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Dainty,take up less space,defenseless,dependent ,delicate and more fragile?
Does being much more feminine scare you?
I hear flawless and are stealthyTS tell TG's who are transitioning how hard they look." You look hard as a brick" are "you look like a brick" and "your a butch queen".some hold on to masculinity so that they are able to defend themselves and are called Butch queens as a result . some let go of there masculinity entirely and go stealth and try not to associate with CD,tg,ts etc.
Yeah the vast majority of words or ways you describe women is not the way I would. I wonder how many women would describe women that way. What does that say about each of us?
At times women have those traits more often then masculine men.
Less Testosterone equals less physical strength.
SummerB.,
The answer is no, going back to the recent thread of " Real or an Act ?"
I'm still me, the difference being dressed as a female to satisfy my inner needs, I may smile more and feel happier but nothing else changes !
I'm sure there are women physically stronger than me , women fall over things as much as men, none of this really matters !
Sure, I'd agree with you on that, in general, but I don't think that equates to being:Quote:
Originally Posted by summerbunny
Again, I would simply say that you and I have a different view of what it is to be a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by summerbunny
Not afraid at all. I'm actually more empowered and less afraid to be myself en femme. :):battingeyelashes:
That sounds like
"Olive Oyle" on Popeye cartoons! Most women in the USA today, are acting tougher than ever before.
I and another crossdressing friend actually appear physically taller and stronger when crossdressed than wearing our usual guy clothes. And I am not talking about looking like a "butch queen".
The transitioners that I know are just themselves and they're doing fine. Personally, I don't know any that take up less space, are defenseless, are dependent, are delicate or are more fragile. But, neither am I (I'm a GG) and neither are most women that I know. It's true that women mostly can't beat men of their size at arm wrestling, but that's OK. It doesn't make us weaker in general. We no longer live in a world where we need physical strength to survive.
Dainty? Who wants to be dainty. Most people want to be strong. We need to be in order to survive.
You need better "friends" that you hang out with or different places to go, IMHO.
Chantal, I agree some of us look tougher, stronger, when dressed. I think i do in some photos.
But Summer didn't say woman. Feminine is "having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with women, esp. delicacy and prettiness:" Maybe effeminate would be a better word choice? (of a man) having or showing characteristics regarded as typical of a woman; unmanly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadine Spirit
I'm not at all afraid to be feminine and demure. That doesn't mean I have to be fragile and weak and depend on everyone else to do things for me.
I would not describe most women as "dainty, take up less space, defenseless, dependent ,delicate and more fragile. These adjectives are not positive and maybe condescending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ressie
1) summer MEANT women
2) it's not the word(s) it's the stereotype. Maybe it just misogyny.
Even before I crossdressed, I was many - if not all - of these things; even now I still am quite a few of them, though I may not be crossdressed. And I doubt a single outfit of any gender is going to have any impact beyond altering my appearance, my body language and how anyone else would look at me. Sure I may look more dainty, delicate and arguably vulnerable while dressed in a supposedly hyperfeminine outfit, but beneath all that I'm still the same soft-spoken, scrawny and emotionally vulnerable individual, without the getup necessarily getting in the way of that.
I wouldn't touch the words 'masculine' or 'feminine' when I describe mannerisms here.
When I'm out dressed I feel more at ease and behave more laidback and softer than in drab. Perhaps because I'm in a much better mood when en femme. I'm more polite and tolerant, even daintier. That's about it. I'm not afraid of this softer side of me coming out. Actually I like it. I'm still capable of reacting strongly if pushed to far, and in that sense the male side of me remains. I still remain me, with a softer side more in evidence.
I always have been weaker, more vulnerable, softer.
The one good thing about being dressed is that you no longer have to fake that you aren't to earn man cred... no need to posture like a rooster.
I too feel much more at ease with myself when dressed, and enjoy that softer side. Heck I even enjoy the softer side now when i drab, with the right people (mostly in the company of women).
I am me, I am happy, I dont see how me being happy makes me any different than just happy....
Summer you need to stop reading so much goofy stuff on the internet.
Maybe change friends or at least stop taking what they say verbatim.
Some not all inner city black women will fight as dirty as a man and act more like men than women.
Hell they even run off their men and have them put in jail, to me thats pretty tough.
Your theory doesn't hold water.
Just because I like to dress doesn't mean it changes me physically.
I may be small in stature but I can fight if I have to.
I'm gender fluid (just realized that, I think, kinda, maybe 😧 ) and my take on this is all about manerisms?
When I'm a 'guy' (not that often, I try to avoid it) I tend to TRY to walk like an ape and frown a lot, hands firmly clenched in a fist, ready to deliver a defensive blow 😡 (yah, totally over compensating!)
When I'm 'tween', my manerisms are...natural, I wiggle a little when I walk and my arm movements are, well, kinda femme ☺
When I'm a chic, I move like a chic (I strive for poetry in motion) 😃
Am I afraid to be weaker, soften, more vulnerable...as a guy, yes...as a chic...I think I'm afraid of NOT being 😐
Anyone 'read' those emoticons, Pamela? 😉
Need to be careful - a lot of gender and some racial stereotyping in this thread.
I don't think feminine needs to be defined as weaker. in guy mode I am a karate instructor, and urge my female students to rise to the max of the aggression they can muster in self defense. When I am in fem mode I am aware of the aggression I can muster (not in anyway less then when I am male) in self defense. Personal strength and the ability to use it is not gender specific. However training and technique are essential to maximize effectiveness.
I'm not sure what "weaker" means. Does it mean intelligently using reason to know or where to engage with threats, or is it "weaker" to fail to respond to any threat with scorched earth tactics?
I have a hard time without absolutes and strawman and black and white fallacies.
Regardless, I don't feel any weaker when expressing love and empathy openly for others. In fact, I gain strength, confidence, and solace from it.
Do I walk around limp-wristed and things like that?mi don't think so, but if I do, it is who I am. Others judgements says much more about them than me.
When presenting as a female it's not a bad idea to act a little less masculine. I think that's what Summer was driving at. Looking like a man in a dress is undesirable by most CDs that are presenting in public.
Honey FYI you can spend hours on You Tube watching videos on this subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherdress
Its real and you can go watch for yourself.Search BT 1000 and see what comes up.
I never gave it much thought until a black male friend of mine asked me to watch some of them after we discussed why he won't date black women.
Because something is on YouTube doesn't make it OK. Racial stereotyping is still racial stereotyping, even if you spend hours watching it on YouTube.
I'm not saying its OK and I wasn't stereotyping at all.
If you are not willing to look and listen to the black man discussing it you are turning a blind eye to the problem.
The black men are the ones suffering from these kinds of women.
Tracii, I looked up Sotomayor's BT 1000 (a term he coined to specifically describe Black Terminatrix 1000 women, from the Terminator video games). Yes, there are black women who are tough. But there are also tough white women, tough latinas, tough asian women, etc. It's about socioeconomics, not race, just the same as it is with men.
I saw a video on facebook a few days ago, for example, of a serious street fight between women, in one of the poorer slavic countries. They were white. It really has nothing to do with race.
So in this respect, your earlier post specifying that such women are black I think is a stereotype. It might have been best to simply say "tough women particularly those who are underprivileged, no matter the race", especially since in this thread we are speaking of women in general, presumably of all races throughout the world.
Many white guys won't date American women.
I have dated every race you can think of and i must say its all the same.
I don't date white women although i am pursued often. Its more likely for me to date a white women that accepts cross dressing
I LOVE BEING AFRICAN AMERICAN.i would suggest tracii g not listen to self hating sotomayer on YouTube!
Race has very little to do with things,It's the culture ,character and social norms etc that are important to mer
My dad looks white but he mostly dated dark African american women. Have of my family looks white but the birth certificate says otherwise. In mississipi you will see black folks with blue eyes and light to medium dark skin for an African American.green eyed Africans,Africans with blond hair. Mixed families everywhere.
I don't get stuff from YouTube are the internet but i know you listen to that CLOWN on the internets youtube tracy calles sotaomyer who says he does not date black women .
I bet you listen to Faux news and rush Limbaugh too.
That's telling me about your character.
You Listen to Clowns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
I am not really sure what summer is actually getting at.... but at least for the thread title.... For many many years, I tried to avoid the femininity that is natural to me. Not necessarily defenseless though, and neither are many women. Actually, I have had jobs where I have needed some people handling skills... in the physical department that is. Femininity is what it is, and my natural mannerisms do make me move in ways more similar to how most women move. I guess you can say I was afraid to be me. I tried in vain for nearly 3 decades to get rid of these natural feminine traits. Now, I accept myself a little more... it is a work in progress and probably always will be. I never have to try or practice feminine traits. I do have to focus sometimes when in situations like work or social functions to keep the fem traits under wraps a bit. Even then, I am no longer as concerned as I used to be about it. I try not to make the obvious girly girl type movements and actions.... but if people perceive me as feminine, well, I guess that is because I am, and I am ok with that.
Hi:
Actually, I like feeling softer and less in charge.
Kris
HRT definitely reduces physical strength so I am weaker.
However, nothing is going to make me smaller. Therefore I act like what i am, a very tall 50something woman. I'm not coy, demure, or cute. I have adopted many feminine mannerisms learned from observation but I'm more of the Strong Female Character type. In Firefly terms, I'm more Zoe and Inara than Kaylee or River.
I am more Vulnerable in high heels,earrings,nail extensions and a corset.
There is sometimes fear as a result.
High heels make me lean forward and limit my motion,earring can get snagged,corsets limit my mobility,nails make me alter my grip.
These thing make me vulnerable, thus weaker.
HRT REDUCES MUSCLE MASS, INCREASES BODY FAT PERCENTAGE and redistributes essential fat storage areas to hips,thighs,buttocks,arms,cheek bones and subcutaneously.
subcutaneously is why women's skin is soft
you can go with this are that
Dainty=pretty & delicate. like a rose are a flower, a lace dress .........
why be just a "MAN IN A DRESS". ruff and hard like penitentiary steel are a brick.
,
I do Kung fu/gong fu,wing chun,hapkido,boxing,Chinese boxing,judo,ninjitsu,iron palm.....,
This question opens so much up to ones interruption of the question and what is feminine. Ask 100 people what that feminine is and you may get 101 answers.
My answer is yes I would love to be more feminine and I would not have any fears.. I strive when I dress to be a lady. What that means to me will be different than everyone else. So here are some of my thoughts on what it means being a lady. I will sit back, slip my heels off, have some tea and watch the responses.
As far as taking up less space if you mean due to the limitations of wearing skirts and dresses yes bring it on.
Physically weaker would be an adjustment. My wife bring me jars to open and can not lift as much as I can.
Weaker emotionally: We had a great loss in our family with the loss of a child. My wife cried and cried and it is was emotional response. I wanted to drink and then hit something. I believe hers was the better response and I do not consider crying weak. Society has given it that title. We were both suffering and we got through it together. She was not weaker than I was.
Women many times feel things more than men but that is not weakness. Normal everyday problems and frustrations most women just handle the situation. I believe one of the problems is how men interpret this. Women will talk about a problem and men will offer a fix to it. Women just want to talk about it and do not need a solution to the problem they are more than capable of handling it on their own.
Talk about being weak. Be very careful about getting between a woman and her family. I like to watch Everybody Loves Raymond. The scene where Deb defends Ray from the cookie lady when Ray and his daughter are selling cookies I feel is very accurate in many cases. Yep I would be happy to be that weak.
Dependent. My wife and daughter are very independent. I think most women are but just like everyone it is nice to have someone in your life you can depend on. Many women are dependent on their husbands for financial security but many men are dependent on their wives for the same thing.
My wife and myself would both be okay on our own but together we are great. It is nice having someone you can depend on to be there for you.
I mentioned earlier when I dress I want to be a lady. Traits that I consider lady like. Intelligence and willing to always learn new things. A lady is honorable, and values and respects others. A lady has a strong work ethic. It does not matter if she is a CEO of a company or CEO of the house. A lady is there for others. A lady values her appearance. We are blessed to have many ladies around us.
Looking at the list above you may strike lady and also insert men as that is what men should do also.
I am envious of women on several issues and that is what I would love to experience when dressed. When men get together it seems to be a competition on who has the best, the largest, the newest etc. Women get together and with the right group talk about family, friends and share things. I would love to be in with a group of women who never have seen my male side and be able to talk about how things are going, talk about family and just have them there for me and be there for them.
After the death of one of my children it was the women that stepped up to the plate and helped out. When I went back to work the men avoided me the women checked on me and supported me. To me that support is a feminine trait. So yes please let me be more feminine, no fear here.
I guess we are talking about the physical presentations, like wearing heels or having long nails? of course there is an increased vulnerability there, wearing heels will limit your movements somewhat. I don't know how fearful CDers are of that?? I mean we look to wear these things when we don't have to.
As for simply being a woman, ask Ronda Rousey about vulnerability hehehehe. Women are generally by nature smaller and have less natural physical strength then men are by nature. So, physically able to do less that requires strength than men. I guess in that sense, it makes them more vulnerable. Although women can learn self defense and can become quite capable of defending themselves rather than to scream and cower while wearing their high heels, like in the movies.
I wouldn't subscribe to the above as a definition. Sure, there are some who would check all of those boxes and many others who would check very few OR it may be situational in that some rise to the occasion as needed and revert when the situation changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by summerbunny
What I would say is that for people with a fair amount of male identification, our conditioning as males can make it more difficult to round off the sharp edges and adopt a more low key persona. Further, it has to be a genuine attempt. If not, it will be seen as fake very easily.
DeeAnn
Famine aspects do not make a lady fragile. Most ladies are feminine have an attitude, but do not cross them. Now when dressed to the max as a woman. yes it is not a good defensive operational position to be in. however, one can kick off the heels and protect oneself when one has to. I know several women who can protect themselves and while we are fem and dressed to the max, we don't often think about that. But danger can always be near. I do scan around but less when dressed. But if someone would take a punch at me I would react and it would not end well for me or him. In Texas we have a stand your ground law and well I think it has stopped a lot of fights and really grown people should not fight anyways. I think everybody should workout and keep in shape as well as doing defensive moves like karate. I have and well don't mess with this girl. I also stay away from problem areas. But I do look feminine and masculinity is not my trait but I can and would defend myself.
I do wang chung: http://youtu.be/bf4x36XKhsMQuote:
Originally Posted by summerbunny
Seriously, I see a distinction between "weak" and "vulnerable" - they are not synonyms to me. But I have a tendency to over analyze things. This is why I can't have friends. ;)
I've said it before and I'll say it again - Strapping on a pair of boobs and a wig doesn't change who you are inside. We may try to act "more feminine" with our boobs on but we haven't changed our actual selves. If I am afraid of anything, it's being recognized by someone I know.
most men do not know how to actually fight.
my heels have straps and it takes time to take them off especially with nails in medium length.
i Don's wanna get my ear ripped in a fight so the earrings need to come off.
this takes time and someone can get knocked out in seconds.
i have had to do this to fight a gang before.
real wing chun kung fu
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K1F-vXRFgyM
Well bunny, I guess you know why many women know to avoid certain places and situations. But guys for the most part do too. When I lived in CA many moons ago, I knew certain places where me being Caucasian was not the place to be. Guy or not a guy, situational awareness is what it is. Best to be where you don't have to be involved in a gang fight, regardless of gender.
If this is your definition for women being "dainty, defenseless, dependent, delicate, more fragile, etc", it's not. While it is generally true that women are not as physically strong as men, wearing mini skirts and strappy high heels with long finger nails has nothing to do with it. Women can be attacked if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, even if they are wearing jeans and sneakers and have short nails, and even if they are not "hot" looking.Quote:
Originally Posted by summerbunny
If YOU hang out in unsafe places or in places where your presentation can trigger attacks, then I suggest you go to safer places while dressed such as a mall in broad daylight, preferably in safer parts of town. And please stop thinking of women the way you do. This type of thinking is outmoded.
Due to how most of us have been raised, we see femininity as being weaker. That is a core impressed upon us by general society. When you step back and really look, weakness is only a perceived idea. Each and everyone of us has many weaknesses and many strengths. They are you, your being, that has been derived by your experiences and reactions through your life.
You have to decide what would be best for you.
Never hurts to take a defensive course.
This has been closed as it has drifted away from the original question.