Very sad day. My wife came home and found a skirt that I had left out. Was planning to iron it and forgot about it. It did not go well. She is not a tolerant person.
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Very sad day. My wife came home and found a skirt that I had left out. Was planning to iron it and forgot about it. It did not go well. She is not a tolerant person.
Ouch, sorry to hear that Sheri! Hopefully your SO comes around, it might be a good thing in the long term.
This happened Fri afternoon. She said I make her sick. In years past, she was much more tolerant, even surprising me with a girdle many years ago. Granted, it was a non descript llpg but it showed some acceptance. She accepted underwear from the waist down, panties, girdle, nylon stockings and or pantyhose. I try very hard to be a good husband and father but lately Ive been walking on egg shells. She has some other issues going on unrelated to me.
Hmmm, I don't know all of the details but based on that I'd agree. Best to tread lightly for sure. My SO and I have gone through some rough patches and at one point she thought I was having an affair and when found out it was just me needing to deal with the pink fog she was actually ecstatic...we've been together 30 yrs and in that time come to realize there are a LOT worse things in life, a LOT worse...this ain't no big thing! 😉
Hi Sheri, I can empathize from where you come as I have been there myself. this thing we have, "the pink fog, crossdressing and anything in between" is a tough issue for us and for the ones "on the outside". It's easy to say just be cool and "chill" for the time being but that's what has to be done right now. From what I read of your problem it appears that the wife has other issues here. Maybe, and I just say maybe when she calms down the both of you can discuss this. GOOD LUCK!!!!
Molly
Sheri, people who love someone never use these words. Never. Expression of shock and fear are natural but not this. There is more going on, not only with her but your relationship in general. Please offer to see a therapist together.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
If other things are going on with her this may have been the trigger.
The walking on egg shells thing makes me think you have some shame of dressing.
This is just me but I would get it out in the open and ask her what the hell is going on with you? Make her explain herself.
This marriage isn't just about her you know.
I really don't know why you guys let your wives walk all over you.
Sheri,
Been there and done that, and had some harsh comments, just be patient the dust will settle.
All these comments hurt but it still can't change what drives your CDing, you have to find ways to believe in yourself so any shame and guilt eventually goes. We are wired differently and nothing will change that, you have to show you are still a husband .
I never thought i would ever make it out the door and attend social evenings but it can and does happen, but it's hasn't been easy and still isn't on occasions .
Kind of feels like a similar situation to mine but I told my wife that I CD and things fell apart.
If she is not a tolerant person then don't tolerate her. Life will get better once you find your own identity. Being in a relationship that is even a bit toxic erodes who YOU are as a person.
Now I feel like CDing is the best thing that happened to me because this is the biggest trump card to kick my wife out of my life. ;)
Else it would have been very difficult to drive her away. She is a parasitic, exploitative person who has been leeching on me for quite a few years.
sheri,
the makes me sick comment is something that i suppose that you have to translate from the context of your relationship, but i agree its not something i would want to hear my wife use to describe myself.....sounds like you have some mental hopscotch going on, surprising you with items to that type of comment. i know sometimes in the heat of an argument things get exchanged to punctuate meanings and get dicey. you say you "try to be a good father and husband", has something happened to dispute that, have you had a problem, why ? are their eggshells....hard to offer help when their are gaps of information.
kind of a general statement traci, when most here overcome and have a reveal we are advised to talk, take it slow, establish boundaries, keep the lines of communication open......myself i have been very fortunate in what ive accomplished these few years, but one thing that would break the rules would be something like leaving out a skirt, if she got upset would she be walking all over me ? she doesnt want to see "it".....and that would be part of "it"Quote:
I really don't know why you guys let your wives walk all over you.
Thanks for the support and advise. We have a good marriage, very close family. She has other things causing stress, issues not related to me. However, talking things over has never been a strong suit. I would love to get this all out in the open, but I'm afraid talking would make things worse.
Mikell my comment might be general but its a common thread in closet dressers and those in DADT relationships where the man has to hide what he does.
Would it not be better to get your wants and needs made apparent?
She will vocalize her wants and needs with no hesitation but men seem they don't have the same rights.
When I came out to my ex wife she said why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you voice your needs I would have preferred you did that.
I didn't tell her about being TG because I thought I was weird and it would pass plus I didn't know all that much about it back then either.
We get along great now and she asks about my girl side frequently.
Everyone is different and have different situations I understand that.
Sheri since you admit the talking is a weak point it may be time for some professional help as suggested, thats theyre strong point.....at this point would it make anything that much worse, at the very least a local support meeting perhaps....i go to one myself but i go to one that is not close as to put my wife at ease about running into folks that she may know.
traci when closted and started out DADT.....which i despised but accepted thanking everyday she was still at my side when falling asleep each night, i imagined quite a different ending....i hope by now you know i always go against the one size fits all think, i also shared the "weird and it would pass" test and was uneducated about myself also.
our wives and girlfriends will also have varied attitudes about the phenomena when shared.
perhaps she gets along great about it because its no longer her reality ?? but its nice to hear that you still get along either way.
So what happened for her to change her mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
You don't describe your situation in detail but I can tell you that it is not uncommon for GGs to be accepting until they determine that the Cding isn't what they thought it was. For example, a wife may think it is just a harmless preference for clothes, but then discover that it is sexual for her husband. Or, she can believe that he can take it or leave it (something like a hobby), but discovers that wearing women's clothes is a much bigger priority that occupies most of his thoughts and that indicates his life is not in balance. Or, a wife can be OK with it until the husband pushes it further and starts to wear women's clothes in front of others in male mode, which has the potential to cause gossip and impact their social life. Or, the wife can discover that the husband has done things behind her back or has not been forthright with the extent of his CDing and the dishonesty of it all causes her to question her husband's priorities. I can't list all the different ways that can turn a wife off and I don't know how well the two of you communicate to determine fundamental issues over more superficial ones like just finding a skirt.
So if you don't know what happened to cause your wife to no longer be supportive, I suggest you find out?
For some reason I take strong exception to that. Men have all the rights they need -- they just don't exercise them. Men are totally free to express their wants and needs -- they may have been taught to not express their desires; they may have been taught to "take it like a man" when they're unhappy -- but they have the right to vocalize. And perhaps they have a responsibility to vocalize if they want to improve a situation they find unsatisfactory. Unexpressed needs land you in front of the marriage counsellor (or judge) faster than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
I think I could better understand her saying that, if this was the first she knew about your dressing. But, you mention that she knew from before. So, my thoughts are that there is something else she's trying to deal with, and your dressing has just become the scapegoat for whatever it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
When my wife caught me packing a couple of bras in my suitcase, she left for the rest of the day. When she came home, she told me to find a therapist and "get fixed".
I did see a therapist (actually several) and got fixed, but not in the way she intended. I came to accept myself as I am, and found a large group of friends with a similar "hobby". Now, I think she needs to get fixed, by that I mean she needs to develop some level of acceptance.
Great point Tracii! I know YMMV but let's face it, if you're in the closet, serve your 'role', and you're not cheating in any way what the hell is the problem? I like flying model air planes on weekends, so they happen to be pink, is that a problem 😡 My SO has absolutely NO interest in model airplanes, thinks they're 'silly' (read: DADT) but if they keep me sane and serving 'the role', he'll yah, fly model airplanes all you want hon 😀Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
I know, easy to say, I get it, but it's true!
U may be married, but u don't have a healthy or equal relationship. See an experienced, qualified therapist with or without your SO. ASAP! To find out why u 2 r having problems!:sad:
Only have known you for about 4 months, I am glad you have been able to enjoy yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sometimes Steffi
Taking you at your word, you have a good marriage. Some work best by discussing and some work best by waiting for a low stress time. There was an old idea that all aspects of a partner could be described as 1-good and not changing, 2- varies according to mood and circumstances, and 3- not good and not changing. The point was 1 and 3 do not change and if living in a relationship with that person, it is unrealistic to expect them to change. It sounds like you are in stage 2. These areas are described as totally 100%. So in low stress times, 1 would be 40%, 2 would be 10% and 3 would be 50%, but is high stress times, 1 would be 30%, 2 would be 1% and 3 would be the remainder. So under low stress, skirt is in the middle, not good or bad, but ok.However under high stress, shirt is not good.
Choices are to try to discuss at a time when stress would allow for slight flexibility, or wait for lower stress when more understanding is possible.
Points: a) don't have to discuss now even though many on this forum would see that as the solution, and b) partner's thoughts/feelings about CD are not fixed but change and need to roll with the changes.
Best wishes
I purged yesterday. Threw out a lot of clothes, some that needed to go, others that I would have liked to keep.
Did something else happen to lead to the dreaded purge?
Traci,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
It's because it would be just as wrong to impose the opposite view, a take it or leave approach. Marriage has to be a 2 way street agreed. However negotiations take time as does people getting used to a whole new dynamic within the marriage. Not everyone values their CD'ing above all that they've invested into a long term relationship.
"This marriage isn't just about YOU you know."
Getting rid of a part of your wardrobe that does not represent your current size or taste/preference is one thing. It is another to purge thinking this will placate your wife. I've been in a DADT for three decades. My wife does not want to discuss the issue. It is really DADT. There are no comments. There are no barbs thrown my way. What has happened is my wardrobe has expanded. Sure, I would really like it to be more out in the open, but, that is not going to happen. So, what will happen if she stumbles upon my vast wardrobe. I mean vast, as in over eighteen Zerox boxes of stuff. I totally accept myself. To purge at her request or demand is nothing short of purging an integral part of myself. I respect her desire to have no part of Stephanie, but, that will not translate into discarding that important part of myself.
Sheri, I think you may need to force the issue. The clothes may end up at Goodwill, but, she'll always remember and how she sees you will never really be the same.
Sheri,
I'm not sure if purging is the right thing to do, it's an acceptance that your CDing is wrong and you may be cured if you have no clothes to wear !
I have to agree with Stephanie on this one the clothes satisfy the needs of the female part of me, they help bring that part of me to life, I can go out the door and be Teresa.
Sherri's wife's reaction is still a very common one of many members here. I know we like to say DON'T PURGE! but the reality is that new clothes can be bought. Expensive to purge yes, but for the immediate situation going on, don't beat Sherri up too much for this.
Something hit a crossroads between Sherri's wife and Sherri. The best thing to do is let the dust settle, then maybe add in some conversation about how both of them are feeling. The words do hurt Sherri, I can relate. Early on (a few weeks) after my reveal to my wife, she called me a F-ing freak. For that I did stand up and told her I would not take being called that. I sort of put it to her that if what I do is really that bad, maybe she should leave. She quickly apologized, literally within minutes after she had said it. Still though, those kinds of words can be devastating. I have made miles of progress with my wife, but there is still a lot of stuff about CDing I just don't go to with her, or talk about. You love who you love, I fell in love with a woman who was partially raised on a dairy farm, and an old fashioned one at that. Very conservative, very christian. To think I am still married and as of last night, still highly engaged in future life plans does say something. Take a breather, in time, things can settle down and some feelings will come out. It may not all be very pleasant, in fact it probably shouldn't be. Sometimes we have to hit the reset button. It takes time for the reboot.
I don't know of a single person (and I include myself as well) that did NOT regret throwing out their feminine clothing at some point in their lives. As others have said, it's different if it's stuff you no longer wear or want to wear, or it doesn't fit anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
However, it's a reaction out of guilt in most cases. Crossdressing for most of us isn't something we can usually turn on and off....although there's often periods of abstinence, and much later, comes a period of Pink Fog recurrence as thick as pea soup. You can't be who others want you to be. You have to be who YOU are. It simply doesn't go away when it becomes inconvenient.
i would have to agree with others...purging clears the mind and soul for only a few minutes....but your closet forever...
it feels good at the time, but not beneficial in the long run
Gosh, why is everyone focusing on the purging here. Sheri didn't get rid of everything and Sheri will buy more. The biggest issue is their marriage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
Sorry you had to purge.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
I hope you won't mind but I took the liberty of reading some of your past posts. I also hope you won't mind my candor, but the situation between you and your wife is such a mess that any suggestion to do things differently than you've done in the past can't make anything worse.
Reading through some of your posts I noticed that you have a lot of female clothes, some obviously feminine like all your skirts and some not so obvious that you were hoping your wife would not notice were women's clothes. You also do dress frequently because you travel on business and you also have the chance to shop and dress in your home town. On a few occasions you've been "busted" with tan lines, or running into a friend who hugged you while you were wearing a bra, or wearing women's capris at home when a neighbor noticed and asked you outright if they were women's capris. On those occasions, your wife didn't say a word and you were hoping this meant that she was headed towards acceptance (no, she wasn't). Also, since you have so many clothes, do you think that your wife might not have noticed those as well.
Yet above, you say that you're afraid to have the conversation with your wife so I assume the CDing at this point is a huge white elephant in your marriage that has never been discussed properly.
I do want to point out there is nothing more harmful to any relationship than issues that are not discussed. This causes each partner to fill in the blanks by themselves (for example you imagine what your wife's reaction might be if you tell all, and your wife imagines God knows what about the CDing). So these "unspoken" things cause a rift that deepens until an incident happens like finding your skirt this week, and then everything explodes, causing you to purge. I'm guessing you are purging not because you intend on stopping to crossdress, but you rather want to make a show to your wife that you're getting rid of all your clothes. This is not a good way to handle it because it will serve to reinforce to your wife that you agree that you should not be CDing. Still, you didn't get rid of all of it, and you likely will get more, and so the situation will repeat itself the next time that your wife finds an article of clothing. And each time the situation repeats itself, more trust is eroded on her part which has the potential to make her even less tolerant of the CDing than before.
Do you see what I'm getting at? I suspect there has been a pattern of having you CD more than she thought you were, then getting "caught", then you make promises that you do not intend to keep and you continue to do things behind her back, then you get caught again, etc, etc, etc. This is NOT the way to get a wife to accept.
The two of you do need to sit down and talk about this. In depth. And this means having you tell her why you need to crossdress, how it makes you feel, when it started, why you cannot stop, in addition to telling her what your ultimate goals are (you do not plan on transitioning, you are not interested in having your employer and other people know, it is not sexual for you [I assume], etc), in addition to telling her that you cannot keep doing this behind her back because if you continue at this rate your marriage will become eroded beyond repair. So now is the time for the two of you to set some boundaries that you fully intend on keeping and strike a bargain. This means a compromise: she cannot have it all her way with no CDing, and you cannot have it all your way (with whatever might be a deal-breaker for your wife, for example wearing girlie clothes in front of your friends).
But, judging by your posts, it looks as if the two of you aren't good at talking? Does this apply to just the CDing or everything else in your life. If you've maintained a no-communication/no-compromise pattern and instead have engaged in patterns of doing what you want behind each other's backs all of your married lives, you are correct to believe that starting to communicate and compromise with the issue of CDing will be very difficult.
And so I think the two of you need to either get self-help books on how to improve marriages through better communication and compromise, or seek help with a counselor.
What do you think of this plan.
I think this speaks to the topic, take it in context of course!
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...-seen-a-She-he
Sherri, Am I missing something. You said "She accepted underwear from the waist down, panties, girdle, nylon stockings and or pantyhose." Is a skirt so much more offensive to her than stockings and pantyhose?
Is it upsetting because a skirt becomes outward dress and presenting instead of simply under dressing?
You all will have to work that out on your own. On the forum, we can only encourage and support. We can't really coach because we don't know your relationship.
Best of luck to you, I hope you guys can move forward in a relationship. Especially if children are involved.
Reine, you are probably right. Lena, I think the skirt confirmed to her that I am a crossdressers. Underwear is underwear, the skirt crossed the line.
A long time ago when Ann Landers gave advise she answered a marital problem this way. She said when a marriage reaches a point that their is no way to fix the problems, one must ask themselves, would my life be better off with her or without her ?
If you can't do like Reine says and the wife is not willing to give any, then you may need to ask yourself that question.
The very best to you,
Amy
Sheri,
If I might ask the question why was acceptable at one time to do underwear but not a skirt, I assume she accepted you underdressing as long as she didn't see the evidence ?
Also was dressing the top half always totally out of the question with her or didn't you find the need to do it ? I will admit I have a mental block about buying forms, for some reason I feel it's a step too far. I have no idea what thoughts my wife has about me wearing a bra and what I choose to form a bust, I just feel she would prefer it that I hadn't spent money on them, as for totally formed breasts with nipples it could be way over the top for her to accept them.
sad thing is that most women wear pants. pants were a male garment. they went through hell to get to wear them without being frowned upon. I think women forget that stuff. they have no right to be upset over s male in a skirt in my opinion
Charlessa, when the majority of men fight as hard as women did to wear skirts and this results in a near 100% adoption of men wearing skirts (like women who wear pants), then I don't think you'll find any wife getting upset if her husband also wears skirts. :D
Every person has a right to feel how they feel. If you want to change how they feel you have to do something about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlessa
It should be noted that women in the US fought hard from 1880 to at least 1945 to get to "wear a male garment" and then had to re-fight it constantly through the 50's and 60's to nail that down. Our fight is young in comparison.
Thanks for all of your suggestions, comments, etc. It helps to read them. Life is mostly back to normal now although there is a cool atmosphere in our house at times. Nothing more has been said about the skirt. I am still wearing panties vs male tighty whities and although she would prefer that I change, I don't think I can. I did get rid of the pink and red and lace underwear to try to meet her half way. I guess life is good.
I wouldn't say never, but Contempt is the biggest marker for predicting relationship failure. Gottman's research (experiment, not unsubstantiated psychobabble) shows that it is the ratio of positive to negative interactions that matters most and that contempt is the most toxic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
http://simplemarriage.net/how-to-spo...riage-killers/
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
I have to question your definition of a "good marriage" here. She has gone from being tolerant to abusive. You can't talk about things so issues build until she can't hold her anger back or you purge to resolve what you think might be the problem, but aren't really sure. You are walking on eggshells, evidently expecting her to lash out again. That doesn't sound like a good and healthy marriage to me, rather, it sounds like one that has been fraying at the edges for quite a while and needs some work. You have the issue of crossdressing but her issues seem to be ones that are creating both emotional and physical stress, and that is a health issue that shouldn't be ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheriM
I'm sure there is love underlying the relationship but it sounds like inertia has taken over. Did you used to be able to talk over things? You know she has other issues unrelated to you, but do you know what they are and does she trust you to offer advise that might help her resolve those issues? Others have said, and I agree, you need to talk. Preferably with a professional counselor since there is so much tension in the relationship now. If you believe it is a good marriage, it is worth saving and rebuilding the love and trust it was founded on.
SheriM, Communication is the most important thing to keep a relationship in order. If you say you have a good marriage and that other issues are bothering her and you do not know them. Gee I could think of some of those things. As I said communication is the most important item in a relationship. Sit down and talk to her about everything including all of her items before you lose this marriage.
Purging won't save a marriage. It might put the end of the marriage off for a bit but so or later somebody is going to buy some more clothes and hide them. Then if the wife finds them all heck will break lose once again. Best to get what is the problem out and talk about it.
You are a cross dresser. Purging will not change that. You and your wife need to have a deep conversation about your cross dressing and what you expect from the relationship. Get information either through books, articles and if possible find a good counsellor to help you through the discussion.
What you have described is just sweeping the problem under the rug. That is not a solution. Both of you need to find an enjoyable life together if at all possible and it will not just happen of its own volition.
I know this is very hard for you both and I wish you every success.