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Last night my wife initiated sex for the first time since I told her about my CDing 5 months ago. Since then it's been mostly DADT, though she hasn't objected to my wearing female underwear to bed from time to time.
I now fear that if I try to have a discussion about CDing again it might be another 5 months, or even longer...
I'm a crossdresser, not a monk.
HELP !!
I'm no expert and only you're wife can truly an ser this question. But if you have entered a DADT situation then my gut would tell me to start a discussion.
Nikki, it may be that your wife only wants to have sex with the man she married and isn't in to having sex with your femme side. Since my wife discovered my secret she has become pretty comfortable with my lingerie in bed and around the house. She even told me that she didn't mind having sex with me wearing a nightgown or bra with a t-shirt but draws the line with me wearing my forms while we have sex. She said that does nothing for her and she is not into lesbian sex. I now know where the line is that isn't to be crossed. Maybe your wife has the same feelings.
I hope things work out for you. The most important thing is to keep up the communication with her. You've made this far so keep it going..
hi nikki, as a cd r who lived in a dadt marrege for many years ,i will try to put my two cents in, my wife just hated to c me dressed ,it was a complete turn off to her,so i had to seperate it from one another. so when it came to sex i was the male 100 percent no frills andthat worked for us.she knew about my crossdressing she did not want to talk ,see or touch it, and you know the old saying happy wife, happy life. well my wife passed away and now i dress as awomen almost 24/ 7 and you know what i would give it all up to have one hour with my beataful wife. not a year one hour .u do what suits u but the human touch is worth more then any pease of clothing can bring. nikki i sincerly wish all the happiness life cane bring,but try to look at this from all veiws. hugs love lynda
Nikki,
I hit that situation at your age, the problem was I'd just come out to my wife , it made me feel very close to her but she did not respond, eventually it made me feel totally rejected and unloved and on the point of considering suicide !
My dressing is sexually based but I never took it into the bedroom and didn't need it to fulfill our needs ! I just feel that my CDing is being used as an excuse for a lack of a need for intimate relationships ! Now twenty years on my wife has no interest at all so I'm back where I started with dressing and my sexual needs ! My wife knows it hurts me but still does nothing about it !
I wish I had the answer. My situation has been going on since we had kids - about 7 years. My wife seems to have increased in discomfort with crossdressing since becoming a mother, and can't seem to look at me as a guy without seeing me as a girl. This has caused her to lose attraction to me as a guy and consequently our sex life has disappeared entirely. :(
We cannot really expect our spouses or significant others to respect our crossdressing boundaries, if we do not accept theirs. Communication will be your best tool, but do avoid over communicating. Sometimes that can be done from the pink fog or desperation/exasperation.
Before my 2nd wife completely cut me off from sex, she would perceive the days that I had not worn anything femme. Those wod be the days that she would be receptive to sex. (Initiate sex?!? Wives do that?!?) so maybe working out a system so it doesn't squash the spontaneity completely. But it also won't hurt to ask her to experiment. Let her call it link if it works for her. But once those boundaries, it's best to accept them and respect them. Otherwise you risk alienating her and making her resent your dressing.
Ever & Always,
Caden Lane
@Nikki - that type of rejection feels horrible, I know. My ex-wife found me to be repulsive after I came out to her.
If the two of you can't fix this, and sometimes these things can't be fixed, you need to ask yourself if the marriage meets your needs well enough to be worth staying in.
I know that sounds harsh, but an awful lot of marriages fail, and the incompatibility you two may face is really no different than any other incompatibility other couples face.
Do you want to be married to someone who can't love who you really are?
Don't you ever initiate sex? It doesn't have to be her.
I suggest you quit wearing female underwear to bed. That might be her turnoff.
Seems to me that would be your choice my friend. Only you know what's more important to you. :)
Nikki, not sure how that might go, only you do. I do know "pushing " can have undesirable consequences.
But I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. All the best.
Hugs
We do build up stories in our minds (most of us), especially in the beginning. This comes from our intuitive feelings of what the CDing is all about, nothing particularly conscious. We have not been exposed to the CDing, we do not live in your skins plus we are not male, and so we have no frame of reference for what you feel. For example, it is difficult for most of us to understand why a man would want to be pretty using the things that women use to attract men, if not to attract other men. So, many GGs feel as if they are not the main entrée on the menu, that they are instead more of a side dish and this is a turn-off.
From a personal perspective, it took me many years to disassociate the CDing from my SO's sexuality, despite being a member on this forum, despite having my SO tell me that he wasn't into men. Reading posts from members in the CD (not TS) section who give the impression they would want to be women all the time complicated matters. I was under the impression that my SO's head space was in the TG zone all the time even when he wasn't dressed (wanting to be a pretty girl). It just took a long time for me to see this wasn't true and frankly I think that only time is the solution here, combined with frequent talks about what this means to you sexually and what your wife means to you as well. This is a difficult conversation for most long-term couples to have especially if they are afraid to upset the status-quo … you know, like not facing the white elephant in the room.
If the CDing is or was linked to your sexuality (you'll need to be honest with yourself), I think it will be difficult for your wife to get past this. She will perceive a difference within you, based on whether you have been dressing or not, or thinking about it or not, and again she will feel as if it is the CDing that really excites you and not her. I suspect this is why so many wives don't want to see it. They don't want to face the fact that they may be just a side dish.
So please do keep the lines of communication open.
When I first told my wife it was a couple of months before we had sex again since she needed the time to figure out how she felt about it. So b that might be what th e issue was. I say try and start things on your own and see what happens
One big problem is, we are sexually turned on mostly by subconscious feelings about our mate. Once you've changed her image of you from masculine man, to feminine person, you can easily destroy whatever it was that sexually turned her on. Love and lust are two different feelings, while, when you feel both together is great, it doesn't always work that way. We can still be very much in love with someone while not feeling any sexual desire for them. Men rarely know this; our sexual drive is so strong that it overcomes pretty much anything. But women don't have this overwhelming desire for sex 24/7, so you may have your work cut out for you now, in trying to reinforce the previous feeling in her of sexual desire for you; because every time she starts to get turned on, pretty much any image of you in some type of female attire or behavior imagined in her mind for even a few seconds can sort of short circuit the desire for sex.
Monks are silent....sooooo
You'll never find out what she's thinking if you don't talk about it.
Though we imagine we have an idea what our SO's are thinking or feeling, it is only honest conversation that will bring to light the intricate details of what each of you are feeling and thinking. I would imagine there are a lot of emotions and barriers in the last five months that have put a hold on your sex life. You don't mention if she has refused your attempts in the last month to know if your relationship is based upon her initiation, yours, or is mutually undefined. Being someone who suffers from Holiday depression, I can say that intimacy from November through January can be difficult for me. Look outside the crossdressing box and analyze what else may have been going on in the last five months. It is easy to feel that one's desire to do things that may be accepted by our SO's, can be over thought by our own subconscious and feelings. The more you both discuss the matter the more your feelings will be able to express themselves. This is not as easy as a lot of marital issues but it never gets any better by being ignored.
Choosing between sex and CD is not the underlying issue, unless it has been expressed by your wife in such a matter. Sex is a focus on a physical relationship with your wife, fulfilling needs by both partners. At this point, CDing is a part of your life and hopefully part of your wife's one day, that fulfills your needs or feelings while putting into question your wife's perception of how you can fulfill her needs, feelings, or perceived expectations of where the two of you stand in a broader aspect of your relationship.
Hi Nikki,
Even though you are in a DADT relationship I believe this is one of those things that bear discussion. There could (I say could) be other reasons for the decreased sexual activity which may have nothing to do with your CDing as she did initiate the activity. But then again you know your wife better than us and would have to weigh what is currently going on your lives and how you think she would take broaching such a subject and what it means to your DADT relationship. Sorry I can't offer much advice as our (mine and my wife's) understanding is that the bedroom is sacrosanct in that Isha does not darken the doorway in any form whatsoever and there is only one lady in the bedroom and that is my wife.
Hugs
Isha
In a way its really got to be up to you. If the choice is so clear-cut, there may not be real compromise available. If that's the case, you have to decide what matters more. For me that would be easy, I'd pick my wife every time, though I don't think she'd ever force me to make that decision.
I don't push my cd on my wife and she is ok with the dressing. I feel she didn't marry me to be a female so I try to keep Jaylyn at bay with sex. We have done some activities where we were both dressed and had a great time. We have always had a great sex life and really have done some very crazy sexual things. Wives I feel need the man they married for their fantasies and to satisfy them. We promised that in our marriage vows so I feel I need to fulfill my end of that. I like many others on here have high sex drives and do full fill some of my drives by dressing. My suggestion is to don't push too hard for her to accept you as a cd and satisfy her then she might become involved more with your needs also.
I agree with Isha that the CDing is kept out of the bedroom. In my case, it's not by any agreement either, as I have never suggested it.
I also agree with Jaylyn, except for the "very crazy sexual things". hahaha
I would keep Nikki out of the bedroom unless she is clearly invited.
By the way, guys are allowed to initiate sex.
Hi Nikki
"It's not all about you!" These words still ring in my ears. 3 years ago my wife went into the menopause and her libido fell through the floor. I finally admitted my crossdressing to my wife and I last September, but our sex life has been infrequent for the last 3 years, from what was an adventurous and exciting one before. So when I am feeling horny and she doesn't, I start playing on my own insecurities and question is it something I've done, said, not said, not done, etc. Then she reminds me that I am only one half of our sex life and perhaps there is a problem with the other half this time. It's taken me a while to get used to that.
Maybe your wife, Nikki, has something on her mind, or she still wants to make love to her "man", or a bit of both.
I any case, keep talking without pressure.
My wife is pretty good about it but doesn't care for the wig and usually will ask me to remove it. There was a time when she started questioning me if it was the clothes turning me on or if it was her. At that point I separated the both and we only had sex if I was dressed at that time, or else pretty much I started to undress before sex and there were times when she would ask me not to bother undressing. WOMEN can't figure them out for the life of me. All I could suggest is I would consecrate on getting some, and take it from there. Just a suggestion.
BestQuote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Answer
I've
Ever
Seen.
Thank you so much.
This one should go down in the hall of fame and has opened my eyes to things I never thought of. It also seems to be THE thing my wife has been attempting to say to me... and either I didn't hear it, or she couldn't find the right words.
You nailed it.
Great input, as usual, from this GG spouse. Because dressing up was a sex act for me, and because it became a problem that resulted in the end of marriage#1, I felt I had to make a choice between dressing up or finding spouse #2. The plan worked, and spouse #2 was well worth the effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I don't mean to imply that you MUST make that choice, but to try to have it both ways restricts your options in a big way: it's a rare woman who can be comfortable with a man directing as much of his sexual energy into dressing up as I did. If you're like me, you need to think of how that would feel for your wife. One more thing Reine is on target about: communication is key.
One more word about how GGs feel. Of course I can't speak for all of us, but I've spoken to enough GGs to know that the following is pretty common and I'll begin with a point made by Sometimes_miss that I do not agree with (sorry if some of what I say is a repeat of my point above):
I don't know what you mean by feminine person but generally, unless a GG is married to a TS who is in the process of transition, she will still see her husband as a male, albeit a male who crossdresses. To many of us, femininity runs much deeper than shaved legs and makeup and it is darn hard for GGs to begin to think of their husbands as anything other than male, after having only known them as men. This may be a poor analogy (I can't immediately think of a better one), but take a guy who regularly engages in cosplay, even if he seems to live for it. The wife will know that he is not the cosplay character.Quote:
Originally Posted by sometimes_miss
Sometimes_miss you are correct in your assumption that a woman's sex drive isn't as visual and as direct as a man's; it is influenced by a multitude of things such as the quality of her emotional relationship, her stress levels, her feelings about her own body, the questions she is asking herself about her husband's sexuality. So it's not just about seeing her husband dressed up. It takes a bit of analysis to get to the deeper levels, but generally the visual cues of a man wearing women's things are less of a turn-off factor (by themselves) than the wife's perception of her husband's motives for the CDing. Does he CD because he secretly wants to be a woman and if so what will happen to their future? Has the sex gone flat lately and is he beginning to fantasize about men more? Is she the main focus of his sexual desires as he is for her, or is he instead getting off on the idea that he is a woman in bed? This last point, I believe, is the most important and the hardest for any partner to accept no matter what 3rd entity/condition/object is taking up sexual energy from the other partner, even if it isn't the CDing. It could be anything that one partner is into and the other is not. Porn is a good example of this. A wife will be miserable if her husband sources more sexual excitement out of porn than from his wife. But, if they both enjoy it moderately together (if his main attraction is the wife), it can be icing on the cake.
These are complex issues and the visual cues of the CDing do bring up all the underlying implications mentioned above, that are at the real crux of the matter. So, if a wife is fully satisfied that her husband truly wants to continue being her male partner and he is truly into her, she will be a lot more comfortable with the CDing than a wife who is unsure about all of this. Just seeing her husband dressed will not ruin a wife's attraction to him if she is secure in her hetero relationship. By hetero, I mean a man and woman who are sexually attracted to each other, not a woman who is attracted to a man, who in turn is attracted to the CDing even if he can still have sex with his wife.
Suddenly, being a single "fetish" dresser doesn't seem like such a bad thing after all!:o
Sherry, I think it is a lot less complicated for fetish people to be single. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
This argument frustrates me no end. If the couple are into each other, and are the main focus of the sexual encounter, what right does the a partner have to decide what tips the other over the edge? I've heard this argument a lot (against men and crossdressers especially). God forbid if husbands knew what goes on in women's imaginations when they need to get over the line. But you know what? We don't ask, we just enjoy the moment and our partner's pleasure for what it is.
Reine, Thank you again for your insights. Too often we don't consider GG perspectives, and you do so much to to help us (or at least me) do so. Sex is a complex business, especially when CD'ing is involved, and we all should think about what you've said. Too often we think only of ourselves, and need to remember that sex involves both partners -- her needs as well as ours.
Miss Melissa (#28) I agree. My thoughts and fantasies are mine, and if I draw upon them to enhance the sexual experience between me and my wife, it's good and who's to know? My wife may be fantasizing about Brad Pitt, but who's to know?
My dressing is very compartmentalized. I'm all in when I'm dressed, all out when I'm not. I'm a guy who likes to dress up occasionally, and as ultra-femme as possible. No aspect of my CDing carries over to my guy life - no underdressing, no androgyny. I can't control my wife's perception, but I can control what clues I give, or don't give:
"Thinking about those six inch high heels sent me over the top. Great sex, honey."
"Yes it was, Brad."
Ok, no discussion or sex for five months. What do you expect will happen if you bring a discussion? How did she react before? What are your cross dressing goals as it relates to her?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkilovesdresses
Exactly. If they're into each other and are one another's main focus, there's no issue at all. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Melissa
An awesome thread with some really great insight. My wife was reading this over my shoulder and weighed it with an Amen to Reine's input. Specifically, she said women can detect if dressing is a surface level phenomenon or if it runs deeper and points to a motive that poses a threat. (BTW: I commended her for that militaristic threat assessment. She smartly returned that she learned from the best.)
Anyway, she says I am one of the easy ones because even cloaked in a dress I'm still all man. Sure, I display a few hip swishes and maybe a unique fluid wrist motion, but I do enough to hang on to "man me" that she perceives no threat. More to the point she, " . . . still feels secure and protected."
In summary, my wife says she married a man and wants to keep it that way. As far as she is concerned she still has that and supports me -- even if I have this weird wardrobe thing going on. I do suspect she would throw down a penalty flag were I to start to begin to deny manhood in exchange for something else. I don't know that I consciously did anything to ease her fears other than answer her questions and listen to her needs. So, if I have any advise it is to listen and to communicate.
Thank you, all of you, for your replies.
Some more background- kimgirl's reply is closest to my situation I think. Sex pretty much dried up during my wife's very difficult menopause, between about 2006-09, during which she had very little sleep, chronic night sweats, and generally felt like sh*t. I love her very much, and I never complained or tried to push the issue, just accepted that of course she didn't feel like it, she was totally exhausted and demoralised. Once menopause was past, I thought her batteries would gradually recharge and her libido would recover. I was wrong. I continued to wait patiently, and often she would spontaneously apologise for her lack of interest in sex- each time I would reassure her that she mustn't worry, that it was ok. Finally, perhaps around 2011-12, she began to take some interest again, and when we did make love she would orgasm. But she had great difficulty getting wet, and didn't want to know about lubricants. I continued to be patient, but by now if we did make love I was so anxious not to hurt her that I began to find it hard to maintain an erection. But there was some lovemaking, and we both seemed to enjoy it.
More background: my wife knew I wore women's panties from Day 1 in 2003. We went to bed on Day 1 and there they were- I feel no embarrassment about it, and if someone I got naked with didn't like it, there could be no future together. My wife had no problem with it, and our relationship blossomed. Our sex life was spectacular. Sometimes I went to bed in panties, sometimes not. This has never changed. During our first week I told her that I had occasionally xdressed, though only in places far from home, and my family had no knowledge of that side of me. I felt no particular urge to xdress, and remained content just to wear panties and thongs. This state continued through the menopause, and right up to this July when Nikki outed herself.
Since about 2012 our sex life has never recovered its former glory, and she feels terrible about it- though I've tried hard to reassure her that I still love her and it's ok. But it hasn't really been ok- it's made me irritable and frustrated, I know, and spilled out in our r/ship. I suppose we've made love about 6 times a year since 2012, though it's been more like 3 times in a few weeks then not at all for 3 months. Amazingly I think I've come through it- I don't crave it like I used to, and nothing would make me want to leave her- I love her far too much even to consider that.
Several of you have asked why I wait for her to initiate sex- that isn't the case, it's roughly 50-50, just that I don't try to initiate it very often because I fear pressuring her. She is a very loving, accepting person, and I worried terribly about telling her of my CDing expereince last July (staying with friends back in UK) because I didn't want to hurt her already very vulnerable feelings.
SO here I am- with the woman I love, and largely without sex. We don't have Isha's bedroom no-go zone, but I certainly wouldn't expect her to accept Nikki in the bedroom.
I must confess that sexually I am not a he-man, I'm not into 'taking' a woman, sex for me has always been a gentle sort of thing, and basically I think I would prefer to be taken; but I see that she as a hetero woman doesn't want to be cast in the role of aggressor, and I think we have a reasonable balance.
If anyone feels moved to comment further having read this update, PLEASE do- I really welcome your replies. I don't want to single out people for thanks as it might make others feel they haven't mattered - you all matter and I hope you know that.
Nikki
Nikki, thanks for the additional details. My only recommendation is based on the facts that one, she seems to feel bad about not being sexually active and accepting based on maybe discomfort and also maybe being older, post menopause, and two you are getting more frustrated to the point of publicly discussing it here. Why not seek out a qualified specialist, not your normal and friendly general practitioner (he/she could recommend one) to discuss this further and see what options and possible solutions exist. This is not necessarily therapy counseling, though parts of it may seem that way. Your wife's situation is not uncommon and doctors all over have been helping their patients deal with it all the time. The key to make it work is the ability of both of you, together or in separate visits to clearly, openly and honestly discuss all the issues, physical and mental. From what you have written, it appears to be more physical versus mental with the CDing a minor or non-issue.
Talking about couples sex between the parties and/or with others, friends or medical personnel, is not easy for most people. I think that a special effort is needed on both sides to make it work, and I do believe that a qualified professional may be able to make it work. Sometimes it is that third party that can listen better and offer recommendations that are easier to accept and try out, than those offered by one of the parties involved. I wish you the best of luck.
Funny, someone said the exact same thing to me when I came out as bi. It was one of the worst things anyone has ever said to me. Hearing it said about CD doesnt soften the blow at all, and I'm shocked to see you of all people post such a thing.
Hi Niks - I don't think you're situation is vastly different from a lot of us 'maturing' folk with mature relationships... :hugs:
Everything you are trying and doing seems to be with reason and sensitivity - I'm sure your wife appreciates that... but sometimes the progress of time and age is going to be a bigger barrier than any two people can overcome, however hard they try and however deep their love for one another... All you can do is keep being you and doing what you think best... :)
You have my thoughts and wishes as that's really all I can offer... :bighug:
Katey x
Sigh, my wife knows that I cross dress but she has "accepted" it absolutely without comment. Then again, we never talk much about our relationship and anything that might have to do with sex is certainly off the table.
It really doesn't sound as though the crossdressing is the issue here. It sounds like she may have lost her sexual drive, or her confidence, or both. Perhaps it would be appropriate for her to talk to her Doctor about hormone therapy, or a psychologist focusing on sexual issues.
Ever & Always,
Caden Lane
I agree with Krisi. Initiate something and be the man that she thinks she married.
Is is fair to spring CDing on a wife after not revealing before marriage and expect it welcomed with open arms?
what is dadt? I have often sent my girl home so I could dress up. She is fragile and wants a real man, i think?
DADT= Don't Ask Don't Tell, a usually one sided "agreement," where one spouse dictates terms, calls it compromise, and the Crossdresser should be thankful for it. Can you tell I've been there done that?!? Lol
Ever & Always,
A very telling Caden Lane
I can control everything but I dont want to do that. Its not fair and not right. Relationships are 50 50, I can take 100 % but I dont want it. If she wants 100% thats fine. There lies the conflict. I dressed up while she was sleeping next to me tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Lane
Seems to me that it can be helpful to try and take the pressure off her. I am a big fan of starting with a unilateral apology, something like: "I'm so sorry, i feel that my girlie stuff is turning you off and that makes me feel awful, would you like me to get hairy again and man-up?" if you can make it heart felt, and make her know that you want to please her and not just yourself, it frees her up to accept or respond to your generosity of spirit, but also sometime later to reflect on what that offer cost you, and might make it easier to empathise with you. And maybe she can express her needs in that space you make for her.
Tanya- I believe I have taken pressure off her by not pushing my cd agenda and as far as I know I am genuinely not being in any way resentful or grumpy about it. This forum has been a godsend in terms of venting and sharing feelings with like-minded souls.
As an intro to taking the discussion further, which I think is coming up fairly soon, I really like your suggestion for how to phrase it- thank you. I already have the attitude you recommend, I believe.
Char gg and others: I do initiate sex, but I don't feel comfortable to always be the initiator. It makes me feel I'm being demanding, and although she normally accepts, in our early years she was the initiator about 50% of the time. I miss that clear message.
Five months is a long time to wait for her to initiate.
I believe I said it was 5 months since she initiated sex, not 5 months since we had sex, but I take your point. I see that the thread's title implies there's been none at all.