friends of any consequence that is) all know about Isha. So when remarks like that pop up from time to time as they are want to do "Don't be such a girl" is a good example there will be a moment or two of awkward silence followed by a simple "Present company excluded dude" :) For the most part I don't take any notice of the remarks as they are what they are "words". Now if someone was going to start slagging the TG community writ large in a mean way then I would have words.

Hugs

Isha

I don't hang out with guys much. I have only a couple of close male friends and they are not at all the stereotypical beer-swilling sexist boors depicted by the OP.

I prefer to hang out with women, whether GG or trans. I just feel more at home with that crowd.

Count me in the group that would rather be with the girls. I've never been comfortable "going out with the guys".

Hi.

I had to work under quite a few men over the years and none knew as far as i know that i was female , yes i learned thier langauge just never took it on i can talk about many things they do , do thesame work as well hey i was trained ,

remember im a builder by trade so had to work along side the guy,s some were quite lovely and were good mates yet thier were times i walked away because thier talk was about us and what they would do with us in the sexual detail , that was one of the hardest issues i faced, had i said i was female . yea well wont go down that track ,

now, i have men work with me and along side and i can call the tune as im the one in charge , and as a woman the langauge is okay they know what im like and some goes back some 10 years of cause they dont have issues with me and im respected and get on well with them ,

So for myself and how i was first seen and to now is very different could i go out and be okay with men around me yes we do at our week long camps some 250 of us men and women , and really its quite lovely being treated as normal and accepted .

My interacting with men has changed over the last 10 years or so , i have changed dramaticley ,

I cant say i understand why though it could be as iv grown as a woman the dynamics have changed so much .for myself i wont say i understand men i dont yet for all that , its really lovely and nice to be where i am now compared to 46 years ago big difference,

The comment of when with the mates you are as manly as they are , = okay......

So do i have male mates , oh yes for sure,......do i trust them, yes and they have said they would look after me , so there you are,

...noeleena...

I have never liked when the discussion among a group of men turns this way. I feel a bit uncomfortable. Even before I (at least overtly) knew I was TG.

I can play the part pretty good. I can spit and chew, drink beer and moonshine with the best of them. Shoot the biggest deer out of the group every year and no one would be the wiser. The guys that I run with have no clue about Natalie and they never will. I do get tired of the remarks and snide comments after awhile. It is much better to be around their wives sometimes. :)

I too dread the times I must be with the guys. Most of them are nice guys in a one on one meeting, however when more than a few gather then pack mentality kicks in, and I become more uncomfortable. I have always sought the groups of women at gatherings and enjoyed their company instead. I have always felt like this since my earliest years.

Oh gawd yes.
I absolutely dread football season, for that reason exactly.

Out of place, I feel the same when I am around a lot of woman, or a mix group, the only time I feel accepted is when I am out dress which is not often a enough.

Bridgette, I have never had guy friends that hang out in bars or the like. Most of my guy friends are from the sport car races or church and civic groups and all are a pretty moderate and polite bunch. Do we sometimes sit around and drink beer> Sure, but the conversation generally doesn't veer into the macho man area.

I guess it just depends on what part of town you came from (no offense intended) as to how men try to prove themselves, or feel the need to try. I think it depends on how comfortable one is with ones self as a man, just as we talk about being comfortable with a fem side of us.

My 2 cents!

Hugs, Bria

I don't say anything at all when such comments are made. But, this reminds me of a movie (Out of Providence) where some blue collar boys are playing cards and somehow start pressing the issue of one of the guys possibly being gay. It starts out with George Wendt saying (paraphrased) that if someone wants to be gay why not he isn't hurting anyone? This leads to the guys ganging up on him, accusing him of being gay.

Luckily, I've never had this kind of pressure from hanging out with the guys, but the possibility of that happening is what prevents me from hanging out with the guys very often.

I just realized last week that if I go to a friend's cottage on the lake my shaved chest, legs and armpits could become exposed for 'the guys' to take notice of. I've been invited and I love swimming etc. but I'll either have to keep my shirt on or stay home.

Bridgette, I think it would be good to ask yourself why you pretend to be someone other than yourself in order to be with with a bunch of people that would harm you, at least emotionally, if they discovered the real you? I know that crossdressers often have low self esteem (I certainly did), but you may be happier overall if you left that group and found kinder friends, or challenged their friendship by revealing your true self.

On a previous job I was brought in to replace a woman in a six woman office. It was WONDERFUL, and likely had a great influence on recognizing my own gender issues. I could talk and relate with the women so much more comfortably than with guys, but that's not the topic of the thread, is it?

You will find wonderful support from the dear ladies on this forum, regardless of your choice.

I don't have any male friends, and that's essentially for all the reasons you mentioned in your O.P., Bridgette. As a result, wondering how to deal with all those verbal jabs is a non-issue for me.

Yes, I did have male friends when I was younger and I bonded to some degree with work colleagues - you know, for political reasons and "strategic alliances" in order to survive in the cut-throat corporate world, but that was out of necessity and never because it did anything for me personally. Thankfully, I am retired now and can put all that B.S. behind me...

I was never much into "bromances" and all the competitive, testosterone-fuelled trash-talking nonsense which that entailed. Besides, as I got older and more secure in accepting my particular gender orientation, I found less and less need for external validation of the "maleness" that I still inherently possess.

It has been over four years since i have been out with guys. I am a recluse mostly. I am not comfortable with people much anymore. My cats are my friends. Since i moved from the Seattle area, back to my home of origin, I have not really made any friends, and the 12 step group near here, disbanded. Being with a group of guys just does not appeal to me much anymore, like it did decades ago. i wish i could become social again, but being poor, and isolated does not help. Most people today, i would not want to be friends with. i have lots of acquaintances , but no friends. My brother mad fun of the soldier who helped Wicki Leaks, that revealed he was a woman in a man's body. I didn't say anything.

I do think about how shocked they would be if they knew, but I seem to separate my girl side from my boy side. When I am a man, with the guys, I am a man and don't give it too much thought.

The guys that I run with, well, we have a good mix a lot of us are white collar or blue collar, some self employed, some not. We all have know each other for 20-25 years or more. Yep, we have a history. We talk about a number of thing. The outdoors, sports, business, stocks, wives/girlfriends, etc. It seems that when we have a guys weekend or are hunting together that most turn into 12 year old boys for the week. That is the part that bothers me the most.

Some great replies to my question. Thank you to everyone who responded. Yes, like others who chimed in, given a choice, I am more comforable in a group of women. But a point of clarification...my friends are not boors. They are, like me, pretty well educated and open-minded. There is never anything remotely sinister about any barbs that come up about TVs, TGs, etc....if anything does come up, it's always said in a humorous way, without malice. We are, after, Canadians...we love everyone! (OK, maybe a little bit of a stretch there). The point is that I LIKE my male friends...a great bunch. I don't want to ditch them, as MsVal has suggested. Further more, I don't think it's a good idea to shun one group of people in favour of another...that makes us a little hypocritical in my view. No, I see it as my job to work through any discomfort in the conversation, and I'll continue doing that. However, I definitely see Isha's take as the ultimate solution. It's just that it wouldn't work for me at this stage in my life.

I have a lot of guy friends.. and sometimes I think they know. Would make it easier if they did!
Don't 'hang out' with them much tho', as I enjoy my time as Ashley around the house with the SO!
I really enjoy the occasional 'ride around town', but getting 'out' of the house is a chore.. Either the kid is home or the neighbors are too close..
Winter is better for that early evening darkness.. Shoulda' moved out in the country!
When the barbs do come out from the guys at golf, etc. I just kinda' ignore it.. Inside I'm really girly..

I've always felt like the "outsider". Always trying to be part of the "gang" yet feeling like the last kid picked to play the game.
It was always frustrating trying to fit in with the guys and being that round peg in the square hole. It's funny how even with the same interests I never felt like I belonged. Yet when I'm with other CD's, etc I feel accepted and welcomed.
All that testosterone stuff is so over rated.

I've never felt like "one of the guys" and am uncomfortable in groups of guys. I'd much rather hang out with women. Maybe that's why I'm here! Lol!

Most of the guys I'm acquainted with and spend any time with don't make disparaging remarks about anyone, so I don't have to contend with that thankfully. They don't tend to get caught up in the macho contest, which always strikes me as an exhibition of insecurity.

It all depends on the group I am with. There are some guys I can say "What is the problem with those kinds of people." "There are things all around us we don't like or understand and we let it go." This group knows me as an accepting person of other views and feelings. So little is talked about after that. Other times, I have had to leave the room, use the bathroom, see what is in the kitchen, go join another activity. It has never been thrown back at me and it is a lot of my own personal discomfort, trying to feel out the conversation to see if it is directed at me that makes me uncomfortable.

I used to work in a store that had many TG, CD, TV that would shop. Other guys would make comments and it would be uncomfortable. I would tell them that regardless of what they looked like, it took a lot of courage to be able to do so and that should be respected more than shamed.

By your comments, is it possible they suspect your fem side and are trying to egg it out of you? Put your big girl panties on...sorry, guys, there in the wash at home.

Nice discussion....I too don't have any really close male friends. The male friends I do have, have waaaaay too much testosterone, and can be brutally boorish at times. I tend to ignore most remarks and let it slide. I am much more comfortable around women and always have been. Most times I find my male friends get into a p*issing contest way too fast, always trying to out do each other, drives me nuts!! (Now, I have heard women say the same thing about groups that are all female, but have not experienced that first hand).

Erin

P.S. my wife is a HUGE football fan, so I loose her on Sundays when the season starts. But I have started to follow along, mostly to spend time together. Interesting gender dynamic in my house ! ;)

Like many others here I don't have many male friends and those that do tend to attach themselves to me rather than the other way around. As such most of them are able to talk normally about various subjects, usually themselves as I am a sympathetic listener. Interestingly almost everyone of them made comments about me being ' a bit of a woman'.

What I do find is that men as a group act differently then as individuals, no great revelation that. I do hate the boorish aspect when some get together. But it varies and in any case I avoid those types.

All it takes is for one woman to be in the company for much of that to be dissipated.

I do have to say that most male conversation for me is quite painful and a huge effort. I hate it at parties or events where women are there in numbers and I see the only other man rushing towards me in desperation. No I don't want to talk to you about finance, cars, football teams you support and all the rest. Go away!

But the truth is that while there are some boorish guys out there. As a rule the rest of the guys rarely approve of it. I remember once one guy talking about having sex with his girlfriend in detail. There was a stony silence and when he went away there was general headshaking and an agreement that a man should never discuss something like that, particularly when we knew her. A generic former and unidentified girlfriend is fine but not the one we all know and like. Thank you.

I'm with BlueOrchid. When I'm with the guys, I'm comfortable being "One of the guys." There are many masculine traits/qualities that I still cherish and enjoy, but I just enjoy some of the pretty feminine things in life, too. Maybe I don't identify as strongly as some others?

Justine, that probably sums up my experience as well...love being a girl and a boy; pretty comfortable being one of the guys. And to be sure, these types of playful comments don't come up much, nor are they targeted at me exclusively. It's just that slight feeling of discomfort when something comes up like this. And the feeling of not being quite faithful to the cause if I respond in kind...I do think we have somewhat of a cause, don't we? A sort of "we're in this together" thing where we should make some attempt to push society into a more accepting place for those of us who are TG?

There is an interesting theme here - good question Bridgette... :thinking:

I have a few, close male friends that I am more than happy to spend time with talking different aspects of life, the universe, everything... One thing I definitely don't do is groups or 'packs' of males - I can concur with what has been said before about the majority regressing to pre-teen behaviour very quickly and no, that doesn't make me want to be part of the gang...

I'd much rather spend time with my wife and anything I can't do with her I'll do alone if I can... never been a problem for me being an only child... :)

Katey x

Now don't read me wrong. I like squeezing off a 50 cal round at some Tannerite as much as the next guy. I just don't have a need for a posse of buddies in my life to validate my masculinity.

I enjoy hanging out with my friends from time to time, especially going to games, hunting or fishing. When I'm out with them in guy mode it's like a wall goes up inside to keep my inner lady shielded. Boys will be boys and my male persona is quite thick skinned.

I have never been a big fan of "being out with the boys". The conversations and attitudes are usually very shallow and often sexist. This has always made me uncomfortable. Too often "one-ups-man-ship" is the seems to be the main intent. I enjoy various sports and other activities but I also have other interests. The upshot of this is that I do not participate in activities such as you describe.

I hang out with a very carefully selected group of male friends. Mainly engineer and artist types, well educated, who talk mostly about technology, culture and the day's news and very rarely venture into typically "male" subjects like sex, sports, cars and guns. We also tend to have pretty liberal social attitudes, as a group, and would quietly (or not so quietly) correct one of our clan if they made a disparaging remark about someone's race, nationality, religion or sexual preference. Not that we can't have enlightening conversations about those subjects, but it's done without value judgments or prejudice for the most part. Living in a multicultural, liberal college town has probably made it easier for me to assemble a group of friends like these. I am not "out" to any of these male buddies overtly, but they've probably gotten the hint from the long nails and permanent makeup. :)

There are sane, sensitive, respectful, intelligent men out there. Find them and make them your friends of choice.

- Diane

Hi,

Okay i,v touched on this a few times so an answer would be lovely. How embarrised would those here of you who have answered how you are accepted seen with those men you have spent time with say around sports or out back or the pub crawl work and what ever you do , and most of those men would / could be quite harsh or as often said redneck,s,

How would you feel around some one like my self........ stop and think about it , more than likely you,d not wont to be seen around me , let alone introduced to your mates , what would they think of you even though im from down under,

While i was in Austraila and i was told there were many rednecks in Tasmania and i would not get on very well and i should not go there, okay ,,,,,WHY not.

Im a member of 2 Brass Bands and we have over 70 members only about 20 of us women , oh yea thats right i dont look like one , did that detract from most of the men getting along side me ,oh and a bloody Kiwi as well , the women have no issues, and i play with them and it was just so neat being with them , so were are all these rednecks,

so if i with my disadvantages can be accepted and asked to stay , then does this not show some thing amiss in how acceptance is there just its not a given that those of us who are different cant be accepted as well ,

........ Dont forget my > ?........

...noeleena...

Unfortunately most of my close guy friends grew apart maybe deep down
I let it happen because of my dressing but I work in a very male dominated
business and the jabs do fly but it is I. Fun no insults intended to do damage

I have no problem being "one" of the guys, and I thoroughly enjoy it. In fact I'm probably playing with fire but I'll bring up issues to stir the pot while not outing myself. Like I said, I'm probably playing with fire.

Noelenna mentioned that she didn't like some of the sexual tones of the male conversations, that's fine but do be aware that women can be just as bad and maybe worse. I've experienced that first hand also.

I have noticed at work that when there is a woman present, usually, the tone of the conversation goes up in class and the swearing drops drastically. I consider that a good thing. I say usually because I've run into female employees who are absolutely disgusting.

Just some thoughts.....

I don't have male friends with whom to hang out. The thought of a gathering of guys is very negative to me.

Yes, I do/did.

My 'dude' friends now accept that I paint my nails and wear girly things. How did that happen?? By wearing painted nails and girly things.

I'm 6'2", 235#, BIG shoulders. NOBODY will mistake me for a female.

I wear sandals (which show my painted toes), girl-pants/capris, 'pretty' tops. They don't even BLINK.

If they are REALLY your friends, they won't care honey.

- MM

I don't really hang out with a groups of guys and haven't since I stopped drinking years ago. Where I live now there are not a lot of people of either gender I would really care to spend that much time with. There is just way to much bigotry of all sorts around here for me. A few years ago there was a younger guy who grew up around who was gay and he lived across the street from us. He had AIDS and everyone in town knew it becaue his parents would tell people. I liked him, we had some things common and would go over and talk to him and kid aroud with him and then I had to endure a lot of talk and insults just because I was friendly with him. Among them was something about me putting on a dress and joining the other team. That's where I live I have to just deal with it.

When I was younger and still would go out to party I did all the typical guy stuff. Made crude comments and jokes, but when cd/tg comments were made I was never comfortable with it, but I never said anything to disagree with them. (I would now and have). I neve liked football so that led to some commens to me over the years and some of the things that were said to me always made me wonder if somehow they knew my secret.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brenda.Clark

Now don't read me wrong. I like squeezing off a 50 cal round at some Tannerite as much as the next guy. I just don't have a need for a posse of buddies in my life to validate my masculinity.

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Amen Sista!!!

I am one of the boys so when I am out with them, it's great. I shave my legs and my friends know it. On a rare occasion when one jokes (and it is just a joke) "Are you going to start wearing dresses?" or such, I have replied, "I've got the legs for it." or "As soon as I can find a nice pair of high heels in my size." The point is, it is just joking around. I don;t take it personally and I never feel ashamed about my cross dressing because of some lame comment a buddy makes. It's ok to be a guy with the guys.