Have You Ever Been Challenged in Public?

I have a week of "home alone" dressing coming up. I'm planning on a few places to go OUT. Don't know why the thought of going out and about dressed is so intriguing, but it is.

Let's assume you have a pretty good handle on your "look"; passing or near passing.
Has anyone ever approached you, in a store, shop, restaurant, bar etc., and asked The Question "Are you a woman or a man?" What happened then?
And has anyone actually hassled you (in public or in front of others) about dressing; maybe even threatened you?
I'm interested in what can or might happen engaged with The Public.
Talk to me girls.

Never has happened and I doubt it ever will.

I've been called stuff before. Probably the worst of it for me, really. And that was years & years ago. Not always fun, but I've been thru worse *non*-dressing stuff before, and I still survived.


There have been times where I temporarily passed with hetero guys -- until they realize after a while that they've been checking out a dude. Then they don't seem too happy with that, and it's best to ignore it & walk away, if you can. Because if you handle it wrong, I can see how it could escalate into something more serious.

(And I understand some here believe it's impossible for someone to pass. I beg to differ. A lot depends on the situation. If a GG is 3 feet away from you, at high-noon, and they're carrying on a conversation with you? Probably not. But if a clueless, half-drunk, horny hetero male is like 10 feet away from you in a darker environment? I think one could have better chances with that one, IMO.)

Yes to both questions.

I've been asked if I was a woman or man at coffee shop I went to one night. But it was by a curious woman in her 30s and she actually was asking because she was impressed by my look. She said there was something "off" about me but overall she was surprised at how a man could make himself look so feminine. So it was frightening at first but I was able to relax once she began to get positive.

But hassled... yes. I've told the story a lot on here. Day after New Year's Day in 2015. JC Penney was having a big post New Year's Sale. The weather was bad so the store was nearly empty that Friday Night. I went in dressed, carried about my business, tried things on, bought some things, and left the store. Apart from maybe half a dozen customers in the store, there was a group of about 20 teenagers hanging out in the store. Why, I have no idea. This was not a JC Penney attached to a mall, so why they hung out in a stand alone store on a Friday Night I'll never know.

Anyway... as I was leaving most of the teenager group was at the bottom of the escalator I was on, waiting for the 3 or 4 teens in the group on the escalator going down behind me. So the teens at the bottom of the escalator got a good, long look at me. I knew what was coming, because no way could someone look at me this long and not make the connection. As soon as I got to the bottom, one guy in the group yells out really loud so the whole floor could hear "THATS A MAN!!!!!". I was shocked and humiliated so my reaction was to just get to the parking lot and my car as quickly as possible. I walked as fast as I could and the pack of teens followed me, with several of them asking if I was a man. Thankfully the store was empty so it was really only the employees who were there to witness this. They followed me all the way up to my car, where I got in, started up my car and slammed on the gas.

What a nightmare. I'll be the first to admit I got lazy that night with my makeup and styling my wig, so I wasn't looking my best. But still, it was mortifying.

That's really only been my bad public experience. The only other thing that was somewhat hurtful was when I walked into a Target one time, and this young couple, older teens, both saw me, looked at each other, looked back at me, then looked at each other and laughed. I turned around and walked out.

Really the only problem group is teenagers. Especially if they are in groups. They have no social filter and no manners, no way of keeping their mouths shut. They will humiliate others in order to boost their status within their own group. You can't avoid them, but you can decrease your likelihood of running into them(I.e. don't go to places they congregate in groups, like a mall or movie theatre on a Friday Night). If you see a group of teenagers do your best to try and avoid them.

I've been complimented by women and approached by guys (rarely). In non-binary mode I was once asked if I preferred to be addressed as male or female. I've had a couple of scary encounters, but only a couple. There's little to worry about if you use common sense and choose appropriate venues.

I was asked once, "Are you a man or a woman?" I smiled and replied, "Why yes I am." The person who asked me looked a bit perplexed until he figured it out and had a good laugh.

Yes. Several years ago I was out and about and a youngish man came up to me with the "are you a man or a woman" question. My first answer was " Which one would you like me to be". This seemed to confuse him. I then told him that I was more man than he will ever be and I was more woman than he would ever get. I then walked away leaving him to stare at me.

jodi

I don't think I've ever been asked if I was a man or woman, but that's because I don't generally pass, so people don't usually have to ask. I've been harassed though.

The 3 "worst" things that I have ever experienced upon being "read" were as follows:

- being "sir"-ed by a female SA one time when I was out shopping en femme and paying for a dress that I had just tried on in the ladies' fitting room. And you know what happened? Nothing. Zip, zilch, nada.

I sincerely believe that no malice was intended here, nor was there a deliberate attempt at mis-gendering me by the SA. She seemed genuinely confused about which way to address me, tried to be professional and politically correct about it in her own way, and clearly hadn't had the ubiquitous sensitivity training that now seems to be de riguer when it comes to dealing with us transgender folk. Actually, the only bruising that occurred was to my ego, as I thought that I had done a particularly good job with my female presentation that day. Go figure! :eek: :doh:

- browsing amongst the racks in a shoe store and minding my own business when I noticed a 10-12 year-old girl surreptitiously checking me out from the other side of one of them and seeing her eyes get bigger and bigger as she began to connect the dots. She was with her mother, and I noticed soon afterwards a flurry of whispering taking place between the two, who were obviously discussing me and what to make of this vision. To her credit, Mom quickly shushed and shut down her demon seed, declined to make eye contact with me so as to avoid any awkwardness to all parties concerned, and we all continued to carry on business as usual after this brief encounter.

- one time in a women's restroom a young GG gave me the once-over as I approached the mirror to fix my make up and hair (wig), followed by a cheery "Hi!" My initial reaction was that she was just being super-friendly, but since that was a rather unusual occurrence from my past experience, it later dawned on me that maybe she had read me and tried to draw me out (male voice, perhaps?) to confirm her suspicions. I smiled back at her, replied in my best "femme" voice (never, ever, let them smell the fear ;) :heehee: ), and that seemed to settle that. She continued on with what she was doing - as did I - and no "incident" occurred as a result of this encounter.

On the plus side, I was walking down a downtown street one evening while wearing a particularly fetching outfit, and in the distance saw a group of men talking while loitering near a lamp post. As I approached closer, I noticed that they were actually standing across from a bar that they had obviously just ducked out of to have a smoke. Following my "don't let them smell the fear" credo here again, I boldly continued on and passed right in front of them (no pun intended - LOL). Of course, they all checked me out - the "click-clack" of stilettos on pavement will do that to a man ;). As I did this, one guy enthusiastically shouted out "Will you marry me?" as he looked me up and down with admiring eyes. I just smiled demurely, hoping with all my heart that this cat-call would not escalate into something more serious. Fortunately it didn't, and I took solace in the fact that alcohol was likely involved here, clouding both his perception of me as well as dampening any potentially more aggressive behavior. Still, a compliment is a compliment and clearly it was well-intentioned albeit somewhat misguided, but Hey! - I'll take it. :thumbsup: :heehee:

So, the moral of my "passing" story - at least from my experience so far - is that sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose, but I've never been "outed" nor treated with anything less than dignity and respect even when "read" by the muggles.

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I have been asked which are you male or female and I have answered "both" but thanks for asking and turned away or walked off.
None have been in a derogatory manner just curious people I guess.
It kind of hurts when you think you have done a great job in your presentation.
I have had a few not so nice confrontations with young guys that think they have figured out something earth shattering that a guy would wear womens clothes.
The last time I relayed the event here but essentially a guy followed me out of a 7-11 store and grabbed my shoulder and tagged him in his nose hard enough to send him to the ground.
A person saw the incident and called the police. so the guy was embarrassed a gay guy cleaned his clock but he got arrested in the process for assault.
The police lady thought it was kind of funny but she said he got what was coming to him.
She never challenged the fact I was a crossdresser and it didn't matter to her.
Her partner said I did the right thing and he had watched the store security camera tape and was pretty impressed that this little "lady" dropped the brute with one punch.
The police man was very professional and he used the proper pronouns but the policewoman seemed a bit uncomfortable at first but she did a very good job.
Anyway I did file charges and the guy got 90 days in lock up and 1 year in the prison for violating his parole.

I think my reply deserves some clarification.

The original premise is rather specific, are you a man or a woman? It goes on to bring up harassment or threatening behavior. To these I stand by my answer, no. However, some are writing about simply being read for who/what we are and in that case...yes, it happens often enough...I dare to say regularly. But other than the occasional sir (like what part of my presentation compels you to call me sir?!?!) or snicker, I don't count positive engagements by those who see me for who/what I am as being negative encounters as suggested in the OP.

I have been out a lot, to New York, San Francisco, Las Vegas, San Diego, São Paulo. I can pass at a distance. I go out mostly at night, where the lighting is not so great and that seems to help. I go to shopping areas, restaurants, bars, and clubs. When I started I only went to places that were LGBT friendly. These days I will go anywhere. For the most part people tend to ignore me or do not notice. Once I heard a tourist exclaim, "hey, that's a guy". I thought nothing of it and moved on. Another time I was in a multi story shopping mall. There was a girl in a kiosk, by the stairs, selling some cosmetics. Every time I passed by she yelled for me. Annoying. Recently I went out to a new area for me, the North Beach of San Francisco. This area has a lot of bars and clubs, and seems to attract out of towners. I got a strange look from the bartender and some of the clients. The clients were in golf shirts and jeans, looked like the type that spent Sunday watching football and drinking beer, not the usual SF crowd for me. However, most, 99% of my experiences have been great. Many times people approach me and I get into some really nice conversations. I have started to become a regular at some places and people welcome my presence. I really like going out.

Thanks for the story. Great stuff, and I'm glad you're safe at the end of the tale.
I find it disappointing that such things, as I imagined and you sadly endured, do indeed happen. It was kind of the point of my story.
I would hate to have a physical confrontation in heels. It would end badly for all.

Cool about the police lady, though

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A great learning story, Sara. Thank you very much.
The take-away I get is that fools will still yell out or call you out. Amazing, but perhaps I shouldn't be amazed.
I'm thinking of taking in a late movie on the first night out (with a quick drink at the adjoining martini bar). Maybe a daytime shopping trip to Macy's, Dillards & Nordstrom. I'm thinking of taking up morning walks in femme.

But, in a way I'd be mortified to have someone give me such an ignorant shout-out. I shall endeavor to make this first trip into The World in another ZIP code.
Thanks.

Never really had a problem being out and about. I know I've been read, either a long second look, a smile or giggle. Once I was walking into a diner and an older gent held the door for me and when I thanked him he said you're welcome sir. I laughed to myself but was also a bit disappointed in that I thought I looked especially good that day, Oh well

Most of the time, people don't challenge you, because most people are conflict-averse. It's like your parents used to say "They're more scared of you than you are of them!"

Typical stuff:
- People lock eyes with you as you're walking by. They notice, and their eyes get wide.
- A couple people nearby notice, and you see them turn to one another and whisper, then they do a 'double take' at you.
- You hear a couple people behind you gasp and get quiet. Then you hear them laugh. You look, and they're staring at you.
- You're paying for something, and the sales person looks you in the face, their eyes get wide, and suddenly they're trying to look at anything but in your eyes. They're trying to look like they're not staring, but unfortunately they're really conspicuous about it. I just try to smile sweetly to cut through the awkward.

It's all pretty harmless, but it tests your confidence.


I remember being openly intimidated once:

I was walking home after a party, downtown, pretty late at night. I wasn't worried because it was a busy part of town.

Two quite drunk homeless guys (they could barely walk and were pushing a shopping cart) stopped me on a street corner. One of them proceeds to tell me a joke:
"Hey, why don't men go into the women's bathroom?... Because it says 'Whoa - man'!"
Then he gave me a squinty-eyed sneer. The message was pretty clear.

All along, his friend keeps staring at me with a really intense smile on his face (google "Kubrick stare"). It sent shivers down my spine.

I just said something like "That's nice... I gotta go" and walked off.

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Originally Posted by laurababe

(And I understand some here believe it's impossible for someone to pass. I beg to differ. A lot depends on the situation. If a GG is 3 feet away from you, at high-noon, and they're carrying on a conversation with you? Probably not. But if a clueless, half-drunk, horny hetero male is like 10 feet away from you in a darker environment? I think one could have better chances with that one, IMO.)

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Id rather jump off the Space Needle than put myself in an environment where i was dressed in the presence of half drunk horny men

When I was young and I had long hair (I let it grow again but it is not as long as I had it) there were some times in which I was addressed as a woman even when I was not crossdressed, at that time I was strictly a closeted crossdresser. In one of those occasions, I was at a very busy street market, and I was dressed with a rocker/gothic look so I had eyeliner and I was even wearing black lipstick. I was walking with my girlfriend (now ex) and one girl passed net to us and said loudly, is that a man or a woman?!, I did not care, actually since I was in guy mode I took it as a compliment besides their intentions were obviously bad.

Before I started going out dressed in a regular basis, I sometimes grabbed some of my mother's stuff and dressed partially just to drive dressed like that and in some occasions to go to some places that I thought were empty to take a walk. I don't want to give many details but yeah, some people saw me dressed while driving or while walking. I was not completely dressed so it was pretty obvious that I was not a woman. I never received a bad comment but I received horrible stares and was really ashamed.

The first time that I went out fully dressed was to a metal concert in other city, it was awesome and I was not alone, actually a female friend who knew about my crossdressing gave me the idea and was my companion. During the concert, nothing happened, I am sure that I was unnoticed. However, when the concert "finished", there was a pause that lasted for about 10 minutes until the band came back to play a couple of additional songs. In that time, a girl who was next to us, noticed me. She did not say anything but she was looking at me completely surprised and I think also disgusted, but nothing happened.

When going out became a regular activity for me (it started like 6 months ago), the first two or three times I did it without a wig, my hair was short, and my makeup skills sucked. So it was obvious that I was a guy in a dress. Besides some surprised looks when some people saw me. Nothing happened, most of the people simply did not care, even when my appearance was clearly the one of a guy wearing women's clothes, I was never challenged. My makeup skills improved significantly after a couple of weeks and I finally purchased a wig. Since then, I think I became more and more passable. When sales people refer to me, they always do it using feminine nouns, with the exception of a specific person in one store, he calls me sir. I don't know if there is a mean purpose behind it but I do not care, and personally I do not think so because he always treats me well besides that.

Some men have approached me and had tried to hit on me, and no one has said anything about my gender, with the exception of the guy who wanted to take me to a motel to rape me last Sunday, which I am not sure if immediately noticed my gender, or if he did it after talking to me and after I told him that I had a girlfriend and I was not interested in men. Occasionally, some women give me long looks but most of them simply smile at me after I smile at them, I really like when girls look at me. Only three times I was sure that I was clocked. One of them was when I began to use a wig and began to improve in my appearance. It was late at night and I took the bus to my apartment, but that is the bus that the students normally use to go to the bars and return home. The bus was almost empty, excepting a group of two guys and one girl, they sat next to me and after some time, the girl which was completely drunk started to look at me, it lasted for five minutes. I just tried to ignore her. After that she talked in "secret" to her two friends and obviously told them about what she found. They quickly looked at me and then looked to each other and smiled. It was not a good experience, but again, I was not confronted and nothing happened. Actually I liked the fact that the girl did not clocked me immediately, and her two friends would never locked me by themselves. Also she was drunk, so her "hostile" reaction probably was motivated by the effect of alcohol, and finally, that was my first wig, it is a short one that does not fit me as good as the one that I use now, so maybe with my current wig, that event would never happen. The second time was one time that I was walking in the mall, a couple of middle age women passed next to me and began to look surprised at me, they talked to each other and looked at me again. However, I am not sure if the reason of that was because, I had an erection at that moment (yeah, sometimes I become too excited when dressed), and since I cannot tuck (I have a hydrocele) it is sometimes hard for me to hide my male things, so maybe it became noticeable enough when I walked next to them. Finally, the last time that something like that happened to me was in the church, I attended mass, and a young girl with her mother were sitting at a neighboring bench. I saw them looking at me smiling and then talking between them. It happened once during the whole ceremony, and I actually feel flattered since I like when women look at me, again, besides that, nothing happened. Sorry for the long post.

Can't say as I ever have been. Guess I'm not interesting enough. :)

Valery people that love metal music are some of the nicest people at concerts.
I have been to literally 100's of shows and have seen CDer's in the crowd and never have I seen any problems.
Its about the music and they don't care what you dress like. If you are into metal you are family.

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Originally Posted by dolovewell

Id rather jump off the Space Needle than put myself in an environment where i was dressed in the presence of half drunk horny men

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That's why I used to go clubbing always with a mixed group of several friends (males presenting as guys, GG's, TG's, etc.)

I also used to try to make it a point to sit next to one of my guy-friends.


Strange men are usually a bit intimidated approaching someone in that kind of situation.

Didn't always work (e.g., still got hit on in hetero bars sometimes), but overall it definitely helped protect me. :)

Maybe a couple of long looks, but never a word said. Granted, I stay out of North Carolina.

As anyone who has been here for awhile can tell you I've had my fair share of encounters, too many to list here, from loud obnoxious ones to kindly asking if I was transitioning. I don't go to venues where alcohol is being consumed in large quantities so I don't put myself in certain situations for other reasons than being outed or possibly harmed in any way. Funny how the gamut runs from the quite young to the elderly and is mostly female but some males usually in the company of their SO. Generally my outings are event free, yes there are the stares, the whispers and the moving away as if they could catch something but I take it all in stride and enjoy myself. I know when I leave the house that at a distance I may look the part but upon closer inspection there is no denying my physical gender although I try like heck to disguise it. Now all of this happens when I'm dressed to my full femme expression, but if in my more androgynous, feminine male form of dressing things are definitely different. Almost forgot about the flirtation event with a very nice gentleman, only one so far, but very strange for me.

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Originally Posted by Jesse Six

Typical stuff:
- People lock eyes with you as you're walking by. They notice, and their eyes get wide.
- A couple people nearby notice, and you see them turn to one another and whisper, then they do a 'double take' at you.
- You hear a couple people behind you gasp and get quiet. Then you hear them laugh. You look, and they're staring at you.
- You're paying for something, and the sales person looks you in the face, their eyes get wide, and suddenly they're trying to look at anything but in your eyes. They're trying to look like they're not staring, but unfortunately they're really conspicuous about it. I just try to smile sweetly to cut through the awkward.

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I can handle all of those easily except the last one. The first 3, are frequent and you become desensitized to them.

But the last one I always have a hard time with. I'd say half the time, the SAs and cashiers are friendly and not uncomfortable.

But the other half I feel like the SA or cashier, based on her body language, appears as if I am holding her at gunpoint and forcing her to empty the register. Where she is so uncomfortable she is stiff, tense, perhaps even slightly trembling, and doing all she can not to make eye contact with you, trying to go as fast as possible so she can get out of your sight. I always feel like a piece of garbage when this happens.

Ilene, I have been out many times. I do not pass for a genetic woman. No one has ever challenged me or said anything negative, ever. I am sure it will happen sometime, but I think there is a freedom in knowing that I am not fooling anyone. I am not glaring when I go out and always dress for my age, time, location and event. I am convinced that what makes for a positive experience is YOUR confidence that you belong.

Don't worry about the normals, they will notice you and they really do not care.

My favorite challenge was a few years back at the Fashion Mall in Las Vegas. A smart guy at a kiosk said "excuse me, sir!" as I walked by obviously hoping for a reaction. Amazing I walked by without instinctively reacting. Yay me! These guys are obviously used to seeing us at the mall, can pick us a mile away and are bored out of their skulls. After my initial shock I was mostly just amused. Hugs, Michelle

No, I've never been approached and asked a question like that.
People have a lot of nerve if they are either in a crowd or secure in their car, but on a face-to-face basis they will mutter to themselves, but rarely confront you.
The exception to this of course is kids. They have no qualms about it at all and young girls seem to have the most Chutzbah.

I've had two times I would consider a "challenge" to my appearance. The first time was in a mall a couple of years ago, a group of preteen boys asked me if I was a man. I ignored them and walked on. At the time I don't blame them, I had a beard shadow that would shame Fred Flintstone. It was late in my day and I saw it was becoming obvious thru the makeup.
Removing my beard didn't stop the second challenge. I was in a bakery on morning and my voice would just not get into a higher range. The teenage girl behind the counter figured me out and would loudly say 'sir' every chance she could. Luckily her boss saw the treatment I was getting and took action. I thanked the boss and walked on.

Never been asked the "are you a man or women" question. I have had the long scanning head to foot look from other women both younger (30ish) to older (late 50s to early 60s). I try to blend but far from 100% passable. Knock on wood I've never had a bad experience beyond to long probably knowing looks.

Jennifer,
I like that. "... there's a freedom in knowing I'm not fooling anyone." It sounds a lot like sheer Audacity. Love it.

Trust me, me too [not fooling anyone]. The one time I went on a "go out" adventure, ever and only, I didn't wear my wig or makeup (except lipstick).. I wore a headscarf (dress & heels). Sat down at a sidewalk cafe and had dinner but I was alone and the cafe and street mostly abandoned. My waitress was a saint.

I'm going on an experimental expedition in full dress. Going to do it safely and wisely. Your experience and information helps. Thanks. (Love your signature article link).

Decades ago on a Halloween night I dolled myself up in a black dress, hosiery, heels, wig and makeup with all the proper undergarments. I went into a Safeway and bought a bottle of Coke. A guy, who was buying beer and probably had too much to drink already, did some finger pointing and laughing. It was bothersome but I was not fearful. I figured if anything who ever saw me figured it was Halloween....."Oh well." The checker did not say anything at all. Another Halloween I tested the waters again at a Winchell's donut store and got a compliment. Since then I found I rather take strolls in the early evening in safe neighborhoods and forego any interaction with the public.

When i go out dressed, I usually try to go to some place I feel is secluded enough that I can avoid any encounters and just relax and enjoy the feeling of being out dressed for whatever period of time I am out there. usually i go to a park of some sort. The only encounter that I have ever had (other than the time I was pulled over but that's another post elsewhere) was a guy on a bike passing by us (my SO was with me) and saying 'good morning". no harm no foul obviously.

I am hoping to push things a bit further this year and had thought about trying to go to a mall due to the fact that halloween is on a monday and this mall is mostly deserted though showing signs of coming back to life. After reading this thread though I might scratch that idea off of my list because going out enfemme is about me exploring the world a bit dressed as a world and mostly relaxing. dealing with this sort of stuff really makes me rethink plans.

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

Don't worry about the normals, they will notice you and they really do not care.

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Could you explain to us, then, why all the negative hate-filled comments from readers of online mainstream news articles/stories on trans-people?


These people don't just exist in Internet-Land, you know... They are out & about with the rest of us, in everyday life.

I have never really had a problem out dressed except for two times, men that were acquaintances AND claimed to be straight got a little too grabby when drunk and I had to forcefully set them straight. I have never been asked if I was a man or a woman, because I think it's very obvious I'm a man but I have been asked, nicely, many questions about my clothing choice. I have been sir'ed and ma'am'ed by a SA all in the same sentence, thought that was funny.

I've not had anything said, but last time out I caught a bit of a glare from a rough looking sort with his family, in the shopping centre. You can see the odd giggle between people, but that doesn't harm me. That's as bad as it has been and I hope remains. I'm happy in myself and I think that confidence washes over onto would-be detractors.

Typical Tracii stuff here and really gave me a giggle. A great way of putting over a serious subject but with the comedic edge. :heehee:

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

I have been asked which are you male or female and I have answered "both" but thanks for asking and turned away or walked off.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

...so the guy was embarrassed a gay guy cleaned his clock...

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Becky - south London's premier T...possibly.

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Originally Posted by laurababe

Could you explain to us, then, why all the negative hate-filled comments from readers of online mainstream news articles/stories on trans-people?


These people don't just exist in Internet-Land, you know... They are out & about with the rest of us, in everyday life.

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Laura, Firstly, it's easy to bitch online so to compare that to face to face interaction is lunacy. Consider this: on any given DAY that I am out, I am in view by a thousand people, maybe more. I interact with a dozen. In any given YEAR, how many of these hate filled internet memes appear? The volume of real interaction without incident to anonymous bitching is like the mass of Everest to a grain of sand. It's insignificant.

Just read the statements in this thread! Of the thousands of normals who were in play, a handful at best said something.

There are always extremes. There are those who hate black people with equal fervor. You can dwell on the negative and use that as a crutch or live in the real world and know that nowhere is nirvana but everywhere is open.

Jennifer, I would add, that not only does the internet exaggerate the voices of those on the fringe (extremes) it also provides an anonymous place where people more freely express their opinions. In public, I believe most people (other than teens and very young adults) tend to not voice negatives towards us simply because that type of behavior is not socially acceptable. Many are every bit as embarrassed to be in the situation as a first-time out CD might be. I also believe most people tend to be non-confrontational. It's easy to bash someone when they're not around or on an internet forum, but when you're face to face it takes a special level of boldness to insult someone or demean them publicly. It's kind of like road rage. How many people do you see flying completely off the handle in their cars? They feel safe in there, no one can touch them or often times hear them. So that act the fool and get very aggressive. Now put those same people face to face on the street with the person they just hollered at or tried to cut off and suddenly the interaction is far tamer.

Now I admit, all of this is just theory for me. My only experiences being out and about have been on Halloween. The one reaction that even mimics anything being discussed here was the first time my wife and I went out with another couple to a bar on Halloween. I was dressed fairly provocatively and there were a couple guys at the bar who were checking me out. When we left, we ended up walking right past them and one of them blurted out "Holy shit that's a guy!" I kept walking, actually feeling pretty good that I was convincing enough from far away that these guys didn't figure it out until I walked nearer to them. Still no negative issues as a result, they probably had to scramble to reassemble their own manhood at that point and were more worried about that than messing with me.

People are cowards and hypocrites. I have seen a lot of hate against transpeople in Internet (and against many other people). However, in real life it really seems that nobody cares, the reason is that the people feels "safer" behind a computer screen so they can reveal more about themselves. Thus they can freely take aggressive postures in a virtual environment, when in real life they simply do not have the courage to reflect that. It is a good thing that people in real life is not as idiotic as they pretend to be in the Internet.

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Originally Posted by Heidi Stevens

The teenage girl behind the counter figured me out and would loudly say 'sir' every chance she could.

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I had a similar situation. I locked myself out of my car, cell phone included. I asked someone to loan me their phone and called AAA. When AAA arrived I was expecting a rough houser dude that would mock me. I felt fortunate when it was a late middle age Asian gentleman. However, he seemed to take pleasure in calling me by my full name, on the AAA card, every chance he could.

Many years ago I was staying at the Philbeach in London. it is a hotel that is frequented by cross dressers and friends. In those days in had a bar in the basement, a Thai restaurant on the main floor and bedrooms above. I was in the bar and decided to go and change into leather fetish clothing. As I came downstairs I was in full view of the restaurant and a group of young women giggled. Not harmful of threatening and I was dressed in full fetish style, so i am sure I raised a few eyebrows.
Back at the bar it was all fun. Haven't been there for years. I hope it is still going strongly. Perhaps some of our London members can comment.

To date, I’ve never had anyone flat out ask me if I was a man or a woman. I’ve never been hassled by anyone or threatened either. I am aware that if anyone gives me a second thought or glance, then they may indeed wonder or even know. I used to be more cognizant of lingering stares or being pointed out, and perhaps that still occurs. I’m just immune to that anymore. Any instance where I was interacting with someone, they absolutely know, but if it was uncomfortable with them, they didn’t show it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

Laura, Firstly, it's easy to bitch online so to compare that to face to face interaction is lunacy. Consider this: on any given DAY that I am out, I am in view by a thousand people, maybe more. I interact with a dozen. In any given YEAR, how many of these hate filled internet memes appear? The volume of real interaction without incident to anonymous bitching is like the mass of Everest to a grain of sand. It's insignificant.

Just read the statements in this thread! Of the thousands of normals who were in play, a handful at best said something.

There are always extremes. There are those who hate black people with equal fervor. You can dwell on the negative and use that as a crutch or live in the real world and know that nowhere is nirvana but everywhere is open.

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Yes, it is easy to bitch online. But does that mean these people don't actually hold these views in real-life, that it's just some act they're putting on? Bull. They *do* care -- stop pretending otherwise, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence out there. One could even argue that you're sounding like those who are in their own delusional fog, whom you apparently love to chide here from time to time. And yes, sometimes these are not anonymous internet comments -- unless you consider using their Facebook accounts to post them, as such?

Again, they *do* care.

Does that mean you'll hear about it to your face? Not typically. Believe it or not, there is actually some sort of semblance of law & society out there. But you aren't completely oblivious in your surroundings, either, I assume? Just because you don't hear it or see it at the time, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



The OP asked if anyone has ever been challenged/hassled/threatened. People are answering -- not simply "dwelling on the negative," but simply sharing some of their experiences, openly & honestly. Are some also holding back? Perhaps. I know I am, anyway, as to respect forum rules. And there's plenty enough that dictates that they are, indeed, sometimes on the receiving end of this kind of stuff. There's also plenty of the same elsewhere on this forum over the years. How is this some sort of crutch, again? :strugglin

And don't act like it's always entirely the CD'er's fault, as you've done elsewhere, that they simply weren't holding their head up high enough & their shoulders back as much as they could be. Please.



I'm happy you say it hasn't yet happened to you. But if & when does, that grain of sand may very well feel like Everest to you at that moment, and possibly even for a while afterwards.

You've heard of low-probability/high-impact occurrences, yes? Stuff can sometimes get a lot more serious than just some harmless name-calling or whatever. Just ask those who end up in the hospital -- or 6 feet under. But I guess you'll call that "insignificant," as well?


Anyway, enjoy your shopping trips to Nordstrom. ;)

I've never been challenged at such.
I imagine there's people that saw me in public and questioned themselves, but hey, it is what it is.
:)

I've only been out twice and I would hardly call it being out as I was away from my car for all of about five or ten minutes each time and not very far from it.
The first time was at a business area of office condominiums. I had put my makeup on in the car and tied a hijab around my neck and head, was covered with skinny jeans and long sleeve tunic type shirt. I was taking photos that I hoped to share here. I got honked at by a guy driving by but then a short few minutes later there was one guy who slowed down a lot and after passing me he turned around to get another look. Kinda freaked me out a little because I didn't know if I had been made or if he thought I really was a girl and he wanted to try something or if the hijab made him think to hurt me. Lucky for me I was inside a locked gated area and he kept on going down the road.

It happened again recently that I had a rare day off from work and again, makeup at the dashboard vanity. Being quite hot and humid here in southeast Texas, I opted for a pair short denim shorts, a cami and sandals. I got out to try some pics but I guess that outfit with a long wig and I don't know... I just felt like guys who were driving in the park "hovered" longer than would be normal. A couple of them drove by me two and three times despite me moving my car to another part of the park. Freaked me out.

I know it's not much and doesn't compare to others and what they've described but it was an unnerving feeling.

I have been going out since 2007, probably close to a thousand times, always interacting with complete strangers. I have never had a harsh comment made to my face, nor to my back as I walked by. I have heard a catcall a couple of times, whether because I was read as trans (maybe once) or just a woman passing by. I have been asked directly a few times if I was a real woman, or a man. Those questions came when I was interfacing with someone, which I do every time I am out, mostly strangers. I have also been doubted when I have told a rare few that I am not a GG, needing to show my drivers license as proof. All questions to me like that have been made in a civilized manner out of true curiosity. I personally love those questions because it gives me more incentive to talk with them.

Laura, Yes, shit can happen, in any mode. Just like riding an airplane, it can crash, but we still take one when we need to go long distances because we know the odds are way in our favor, while being in a car is actually more dangerous. When many of us recommend to hold your head high, act like you own the place, it is really just one other way to make it easier for all of us to go out and enjoy those special moments. If one walks around looking at he ground, behind their back or acting obviously nervous and uncomfortable where they are at, they will definitely attract more attention, attention that a lot here try to avoid. Do people talk behind our back? Of course they do, just as I may talk behind their backs if there is something about them that motivated me to make a comment or respond to a comment from whomever I am with. That is human nature, sometimes not at its finest.

It sounds like the OP is trying to get out more and has concerns. My recommendation is, if you want to go out, please do so. Pick your venue, your outfit and time of day that will make you most comfortable. Fear is understandable and can usually b e easily overcome, especially after a few times out. Always best to go with somebody who can help one's confidence when that confidence may be a little fragile. Good luck and enjoy.

My second time out, a cop stopped me late at night, was concerned why i had been walking trough the town, when almost everything was closed, and that my driving was nervous. He said nothing about my crossdressing. The nest day, i went to several towns, cities, stopping to walk around, and a couple of rednecks yelled at me as they drove by. later that day, got laughed at a a drive up window, later that day, a man with his family had a dead car battery , and my car was parked right next to his, and he waited and waited for me to stop walking and come to my car, then asked if I would give him a jump start. i said yes, and he then told his kids to not look!! The first wig i ever had, which i wore those times, was too short, and not fitting well . Oh, and yet another thing that day, some teenage girl screamed, OMG , from about 100 feet behind me, as i walked down a sidewalk. No other incidents. I only go out up to six or 10 times a year, though. I opened up about m being a Cd to a few cashiers, and they had to look for a bit, before they realized it, at first. Did a good job that night. I also realize we live in a very stressed out, difficult world, and people are many on edge today, and anything to set them off, when they are given chance, just might let some of their frustration vent. It is not easy to survive today financially, socially, fine affordable housing, deal with wall to wall people everywhere in an over populated, dangerous society. We have to be cautious, yet confident, and expect a lot of people of all kinds of attitudes. Many are on the edge today/

Has anyone questioned me? Yes, but I also know I am fooling no one. I am very open to anyone who wants to have a discussion about me.

Hassled me? Never, but I am also smart about where I go, but have been to hundreds of different places.

Threatened me? No.

Allie,
I'm the original post. Love your spirit
Thanks. I am so there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jodi

I then told him that I was more man than he will ever be and I was more woman than he would ever get.

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I assume it wasn't a gay bar since you quoted a Broadway musical and he was confused (Rent, Angel's funeral)


To answer the OP. Yes I have been. Usually it is a younger person. The worst was in Oakland CA for my pre-op exam. A young woman, late teens at best, called out "Excuse me...are you a man or a woman?" I said "Yes". She asked again. I told her I was a woman. She answered in a crude way that she would still sleep with me. This was minutes after I had passed 3 people 2 women one jerk. The women smiled and walked by. The dipstick said "Have a good evening SIR" Also had two young couples earlier loudly voice their feelings on me. All this in an area Oakland likes to brag about being the tourist part of the bay. Maybe I was having a bad day

Lori, and others along this thread;

When I read your story and others like it, I'm disappointed to find some suspicions true. Sad, and you handled it with grace and dignity, as have the many Sisters (below) who related similar narratives. Sorry you had to endure that.
Now for my mea culpa.
As a lad I was literally forced into rough play, sports. My parents knew I was a sissy. Looking back, they did all they could to suppress that natural state. I ended up hanging with the "jock crowd" much of the time; though I loved the arts, music and science. This was the mid-late 60s, so you can imagine the rough times GG's endured in terms of vulgarity, sexual assault, naming/shaming, etc. That was the same social crowd that called 'effeminate' boys the F-Word; much in fashion then to describe nearly any male defect.

I can't say I ever said anything ugly to girls or ever engaged in unwanted touching. Wasn't brought up to be that impolite. And the same for insults thrown at the "girly" boys and sissys, of whom I secretly was. BUT.... I stood by, using the pack as cover lest I reveal my own feminine side, and I said nothing. I let it go, acting like it was the thing to do.

I wish I'd had the moral courage the time to speak up, and stop the insults. I am sorry; sorry that people who are born to this - whatever THIS is for you - had to endure a life growing up with the cat calls and insults to your humanity. I'm sorry that by going along with the crowd, I was violating my own spirit.

I see so many beautiful faces and people on this forum. Those who were born near the male/female genetic margins, who grew up androgynous, my heart goes out to you for the anguish and bullying you likely endured. My attitudes changed greatly once I had a family and daughters; and I knew better than to be a fool. I also empathized with the very real lives of girls in ways I never understood before, and it informed my senses as to what it meant to be a woman; to have a connected female spirit within.

I tell you with all my heart, you are all beautiful and you're blessed.

Lori, and others who apparently seek to live their life full time as a woman, I not only get it. I applaud you. It takes guts, as you've described. I continue to marvel at the kind help and sound advice I have received via this forum. Thanks.

I was approached by a man while I was perusing the womens rack in a thrift store. He told me I'd never fit into to that. I looked him in the eye and said "I know, but a girl can look". He quickly walked away.