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Are there any girls here who identify as "late onset" in their crossdressing, who have NOT turned out to be late-onset TS, i.e. who have been content to go no further than crossdressing?
By "late onset", I mean perhaps from age 40 or older, rather than childhood/lifelong CD.
thanks, Pamela
Pamela,
I can't help you with this but late onset is a mystery. You are fully aware of my history through our chats, early onset in childhood is possibly more logical .
The jury is still out for me, I think.
As a child any curiosity I may have had towards women's clothing or makeup seemed just a 'passing curiosity', and didn't stick with me in terms of something I wanted to do regularly.
I didn't start actively cross dressing and presenting as a female in public until I was in my 50's, and I've only been out in the community for a year and a half or so. Probably too soon to say for certain what may eventually happen to me.
So far, I'm quite satisfied to dress and present well as a woman, when I choose to do so, or to dress and present as a male when I choose to do so, and to not change my body beyond getting my ears pierced (which I just did at the start of January) or my eyebrows threaded/waxed to a more feminine look.
I self identify as bi and gender fluid, with no sense of gender dysphoria. My opinion today is that while it would be awesome to have real or surgically enhanced breasts when I am in female mode, that change probably has more negative aspects than positive for me. And I couldn't see myself going for SRS unless somehow I found a long-term mate who truly wanted to spend the rest of our lives together with me as a full-time woman. And even then, I'd have to carefully weigh the options to see if a full transition truly seemed worth it for me. I doubt that it would. I'd be more likely to dress full time but forgo the surgery, in that case.
Pamela, what if a person has enjoyed regular or occasional fantasy (sexual or otherwise) about it for many years, but didn't actively engage until older (due to life circumstances) ... do you consider this late onset? In other words, are you only referring to action as opposed to interest?
Even then, I suspect some people don't consider fantasies as having an interest. Things can get blurry for people who grow up with a certain set of definitions.
Yes this would apply to me. As I did not start to cross dress until about twenty years ago. I had no desire to cd before then.
I do consider myself as a "late onset" crossdresser. I got the urge to dress at 60, with no prior memory of ever "trying on something of my Mothers or spouse and have allowed myself the permission to dress, with makeup and wig approximately twice a week. My first purchases were almost exclusively sexy undies and items that were way to young for my age. Since that time (I'm 68 now) I have developed a closet full of age appropriate dresses and casual wear. I have on several occasions dressed and gone shopping, both grocery and to "women's stores (the SA's at Lane Bryant know me by my names - both as a male and female). I have reached a confidence level that I can go into store with my small shopping bag containing my forms and a bra and try on any clothing in any store. As for becoming TS, no I don't think so, only if I were to loose my wife, and even then I would have to think strongly about it. Although, I do admit that having breasts under the skin instead of over does appeal to me.
I have dressed most of my 68 years more so the last 15 or so . I do so enjoy dressing ,i like to use makeup from time to time ,but beond that i don't think so.
Sadly, Pamela, we won't truly know until they're pushing up the daisies... (ie. Dead :straightface:)Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela7
Or you can just add the conditional: "content to go no further than crossdressing - yet...?" :)
:stirthepot:
Katey x
Although interested in crossdressing as a young man, I waited till my sons fled the nest in order to maintain a male role model. So in practice I was late onset. My wife didn't mind (amused tolerance). However I never went the whole nine yards with wigs, forms, and heels. Just femmy androgynous.
I may class as bit of both
I've had an interest in ladies shoes since my early years and my mother would wear her stilettos which I just had to try on. My actual crossdressing and going beyond just admiring women's clothes didn't happen until my 30s when I decided I wanted to buy stilettos and went and bought a pair and for a while I just stuck with shoes. I started looking at this site and decided it was time that I went further and bought a dress. Since then it's progressed to to full blown wigs, makeup, skirts, tops, blouses, jewellery, bras, panties, suspenders, more shoes/boots, more dresses. I have purged along the way and until recently had not done any dressing for about a year, however now the desire has flamed again and I'm loving it.
If your interested I posted some very recent purchases on the 'I went shopping and guess what I bought' sticky, in the clothing and shopping forum, if anyone is interested
Hugs Abbey x
Most certainly the " late cd onset " applies to me. With the notable exception of experimenting with my mother's clothes from 8- 9th grade, I have not had any want to cd until 2+ years ago. As a youngster, I secretly wore my mother's clothes for some time BEFORE the sexual gratification aspect . Prior to that sexual awakening, I seem to recall that I secretly dressed because I was enamored with all things feminine despite the fact that I was an all American sports playing / loving child. I stopped wearing my mother's clothes when the Catholic guilt set in that masturbation was a sin. Thereafter, I recall no exposure to cding as I matured, began to date & later married. While there must have been some subcurrent cd thought, particularly when being exposed to lingerie et.al. while married, I never acted upon the need because there simply didn't seem to be such need.
2 years ago a " latent cd time bomb " exploded within me. There were family & professional stressors involved, but the tipping point, for some inane reason, was watching dance shows on tv where beautiful young women danced so fluidly in gorgeous skin tight / flesh revealing customers. Something triggered a childhood flashback which in turn walked me through department stores to buy women's clothes. From that very first moment of wearing lingerie, heels & a dress, I was hooked beyond any guilt ridden thoughts. I was then 59 years old with a burning desire / need to satisfy my internal feminine soulmate. My cd progression has since hit a roadblock following the reveal talk with my wife & the subsequent marital aftermath disruption .
The need / desire to dress has only increased geometrically since age 59. I am obsessed with the thoughts & desire to dress, socialize & explore the real world while dressed & feeling like a women. I love that feeling. While there are no thoughts / plans of ts, there are incessant thoughts of how am I going to deal with this need as I grow older & closer to retirement. While my wife & I try to sort through this upheaval, my thoughts are literally 24 /7 as to feminine presentations, etc... NEVER did I think , 3 years ago, that my gender identity would be such a prodigious life changing issue. So, to respond to the OP, yes there are late bloomers, ,WHY this happened to me remains a mystery, yes there are times when I wish a pill or a shot would relieve me of this condition, but yes I so do long for the times when that magical woman appears within & before me. I so want for her to be at peace...
Right, Pamela look at Melissa's post above.
Did you mean someone having had no thought, no desire, no fantasy, no fascination, no inkling whatsoever until middle age when they discovered they enjoyed CDing, or did you mean someone who didn't give themselves permission and act upon it until older, even though there was some hint, or interest, or thought, or inkling, that was there earlier.
If you look at Carla4guage and Crissy Kay's posts, they describe actual dressing up only with no mention of whether or not they ever enjoyed looking at or thinking about women's clothes, in ways that are different than men who are not crossdressers.
i'm looking, Reine, and i don't want to prejudice what is put here, nor do i want to constrain responses. Melissa's response is what I hoped to see from one perspective. :-)
My late-onset realisation of Gender Identty
These are hindsights:
I recall my maternal grandfather being a lookalike of Alastair Sim, a renowned British actor who played the CD role as headmistress of St.Trinians. My sisters tell me that my father told them he used to be a little girl but grew up to be a man. He did commit suicide, and like myself wore the brightest drab/man-clothes possible.
My sister’s first cogent words to our mother were “why wasn’t i born a boy?” - she’s always late and i’m always early or on-time - plausible we ended up in swapped bodies; she wanted to be a boy all her childhood. I got a sense on piecing all this together that my soul chose her conception because she was late, and so she got my conception instead - such is the nature of cosmic jokes. When I was born i had to be a male presence (longer story), and when she was boen she could be the female, and i never got to any reason/cause for my deep-set anger at her then - despite the best methods in the business, but with the gender hindsight it became clear.
I remember hating gym and liking the look of ballet aged 5,6,7-ish. I did not understand the growing violence of other boys as I grew up, really my best early friend was a Tomboy - presenting as male without the aggression. My favourite times in childhood were always the girls’ parties, I preferred being with girls, and had little opportunity outside of those times. At 12 or so I remember liking two of my mum’s tops, so she gave them to me. I wore them to death, but then looked in men’s departments to find more - i just did not even think to look in the women’s.
15-23 I had a boyfriend in secret in parallel to all my girlfriends. We both thought we were straight, we maintained that fiction, and eventually life drifted us apart. About 23 years old i remember being in a pub, and seeing a guy in women’s clothes for a stag night. I was envious, desiring to do the same, but did not act on it, nor did I tell anyone else.
In my 30’s, probably, I started a panties fetish, and from 41 I was able to indulge it once together with my present SO. I started wearing them, eventually going fulltime underdressing. At 54 the lights came on, and I started to CD. My management style was likened to female, and really my philosophy was altruistic not for personal gain.
From 40 to present I indulged in almost full-time personal development - a complete therapy for the self, enlightenment, travels to the lands of the gods and back, the whole nine yards, including integrating the goddess, and realising that once a man has evolved enough he can be a woman in his next life. This self-development has stood me and my SO in great stead, giving us an easy ride with the trans awakening of 2015.
I’d never considered gender identity before. I quickly realised there was no defining male nor female behaviour; that is all socially-conditioned. All I could say was the happiness of wearing female clothes outshone the depression of being in drab to such a degree there was no going back. I was happy to be a man in a dress, I did not feel a need to hide or disguise, though i do like occasional make-up.
Eventually though, the chronic body signals came home to roost. Chronic testicular pain was the root of my unconscious dysphoria, together with beard/shaving loathing, but loving the underarm shave, and loving smooth legs and so forth. The dysphoria is suppressed/hidden/disguised from the present self of a late-onset like myself, and so it leaks around the edges however it can, rather like a child that’s been hiding too long from the seekers and wants to be found.
My hypothesis is that many late-onset will have had unconscious dysphoria and suppressed wishes to be a female.
OK, sorry. It's just that as it's ambiguous. One question, similar circumstances, yet different conclusions based on personal definitions, which vary widely from person to person. For example, of two people raised in conservative milieus who started to dress at 40 but who had had prior interest, one might say he was late onset (basing his answer only on wearing women's clothes) while the other might say he had always been interested or attracted but didn't give himself permission to do so until later on in life.Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela7
i'll call both "late-onset" in terms of "taking action on it" then :-)
First started by sneaking on some of my sisters, and mother's clothes at about age 14, then quit over shame and guilt, MANY YEARS did not do it, Age 51 , went full tilt , and bought shoes, wig,s dress, hose, dresses, makeup, the whole enchilada! Have been dressing 2 or 3 times a month, since, and have gone out in public about 20 times total.
Thanks for clarifying. It's dependent on how a person was raised and the values they were taught, more than how they felt.Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela7
I dare say that if you talk to baby-boomers who were children in conservative families and communities during the 60s and 70s when being gay was still considered deviant behavior, and who didn't have the internet to learn there were others like them, you'll find lots of late-onsets.
If the question was, "how early in your life did you notice you were interested in women's things more than the other boys you knew", then the answers will be different. This is not a criticism of what you are wanting to learn, just clarification.
I also started in late 2006 at almost 60 years old after a successful bout with prostate cancer, which is another story. As far as I can recall I never had any previous desire to dress as, or be, a girl or woman, except for a couple of childhood Halloween costumes and a full out woman's presentation at costume party in 1980. After that last one where I used the woman's restroom all night, never bought a drink and danced with the guys all night, I never had an "Aha" moment. Never felt an urge to try that again soon, nor discovered the "true" me. So, I could probably say that I can see some tell tales from the past, that could easily be interpreted as nothing out of the ordinary, or as a long stretch of interpretation as true signs of something deeper inside me. I believe they say little about me. However, that being said, as a CD under the Transgender umbrella, I am now probably more than a CD. I am just letting nature, life and time happen and will see where I eventually end up.
Pamela,
From you and others have said and basing it on my own experience , the strength of the sexual component appears to have a great deal to do with it.
My Cding started early because of the strong connection between girls-clothes and sex, that has driven me from the age of about nine years to the present day without a break. I will admit that the need to appear more female has only happened in the last twenty years or roughly when I came out to my wife, but I have never lost the gut feeling of a need or a desire to wear women's clothes in all that time !
I would consider myself 'late onset', though the seeds of it might have been around since adolescence. I tried on my mother's underthings a couple of times when I was around 11 or 12 but didn't find it particularly interesting at the time. The most important indicator is probably that I have felt since my teens that, given the choice of gender, I'd have picked female. However, I didn't start thinking seriously about it until my mid-40s when I realized I liked and felt comfortable role-playing (in MORPGs) women and that this was a way to express a feminine aspect of myself. Then I discovered trans porn and made the acquaintance of a number of online trans friends and it was only then (around age 50) that I began to feel a compulsion to try dressing. I spent most of this past summer dressed in private, but now that it's cold I find the urge has largely passed. I don't think I'm TS but am tentatively identifying as non-binary.
I never considered CDing or even knew it existed other than the comedy shows of the guy in a dress. I had no idea that guys could do themselves up and actually go out in public and not be noticed. I wasn't curious, never thought about it for me. Thought it was weird. Had no interest.......................................... ..
Then one day, a bit over three years ago, I was looking for a place for my wife to get glamour photos taken. She needs to see how beautiful she is, which is how I see her. I found a place, by the name it seemed to be only about forty miles away. They had beautiful photos! Poses, makeup, outfits, settings, lighting, all done to glamorize the woman in the picture. These women were as beautiful as they could possibly be and then some. Perfect for my wife. And they had videos of the photo shoots. So I clicked on one....................................and........ ....
OMG! OMG! OMG! It was GUYS!!!!!!!! I had NO IDEA anyone did this kind of thing! I had never heard of this, prior to this I would have thought it was weird, would have not wanted to look like a plumber in a dress. But THIS?!? It looked like FUN! It looked REAL. It wasn't mocking femininity. It seemed to be saluting femininity. I called my wife in and showed her. I told her it looked like fun. To experience for a moment what it would be like to be someone as different from myself as possible. Like being a character in the movie Avatar. Or being invisible. And then I forgot about it. Why? Because it wasn't forty miles away. It was THOUSANDS of miles away. Not in Holland MICHIGAN, but Rotterdam Holland The NETHERLANDS. It would have cost six THOUSAND dollars for a couple of days of photoshoot. Totally out of the question.
But while doing the research for my wife, these photoshoots were called something, a "transformation" and I Googled that. Turns out there were a few places across the US and a LOT on the UK, some in Europe, and some in Asia. Then I was done with it......................
Until a month later when work took me to a city that had one of these "transformation" places. I did not choose the location. The location and timing was chosen by the customer. Because a previous two week trip out of the country caused me to be on the next jobsite out of sync with the crew, I was spared the usual multiple meetings. So spared the days of wasted time I finished the job two days early. I had nothing to do. The flight was set for two days later. I had a rental car, hotel, meals, I was even getting paid to sightsee. So I called up the "transformation" place and asked if I could stop by and check them out. I figured that maybe in a couple of years I might be back in that town. The woman told me they didn't do walkins and she was busy. But if I wanted to just pop in and say HI, that would be OK. Thirty minutes later I received a call on my cell at the jobsite that her appointment had cancelled and would I like to come in for a "transformation". The SUCH FUN stated a few hours later.
Never dreamed of it then one day WHAM.
I would not consider a gender change. I like being a guy. I like that I am a guy by choice. I am happier as a guy because I have a choice. I like my guy life. And once a week or so I get to experience a different world, and that make believe me that goes in to that different world has fun doing it. After which I am happy to return to my guy life.
Crossdressing is fun. The fabrics, the colors, the textures, the temperature differences, the heels, long nails, everything is so different from my usual life. But let's face it, it isn't the every day real life for real women. If I did it five days a week as a real woman going to a job where she had to dress up, after a while those five days a week would become just another five days. What makes things fun are the change. Like a real woman getting dressed up for a formal event or the outdoor wear to go hiking in the woods. The differences from her every day wear are what makes it fun for her. Same for me. Usually I am in denim and flannel in the winter and denim and cotton in the summer. Blah colors and fabrics. Then about once a week I get to put on something sensuous. But without that denim the one day a week sensuous would just be the usual.
I am a late bloomer who would never consider a gender change. But I do respect and admire those who do for their need and courage. I offer my help and support for those who do. It just isn't for me. After all, it isn't a choice. It is genetic. And I am part of the proof of that.
My Blog has a post on this very subject:
http://billieannejeansblog.apps-1and...trans-friends/
SUCH FUN!!!!
31 yo here. My dysphoria is likely one that was unconcious/supressed while I spent years reading trans fiction and living in denial about it.
I sort of fit in with your "late onset" I had no cognitive desire until high school. Although signs of femininity were present within me before that. with some very occasional exceptions, held back my desire to dress in female clothing until nearly 50 years of age. I still am not sure if the urge grew stronger, or that I ran out of energy to fight the urge that had been there for nearly 30 years.
Pamela - Your theory does not fit me. What do you base your hypothesis on? It does not seem to match your personal history.
Hi Heather, I hope I said "hypothesis" not "theory" :-), the former is like a possibility to be explored, confirmed or disproven, a theory would be when everything fits.
My hypothesis fits for me as a late-onset of gender self-realisation due to repressions caused by life situations and shaping events and epochs. I wanted to see if folks would respond with "i'm late-onset but happy with cross-dressing", whether others would respond with "I'm late-onset and wondering if I'm TS", and any other variations. If I'd been asked 10 months ago I'd have replied the former, now I'd say I know I'm TS; time allows us to change or to allow more to emerge of the true self.
I would say that for us who are 40+ years old, easy to see that how society was back then would cause us to repress ourselves. Still today as well, but not to the degree. Where we were raised also fits into the equation, as does how we were raised. In my case, not having a solid healthy strong bond with my mother, and no sisters (only child) was a reason as to why it wasn't until my later teen years did my 1st cognizant feelings emerge of want to be her instead of wanting to be with her, although I sometimes felt both simultaneously.
I just saw this. :o
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela7
I agree. I don't think transsexualism pops up out of the blue in middle age.
But, to put it in perspective, of the 4,500 people who have logged into this forum in the last three months, how many will end up transitioning. A dozen or so? Two dozen maybe?
My pet theory is that late TS realization will continue to decrease as people of our generation die off. Younger people have all the information at their disposal, increasing awareness in the general population, and medical practices in place that facilitate the recognition of gender dysphoria.
You've been here 10 years, and seen it all, you're right I feel, very few cross gender rather than clothing.
While among the better-informed, educated, wealthier caucasian middle classes, yes no doubt it might even become the fashionable replacement for dyslexia or asbergers, nonethless I have to question whether the awareness will be well-spread outside of those who do inform themselves well. It will take decades to educate teachers to spot early signs, and in many environments it will not be safe for the male to express femme due to school bullying, to workplace subtle nonacceptance, to wider family worries.
I am 57, and I have been cross dressing for about a year. I am content to cross dress. My wife and I go shopping together for women's clothes. I've tried clothes on in Lane Bryant. Occasionally, wearing a heavy winter jacket, I have gone out with my breast forms. I sleep in nighties and/or camisoles most every night, and often wear mascara and eye shadow. I have a wig on order. What prevents me from going out en femme (so far)
is my unwillingness to shave off my facial hair.
Still, I enjoy the liberation cross dressing brings.
There really is not a CD caste system, is there?
I hope not, Riley. Perhaps different "groupings" of interests and sense of gender, sexuality and cd habit.
That's a relief....
I must have been one of the 2 dozen of 2014!
Yes, you must have been. :) You're doing so well too, congratulations!
The two dozen is an arbitrary number. I'm not about to start going through all the threads and counting how many have transitioned vs just asking about it. But, I don't think it's a high number like 5%, which would mean 225 people.
Thanks Pamela. You originally asked if there were members who were "late onset" crossdressers who have NOT turned out to be late-onset TS. I would guess there is no greater likelihood for those who simply begin to crossdress later in life to be TS than if they began crossdressing earlier in life.Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela7
i have to say that carla4guage could not have said it any better for me......
Pamela,
I am approaching 56 and it has been in the last year that I have started crossdressing. I am doing it very slowly, started with underdressing and am now wearing a little makeup.
I did purchase some dresses from craigslist and that was a mistake.
I have visited a transformation shop once, but was so nervous that I cannot bring myself to return.
When I was a teenager I did try on my sisters clothes, but never had a desire until a year ago.
I am just now getting the courage to purchase other items for my journey.
I have no desire to do anything more that crossdress. As someone said having real boobs sounds better as a female, but as a male it just does not work for me.
Great thread.
Randi