Going out . . . A balance viewpoint

Hi all,

I have noticed that there has been a few posts about "going out for the first time" and advice is being sought on how best to approach this. Of course the big concerns of all first timers is How do you deal? Where do you go? What do you do? Most here will say "own the moment, hold your head up, display confidence" others will say (myself included in all these statements BTW) "people won't notice, people are too busy to care, people will generally be nice". For the most part these are all true and you will find the biggest barrier to going out is your own reticence. However, having reviewed a lot of posts on this subject current and past (mine own included :battingeyelashes:) , I had to ask myself . . ."Do we give a balanced view of going out when dispensing such advice?"

Those of us who go out decided to do so for various reasons the same that those of us who don't go out decide not to for their own reasons. Is one stance better than the other? No, because we all have to do what is within our own comfort zone/personal situation and there is no right way or wrong way to Crossdress. Some will go out because it gives them a high and it is fun, others will stay home and dress and achieve the same high. However if you have reached a point where you plan to go out, then the advice given is this forum is generally sound and good. But I have found that in reading past posts, some of us who post (myself included) tend to sugar coat the whole thing with "sunshine, unicorns and lollipops"

Yes for the most part you will find that going out in the Vanilla world is basically a non-event. People get so wrapped up in their own lives that they don't notice the guy in a dress or if they do, it is not important to them so they don't care. Some people will post that they "passed" because nobody said anything while others will talk about blending :). However, the cold hard reality IMHO is that with the exception of a minutia percentage, none of us truly pass or blend well enough to survive first contact. That IMHO is what a lot of advice on going out fails to mention. Don't get me wrong it is a not a "lions, tigers and bears . . . oh my . . . grab the pitchforks and torches boys and get us a CDer" :devil: moment. It is however a fact that people notice . . . after all we are men wearing women's clothing and it will seem odd to some people. :eek:

Does this mean you should never go out or stay behind your door? Absolutely not again absolutely not. However if you do plan to go out you do need to prepare yourself for what awaits and you do need a thick skin. People will point, people will giggle and you may even get some rude comments. These are all things you need to weather to get to that point where you "can own it" as many advise. Owning it takes time. You need to build up your confidence by getting out more and more. So don't be ashamed, hurt or confused if you run back to your car (or never leave your car - as I did :)) on your first few outings and go home tail between legs (no pun intended :heehee:) wondering why you can't "own it" like others have suggested. Remember, most of those who state that advice didn't just dress up one day in a skirt and heels, grab keys and purse and head to the mall sweeping through like some runway model in Milan. Noooooo . . . they most likely did what we all do, cautious baby steps to build up confidence. Gaining comfort with your own presentation outside of the home is paramount. Once you reach that stage where you don't care what others think then you will be able to breath and just enjoy being. However, will that mean people will stop staring, pointing and giggling as you go by? Nope. The difference is you won't care. :battingeyelashes:

The other concern . . . Is there the potential for violence? A few folks her have touched on it and I think it is a 300 pound elephant in the "outside in the world" room that we choose to ignore for the most part. IMHO I think we would be naïve not think this is a distinct possibility depending on the situation and venue. My absolute first time out with my wife (her first and last with me) was a poor choice of venue and could have escalated into a serious physical confrontation (luckily it did not). The lesson I took away from that is choose your venues wisely and even in what can be considered "safe venues" a healthy sense of caution and situational awareness is a good thing. You don't need to run through the Vanilla world scared but caution would be well placed as we do stand out. Now before some here crucify me as a "doom and gloom naysayer", I think we owe to those who seek to go out to be honest in what awaits. Yes it can be exhilarating to just walk in the day of light among people and when it is good, it is good and you will experience no greater joy in life IMO :). However, never lose sight of the fact that for some who see you it may seem odd, weird, perverted, vile and whatnot and they could act accordingly. So a healthy sense of caution is never a bad thing to have even while you are "owning it".

Hugs

Isha

Well said Isha. What one wishes for and what is reality can be two different things.

Very good post. I will only comment on the safety aspect.
I have been going out for thirty years without incident. This DOES NOT BY ANY MEANS imply that it is always safe to do so. However, god granted me a good dollop of common sense.
Geography has a lot to do with it. There are less enlightened places that some of you will never be able to go out in. Sad but true. Know your demographic! I hate to use the words redneck, and good'ole boys, but we know who they are. Be aware. If you live in an unaccepting area, go to New York for the weekend.

Alcohol and men ANYWHERE are a bad combination. Really, just stay out of the places the lowest common denominator is likely to hang out. Leave hob nobbing with the riff raff for drab days. If you feel you must go to a bar, I recommend choosing a place called 'Ciao Bella' that serves $11 belini's. Or a gay bar. Don't be shy, gay bars do not ask your orientation as a condition for entrance.

Darkness is the enemy. I hear so many on this sight talking about going for a stroll under the cover of dark. Bad idea. The baddies are out at night, and the good folks can't see that you need help. If you care to go out and walk in the fresh air, do so in a park, or a tourist attraction, in broad daylight. If it's cold, try a museum.

Do not, for God's sake, carry pepper spray. It has been proven over and over, to escalate a situation. By the time you have dug thru your purse, lined up the invisible arrows, and told your attacker to stand still, four feet from you...you get it. Carrying a gun is just so...American, I can not comment on it.

Be aware. It sounds so simple. Enjoy your outing, but keep a eye on your surroundings. Who's behind you? Do you feel comfortable here? Growing unease is your mind telling you something is wrong. You can always abort, go home, and go out another day. Trust your gut.

To some degree or another, in most places you can plan a fun outing. Just use common sense. If that fails you, remember that any place a woman would feel uncomfortable, will not be suited for you.

Enjoy, and stay safe.

The first thing I learned when going out in public is that one must be very careful when approached by a man.
If he thinks you fooled him for fun, maybe questioning his "manhood", you could be in serious trouble.
I went to a bar once and this one guy whistled when I walked in. I sat down at the bar, had a drink, and left. As I was going out this guy jumped up, came on over and grabbed my arm. Well, I lift weights, a lot of weight, and he figured it out pretty quick that I wasn't the demure lady he thought I was. You couldn't tell I had big arms because I had a blouse and a jacket on, but the look on his face said it all. He made a fool of himself in front of his friends, so he thought.
I left quickly and never went back to that place.
Yes, you've got to think as a women does in order to stay safe. If you go out at night ALWAYS park in a well lit area.
Stay safe and have fun.
As far as "passing", you are correct to a point. Walking my dog while dressed I get whistles and honks. Believe me, nobody was taking me for a CD.
The MOST IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTE TO PASSING IS ATTITUDE. Either you've got it, or you don't.
Two tips: short heels and not too big a bust.
Have fun, it's what it's all about.
Thanks for the observations and advice, Isha.

Isha, thanks for a good reminder of some of the basic principal of going out and about. I also remember one of your post many months ago when you mentioned that one needs to have an awareness of the surroundings and an escape (or withdrawal) plan in case the unexpected happens, part of your tactical military training I believe.

If I have misstated this because of foggy memory (I am past 50 when the memory starts to go) please correct me.

Hugs, Bria

Thank you for this Isha. I truly enjoy reading your posts. As the title promised is a balanced view of the world outside our doors.

Hug
Rita

I only feel safe in shops, restaurants, movies, concert has when dressed

well put thanks Isha!

I have been out several times never had a problem think i blend quite well. But I still get the butterflies, Im so concerned about what my neighbors will think don't know why but it is usually a block for me to get out. Once I'm out and away from my hood Im fine have no problems going about my alter egos biz interacting with people and enjoying myself. It might be one thing if i had a house with a garage where i could just get in my car; with out having to parade my self to the condo parking lot.

-d

Well said, Isha!

Awareness, of surroundings and situations, is one of the keys, like several people mentioned. On the flip side, no need to be paranoid and think every laugh is aimed at you or that people are all standing around staring, pointing, or ready to come after you. I really do think a lot of people don't notice and/or just mind their own business. Just be smart and be prepared. Like my mother always told us kids whenever we were heading off somewhere, "be careful and have fun!". :)
Handled right going out and about can be wonderful.

Hey Isha,

If I can add my little observation, is there not one thing that, perhaps you overlook. We, and I mean people like us who have the training, experience and wherewithal to handle an 'adverse' situation do not rate it as high as those that do not. Having spoken to a few others, this is a major part of their fears. IMHO, I'm a little reticent to discount our different perspective.

Life is fraught with risks. You mediate them or avoid them no matter how you present. One thing we have to deal with is a perception by the outside world that has been perpetuated by the media, as a TG we WANT a man. So there are guys out there who take that to heart and assume that any man will do because after all all you really want is...a man. I avoid those types of places as much as possible. Most women avoid those same places. Usually a simple "no thank you" will be enough.

I do recommend that anyone out for the first time go with or meet others so you have a pack. Doesn't matter where you go...bar or restaurant or theater. Have someone to have your back. Be aware. You are now a target more than you were before. Don't dark in the dark or far away. Women know this. Other precautions may or may not be used.

"We" are teenagers in the world no matter how old we really are. We are 16 and going through everything a 16 year old woman would be experiencing. They do what I suggest, they travel in packs at that age. They learn from older women where to go and what to do. We have that here so use that. It is a big world and we need to find out how it works. It is easier when you have a teacher.

When it comes to going out, perception is the reality. If people treat you well, and call you ma'am, that's enough. It doesn't matter what they think as long as they treat you well. That's passing.

I continually find it odd how many people debate the whole safety issue of going out. Could you possibly be hurt while going out cross dressed? Yes you can. It is possible.

I had a kid pull a gun on me once in my life. It was terrifying. He was some young teenager who thought he was a big tough guy and he would show me what was up. I happened to be in my car and I drove away quickly without incident. And surprisingly I was not dressed as a girl. I was in a fight once. I was a stupid kid, acting stupidly. And again, I was not dressed as a girl. I have had many things stolen from me throughout my life. And never once did any of it occur while I was dressed as a girl. I have been yelled at, flipped, off, followed in my car by others, threatened repeatedly, and none of it has ever occurred while I was dressed as a girl.

Does that mean that I will never get attacked while dressing as a girl? It is a pretty big fear of mine and I pay attention to that fear and I approach the world in an intelligent manner. And in ten years of going out, never once to an LGBT friendly place, I have only simply had a couple of rude looks and comments.

No it is not because I pass so well. Trust me, while I am in my hot pink tennis shoes, my tiny daisy dukes, and tank top, with my shaved head, and mini goatee, people are fully aware that I am a dude in women's clothes!

Hey, guess what? The world can be a violent place, with violent people in it. But also, the world can be a fabulous place, with fabulous people. Which type are you?

As usual Isha, your post nails it so there is very little to add. The point is fun can be had going out enfemme. Just use common sense and situational awareness.

I do not go out as I am in a small town, less than 10,000, and would be recognized in a heartbeat. Then I would be fired. We have a work clause about bringing negative attention to the company.

Unfortunately in these times we have to be aware of our surroundings at all times no matter how we are dressed. Act confident and that will help. When dressed I believe it can an element that can invite trouble with narrow minded people.

For those that go out do you feel more comfortable in a certain party of the country say west coast vs. south and how do you feel about the attitudes of big city vs. small?

In going out 'off-gender', we are taking risks. Depending on where you live, this could mean nasty comments, or it could mean baseball bats. A sister has to evaluate the risks out themselves. Nobody else is walking in those heels, only they are.

But at the heart of it, it is about identity.

I'm a militant advocate for being who you are, regardless of the opinions of mundanes. Note that 'bigots' and 'supporters' are not mundanes. Mundanes are 'average folks'. They are the Mom at the grocery store with a kid in the cart, they are the guy at the auto parts store, they are the folks at the mall.

Going out is an act of courage. It is exposing yourself to risk & harm. Nobody here is going to judge you poorly for being cautious. I have never lost a physical fight in my life, but I still evaluate if I'm wearing a skirt to the grocery store or not. Not because I'm afraid, but because I don't want the hassle/confrontation.

My wife asks me "are you wearing that out?" not because she doesn't like what I'm wearing, but because she recognizes that I'm taking a risk.

We are *challenging* gender assumptions, dears. We are rocking the boat. We are making people uncomfortable just by being ourselves. Will you/I hide because we make a stranger uncomfortable?

I can't answer that, only you can, hon. No harm, no foul.

Quote:

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Whether I'm right or whether I'm wrong
Whether I find a place in this world or never belong
I gotta be me, I've gotta be me
What else can I be but what I am

I want to live, not merely survive
And I won't give up this dream
Of life that keeps me alive
I gotta be me, I gotta be me
The dream that I see makes me what I am

- Sammy Davis Jr.

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- MM

Wow good comments so I will add my two cents worth which in today’s economy may not be worth much.
First I agree that with the exception a very few lucky one we will not pass 100% of the time and probably a lot less. There will be something that doesn’t look right, the way we move, stand, sit eat drink pretty much anything we do there are slight differences between male and female and given enough time and contact we will be read. The key is the first 5 or 10 seconds as that is where most people will size someone up. If you are successful here they may not pay attention to you or look closer and go on with their busy lives. To me that is passing.
Second is a smile as that always helps
Third is places you go will have an impact on if you can as we say blend enough. When I first started going out I would check out the place first and see what other woman wore and then try to match it. females normally don’t go to the grocery store in a tight short dress, evening makeup and spiked heels. This makes you stand out and people look closer.
The last thing is how to choose where you go. Before I go someplace I ask 2 questions. First is this a place a single female would go by herself? If I answer yes to that I ask if I had a daughter would I feel safe or want her going here by herself? If I can answer yes to those two questions then I feel I can go there as Susan. I would never go to a biker bar but I would go shopping or to Starbucks

I'm certainly not passable, but I do go out dressed en femme and always with my SO. Years ago we just went to a few GLBT bars in the Akron, Cleveland, Ohio area and never had a problem. For the last few years, we attend a monthly Girls Night Out at a bar called the Funky Skunk in Warren, Ohio. It's about a 26 mile drive. Never had a people problem there and always feel welcomed. I did have to stop and put some air in a tire once at a gas station while dressed and no problems at all.

We also go to a long weekend event called the Erie Gala, put on by the Erie sisters in Erie, PA. The only problem I had there was when someone hit my car that was parked in front. I changed into my guy clothes and went to talk to the police. When I got back to the room, I realized I forgot to take my makeup off, but still no problems!

This is certainly enough going out for me! I'd never go to a mainstream place fully dressed en femme though! I guess I'm just too chicken!

It's posts like this that make me very happy to be here, really top notch, Isha!! If I ever go out, I'm taking you with me!!! You might have to take the lead though....
Hugs
"Chicken Julie"

Excellent topic, with a great start as well as wonderful comments and followup.

I have never been directly confronted, but there are a few times when I've been the topic of negative comments or just treated poorly. I think part of the reason I've never been confronted is the choice of normal public venues if I'm on my own, riskier places but only with others and there are some places I'll probably never go crossdressed. I don't believe I pass, but I count on others to be caught up in their lives and this allows me to pass by so they only get a chance to see me turn the corner. I also do my best to dress appropriate to my age and the activity I'm involved in. The military types will say it's always good to scout your objective before you go in. If you are headed to the mall for your first time out, go the day before and see what the women your age are wearing and don't wear an evening dress and heels to go to a greasy spoon for lunch. Yes, even if it's the greatest thing in your closet. Save it for that big evening at SCC or a night at the opera with someone else at your side.

My viewpoint...Most won't pay enough attention to notice unless possibly you are right next to them, and lets be honest, for the most of us it will be noticeable. Most who do notice will not care enough to make an issue out of it. They will be like whatever. I would not automatically assume that their lack of response means acceptance, in of itself. Maybe they they don't care for it but not enough to do something about it. I say this because the responses whenever a TG story comes up on the news is typically far more negative than positive.

Here is a simple truth. Most won't know whether a CDer is a post op TS or not, and won't care either. But may assume you are one. I personally do not care to deal with any of it. But oddly enough, whenever I have seen someone out dressed, I feel of sense of a you go girl type of feeling. I feel the same for all of you that go out. Great for you, I hope your experiences are good ones, I am glad when they are, and I don't want to deal with any of it, good or bad.

I'm looking to have my first day time outing soon, so I'm glad to see all the advice. I've done a few late night walk around my apt complex but thats it.

I think it's important to remember that if you ask 15 crossdressers how they feel about what they do, what they find satisfying, what are their limits, etc. you're likely to get 15 different responses. But, considering those things that help to keep us safe, they should be common to all.

Reading my last post, I just want to make sure I am not saying going out is bad, for them. I will cheer you on. It is just me, I am not one who wants to go through the issues with going out in public. I will never say never, but it is not for me now.

When going out it most certainly is not the easiest thing to do.
We all worry about being recognized, about being "read". The truth is Yes, You will be Read! There are few of us that can flow into the mainstream completely as a woman. Most do not have the features, mannerisms, carriage and confidence that would have everyone we meet truly believe we are women.
That being said, if you have the desire and the need to be seen in public and accepted as a woman you do need Confidence. You need to not be the "deer in the headlights" or you will be seen that way. The confidence you exude tells others that you feel you belong there. They may not see you totally as a woman, but they will be more likely to accept you for who you are.

On the safety side. Well, remember, you are presenting as a woman. Women in general need to take precautions that men do not. If someone were to confront you and you needed to escape think about it. Are you wearing a tight skirt and 4" heels? How fast can you run. Security comes from being aware of your surroundings and not placing yourself in situations that any woman would avoid. Just because you may be taller than the average woman and can Posture like a Marine doesn't mean that you will prevail if you take that shortcut through a dark alley. Now I'm not saying that everyone is out to get the Tranny, but as women we are most certainly seen by those unseemly characters in society as more vulnerable. Just be Aware.

Thanks Isha for another great thread !
The main problem with CDing is acceptance, Isha says that she will never pass but is OK with being accepted !
I've driven out at night dressed but chickened out at taking a walk, I may struggle to fully come out publicly because I'm not fully accepted at home, until that happens I won't come terms with venturing out dressed !
As Isha says there is the question do you want to do it and why ?

I drive around a lot in the mornings. I look for GG's and they are not out. So looking like one (from afar) would be out of the ordinary. Out in the day there are the the giggles, but you are you, hold your head up.
Dress like others do.
Must important...Smile.
Char

Self confidence..it is the "heart of the matter". With out it initially,you won't get there. Why? Because in order to get comfortable about being in the mainstream one has to feel the right to be there.You have to own that right.Without that starting point,a person will always feel on edge "out there". Personal safety is just a common sense part of life if you are confident in that life. If not,you can never "access the risks" clearly because "you may think you are risking it just being out,let alone going THERE".. You have to be comfortable to think clearly....

Thank you very much for your sincere and balanced post. I quote 100%. I never saw any other chance other than being respectful of everyone else, hoping that the other will do the same too!!

I don't know about sunshine and lollipops, but if most of us use good judgement in choice of attire, are reasonably aware of our surroundings and choose safe venues, it will be fine. I cringe when I read about after dark walks in parks or late night trips to Walmart. Night and lonely places are an invitation to trouble.

Great topic Isha.

I have sensed a feeling recently of a couple of 'going out for the first time' threads have had a touch of members being 'dared' to go out, but I'm sure this is probably just bravado and a 'you go girl' attitude/support.
However, you give a great, down-to-earth perspective.

For what it's worth, I have been involved in a couple of women's self defence courses, and the first time I went out dressed, I lost count of the number of times I failed to take the advice that was given... Things like walking about in an unfamiliar area, not staying in a group, going out in the dark, in shoes that I couldn't run in, etc...
That very first time, was more terrifying than exhilerating. The next trips out were easier.

One recent trip out for a walk around town, I was feeling more cautious, as if I expected to be 'caught'. A passing car had a guy hanging out the window waving and calling to me. That night, I was feeling a bit more insecure, and really didn't want to get into a conversation with anyone, and so, scared, I didn't say anything. Then as the car passed by, he shouted something that included the word 'frigid'. I'd clearly 'passed', but that was little comfort. I felt awful. I felt threatened, and even a little violated to have some passing stranger comment on my percieved sexual appetite.
As a guy, I had always imagined something like that to be a fairly harmless comment, (even though it's something I'd never dream of saying to someone myself) but it really hit me emotionally.

The next time I went out dressed, I headed out while it was still daylight, and I made a point of trying to relax and smile more. During that walk, I crossed paths with a girl on a bike, and she returned a warm, open smile. I have no idea if she 'made me' or not. But it was the kind of friendly, relaxed smile that a guy would never get. It was a moment of pleasure and joy for me. I've no idea who she is, and she'll have no idea the impact that one smile made to me, but I'll never forget it.

Like I said Isha, great thread.

Daphne

x

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mechamoose

In going out 'off-gender', we are taking risks.....We are *challenging* gender assumptions, dears. We are rocking the boat. We are making people uncomfortable just by being ourselves. Will you/I hide because we make a stranger uncomfortable?

I can't answer that, only you can, hon. No harm, no foul.

- MM

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I'm with you on this MM. I've gone out en femme many times, both alone and with spouse, and safety is a big concern, so Isha's excellent advice is well taken. But when I've gone out as a DID, usually grocery shopping in the middle of the day, well that's when I am extra alert. While en femme, all I have to do is basically act normal, and am only spotted up close by wait staff and cashiers, and sometimes(not often) actually get away with it. But as a DID, bald on top, hair halfway down my back, I'm spotted three aisles away. I haven't had any confrontations so far, and am quite capable of taking evasive action before any signs of trouble come up. Plus, no one goes into the grocery store on Saturday afternoon all liquored up and looking for a fight...Well, at least not since I quit drinking:-).....But we must know that we're pushing the boundaries, which makes it uncomfortable for "them", but downright scary for me...My hope, is that every little boundary I push, will make it a little easier for those who follow.

I believe your musical quote is from Man of La Mancha...Don Quixote tilting at windmills.....How appropriate.

Jaye

Indeed another thoughtful and thought-provoking Isha thread. We haven’t really addressed her issue of “sugarcoating” our advice to those who are looking at their first big step out into in that Big Vanilla World. I’ve been as guilty of this as others. Maybe it’s like the first time we get kids to ride their bikes without training wheels – sure, it’s a hard pavement down there and you might get hurt when you fall, but we’re trying to stress “Yes, you can do it and after the first time it gets easier.” I’d like to think that we are being encouraging, but yes, the reality is there. Isha’s point is a take home: we might (probably will) be read, but even if we are, aside from some rude looks and comments, the world will not end. Yes, most people are involved in their own affairs and will go on about their business. Like bike-riding, the confidence grows with each experience – not the confidence that we are passing as women (which is probably self-deception), but the confidence that we can be out and about as ourselves. Granted, it does help if we feel comfortable in our presentation – at least that helps me.

As to the safety issue, I avoid situations where problems might arise. I generally go out in the daytime, and when I do, I go to places and do things that women would normally do – shopping, the library, medical appointments, hair salon. If I do go out at night, that is with my wife and / or other GG friends for dinner or entertainment – we avoid bars and places where women could be accosted. Paula’s post is excellent in this regard.

I shop...really tons of stuff to do..any limitations are your own..i dont like to fly in planes so never will fly dressed...for safety i carry that item which causes instant flame war here and out of respect bears no definitive description..i dont really understand the complaints about guys when some go into bars in the parts of town you would not venture during the day..guess i also dont get why some go into those places alone...usually its group of ladies and dudes..oh well..its your call...