Printable View
I honestly think that I have been transgendered since the day I was born and its not something you can just "become". I don't mean the people who are happy to wear just one or two items of fem gear but I mean the people (like myself) who feel the need to totally present as female each time they dress.
So, do you think that you were born transgendered or have you "grown into it" as you have got older?
i think people are always transgendered. I know i am. Its a pretty safe bet that every truely transgendered person has always known inside that overwhelming feeling of thinking you were placed in the wrong body, has felt those emotions of jealousy/anger/fustration/sadness/etc just by the mere thought or image of womanhood from the time they were young children.
I know my earliest memories was racked with utter fustration that i would not be able to grow up a girl and experiance all those fun and exciting things that all girls look forward too. As much as i hoped/prayed/dreamed/etc to one day wake up the girl i always felt i was it never happened.
I think the difference is that a TG is truely a female spirit trapped in a mans body.....and i think GG's could easily get a quick understanding of what its like for us.....all they have to do is imagine if they(the exact person they are) was suddenly put into a mans body....how would they feel?? that is EXACTLY how i have felt my whole life.
my hope....
that there is such a thing as reincarnation and next time no mistakes are made! :D
edit: one thing i'd like to add....someone like myself and i can really only speak for myself who see's themself as TG i think also recognizes and finds it the most fustrating thing of all at the idea that no matter what i do in this body i will NEVER be what i truely feel i should be....meaning i will never be 100% woman and quite honestly that has always been my biggest hinderence in going full out in the CD/TS/TG world because i can never feel like a real GG. I can satisfy some of my womanly desires but i will never ever satisfy that one and it will always leave me feeling empty.
sad....but true.
Hi Gemma
I know that I was born this way, there was never any doubt. I had some evil things done to me when I was a kid, and I wondered for awhile if that's what caused it, but both my p-doc and I feel that I'm Karen in spite of what happened, not because of it.
GypsyKaren
I think that what upset my Mum the most when I told her was, not that I was TS, but that I suffered so much inside as she watched me grow up. She never knew, and she feels bad because of that.
The concencus seems to be that you start that way, and if it proves to be a brain difference that really causes it, that'd fit in just so. :)
I did not start till the ripe old age of 43...last april. Had never dressed before.
Am I really transgendered? Who knows...but when I get home tonight I'll switch over to being totally fem till monday. That will include en femme trips to a movie 'Transamerica' friday night and going clubbing Sat nite. Might even run to the grocery or other errands.
I freaking love being a female, makes me happy. Not really worried right now if I fit anyones idea of the correct way of arriving at being a Tgirl!
As others have said, I 100% believe it's something you're born with. To me, a person could more easily change the color of their skin than their sexuality by any means short of 'chopping it off' ;)
Now, the enviornment a person grows up in might influence how much of it comes to the surface and how it presents itself, but deep inside, what's there is there no matter what.
Edit: As for me, I've felt 'something was up' early on in my life, since I've been more interested in girly things than manly things for as long as I can remember. Being manly just...felt unnatural to me I guess.
I don't know. I started around 12 years old. There may have been a proclivity towards it prior to then, but I don't remember ever longing to be a girl as a young child. Girls confused me just like any other boy. All I do know is that when the floodgates opened, the water came fast.
I actually took part in a university study being conducted by the Pysch departmant at Ottawa university, and was told that they were leaning towards transgenderism being there from birth. The study was focusing in on the earliest development of the embrio, when the X and Y chromozones are being determined and that at this time more or less (depending on the sex) are assigned but not the correct ratio. And this could lead to the development of a transgendered personality, and also depending on how many of the chromozones are "misdirected" the person may become a little more of the opposite gender or want to be the opposite gender.
It's a lot to cover here, and confusing, but it does appear transgenderism is not a choice but who we are.
please forgive me if i got a few terms wrong here, I am a designer and not a doctor.
Julia
I honestly believe that this is the way we were born. The only thing is discovering who we really are and this can be a problem. I only found out about four years ago and for reasons beyond my control I'm not able to do anything about it ie, GRS. I have to make do with finally developing real breasts and I'm able to spend about 90% of the time as a woman. I'm sure that if I had found out when I was in my 20's, or even later, I would have had the surgery. But even if I have to live as I now do I'm happy with who I am. Good luck to all of you girls who think you're TG. I hope you find out about it early in life.
I'm with the "born like it" school Gemma..!...then it just develops or evolves into a more complete desire to be feminine depending on how it's allowed to grow...or not as the case may be...peoples situations differ so much..I'm so lucky that over the last few years I have been able to let this side of me "fly" and been able to fulfill a dream...many are not so lucky...but I'm sure I was TG whilst still in the womb.!!!!!
Love Nikki. xx
I first noticed my feelings around the tender age of 5... And in my household, the expectations were such that I just could not assimilate what I felt with what they expected me to be... It became easier to hide, pretend, be a loner, conform to a small extent (so as to be accepted by their norms) but hidden than to show who I was. In that environment, not conforming meant to be beaten, and well... I learned repression first hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by TGMarla
But in short, these feeling have always been with me. I just learned early that hiding myself was the way to familial acceptance.
But things are changing!!!:clap:
I am almost positive I was always tg ,it has always been easier for me to make friends with girls and I was quite often referred to as a sissy,now,it does not matter, I would rather be referred to as a sister to my siblings.
Wow, a tough one. I really don't know why I am the way I am. I am. Just like GypsyKaren, I too had some unfortunate events occur to me when I was around five. I think that might have influenced my development. But even before that my two best friends were girls. I felt more comfortable with the girls than the boys. I saw a school mate dress as a girl for a school halloween parade and the image was just burned into my mind's eye. I never knew a boy could fill the role of a girl until then. My mother, God bless her always wanted a girl. I was the third attempt..if she only knew that she had three and a half boys and one half of a girl. IT is kind of weird. In my male persona, I am not femmy at all. But my mother always describes the new drapes or a new dress or shoes to me:o and never to my other brothers. WHat is up with that? Could she possibly have a clue about my femmy sensibilities. I asked her..why are you telling me about your new blouse> she says I don't know..and goes onto another subject.:bs:
I can remember from a very early age, probably 6, of wanting to be a girl. I had a re-occurring dream of going into bathroom at a certain store and coming out a girl. It grew from there and I tried on my mom's clothes several times in my teens. I stopped for a while and I tried again a few years ago. Stopped dressing again but then it has started over and the urge is stronger than ever.
Mothers have that intuition, as I suppose some of us have, depending how far along we are on the transgendered scale. If you subscribe to the theory it is part of our chromozonial/internal makeup.
J
I think like evey other avenue of this particular discussion, we are all different. I really don't believe I was born this way. I do believe that most people who are gay were born gay, so it just stands to reason that tg people could be born tg. I do not think I was. I believe I evolved. I believe that more and more each day. Life altering events can lead somebody to become something they were not necessarily "born" to be. A form of brainwashing, I suppose.
Birth or environment or whatever really doesn't matter, except as a commentary:
Of course it is easier to say "I was born this or that way" than simply "I am" whatever you think or know you are.
Hugs,
j-a:cool:
For me, I drank too much diet Pepsi when i was a child, this was considered a girly drink, so I became a girl.
I am similar to Eva, I had events in my life that caused me being transgendered, at least I think so. I never had any thoughts about wanting to dress or be like a girl until after the events in my life.
I can't say for sure that I was born being transgendered.
You know. I believe I was born this way. But, I also believe that you can be born with the personality and tendancies but not develop them due to any number of reasons... Myself, well, I remember putting on girly things at a young age as well as my sister(5 years older than me) making me wear some of her old things and I believe that may have actually inhanced these feelings at my young age as well has helped to shape my personality and the like to what it is today.
[QUOTE=MsEva] My mother, God bless her always wanted a girl. I was the third attempt..if she only knew that she had three and a half boys and one half of a girl. QUOTE]
My mother was the seventh daughter in her family, and an irishman told her she would have seven sons. But, the joke in the family is that everyone after the first was supposed to be a girl.
I was the first child with her second husband. I imagine her hopes were higher. I was pretty, had curly hair which was allowed to grow long. I liked spending time with her cooking, cleaning, sewing, embroidering, ironing, etc. (yes, I'm older than the average t!). It may seem strange, but for me gendered activities came before dressing.
So, was I born that way or did I become that way?
Regardless of myself, I think many are born that way, but I think others become that way through trauma, ridicule, emulation of a strong womanly figure, other possibilities.
In short, I think there are different ways of becoming t, and that none is wrong if that's where you are.
As far as crossdressing, I do know a few people who started late in life (30s+) and claimed to have had no interest in earlier.
As far as becoming more than "just a CD" (to transgenderist or transsexual), Richard Docter in his "Transvestites and Transsexuals" made a pretty convincing argument there are some individuals for whom the femme persona they've created ultimately becomes the dominant one, replacing their prior male persona. Although Docter's book doesn't address the autogynephilia theory, AGP would seem to dovetail as one reason this happens. Certainly the published accounts about Larry/Lana Wachowski would seem to fit this model.
(And yes, I'm aware AGP is hugely controversial, however, there are some post-ops like Anne Lawrence, who think it explains them to a tee -- and what gets forgotten in the AGP wars is that Blanchard's intend was to make GRS available to people who previously would have been rejected. I think the real problem with folks like Bailey and Blanchard is they insist there are only two types of TSs (AGP being one), instead of recognizing AGP is one of a variety of types of TSs.)
Part of the difficulty answering the question of how many people are crossdressers who take things a few more steps is that the "standard TS narrative" is so well known that people know how they're "supposed" to feel, and may retroactively recall feeling trans at an early age. But in a sense it doesn't really matter. If people firmly believe they're women (and won't have post-surgery regrets), GRS may be an appropriate solution, regardless of when that belief developed.
i believe that those feelings are there,but speaking from experience,
can be fueled by an encouraging environment.
hugs,karen.
I think its a very interesting question.
I knew I was TG from an early age - though I didn't label myself TG. I'm sure for some there is a process of feminisation through their lives but the gender dysphoria seed was there initially - and this fuelled by desire sends you down the tranny path.
But I think your question is - could a 'normal' guy become transgendered. Well we have the Alan Finch case - he had abusive father, developed a hatred for men, saw an article in a magazine about TSs, said to himself 'that's me', convinced the psychs, had GRS and lived for years as a woman including marrying. Then HE 're-awakes' and realises he's really male after all and he starts reversing the process. So that would suggest that even if the strong desire to change is there - the underlying gender force is stronger.
So I doubt that someone could become TG if they did not already have that GD seed.
Fiona xx
I know I was born this way I don’t really think you can just one day *become* a TG the only thing I can think of is if they had hid the fact that they where to them selves till one point.
I never had the desire to crossdress until last June. I admitted that I am a crossdresser and transgendered. It seemed natural to me because I was not stressed by that revelation. It may have been deep inside of me for a while. I don't believe that I was born this way, but I have always viewed myself as being different. I recently tested as androgyne. I am happy with my masculine and feminine qualities.
Gennee:angel:
Like i have been saying I had these thougths when i was very young that something had gone wrong when i was born yet again in a mlae body. I to was the thrid attemp by my Mother and there was one more after me i was born. But to me I discovered and felt that girls were magical and having seen this i wnated to be and become one. But then i was like so may of us were taught i was ansd am male so it was lost for a very long time but not ever realy gone i was and am who i am inside and that is a girl. I just want to be that outside as well. So in a way i had to reteach myself that i was female. but i'm so glad that i have and did it ahs made a whole lot of difference now at this stage of my life. I now know that my dad would never accept it and he is nad was a Medical Doctor so you might think he would understand but noway My mom i get mixed feelings from. Although i have never jsut come right out and said so i think she might have an inkling that i wanted to be a girl but then. Oh well. I think you are very right one can have the feelings suppresed in ones life but never erased you are what you are it is what you are no matter how it or you might have come out. I was female before birth and still am. Oh well More later!. Suzy!.
I feel that I have been in the wrong body for some time now, as I have always had a soft spot for things women do. There are time when my wife and I do things she would say "you shoud have been a girl".:) I have loved the times when she has said that to me.;) She tells me I have to much femme clothes but when there is a sale at a favorite womens store she says go buy some thing. So I do. She even got me a credit card to the Lane Bryant Stores so I can get any thing I want when I want.:thumbsup:
the difference between TG and CD is night and day. i don't believe at all that one day when say someone is 30 years old and they never had that feeling that a lightbulb comes on and *poof* they are TG.
TG's are born that way. They always know it. they always feel it...and it never goes away even if they choose not to dress and their outer exteriors are as masculine as can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaraB
Maybe in a way it might be true that it would be strange for someone to have a light bulb go off and boom, they want to dress or be a girl.
But I believe in some people(me), that a traumatic event in ones life can trigger a sort of imbalance in the brain. Something that can cause them to become transgendered. I am not saying that it came to me like a lightbulb flash. But I had no desire to dress or be a woman in any part of my youth, The desire came after having things happen to me, being influenced and probably in a way brainwashed(sorry for that word, I don't have a better word to use) by others in making the desire of wanting to be a woman.
There are people who have traumatic events in there lives and lose their minds completely, some handle these events differently, in my case, I am handling things by becoming a woman.
I am very limited in my vocabulary and thoughts, this is the best way that I can describe why I am the way I am. am not a shrink, I can't go deep and tell you the why's and how's. All I know is this is the way I am and I have lived this way since I was 19, it's the way I handle my life, otherwise I would go mad.
Am.... i will say this...by no means do i think that its not possible that someone later in life can realize. I know by what i said it sounded like that...i should have stressed that their is always the rarities(you hehe) that it can happen to. In general though and 98% of the time i believe it happens the way i talked about.
The difference is generally big too between the amount of CD/TV vs. TG. You can see it just by looking at the forums. I was naturally drawn to the TG forum but when i saw that only a few people reply in there a day and here its a few people replying a minute i naturally went here but am more suited for tht forum. The people here i must say are all so nice so i'm glad i came to this forum.
I have to side with the born that way group. I remember at a very young age wanting to be/to dress as a girl. I was maybe five or so if my memory serves me right. Maybe even younger. Now, I get a chance every now and then to become one. Not totally, but as close as I can under the current circumstances. And it feels so right. So natural.
born this way hon, thats the way it is, you cant choose, and dont have a choice, its who you are, thats why lots of us do it in secret, not me tho, im honest with me!~and thats what counts, being yourself, no more guilt! kisses tara xxxx
I honestly don't know. I started wearing female stuff around 6 or 7. Actually one of my first memories of childhood is getting caught by my Mom. I think I should have memories before that, But I just don't recall them.
Don't know why I started wearing the stuff. I guess I just did. Later, thru adolesence, I remember wishing I was borm a girl instead of a boy. I had so much angst as a teen. Never really fit in anywhere. Always thought I was a freak. Always thought I would never be loved for who I am. But just always wished I was born a girl.
Although I have always wanted to be a "father". I just wonder if that is a societal "term" I have applied to a paternal instinct.
So I guess I believe TG/TS people are born that way. I am just trying to figure me out. I believe I am TG, there is just so much more to this than dressing for sexual gratification.
EVERYONE is transgendered. The behaviours and traits which are labeled as masculine and feminine are HUMAN traits and naturally belong in both sexes. There is no such thing as a 100% masculine or feminine personality. The average person probably has 75% of their traits aligned to their sex gender due to hormonal influences and the other 25% exhibiting the "wrong" gender traits are typically suppressed by social conditioning.
The question is wrongly put - it is not whether a person can become transgendered, but rather can a person with a normal social behavioural make-up undo the social conditioning and choose to express those elements which are meant to be suppressed. I think it is possible for a normal person to become a CD because even a normal person has a sizeable chunk of their personality aligned to that of the opposite sex. Crossdressing occurs as a result of the conflict between the strong desire to express yourself and the omnipotence of social programming. Typically some event is needed to trigger the person to question or be attracted to their suppressed traits, so environmental situations invoke crossdressing.
However most CDs do appear to come from those who lie more towards the center of the transgendered continumn i.e. people with say a 60/40 mix or maybe even 50/50 after which point you are entering the area of transsexualism.
Interesting post, Helana.
I need to digest it properly before responding. But it sort of explains why burly macho rugby players don frocks and make up at the annual season end 'do'.
Fiona xx
> So, do you think that you were born transgendered or have you "grown
> into it" as you have got older?
Both.
Here's how I answer this question for myself:
1. I believe I was born biologically different than the average male.
2. This difference can be expressed through crossdressing, but it can also be expressed in other or better ways. It is not specifically a predisposition to crossdressing.
It become a tricky logical issue. Looking at my crossdressing, I can correctly attribute it to a predisposition. Yet it is not a predisposition specifically to crossdressing.
Cathy
all of the T-Girls(cds, tvs, tgs, and tss)are "transgendered"---its just a matter of degree.:dom:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma Rhodes
Now this will only make sense to Sherrie as we grew up in the same area. Sherrie, I knew I was "different" growing up when I would go through Olyphant and see all the pretty dresses in Sullums. Sherrie knows that Sullums had the most equisite gowns and dresses in their dress store windows. Even til this day I have to slow down as I drive by to get a glimpse of the most fantastic display of fem finery around. I knew this even when I was six years old. Funny how that stays with you. I guess we are the sum of our biological and environmental background. I still remember going to the Globe store in Scranton with my Mom and shopping with her. I remember her going into the Ladies Lounge and having to wait outside. I wanted more than anything to go in with her. I remember sneaking a peak inside to find her, but more to the point to see what was going on with the women that I identified with. Good times..yeahQuote:
Originally Posted by SherriePall
:bs:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsJanessa
i completely disagree.
and if you want evidence just look at the 2 polls i posted to see just how different TV/CD is from TG. Its night and day.
CD/TV dress for thrill and have very little or no desire to be an actual woman. They like being a man and are completely happy going there life dressing in drag as a man wearing womans clothes.
TG has total desire(there whole life) to be a woman. The idea of going through life a man is a point of extreme sadness. TG's desires to dress are completely different then CD/TV. TG's want nothing more then to be a woman. To be a woman wearing womens clothes. be natural. TG's have a much harder time dealing with this stuff because their deep rooted identity is purely female and to see themselves in drag is sometimes worse becuase they often see themselves as a man dressing in drag.......and that is the last thing TG's want.
Well it does appear from reading the posts on this thread that even among our own community we are still unsure of what we would classify ourselves as, what it means, and how we got there. I personally don't believe there is an absolute answer at the moment, as this thread and many others prove.
Julia
Sorry, but that's hardly a scientific sampling. There are a number of folks in the "grey area" between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaraB
There's folks here who would wear women's clothing 24/7 if they could, but who don't necesssarily see themselves as trapped in the wrong body. Some would love to be able to be out in the world as feminized men.
There's folks who actually live as women a good percentage of the time, but who don't what to physically be a woman, even if they may do some hormones and/or surgery -- they see themselves as a third sex. (I personally know a couple of these folks.)
There are people who transitioned even though they didn't particularly hate their male bodies -- in some cases seemingly because of the peer-pressure from other TSs (i.e. "real" TSs have GRS), in the case of another person I know, she says she did it for "aesthetic reasons." (She'd done everything else, and so she decided she might as well do that do. She'd never particularly hated what was between her legs, but since hormones had killed her libido, it was now just sort of irrelevant to her.)
Anyway, the picture ain't black and white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlena Dahlstrom
definitly not scientific. More of an observation but i do stand by my conclusions. I see a broad difference. The degrees at which people are what they are obviously vary.....i do see it as black and white with a small degree of greyness.
the 3rd sex has always been an interesting point. It goes back to ancient times and alot of ancient cultures believed in it....even to the point where people that were thought to be the 3rd sex were usually in very powerful positions in their communities....ie Shamans in Indian tribes.
the other thing that always gets dais is that there is 2 spirits trapped in one body. Another possibility. one man/one female. two females. or 2 males. however it may be...it would explain alot if true.
TaraB, I can understand your use of TG to mean 'total desire to be a woman', I use it as, to most 'normal' people, I think it sounds better than TS. But the pedantic can point out that 'trans' means 'across' and gender means, well, gender. Therefore whether we like it or not, TG by definition encompasses crossdressers, TSs and everyone who crosses genders, for whatever reason, for however long.
The REALLY pedantic could also point out that TV is exactly the same as CD, who came up with the odd idea that they are different? It's just a different language used, the translated meaning is the same.
The more I think about it, the less I think about it. That is, we are who we are, and I don't see the point in arguing over it. Some seem born that way, like me. Others weren't. That doesn't mean that I will accuse them of being wrong, they are just who THEY are. I accept that different people are possible, indeed, expected. So yes, if someone says that they DID become transgendered, lets just agree that some can, rather than saying 'well 'I' wasn't, so I don't think you can.'
The whole AG arguement is another good example. I resent being told by proponants of the theory that I AM AG. No, I'm not. But equally, just because I'm not, I don't automatically say that they don't exist. I accept that if some say they are, then they are.
Take care
xxx
Well, I might as well throw my two cents in. For me growing up I never had much of a female influence in my life, ala no access to girly things. But I do remember from a very young age admiring the girls out and about. Only until I was married (the first time) did I somewhat acknowledge these desires, by trying on my wifes things, to which she never found out. I have always looked at women wondering how I would look in the lovely outfits. My wife and I (13 years now) have gone through some very traumatic things pertaining to my work, and this last halloween she jokingly said she would dress as the guy and me..........you guessed it!!!! Finally!!!!! I told her what the heck work is going he## in a handbasket what do I have to lose. From that point I have come a long way and could not be more comfortable with myself and who I am becoming or was supposed to be. I dont know where I will end up, but I can say this for sure it was there, but mainly for social expectations and directions I couldnt act on it.
My two cents is : I don't think it is so much as becoming transgendered as realizing you are. Of course your personal definition of transgender may vary, I think that the term is all encompassing with many variations with-in it. I am a crossdresser , have I ever wanted or wished I was born xx instead of xy? yes, have I been happy as a man, overall it hasnt been bad, do I feel more like "myself" when dressed or presenting a feminine image or letting my personality slip to a more feminine demeanor? yes.
I classify myself as transgender, but as has been mentioned in other posts the concept of gender is societal construct. (but I think thats another thread) :D
I don't know when I realized I was transgender. I started dressing around age 5 or 6, I wanted to be a girl, (mom wasn't to happy after the first time i got caught). In high-school I think is when I understood what transgender was and that might have been when I finally realized what I was, but there wasn't alot I could do about it ,well I didn't know what I or anyone else could do about it.
Is it possible for someone to realize later in life that they are transgender? I think so. Can some trauma or condition bring this realization on? I think so, the brain is the most important and least understood piece of equipment we have.
well thats my disorganized thoughts on the subject
melissa
-think of the possibilities!
-I'm trying not to. Gives me a headache.
If one is truly transgendered, you are born that way. This is not a lifestyle choice or a habit that will not go away. It is true that probably 90% of all crossdressers will never go beyond wearing just one or several items of feminine attire. For some of these individuals the attire such as panties or hose is for erotic purposes. For the 10% of us on this formal the clothing is an external manifestation of an internal part of who we are.
Hugs,
Melanie
Thanks for all your replies girls. I am so glad I started this thread as the replies have been fascinating.
Gemma xx