How many years will it be until we can comfortably"embrace our femininity in public?

I currently tinker on the androgyne style of clothing. It's been pretty comfortable for me and women don't seem to mind my look :). I did manage to go out dressed to a gay bar once, but I still didn't feel comfortable at all, plus there were guys ridiculing me, etc.

I'm 22, and people tell me my generation is a lot more "accepting". I'd have to strongly refute that fact. If anything, my peers are much more judgmental. It's easy to say "don't care what others think!", but that's just not the case more times than not.

I've always wondered though if by the time I'm 40-50 years old, if men will then have the ability to get all dolled up without taking all of the backlash for it. Transgender individuals don't really help our cause because they're just going from one box to another(not saying they had a choice in the matter). Since they are considered to be women, they should also be able to wear the clothing of the opposite gender.

I honestly feel like women are allowed to express themselves so much more in society. As men, we are told to show no emotion and "man up", and if you're gay, good luck pal. It's no wonder why male suicide rates are through the roof.

I truly believe that every man has a least SOME sort of a "feminine" side, for some of us, our feminine side just happens to be dressing very delicately, loving the feeling of being "pretty". Except society outlaws this type of thing greatly, partly because society also hates gays, we're pretty much seen as the same entity.

There are lots of gender non-conforming men on this planet though. Male nurses. Male flight attendants. Male kindergarten teachers, etc. We are truly an extreme minority though, or maybe not, as most people keep this kind of stuff DEEP in the closet. I guess the answer is that we have to be the change and I see some people on this forum doing just that. I envy some of you here.

I'd like to think that transgender individuals like me help the cause. I myself am genderfluid so "going from one box to the other" really won't help me much since my identity isn't static. If anything, my desire to present consistently with my internal gender is much the same as your desire to wear pretty, feminine things. On my feminine days, I want to act like and be received as a woman. To that end, I dress the part. Some days (very rarely) I work up the courage to go out into public and brave the criticism and ostracism. To the random stranger in the street, I am a crossdresser, cause I'm a guy dressed like a girl.

As for my friends (we're in our 20's like you) most have been accepting and supportive. It's a stretch to say our entire generation is more supportive as a whole, but many of us are.

As for your original question, you said it yourself: we have to be the change we wish to see in the world. And to do that, we have to venture out into that world. I myself am not ready to go out and about full time, and I admire those of us who do.

It's really more a problem with you then it is with society. If you are comfortable with who you are and how you express yourself it is not a problem to wear what you want out in the real world today. Anywhere you want (well, maybe avoid the middle east).
You are held back by fear, but most of what you are afraid of is only in your head.
Your a man and your afraid to show femininity to world. Problem is yours.

on a macro scale oh boy it's gonna be a while, On a micro scale how ever long it takes you to feel comfortable in public

I will take small steps, like being able to wear a bra under my tshirts and not have it attract attention. I think we may see this in the next few years, at least I really hope we do!!

Charlotte.

More years than I have left. :brolleyes:

I live a pretty comfortable life and I tend to live in the middle of the spectrum openly. I blur the gender lines in my daily presentation with my friends and at my work. I will also frequently go out fully cross dressed. In doing this for at least the last ten to twenty years I have yet to be harassed.

So I am of the belief that it is true that much of societies apparent non-acceptance is really in our own heads. Yes bad things happen occasionally but that is the case regardless of how someone is dressed. After years and years of trying to conform to who I thought others expected me to be and having many folks still act like jerks, I said screw it and decided that if people were not going to like me they may as well not like me for who I really am.

Only you can answer how many years it's going to be. It will be when you do it.

All I an say is that In a place where it is conservative, I have never had a problem yet. Most people are friendly and mannerly and mind their own business.

I'd bet you could put this one to IBM's Watson...plot trends and demographics and get a 'heat map' of acceptance...wonder if Google's working on that...probably not 😧

There does seem to be a bit of a dichotomy with regards to society’s attitude to crossdressing/transsexualism etc. On the one hand we have people willingly paying their hard-earned money to go and see shows such as ‘Ladyboys of Bangkok’ and have a fascination with the likes of Caitlyn Jenner, Kellie Maloney etc. And yet, an awful lot of people have, at best, a feeling of disquiet with regards to the subject of crossdressing, through to feelings of disgust. Of course, let’s not forget the people who are supposedly open-minded and cool about people wanting to crossdress until it’s a member of their own family!

I’ve toiled over the question of society’s acceptance of crossdressers for a good number of years and I don’t think we’ve moved on greatly. Yes, the internet has revealed more people with open-minded attitudes but on the other hand it has also shown far, far more people with venom and hatred (towards anything, not just CDers) than I could have ever imagined.

I think the best way forward to getting acceptance is to present yourself as well as you possibly can. Dress and makeup suitably for the occasion (leave the mini-skirt and heels at home when you go food shopping!). Observe and try to emulate the real women around you, blending in if at all possible.

As others have said, the restrictions we place on ourselves are put there by ourselves and there does come a point when you have to say…’Sod it world, here I come!’

I guess a lot of it would be if we really care what others think of us and who we are. If you are your own person and an individual, you really don't care. That's the point I'm at myself.:)

I think may be 10 years acceptance might be there outside the workplace - perhaps 30 for workplace dress codes to get there

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Originally Posted by MelanieAnne

More years than I have left. :brolleyes:

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Yeah, well, maybe. That's why I just get dressed up and walk right out and enjoy it. I'm not waiting for society to catch up to me!

hmmmm yeah the transgender and/ or the cross dressing thing has been rattling around in my head for a while. Kind of funny now that being transgendered is ranked slightly higher on the acceptability chart than cross dressers. Like ooooh, it's Ok for you to wear that because you want to be a woman, of course you will wear women's clothes. But just begin a guy who likes express himself and enjoys female fashions is still way too creepy and odd for folks. Perhaps because sometimes ( and maybe a lot of the time ) cross dressing has an element of fetish-ness to it, and who wants a guy like that near children.
However, one of the nice benefits our TG friends have given us CD-ers, is if we are approached we can just say we are a TG-er in transition.

People expect men to be men and act like men and women to be women and act like women. It's been this way since cave dwellers discovered the difference. Animals are the same way.

You don't say where you live, but I can assume you're in one of the more permissive societies in the world already just by the fact that you are able to join this forum and freely post what you posted. You can go out in the world as a man in a dress if that's what you want to do. You won't be arrested for it but you will probably be ridiculed. That's life. People expect certain things and men looking and acting like men is one of those things. If you are expecting this to change, my advice is, don't hold your breath.

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Originally Posted by Saikotsu

I'd like to think that transgender individuals like me help the cause. I myself am genderfluid so "going from one box to the other" really won't help me much since my identity isn't static.

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I think this is the next big hurdle. While there will always be closed-minded jerks, people that actually transition are really starting to see progress. For genderfluid people though, we'll struggle with being told to "pick a side", and be left out of meetings and important clients because it'll seem to customers that we can't make up our minds. As a small business owner myself, I understand the idea. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. It's going to take time. Society never changes overnight.

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Originally Posted by AnnieMac

hmmmm yeah the transgender and/ or the cross dressing thing has been rattling around in my head for a while. Kind of funny now that being transgendered is ranked slightly higher on the acceptability chart than cross dressers. Like ooooh, it's Ok for you to wear that because you want to be a woman, of course you will wear women's clothes. But just begin a guy who likes express himself and enjoys female fashions is still way too creepy and odd for folks. Perhaps because sometimes ( and maybe a lot of the time ) cross dressing has an element of fetish-ness to it, and who wants a guy like that near children.
However, one of the nice benefits our TG friends have given us CD-ers, is if we are approached we can just say we are a TG-er in transition.

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I won't lie. Crossdressing is indeed my fetish right now. I'm slowly getting over the self loathing and the shame it brings me. I just hope that if it ever DOESN'T arouse me one day and just makes me feel more at one with myself that society will be a little more accepting of the situation. I know it isn't others fault that I don't have the nerves to get dressed up and go out, but there is still that small dangerous aspect to it when you try to socialize with people and you have to blend in just perfectly/fake your voice(mine is VERY deep, lol),

I also live in a southern state, so there are lots of "good old boys" and rednecks. I do like when I was out last time and people asked me questions like "so you're gay?" and "have you always felt like you were supposed to be a woman?". Some were just shocked when I replied no to both.

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Originally Posted by CarlaWestin

Yeah, well, maybe. That's why I just get dressed up and walk right out and enjoy it. I'm not waiting for society to catch up to me!

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Way to go girl! I'm following a news article recently on TG students in Catholic schools and it's stirring up a lot of debate with the conservative board occupying the low ground of the battle ☺

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Originally Posted by AnnieMac

Kind of funny now that being transgendered is ranked slightly higher on the acceptability chart than cross dressers. Like ooooh, it's Ok for you to wear that because you want to be a woman, of course you will wear women's clothes. But just begin a guy who likes express himself and enjoys female fashions is still way too creepy and odd for folks.

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Funny, I was just reading an article in the Guardian that posits the same thing. The author was complaining that the new Trans Visibility didn't benefit the non-binary crowd. And yet, they were publishing an article in a major news outlet to bemoan it. I think they missed the point that an article like that would never have seen the light of day even five years ago. Change takes time and it takes effort, you have to give it time and it would be nice to give it some effort and advocate for the change you want to see.

you can "EMBRACE" your feminity in public ANYTIME YOU want to....

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Originally Posted by AnnieMac

However, one of the nice benefits our TG (TS) friends have given us CD-ers, is if we are approached we can just say we are a TG-er in transition.

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and this helps, how? Is this like a get out of jail free card? (NB TSs have given CDs a lot more than that.)

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Originally Posted by AnnieMac

However, one of the nice benefits our TG friends have given us CD-ers, is if we are approached we can just say we are a TG-er in transition.

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OMG NO! Man up and own your own $***! Don't hide behind others. That is spineless.

Back in the "Virginia Prince" era (1960s) there were often discussions about how long it would be before it would be acceptable in society for men to openly crossdress and become part of the norm of society. It is funny, because people often said something along the lines of 40-50 years... and we are still not even close to being there. I tend to doubt it will ever be fully accepted, at the end of the day most people are cisgender and gender conforming and perfectly happy that way. Fashion may change, permissible gender roles may change, but at the end of the day we will always be the exception to the rule.

So you're telling me to man up on a cross dressers website? That's kind of funny in and of itself. Besides this part is true, yes, indeed, I am waaay to much of a girl to do that, when its easier for me to hide behind others and be shy.

Answer = whenever you are able to overcome your internalized transphobia

Transphobia? Nah. More like afraid of being the center of attention no matter where I go. It's a pretty normal human reaction, right? Most of us want to conform to societies "norms" to a certain extent, no?

mp:

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. We'll all be dust before that happens...

DeeAnn

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Originally Posted by mikeyp

Transphobia? Nah. More like afraid of being the center of attention no matter where I go.

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Well how exactly are you dressing that you are such the center of attention?

@Nadine

Uhhhh :)

I mostly fetishize certain outfits, so the other stuff doesn't really do it for me. I like to go over the top I guess? Tight skirts, super high heels, etc. The other stuff just doesn't do it for me right now sadly. So if I go out, it's either all out party girl or nothing. I don't really like "normal" girl clothes or tops. Leggings are pretty sexy though, but I don't really consider that CDing.

Your title of this thread is "How many years will it be until we can comfortably"embrace our femininity in public?," but I think that what you are really asking is "How many years will it be until we can comfortably embrace our sexual fetishes in public."

I am not attempting to be offensive, though I know it will probably come off that way. Cross dressing for a sexual fetish is fine. I fully support people in that. Whatever floats your boat as long as you are not causing others unwanted harm, then fine, have at it. But if you are dressing for a sexual thrill, and wanting to go out in public, then aren't you kind of involving the unwitting public in your sexual activities? There are plenty of sexual things I like to do, but they are done alone or with my wife, and not in public. I suppose if you want the public involved then maybe you need to go to where that is expected, like a sexually oriented club, and not going to the mall.

Maybe if you are wanting to go out in public, maybe, just possibly, there is something going on here that is more than just a sexual fetish? Maybe not. But maybe??

It all depends on you. Many people are comfortably expressing their gender preferences publicly now.

None of us will be alive by then, and that is assuming that it will happen. We live in such a primitive society...

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Originally Posted by mikeyp

More like afraid of being the center of attention no matter where I go.

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Oh that surely is not possibly internal transphobia. Hahaha!

Call it whatever you want. The fact is, getting clocked isn't funny.

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Originally Posted by mikeyp

I'm 22, and people tell me my generation is a lot more "accepting". I'd have to strongly refute that fact. If anything, my peers are much more judgmental. It's easy to say "don't care what others think!", but that's just not the case more times than not.

I've always wondered though if by the time I'm 40-50 years old, if men will then have the ability to get all dolled up without taking all of the backlash for it.

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If a sizable percentage of men wanted to dress in a feminine manner, then it could become mainstream. But the reality is, the vast majority of men don't want to be feminine and so I don't think it will ever be embraced. Even if everyone in our society becomes educated enough to eventually acknowledge that men who wish to be feminine are not sick (and that's a big IF), I think they will still continue to be regarded as outliers and there will still be people who will wish to keep their distance.

So the trick is for you to establish a good group of friends within this community who do accept you and don't pay attention to the rest.

<edit>
I just read your post about the type of clothes you like to wear in public. Nadine is right .. if you want to be accepted while wearing those clothes, go to a GLBT nightclub and not a mall. I mean, even GGs who dress in club clothes at the mall get stared at, and not always for positive reasons.

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Originally Posted by mikeyp

Call it whatever you want. The fact is, getting clocked isn't funny.

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There you go, once you overcome your own fear of being made out as a transperson or crossdresser then you should feel more comfortable embracing your "femininity" while out in public

Hi Mikeyp, Don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen, There is way too much Macho Testosterone floating around.:daydreaming:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

If a sizable percentage of men wanted to dress in a feminine manner, then it could become mainstream. But the reality is, the vast majority of men don't want to be feminine and so I don't think it will ever be embraced. Even if everyone in our society becomes educated enough to eventually acknowledge that men who wish to be feminine are not sick (and that's a big IF), I think they will still continue to be regarded as outliers and there will still be people who will wish to keep their distance.

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Look no further than this... :) What society accepts and cultures as the norms for masculinity defines a great deal of what Western society is about, and a lot more of some Mid-Eastern societies - the main symptom of this condition (crossdressing) is going to be no more acceptable in general society than other outcasts, weirdos, oddballs and rebels will ever be... although tolerance may be guided by education and legislation - that is our only likely compensation...

But yeah, if your chosen dress preference is fetish or otherwise edgy, there are clubs that will cater for this (and not necessarily the LGBT friendly places) but in 'normal world' you will always stand out unless you wear 'normal uniform'. :)

Katey x

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Originally Posted by AnnieMac

hmmmm yeah the transgender and/ or the cross dressing thing has been rattling around in my head for a while. Kind of funny now that being transgendered is ranked slightly higher on the acceptability chart than cross dressers. Like ooooh, it's Ok for you to wear that because you want to be a woman, of course you will wear women's clothes.
However, one of the nice benefits our TG friends have given us CD-ers, is if we are approached we can just say we are a TG-er in transition.

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"Because you want to be a woman". I didn't think anyone on this forum was so uneducated about trans matters. That's insulting, but more important, completely wrong. WE ARE WOMEN!!

"Just say we are a TG-er in transition". WHO???? is going to ask? and what the hell is a TG-er? That would come out as- transgender-er.

Stay inside. And don't talk.

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Originally Posted by Princess Chantal

There you go, once you overcome your own fear of being made out as a transperson or crossdresser then you should feel more comfortable embracing your "femininity" while out in public

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The problem is that fear goes along with a very real threat of physical violence, especially in the South.

AM:

Your reference really points more to transsexuals and not to those of us, including me, who are transgender. While I have a bit of gender dysphoria, I have no desire to transition, live as a woman full time or "be" a woman. It is not enough to move me to try to correct anything. For transsexuals, the lack of alignment between physical and emotional selves is something that must be corrected.

DeeAnn

As others have said, you already have the ability to "doll up" and dress the way you want to. Some people will probably "accept" you. Some may probably will not. Most won't care. You will also never know what people think.

If you want to wait 40 years, or 50, or 60, maybe crossdressing will be commonplace or universally "accepted". Who knows?

But try to live your life for yourself and figure out how to enjoy dressing the way you want to. Live you life for yourself.

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Originally Posted by CarlaWestin

Yeah, well, maybe. That's why I just get dressed up and walk right out and enjoy it. I'm not waiting for society to catch up to me!

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that is my approach as well

I'm comfortable expressing my femininity in public. I go to stores, restaurants I've been to NYC a few times dressed, and other cities, even took the commuter bus into NY. I don't think I pass but I do try to dress appropriate if not one step nicer for the situation.
Once I learned to be comfortable with myself, I've had no problems with the public.