my body tells me

I'd be interested in other late-onset thoughts on this. I discovered really late (54) my gender ID, but it makes sense of my life in a way I'd never have realised before. It was my body telling me all that time, and even now, that my mind would not let even the smallest thought through.

My body would sabotage male activities - pulled muscles, eyesight, sickness being lifelong examples. Every fitness and strength activity would fail and fall off for these reasons. Then there is the simple act of shaving, something i always detested. The male razors clog up with bristles and I get cut, but the female razors stay clean and don't cut me. My old clumsiness with male clothes contrasted with my new delicacy with female clothes. My skin loves the female clothing and detested the touch of the male clothing. I had chronic fatigue and subtle depression as a male, and none of this now female.

Even my car choice, turns out it's a woman's car; the footrest by the clutch is perfect fit for heels/wedges but not for male shoes. My feet prefer the female sandals/shoes/heels. The podiatrist recommended heels for my ankles' benefit. I could go on, but you get the point. The question is whether other late-onset TS also found the feminine deeply repressed, to the extent that only body signals or something similar left any hint to see the truth?

It's deeply unconscious because of lifelong conflict with my sister. It made me make myself appear more masculine/boy-like as a child to contrast/be different to her. I was rejecting what actually, deeply within, is what I most strongly desired. Finally, now I do have peace with my sister, and acceptance from both of them for me as a new sister to them.

xxx Pam

I can't relate to that at all.
A male razor and female razor are pretty much the same just different colours, although a male razor is designed for male beard growth so I can't see how it could be less efficient than the female version?

Are you saying that until 54 you had no mental issues living as a man at all and your only clue was an aversion to using masculine associated things?

Being totally honest the things you mention have no relevance to my life if anything I'm less inclined to be feminine now, rarely wear heels. When I think of female clothes I think of what suits me and the cut never the feel of the fabric. My car is a car I can't imagine how it could be gendered? Thinking about it it's probably primarily designed for men purely going by the pedal to wheel ratio but like every car I have ever driven you just adapt to use it.

In contrast I was very good at sports and healthy from a physical aspect but I failed from a complete lack of confidence and couldn't bond for teamsports. If anything my health is the worse it's been and that's just because of all the meddling with my hormones.

I wonder if you need to spend a little more time reevaluating what is male and what is female (and if that's even relevant), rather than what is masculine and what is feminine.
For example what is a male activity? Women play rugby and football. What is a male shoe? Women also wear brogues and typically drive in flats.

It's curious the way you have associated your gender identity.
I'm interested to see if anyone else shares your perspective.

Pamela,

Like Becky I cannot relate to it either. I had no issues with sports, and was fairly successful in one of the worlds most physically demanding sports almost turning professional. Like Becky I had an issue bonding with other people in "team" sports like soccer and hockey but was good at the game itself. I thrived in solo sports. I'm not sure how a body can "sabotage" any attempts at male activities, pulled muscles is a result of overexertion or lack of preparation for the activity. Eyesight is a genetic issue that effects everyone in this world. Look at how many of our members here and in the world have been or still are active military and they don't have problems with physical activities..

Cars are not male or female, they are cars. They were not designed for the perfect spot to put your wedge or heels but not allow a male shoe...

There are many cis people that detest shaving. Lots of men hate shaving just as much as women hate shaving.

Megan

I am of the thought that there aren't make and female activities in general. There are social constructs of what males and females may do. So my question is, what are you looking for in this thought exercise? A sign that your body was trying to push you towards the feminine items? I would rather think that we let our real selves out. You might associate these things with male/female, but you really just need to be you, no matter what that means. Trying to say your body did these things may be a little bit of a rationalization where in fact, you are just getting comfortable with who you feel you are on the inside.

Interesting concept...

I am more comfortable in women's clothes, cuz, well, I'm a woman. I do (or plan to do once I'm cleared) previous activities and hobbies, not male or female activities, just activities that I enjoy. Like Becky, I go for clothes that suit me, and that usually means colour and cut. Dresses or jeans, heels or flats, doesn't matter, I like them all. as for cars, my cars are my cars. Although, I will say, that I find it easier to drive one of my cars with heels on, as a lot of supercars have petals that are close together, as my feet aren't really big, it is much easier in pointed toe shoes. Maybe that is just me??

Pam, I think you are seeing some things that aren't there. Even from a purely non-trans perspective, there's barely any difference in men's razors and women's razors, if at all. And there's certainly no such thing as a "woman's car" or "man's car" in the way that the pedals are designed. As for the feel of fabric - both men and women wear mostly cotton clothing so I don't follow you there either.

I will say this though - my friends who are late-onset transitioners (older than 50) tend to lean more towards the feminine in choice of clothing. They tend to wear more girly shoes and clothes, wear skirts more often, etc. Maybe they are making up for lost time. Or maybe they have such an aversion to typically male clothing due to having had to wear it for many more decades.

Mirya
I think it maybe related to the fashion when they grew up.

oh, that makes sense Becky! I'm a jeans and t-shirt kind of girl... and I guess that's what girls wore during my college days! Although they wore flare jeans - and despite what fashion blogs say these days, I don't think they're making [another] comeback.

Hi Pamela!!!

I hope all is well

I also came to the game past the half century mark but don't relate too much to most of the observations... I did however feel in some ways my body had feminine aspects to it in terms of my build etc... My upper body was never that developed except when I was doing ALOT of surfing...(an excellent pursuit to put GD out of mind at the time!) the only team sport I ever did was about 6 years of ice hockey growing up... Go North Hollywood Bruins!!!!... But I avoided team sports after that... I felt uncomfortable and always out of place trying to bond in male groups... In High School when the others were playing baseball, football etc ... I requested to just do running around the track

There was a brief time very early in transition when, I believe like most?... I overcompensated a bit on the femme stuff... clothes etc but quickly settled into everyday looks a bit more comfort based!!! I wear heels maybe twice a year...

Take Care!!!

Ashley :)

absolutely Sue, just being me is where it's at.

I did forget to mention the core body signal was chronic testicular pain.

I was wondering as to the differences between "lifelong trans" and "late onset trans"; more curiosity than anything else, like "how else did you hide your true nature from yourself, and how did you eventually realise?"

Yes to fashion Becky, and yes to making up from years of lost time Mirya. And both these effects are settling down after a year or so. My hair is now nearly as long as 17 yrs old, but then i wore denims, whereas I'm more drawn to earlier 70's hippy style. It's taken this long to work out my style, but effectively large/tall lady (giantess almost) will do. :-)

The sports I was fine with until the adolescence kicked in, then I lost touch with the other sporting boys most the time. I would be very frustrated by the lack of cooperative teamplay of the boys (and men) compared to the female teams I observed, and played with when we mixed hockey boys/girls.

Hi Pamela --

I think there's a tendency toward revisionism when we look back over our lives looking for signs and portents that we are On The Right Track. When I hang out with motorcyclists, I often hear them recount events in their lives that foretold their involvement with motorcycles. Pilots, photographers, software engineers -- they all do the same; they look into their past for predictions of their present because it reassures them that it's OK to be where they are. I think it's a pretty human behavior but in the end it's like looking for patterns in the clouds. You'll find 'em if you want to.

Maybe it would be helpful to look at it backwards -- would you tell anyone who is not good at team sports or has chronic testicular pain that they are certainly transgender? Probably not, right? I mean you might weight it in as some very low percentage addition to the the chance they were transgender, but I can't imagine suggesting it's a reliable predictor.

You're right Jennie that we look for affirmation in the past, and that logically such associations would be rare. One difference is that I am operating with the benefit of a complete theory of the self and group, and i know my particular life circumstance did not leave many options for my unconscious to tell me this particular biggie.

I'm not sure what I said in my OP to invite suggestions for processing, what I did ask was for other late-transitioners to say how they realised so late - and by corollary how they did not know before.

xxx Pam

Quote:

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The question is whether other late-onset TS also found the feminine deeply repressed, to the extent that only body signals or something similar left any hint to see the truth?

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I'm not really sure what the definition of the late onset is that you are using?

I always felt very wrong about my being male , boy, man. I was very tormented by it and thought I was a very sick person for the way I felt.
It came out in all sorts of ways - from getting into girls stuff to hitting and screaming at myself. No hints from what cars I bought, razors I used, or hints my body was giving me.
It took me a long time to accept who I was, because I was so afraid of what would happen if people knew about me. Its was accidently outing myself the that broke me out of the prison.

I still use guy razors, kinda weird I guess.

Hydro 5 all the way

It's good to see other gals recognize this for what it was; Good old fashioned rationalization.

I don't believe in a spectrum of transgender people but I certainly believe there's a spectrum of transitioners. Some were masculine men, some were femmy men, some were special forces, some were dancers, some were drag queens.

I may have been a fake dude, but I was a damn good one.

The whole damned thing gets real, real, once your on an HRT regimen. I have to say that my perspective prior to HRT was completely different than it is now. Don't really care what I'm wearing anymore, they're just clothes. I find it very interesting that I am mellower, happier and more at peace. But I am also finding that I had some sort of fetishistic relationship with the affectations of female life. Couldn't seem to care less now. I think that maybe it's the moment of truth for many people. The loss of libido and the entire change in perspective really makes you think. I suspect it's why some get on the juice and then can't get off fast enough finally understanding that they are in fact, just a highly fetishistic CD, and others obviously discover their true selves. But there is simply no way to share with someone who's not taking them just what a profound effect it has on your whole perspective and psyche. I think Pam will find a lot of her accepted ideals will morph and change once she gets on the HRT. Mine sure have and it's been a real trip. It's been very interesting to experience what I thought as being concrete, melting away now.

i can't argue with that, only the hrt can tell.

Since you were looking for late in life transitioners I thought I would jump in. Unlike many that I have read not just in this thread but in many other posts I never fought my GD feelings, I just hid them. My GD didn't make me feel bad about myself I just figured it was who I was. A big realization for me in the past month though was thanks to BadTranny pointing out that the first transphobe you have to deal with is yourself. Since I am still uncomfortable in public - my therapist is rightly pushing me on that and I am glad - but since I am still uncomfortable obviously I feel that it is something to be ashamed of but I think I am on the right track.

For me I finally just decided this is stupid, I only have so many years left. I have wanted to be a woman since I was a child and I may as well live it while I still can. I always thought I am too tall too masculine etc more excuses. I wish I had not wasted all of those years. So my late transition was just the opposite of yours, I knew all along I just was too much of a chicken, well I am done with that. It is my life and I am going to live it while I still can.

That said, I couldn't relate at all to your experiences - I will not rehash them but it felt foreign to me, but I am learning that none of us can get in someone else's head. If that was your experience then it is just as legit as anyone else's. And if it has provided you more insight then your introspection is on the mark.

Hi Pam,

I can't say I relate either. I was always active as a young dude, baseball, hockey (okay . . . not very good at these things but still enjoyed them). That only increased when I joined the military and fitness became a requirement and then a lifestyle, played rugby, got into sky diving and the list goes on. However, while I was very team oriented I never really connected with men. Oh, I could play the fake "see the game last night" chit chat but there was no deep bond where I felt I truly belonged. It all felt kind of contrived and fake. Funny thing is that once I let "him" go and allowed "her" to be, I have a deeper bond with all my friends male and female. I don't get "men" any better then I did but then again who really gets anyone (unless you are a mind reader). I can say I find more common ground in discussion with women then I do with men.

Clothes, cars and other trappings . . . they are what they are. I wear clothes appropriate for the occasion. If I am in a professional setting I am more likely to dress professionally, if I am just hanging . . . comfy clothes and the current heat . . . shorts and a top.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jentay1367

The whole damned thing gets real, real, once your on an HRT regimen. I have to say that my perspective prior to HRT was completely different than it is now. Don't really care what I'm wearing anymore, they're just clothes. I find it very interesting that I am mellower, happier and more at peace. But I am also finding that I had some sort of fetishistic relationship with the affectations of female life. Couldn't seem to care less now. I think that maybe it's the moment of truth for many people. The loss of libido and the entire change in perspective really makes you think. I suspect it's why some get on the juice and then can't get off fast enough finally understanding that they are in fact, just a highly fetishistic CD, and others obviously discover their true selves. But there is simply no way to share with someone who's not taking them just what a profound effect it has on your whole perspective and psyche. I think Pam will find a lot of her accepted ideals will morph and change once she gets on the HRT. Mine sure have and it's been a real trip. It's been very interesting to experience what I thought as being concrete, melting away now.

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Jentay,

I have no frame of reference for what HRT would do for me and I can only understand from what I have read here from others. I have actively chosen not to undergo HRT (my decision and I owe nobody an explanation) but things are very real for me so I am not sure what you refer to. I don't consider myself a fetishistic CDer and even without HRT clothes are clothes, activities are activities and being at peace with being me is what it is to be me. Being who I need to be is more important to me (note folks I said "to me"). Would HRT give me profound psyche shift? Can't say and never will know. However, I do take exception when people imply irrespective of the intent, that somehow people like myself will never know what it truly means to be trans because we are not in the HRT club. I live my life authentically as a woman, I am comfortable in my skin . . . for me (again folks . . . I said me) HRT would not improve that to any extent.

Cheers

Marcelle

Yes Marcelle,

I can't say how hrt will affect me, as for one thing I'm already a fully emotionally-associated human being. But I can say, that like Marcelle, I know who I am.

To all; I didn't say I didn't like the sports, i played them every daylight hour outside of school and work. Self-destruction has its origins and evidences. Work hard, play hard, drink hard life. Got the t-shirt. I still do, and always will do, the heavy stuff around the house. I'm learning to hit the nail gently with the hammer - and getting less crushed thumbs as a result.

I may as well play the heretic out. I don't believe one has to suffer self-loathing and self-harming to be a real trans, and I don't believe one only starts feeling right after hormones, and I don't believe one has to be diagnosed with a mental illness to transition. I'll obviously feedback once I'm on them long enough to compare.

xxx ;-)

Hi Marcelle, I never wanted to imply that everyone who isn't on HRT is a CD. If that was what you took from that and I offended you or anyone else, I'm terribly, terribly sorry. I meant to say, rather that if you are CD, the hormones may be a big heads up and eye opener to those folks. Nothing wrong with being CD either if that's who you are, So please, anyone reading this that identifies that way, I don't want to offend you either. Hell....I don't want to offend anyone. It was just my observation of my own personal experience.
Testosterone had a profound effect on me and now that it's being blocked, I'm able to see just how profound and insidious it was

I can relate to you on everything you said

Marcelle, I find it incredibly charming that you still feel like you have to prove yourself.

Listen lady, HRT or not, you are OUT! You came out AT WORK and frankly you did it the hard way. If it comes to pass that we find out you're fibbing and you're just some dude in Des Moines then we will have a nice little chat, but until then you have been nothing but forthcoming and I haven't seen you post anything that is the least bit suspicious.

I got nothing but proper respect for you and it's time you start holding your head up around here. Coming out and living full time is not easy in the best of circumstances, and you did it in a place and in a way that I never could.

Anybody that comes for you just hasn't been paying attention.

What Badass just said.

It seems fair to say that people who are in any sense on the wrong track are likely to manifest symptoms of physical and mental disharmony, from pulled muscles to tripping over, nervous facial twitches, twitching limbs, drumming fingertips, etc.

Pamela has often mentioned former clumsiness and it's a perfect example of a person out of sync. I used to become clumsy around my dad, even into my thirties, and I know it was caused by feelings of tension in his presence.

I agree it seems unlikely that a razor could be intrinsically male or female-friendly, and perhaps Welshgirl might like to while away an idle 15 minutes conducting some tests on her blindfolded SO to put that one to rest, but I can well believe that a particular model of car might be more comfortable for a resting foot in heels-versus-brogues; perhaps she just needs a Tesla.

I can also believe that growing up with a sibling can cause us to modify our behaviour and it seems totally plausible to me that Pam's sister unknowingly caused (him) to act more butch than he might have otherwise. Another eg within my family unit was that I mimicked certain characteristics of my alpha-male uncle that were quite unhealthy, and which took me a number of decades to recognise and release. Imagine my surprise when I saw a pic of him aged about 55 (6'4" of ex-olympic athlete) crossdressed as a St Trinian's schoolgirl for a Hallowe'en party!

Above all if symptoms of habitual depression have receded, it's tempting to think becoming a more integrated, emotionally fulfilled person is likely to be the reason.

The scrotal pain disappearing seems deeply symbolic, or perhaps symbollock, but it could be pure coincidence. Not even Welshgirl can conduct an experiment to prove or disprove that.

That pain comes back now and then, like a reminder to get the job done, Nikki. ;-)
nervous finger drumming too huh?

No, but I have a close friend who makes floors and tables shake with his constantly twitching legs. Draw his attention to it and he stops...for about a minute.

How long till the op?

3-4 yrs probably

Holy crap. Well I guess it stops you rushing in, gladiator-style... I take it you've priced the private alternative?

Pamela, what a great feeling to have the best of you now working through old issues.Glad the car fits you like a perfect hig heel.

Kristy