Office Politics

Good Morning,

So I over hear a loud New York accent female berating Catlin Jenner. After a moment or two she has three other people making fun of her. So I got to my tipping point and asked her if she won any Olympic gold medals in the Decathlon? If it was even possible for her to compete in any of the events? When I got the dumb looks I reminded them that she achieved that honor back in 1976. They in turn shot back to me "So you're defending him?" And I said, that I would defend anyone with the strength to represent the USA. Our athletes need our support, too many kids are stuck with their face glued to a monitor or cell phone. That our society needs to change. "If you cannot embrace someone else's desire to be different or support the courage they are exhibiting then go back to your cave."

I may have overstepped my place in this cubicle world. But I cannot stand the armchair Generals or conceited, opinionated and short sighted people. It is easy for them to point and laugh but they don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and put themselves in the other's shoes. . .

Sorry for the rant. :Angry3:

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Michelle

Good for you Michelle,

That sort of thing is usually started by an insecure bully type that is trying to make themselves seem special at someone else's expense. Then there are the others who are also insecure and jump on the bandwagon to try to fit in. That's not the kind of crowd I'd be proud be a part of. It took a lot of nerve for you to stand up to them. It's difficult to make yourself stand out in opposition in a workplace where you have to deal with these people all day, every day. That's not the kind of thing they forget about or have the honesty to admit that you are right so they hang on to it and think of you as the 'transvestite lover' or something of that sort. They're just weak

Liz57:thumbsup:

Sounds like it was very well said, and entirely justified. Rant on!
Julia

A good number of our brave veterans also ended up coming back and transitioning. Most don't know that. :)

Michelle,

Good for you. It needed saying and the fact that they had no clue as to what you were talking about shows the shallowness of their education. I do remember the 76 Olympics and Howard Cosell reporting on Jenner's victory in the Decathlon.

I'm writing because I wanted to echo Liz57's warning. Little people like that don't let go of losing for a very long time. I would suggest you be prepared for pushback. However; none of this will be directly to your face. No, it'll be a campaign of whispers and innuendo behind your back. I just wanted you to be prepared.

Stay the course.
Linda W.

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Originally Posted by Linda E. Woodworth

Michelle,

Good for you... I would suggest you be prepared for pushback. However; none of this will be directly to your face. No, it'll be a campaign of whispers and innuendo behind your back. I just wanted you to be prepared.

Linda W.

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Thank-you Linda

Your warning is justified, but I don't fear them and they know it. The only respect I show any of these clowns are my fellow Veterans. Whispers are for those that have no backbone.

Again thank-you

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Michelle

Thanks for being an ambassador of sorts there in your office to attempt to educate your fellow associates / co workers.

Society has to change and it's people like you having those tough discussions that will help shape others views on our community.

And after all today is Trans Visibilty Day...., so good job making us visible in every sense of the "word".

Alternatively though I personally feel that Caitlin's circumstances are such that she can in no way relate to things that real trans people are up against, as there are probably less than a dozen or so trans people in the whole USA that have access to what she had with regard to money and support for transition. (it's just my thoughts)

So I hope that when people who are talking with others about trans issues that they will point out that Caitlin is truly the exception and not the gold standard for the trans community.

Keep up the good work and don't worry what others will think, because an hour from now they will be onto something else totally unrelated.

so being that its transgender awareness day a knuckle bump seems to be in order but we lack the emoticon for that, :^5:

as far as blowback from those type of folks i just admit to having someone in my family as trans, just dont specifically disclose that it is me :D fun to see them backpedal out of the statements they just made....

I heard one woman at work going on about how nice it was that states were cracking down on "those awful trannies" using the ladies rooms, and I don't care if you're a man use the men's room.
I asked if she though women should only use the ladies room, she said yes!!!!, I asked under all circumstances?
she said hell yes!!!!!!!!!
I suggested that she would not be happy if Ms. Buck Angel (F to M transgender, no bottom surgery, porn star) decided to be all law abiding and use the ladies room
She said I have no idea who that is
I said you can google, set your browser for safe - I heard a muffled shriek a moment later.

Carefull what you pray for oh religious & righteous types

When Caitlyn came out there was quite a bit of discussion around my workplace too. Most of it wasn't particularly negative, just shock more than anything else. There were some snarky jokes but what I heard were fairly mild. I should mention that I wasn't out at work at this point, but would be within a few months.

My boss and I had one discussion about her being referred to in one article as a hero, which he took exception with. His view was that a hero is someone who saves their squadron-mates in a firefight or someone who rushes into a burning building to save small children. I remember politely reminding him that a "hero" can take many forms and that someone can be a hero to one person may or may not be the same to someone else. I told him that Ms. Jenner may not ever mean anything to him but she could very well be the only reason some kids who are desperately trying to figure out "WHY" are still alive today. She could very well be someone's inspiration to keep going, to live another day. I think he got it, but hadn't originally thought of it from that standpoint.

One of my other co-workers had brought her up and kept referring to her as "him". To which I immediately corrected as "her"..... It took forever to complete the conversation.

When I came out at work a few months later, HR approached my boss about me during the planning stages of my coming out at work. He later told me that all he could think about was that day when we had that conversation about heroes and apologized. I just said that heroes take many forms. I should mention that he's been one of my greatest supporters since coming out and I'm glad he's my boss.

The other co-worker is one of the few at work who has consistently gotten my pronouns correct since I came out. I always wonder if that conversation we had when I kept correcting him made that difference.

I wouldn't worry much about overstepping your place at all in this case. That sort of talk can grow like a cancer without a voice of reason to counter it.

Caitlyn Jenner did not win an olympic medal. Bruce did. In trans politics our old persona is dead. Hence the term dead name.
Caitlyn may be holding onto her dead self because she has no other self. Any other transwoman would say 'Who are you talking about?'. If they were berating Caitlyn because she's trans- That's a no no. If they were giving her a hard time for her politics, or public statements- Fair game. She's an idiot.

I hope you would have defended Caytlin's right to be herself even if she hadn't been an Olympic decathlon winner? I'm not criticizing you and I'm glad that you defended her, but the point is her right to be who she is no matter her past achievements or non-achievements. When we diffuse this with someone's past achievements, it may give the impression that we think the achievers are particularly worthy, more than people who haven't achieved noteworthy things.

As to my own experience, I used her coming out to take a temperature of what people think of TGs in general. I mostly spoke to women and the attitudes weren't as positive as I would have hoped. They mostly all believed she had a right to transition and they understood that she needed to, but most had a "whatever" attitude because none had been personally exposed to transitioners (it's difficult for them to understand the motives). Most of the people I spoke to did not like the image that Caytlin presented in the beginning (the glam look) since this gave the impression she was either doing this for show, for money, plus it gave the impression she had a idealistic view of what being a woman is all about.

I am a veteran, and dittos to Kate Simmons! I remember when it was understood, that we can disagree, but we would be willing to suffer and die, for anyone's right to disagree with us. you have a right to voice your opinion, to fellow workers.

Michelle, you rock! That took a lot of guts and you handled the situation very well. Thank you.

I was in a shop today talking to a customer and it came up that they have a crossdresser working for them, in a male dominated field. I told them so what, who is he hurting? They mentioned he comes to work wearing colorful fingernail polish, but he does have to wear the company uniform. I told the customer it makes no difference to me as he is hurting no one and there is much more important things to be concerned about.

Roflmao good job for helping to stand up for our rights and identities the only person i've ever seen show any hate our way is my father first hand that is little does he know his first born son is really hist first born daughter ill try to correct him when I finally break that wall down and tell him.

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Originally Posted by I Am Paula

Caitlyn Jenner did not win an olympic medal. Bruce did. In trans politics our old persona is dead. Hence the term dead name.
Caitlyn may be holding onto her dead self because she has no other self. Any other transwoman would say 'Who are you talking about?'. If they were berating Caitlyn because she's trans- That's a no no. If they were giving her a hard time for her politics, or public statements- Fair game. She's an idiot.

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It is pretty judgmental, narrow-minded and mean to call anyone an idiot because their politics and opinions are different than yours.

Yes Ladies ,us veterans and those still serving want to remind all that---------- because we serve and defend the freedoms it allows the narrow minded ,mis informed types the freedom to espouse their ignorance ,I like man of you have lived in parts of the world where not only c'ding is forbidden or cruelly treated but the very idea of free thinking and speech is also forbidden . As shakespeare once said "me thinks you protest too much " trying to hide from the fact that they too might feel like many of us .
hugs phylis anne

Sissy Michelle, I think you did a good thing defending the rights of another person for being who they want to be, not what others think they should be. I haven't worked in an office setting in many years but it sounded like high school chatter not a proffessional work place.
I joined this site, recently, hoping to connect with people like you

You know I had a similar conversation with a coworker awhile back, I told them if a person was that unhappy with themselves then shouldnt they do something about it? It was end of conversation. Most people will never understand that though. I think you did the right thing Michelle.
Doing the right thing isnt always the easy thing.

One's current gender does not erase the past. Caitlyn Jenner is the person who won Olympic gold despite the handicaps she had at the time. She's corrected some of those handicaps since.

I am amazed at how rapidly some in our community turn on others in the community who do not conform to their trans stereotype.

Michelle, you did the right thing. Bigots tend to deflate rather rapidly when courageous people call on them to justify their assertions.

Way to go, Michelle! You're no sissy. ;)

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Originally Posted by I Am Paula

Caitlyn Jenner did not win an olympic medal. Bruce did. In trans politics our old persona is dead. Hence the term dead name.
Caitlyn may be holding onto her dead self because she has no other self. Any other transwoman would say 'Who are you talking about?'. If they were berating Caitlyn because she's trans- That's a no no. If they were giving her a hard time for her politics, or public statements- Fair game. She's an idiot.

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Deadname is a ridiculous hyper-PC term. No, what's dead is the mentality that you need to lie about your past and disconnect from everything you ever did or ever were (as if Caitlyn Jenner could), even if you are proud of it and with good reason. That made the lives of trans people in the past much harder than they needed to be. Perpetuating it is wrong.

No, don't call people by a name they're not using anymore. No, I'm not saying that if you feel like your pre-transition past was a lie and a mask, as it was for so many, that you shouldn't move beyond it. But don't go telling others they're bad at being trans because they address their pre-transition past differently.

Nice rant :) As someone who competed in track and field in the same timeframe, but never got close to Caitlin Jenner in terms of success, I totally support her. I did then and I do now.
PS. I was closet TG then, out now. Would have been great to know that she was TG then as well...

In my own non-cubicle work environment, I've heard way too much Jenner bashing. Mostly from micro-tooled insecure baboons.
After I've mentioned a few times that someone very close to me (Carla) is transgender and that I didn't appreciate their evil, all that nonsense stopped.
I just playfully imagine being in HR and announcing, "Because I am transgender!"
And, just like Cait, I'm a person with a present, a future and a past. Regardless of where I see myself on the gender scale.

I don't see where calling people names because they don't agree with you gets anybody anywhere. And I don't see where getting into arguments at work with people you work with gets anyone anywhere either.

It's often said that you have to pick your battles. Assuming that your job is intended to be a career, not something you do until you get a better job, it may be best to just leave the room when you hear a conversation you don't like.

Yea for you Michelle. If we don't stick up for those like us, How in the heck can we expect others to do it.
I have done the same in discussions with closed minded people and I am sure after walking away, they wondered, wow, I never would have guessed he supported him. We all must have a little courage if we ever want to be accepted.

I don't even think this is about Jenner either, I think we need to stand up for any person that others are talking about and it is not right.

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Originally Posted by Sissy_Michelle

I may have overstepped my place in this cubicle world.

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No, you didn't. B/S like that ALWAYS needs to be challenged. Reason being that it is often a short hop to pointing a finger at someone close at hand. People don't say "Man, I hate those trannies, but the queers are OK.". Chances are if they disparage one of us, they will likely disparage ALL of us, so it's best to stop it before it gets started.

DeeAnn

Wow, way to go! Even if you're perceived as a full on man in this context, that's sticking up for the 'stalwart underdog' and whatever gender you are it's a truly admiral quality!

@Rachael.Davis - ya, Buck Angel...female model becomes super man...I'd like to see that guy walk into the ladies room 😉

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Originally Posted by I Am Paula

Caitlyn Jenner did not win an olympic medal. Bruce did. In trans politics our old persona is dead.

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So if you had a child and transitioned you would stop loving it and never speak of it again? Ain't buying it.

Edit: The more I think about this absurd idea the more it hacks me off. Are the Wachowskis, formerly the Wachowski brothers, now the Wachowski sisters, who made "The Matrix" series of movies no longer filmmakers because those personae are "dead"? Does a person who transitions have to give up all their patents, trademarks and copyrights? It is total nonsense to say the persona is dead. People speak (euphemistically) of the name being dead, not the person. Your history doesn't die when you transition, it just gets more interesting.

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...In trans politics....

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Hmmm, is there a "Trans Congress" that defines what is trans and how trans people should act? Perhaps an "in" group that was happy to be considered the intelligentsia of the Trans movement and now feels threatened by someone whose public prominence eclipsed their own?

Sorry, but from my point of view "trans politics" isn't going to make me forget my past or abandon my wife and children. Maybe I don't fit into their narrow vision, but I need to live my own life, not theirs.

In this world there is too much intolerance. It is not limited to anyone and everyone on the transgender spectrum. There are too many people who dislike, discriminate or are intolerant of people who are not like themselves. Everyone should stand up to any sort of discrimination and bigotry. I know this thread is dealing with transgenders, but, I've heard the same dribble over my six plus decades about gays, lesbians, blacks, Latinos, persons of other faiths (too numerous to list), etc. If you don't stand up for someone, then, don't expect anyone to stand up for you when your time comes.

What, an essentially peaceful and inclusive group of people defined by their beliefs, being hi-jacked by self-serving politically manipulative extremists with a view to furthering their own ends? Surely that could never happen?

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Originally Posted by Eryn

Hmmm, is there a "Trans Congress" that defines what is trans and how trans people should act? Perhaps an "in" group that was happy to be considered the intelligentsia of the Trans movement and now feels threatened by someone whose public prominence eclipsed their own?

Sorry, but from my point of view "trans politics" isn't going to make me forget my past or abandon my wife and children. Maybe I don't fit into their narrow vision, but I need to live my own life, not theirs.

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