What if you do when you're in a women's restroom and a real woman asks you if you are a man ?
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What if you do when you're in a women's restroom and a real woman asks you if you are a man ?
This has never happened to me. Of course, I take care of my business and leave, no loitering. It strikes me as a very bold question to ask. What I mean is, it is like asking a woman if she is pregnant. You had better be right or embarrassment ensues. The easiest answer, if that question were to ever be asked is, "Not any more." I promise that will shut down any questioner.
I agree with Jennifer's suggestion "not any more"! This has never happened to me. But I did get quite a few positive comments on my long hair!
I've never been asked that, but have had some positive conversations; which carried over after we walked out of the restroom.
What a surprisingly personal question! My immediate response would be to reply, "No. Are you?"
I've had smiles, even the occasional "hello" "Hi", but really............... if they had to ask, I would recommend they see an optician.
Frankly, I see no situation that would prompt such a question. It would be terribly embarrassing to the questioner if she insulted a GG by asking such a question. Many women would take great offense and I think that I would do the same.
^perfect!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Hi Daniela,
I agree with the others and can say from experience that it has never happened to me. I think it comes down to the fact that even if you look overtly male, the concept of being TS/TG is quite known to many and most women may believe your somewhere along the transition path. So if the question is raised . . . Jennifer's response is perfect to remove any doubt. So long as you go in, do your thing, wash your hands and leave, you should have little trouble.
Hugs
Isha
Your best bet is to leave the restroom. Its neat that y'all have never been harassed in a public restroom, but this does actually happen fairly often. Passing privilege avoids it, but not everyone has it. And if you don't believe that a mother with a young daughter with her in a restroom can react with great hostility if she perceives someone to be male in the women's restroom, then you are kidding yourselves.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.ed...mss-june-2013/
In the survey above, 70% of the trans respondents were harassed in a public restroom.
BTW, if you still think this is a trivial matter, many states are trying to pass legislation to criminalize trans access to public restrooms. Texas, where I live is one of them. If the law here passes, we could be fined up tto $2000 and spend a year in jail for using the women's room. Practically speaking, they'd never get me, as a cop who for some reason questioned me in a restroom would likely look no further than my ID, which says F. For a CD, though, y'all could be arrested. A number of trans people are lobbying to kill these horrible laws around the US.
@Isha - 7% of the US population knows someone who is openly trans. We are not understood or trusted by many. Good luck with relying on the kindness of strangers!
All of this stuff is highly location dependent. In Dallas, gender identity & expression are protected, and you have a right to use gender appropriate facilities that match your expression. In small towns outside of a metropolitan area - good luck with that!
I'd say: "Are you?" Usually they just want to borrow "something" if you know what I mean. :battingeyelashes::)
I am with Paula as this is a very dangerous thing. The best thing to do in a situation like this to me is clam up, give them a look like "you are asking me what?", and hightail it out of there. There are no good jokes or confrontational things to say and your voice may make it worse (depending on the person). You hesitate and you are there with the person, then a security guard or manager, then whatever people like to play flash mob and join in. The bathroom isn't the place to win this battle. The courtrooms and congress is. Be safe ladies.
Jennifer,
For me that is the perfect answer. I have been in transition for just shy of two years. Never happened, and being task oriented, don't leave a lot of unused time in the facility.
Bobbi
Hi Paula,Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that someone could call you on it in the bathroom. However, most here are just saying it has not happened to them but your point is valid. Definitely a woman may/could approach someone who looks mannish and say "Hey are you really a woman?" but I truly believe this would be the exception and not the rule but yes, it could happen. So the question is what do you do then? Your options are limited . . . You could as you suggest, just leave or you could just say yes . . . with the exception of holding you down to verify your private parts . . . it can never be proven or disproven (not mention this would constituted assault). You are indeed correct that a person has to exercise due diligence in understanding what the law states. If you are protected by gender identity laws in place then you are doing nothing wrong and even if the police are called nothing can be done as you are not breaking the law. However, if you are not sure what the laws are or know you are not protected . . . then exercising caution by using a unisex bathroom or leaving if challenged is probably the wisest course of action. BTW the Canadian Senate is trying to tack a "bathroom clause" on a TG rights Bill which would prevent all TG from using the bathroom of their target gender unless they have had complete SRS (ID would not work in this case unless you have a letter stating you are complete). It is unlikely this will pass but should it, then I will be denied access to ladies restrooms in all buildings under Federal jurisdiction including airports.
Hugs
Isha
Jen,
I love your answer....hugs
PaulaQ injects reality into this thread. Challenging someone or worse, being a smart ass is a good way to get the police or worse, a big burly husband called on you. "Not any more" only works if you look like a woman and are actually transitioning. Even then it could lead to trouble depending on the area and the situation. And you had better say it in a feminine sounding voice.
I have used many women's restrooms and never once has anyone given me a second look nor presumed to ask any such question. I've engaged in some small talk at the mirror, but no such conversations ever happened.
In clubs on Friday night, there's no problem at all in the ladies bathroom. In fact, it's a great place to yak with the local girls. At a mainstream restaurant, I'm in and out quickly, mouth kept shut, and busy bathrooms avoided.
It might just be a Canadian thing (very polite you know) but the only comment I've gotten in better than 20 years is 'Nice purse'.
I've always wondered which restroom the "dude in a dress" (the guy with a beard and bald head but women's clothes and breast forms) uses. There are several on this forum but none have ever answered the question.
I have used some variant on "I was, I'm getting better" when I've been hit with that rudeness.
One of my best day's ever
I was out shopping, and saw a mom & little girl, the girl was staring, and pointed, I could see mom shake her head and bring the girls hand down and whisper something to her.
OK - a moment later I hear a tiny "excuse me" from the side & down
I look and there's the little girl, and about ten feet away the mom looking embarrased
"mom said it was rude to ask, but are you a boy or a girl"
Well honey it's not nice to leave your mom when you are supposed to stay with her, and I haven't decided if I'm a boy or a girl
"you should be a girl, it's a lot more fun"
Thank you, that's good advice
The mom was nice, I thanked her for raising a nice kid
Nothing new to add, but to reinforce the old:
o I do not loiter, I use unisex whenever possible, look for restrooms with little traffic, etc.
o I have never been confronted
o A smart ass response is about the worst advice imaginable. No confrontation, no escalation. I suspect I'd make a pouty face and vamoose.
Hugs, Michelle
Wow, that's never happened to me. I would simply say "No" and continue going about my business.
Paula might have a point here - while I may have gotten the odd, quizzical look at times when using the ladies' washroom in "Leslie" mode, I have never, ever been made to feel uncomfortable there. On the contrary, I have received the occasional smiles or even a cheerful "Hi!" when making eye contact with GG washroom users, and more than once have been directed to a stall that had just opened up in an unexpected gesture of kindness when standing in line at a busy time such as during the intermission at a theatre event. But if ever I were to be confronted and asked outright if I was actually a man, I would use a variant of jennifer's phrase and default to the standard response that Ann Landers used to recommend when someone posed an inappropriate question: "Why on Earth would you ask me that?", and thereby deflect it right back at them.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Paula
That said, I once had a GG in the stall next to me ask if I could pass some toilet paper to her under the partition as she had just run out (apparently, this happens quite often in womens' washrooms and is no "biggie" to them). I wonder if supreme gratitude would have trumped discomfort in her case, had she realized that it was actually a crossdresser who had provided this vital ("life-saving"? ;) ) service to her. More recently, I was surprised to hear a a baby cooing and giggling at what appeared to be right outside my door as I was doing my business. When I emerged, it was clear that "Mommy" had momentarily parked the infant's stroller outside her own cubicle which was directly across from mine as she hastily ducked inside to also relieve herself when nature suddenly called.
Discretion being the better part of valor, I quickly high-tailed it out of there in the event that this might have gotten awkward had she come out of her stall while I was still there, but at the same time, I couldn't help smiling to myself that this scenario probably represented the paranoid "bathroom transphobes' '" worst nightmare. Funny thing is, though - neither the "tranny" - nor the dingo, for that matter ;) ) stole the baby... :eek: :heehee:
Ahh.... the ever debatable bathroom thread.
I am one of those that also has never been questioned while using the facilities. In fact I don't know if I have ever been spoken to in the restroom at all, ever, about anything.
So.... what would I do if asked? Hmm.... I honestly don't know. I don't like the idea of saying nothing and leaving, for those you wanting to avoid confrontation, leaving the scene sort of implies guilt. But answering their question.... doesn't really seem like me either. It is quite the personal question. Not a question I would ever go and ask someone. Thus I suppose I would probably tell them that it is a rude question and it is really none of their business.
But.... I do like Jennifer's response as well.
Granted, I don't have a lot of experience with this issue, but I do have some. Most of my "out in public" time has been in Las Vegas where I try to use the bathroom in my room before going out, family bathrooms where I can find them or the large ladies rooms near the convention floor that normally are well away from crowds. The times I've had to use other, smaller restrooms have all gone on without comment, and I probably attract attention. On one occasion I was using the ladies room in a resturant and while in one of three stalls I heard a woman bring her young daughter in. I just stayed in my stall until they were done to avoid the situation, then as suggested took care of hand washing, hair and makeup checking as quickly as possible.
Based on my smaller sample and non-passing status, it may be a surprise that I've not attracted this question yet. I may just have to answer, "Yes, but if I were to use the men's room like this I'd get beat up." Then maybe a comment about how much nicer the ladies rooms are, depending on the response. I'll just have to see what happens if I ever face that situation.
In the meantime, it will be good to watch how those Bathroom Laws develop.
"A dingo stole my baby! A dingo stole my baby!" Hugs, MichelleQuote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Langford
:yt:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dianne S
In the very unlikely event that you are questioned, this is the only response you should make. It is the same response a GG would make.
I don't know what I would do as it has never happened to me.
I don't know where some of you live to get asked a question like that. If you are getting asked that question, what in the world are you doing while in the restroom? I have spent time in all 50 states and many foreign countries (even Texas) in the 45 years or so that I have been dressing as a woman. Not once have I ever been asked if I was a man.
Never happened and I take time to check my makeup and hair before I leave. I agree with Jennifer. I like the answer, "Not anymore." if someone asked.
I've never been asked that and don't know what I'd say if I were asked right of..."Sort of?". I have had a lot of women compliment me in the bathroom which I find a bit odd but whatever I suppose. I had the most interesting comment so far last weekend actually. I was told by a girl when I was leaving the bathroom that I have a really nice walk. I guess I'm doing it right...
I have a good one for you.....I was at Keystone ( dressed obviosly) ....out in public though in a vanilla establishment, NOT the hotel... with about 100 other cd's....went to the bathroom....the ladies line was PACKED WITH CD'S Out the door and around the corner ....
Guys room...wide open...no line
So I walked in the guys room and saw a pair of heels squating in the only stall.
I proceded to use the urinal ( yes...im THAT girl and I had a few drinks in me...)
as the girl in the stall came out I said..."You totally did NOT See me do this"
Turns out it was a REAL GG !! And she says OMG..Im in the guys room !!!!...
Then proceded to tell me either way..its no big deal.
Which was cool, just wish that was how the majority felt.
Funny story though.
I have also had gg's ask me to take pics with them in bathrooms too LOL...
But still depends on where you are and WHO you bump into I guess...
Never had a problem in ladies room, did my business and washed and left as quickly as i could. Now one time when I totally messed up my makeup, way too much concealer and it stuck out. A GG was looking at me in a foyer of a restaurant and my SO said her eyes were bugging out. She never said anything, but i think she was looking closely at my whacked up makeup job.
Things change a bit when there are a lot of us around. Persephone's law states that the chances of being made are proportional to the square of the number of us present. When I'm out with a dozen CDers we're going to be made whether we are in the restaurant or restroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriana Moretti
We have responses here from crossdressers and responses from transsexual women. I think it would help if we knew who was who. If you are a transsexual woman and particularly "post op", then you are a woman, not a man. You have a perfect right to be in the ladies room and nobody should be questioning that right.
As a crossdresser, you may not have that right, especially in the eyes of the less accepting person. You can tell the truth, tell a lie (you are already lying in a sense by wearing breast forms and a wig), try to explain yourself or be confrontational. I would say the best thing is to lie (say "no") and leave as quickly as possible. That's assuming, of course that you did your best to look like a woman. If you have a beard, you are on your own, I have no advice.
If it makes a difference, Krisi, I am pre-op TS.
You say: "As a crossdresser, you may not have that right" which I suppose is true. In my particular jurisdiction, though, crossdressers do have that right because the human rights code protects against discrimination on the basis of gender expression and not just gender identity. I really think that approach is the most civilized.
Well I have never had an issue using the ladies en femme, and certainly have never encountered the OP question, but to answer Krisi's challenge, on a couple of occasions in my life (don't please ask for details on this ) I have been that apocryphal bald-headed bearded dude in a gold lame dress, and then I have used the men's room and hiked up my skirt at the urinal. One such time was on the NJ turnpike. I must have looked such a fright that nobody would have dared mess with me.
And like you, Adriana, my GG wife and I also used the men's at Keystone last month, when the ladies' was crammed with giggling CDs lined up into the corridor and the deserted men's had no line at all.
I think the answer, whichever room you decide is right in the moment, is to be confident and own it... But also to be brisk and quickly gone.
Good question although I have never been asked anything in the ladies room.
I always use the men's room. I never present female.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisi
I've seen many restroom posts so I decided to share one that didn't go so well for the CDer.
We were at a packed nightclub and I was standing in a long line in the ladies room when in waltzes a CDer, goes to the front of the line (mistake #1), grabs the next available stall, and his feet are facing the toilet as he does his business (mistake#2). When the CDer came out, he did not wash his hands (mistake #3) but proceeded to whip out his phone - like he was going take a selfie (mistake #4). In front of me were five ladies that were together (GG's often go to the restroom as a group). One of them became furious (maybe fueled by alcohol), and confronted the CDer demanding to know if he was a man. He proceeded to argue with the "madder than a wet cat" GG, and told her that he, the CDer, was a woman (mistake #5). I won't repeat what she said but it wasn't pretty. His voice was a dead giveaway. At that point, it was more than obvious that he was a man. He escaped unharmed, however that was not the end of it. The women proceeded to tell anyone that would listen about the "man in the women's" restroom and pointed him out. The CDer kind of stood against the wall by himself - again with his phone. I don't know if he knew that she was outing him to everyone in sight.
So, just a few suggestions. Avoid mistakes #1 through #5. Leave the phone in your purse. Don't argue if confronted. Leave!!!
One more thing unrelated to this incident. If you go into a restroom where a mom is dealing with small children, leave - find another place to go. No one wants to accused of being a predator.
On a personal note, I go out with my SO and his CD friends who all use the ladies room. It doesn't bother me a bit. There are many GG's who just don't care who is in the restroom - but just beware, not all experiences may be good ones.
Paula is right, bathroom harassment is not joke, and I have known folks who have had run-ins in the women's room (even FT TSs.) Laws are only useful after the fact, if they are worth anything at all. A GG can cause a big scene, get an angry husband and/or security involved etc.; it is not like an angry GG will stop and apologize if you tell them their are laws in your area that allow you to use the restroom (if they even believe you. If I were confronted, I would do what sue said, give them a funny look and leave, it isn't worth an ugly confrontation with them.
Some who wear womens' clothes but present male have answered this question, and they said they use the men's room.
i've used the womens room no problem,the trick is sit down on the toilet like a lady and wash your hands..i had only one woman say something at a rest area restroom,i just glared at her she shut up,i finished and me and my wife went on our way..i try to use unisex restrooms or restrooms i can lock the door..
The GGs in the women's rooms have always been nice to me. My only bad experience was a 3 year girl came in while I was in a stall and yelled over and over again, "There's a BOY in the bathroom!" Finally she went in a stall, I came out, washed my hands next to her big sister and left. The sister was great.
Char, had the cross dresser waited patiently, acted appropriately in the stall and afterwards, what do you think the reaction would have been?Quote:
Originally Posted by char GG
too funny, glad i read this before bed.... if i read this in the morning their would be no accountability where that coffee would go....Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriana Moretti
thanks for the laugh....THAT girl....precious....
Its never happened to me but I'm sure I would act pissed and storm out.That way I'm not admitting anything LOL
I have spoken with a few ladies in the ladies room and it was cordial.
One said "I love your boots" and one said "cute outfit" to which I said thank you.
It's a lot more likely if you don't even remotely pass. Some of us do not. I know people who have been harassed in restrooms. It is also a function of location, not so much in the sense of what state you are in, but more what the people around you are like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorja
I mean look - you haven't been murdered either, yet surely you believe murders happen too? Or perhaps your actions render you especially murder resistant? Or perhaps you got lucky?
Yep! There it is again. Love all the responses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadine Spirit
How 'bout, "I sure am! Look! See? You were right!"